438 réponses à ce sujet

[Hurbster]

I don't want to have to side with anyone if I don't want to.

[Asdrubael Vect]

MisterJB wrote...

You want to take all that they worked for away from them because that was elven land 800 years ago. And what about those who refuse to go? They will have to be forced which means beatings, killings, rapes. Little elven boys and girls were killed in the Denerim riots and little human boys and girls will be killed if you try to make an elven-only state out of the Dales.

That is what you're advocating. You can see a bright future for elves in their homeland but only if it's built on the blood of innocents.
If the elves have enough military strenght and political pull to conquer and mantain the Dales, surely there are other alternatives.

1)yes, who cares about some of the poor Orlais farmers who know that they lived on Elven lands and not want to leave from land those to whom it belongs

2)yes, force them to leave if they need....if they try too resist so mindcontroll them to leave if not harm them 

3)its time to pay, "you may go away from our lands as friend or you become enemy and invader"

4)humans barbarians made their bright future on elven blood and they stole and conquer everything from them 2000 years ago. and 800 years bedore, elven people help Andraste armys and what they get  from her worchipers for their kind later?..only more opressing...so it's time for Orlais to pay for their crimes agains elven people and Orlais people have made this peaceably and leave from elven lands or they would be punished with their blood

4)yes, Orlais need to leave from elven lands and never come back before they are allowed to be there

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 27 avril 2013 - 07:55 .

[Senya]

Yes, visit the crimes of the ancestors onto the descendants, why don't you? You must agree with the Dwarves on the Casteless.

[Stella-Arc]

If there is an opportunity to side with the elves, I would not hesitate to join them.

[-TC1989-]

Hurbster wrote...

I don't want to have to side with anyone if I don't want to.

Yep, I always think there should be an option to be the neutral party. I know a lot of people say taking that route ruins the climax of your involvement from picking the side you believe in, but who cares if you don't? In DA2 I didn't necessarily have a side I was die-hard for, but they forced me to pick a side, so I went with the Templars. I didn't like the fact that with taking the Templars side, meant my Hawke all of a sudden was pretty much okay wiping the mages out. Personally I don't trust mages, but that doesn't mean I want them all dead, and there should be a way to meet in the middle. I'm not saying either that choosing the middle should mean everyone comes together, and we all live in harmony, but it's about choice. Forcing me to pick a side feels like I'm losing control of my character, and I just don't like that. Even if it might take a small bit away from the impact of the story, I want to choose my own path, and I don't want to be labeled a Templar lover if I was forced to choose between the two.

[Asdrubael Vect]

almostinsane99 wrote...

Yes, visit the crimes of the ancestors onto the descendants, why don't you? You must agree with the Dwarves on the Casteless.

1)it is too many crimes and they not stop to do that and still opress elven people
2)you know that the Casteless is not the same thing and even Castless kids can very esily become a smith/warrior/noble of Dwarven society(and family of Castless kid would lived in non-castless house) and Castless always can become a member of Dead Legion or just leave Orzammar

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 27 avril 2013 - 08:12 .

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

I'd like the choice to side with myself, everyone else can buggar off.

[Senya]

Dark Korsar wrote...

almostinsane99 wrote...

Yes, visit the crimes of the ancestors onto the descendants, why don't you? You must agree with the Dwarves on the Casteless.

1)it is too many crimes and they not stop to do that and still opress elven people
2)you know that the Casteless is not the same thing and even Castless kids can very esily become a noble of Dwarven society or Castless may just leave Orzammar

The peasantry is just living their own lives. They do not control the system, they're just born into it. This is why I hate collectivism and collective guilt: no judgment on an individual basis.

[In Exile]

Dark Korsar wrote...

almostinsane99 wrote...

Yes, visit the crimes of the ancestors onto the descendants, why don't you? You must agree with the Dwarves on the Casteless.

1)it is too many crimes and they not stop to do that and still opress elven people
2)you know that the Casteless is not the same thing and even Castless kids can very esily become a noble of Dwarven society(and family of Castless kid would lived in Noble house) and Castless always can become a member of Dead Legion or just leave Orzammar

... Did you just defend the treatment of the castless?

Modifié par In Exile, 27 avril 2013 - 08:11 .

[Hurbster]

-TC1989- wrote...

Hurbster wrote...

I don't want to have to side with anyone if I don't want to.

Yep, I always think there should be an option to be the neutral party. I know a lot of people say taking that route ruins the climax of your involvement from picking the side you believe in, but who cares if you don't? In DA2 I didn't necessarily have a side I was die-hard for, but they forced me to pick a side, so I went with the Templars. I didn't like the fact that with taking the Templars side, meant my Hawke all of a sudden was pretty much okay wiping the mages out. Personally I don't trust mages, but that doesn't mean I want them all dead, and there should be a way to meet in the middle. I'm not saying either that choosing the middle should mean everyone comes together, and we all live in harmony, but it's about choice. Forcing me to pick a side feels like I'm losing control of my character, and I just don't like that. Even if it might take a small bit away from the impact of the story, I want to choose my own path, and I don't want to be labeled a Templar lover if I was forced to choose between the two.

I hate to bring up the first Witcher game but it did the neutral option so well. Made the endgame twice as hard but totally worth it to act....well like a Witcher.

[Asdrubael Vect]

In Exile wrote...

Dark Korsar wrote...

almostinsane99 wrote...

Yes, visit the crimes of the ancestors onto the descendants, why don't you? You must agree with the Dwarves on the Casteless.

1)it is too many crimes and they not stop to do that and still opress elven people
2)you know that the Casteless is not the same thing and even Castless kids can very esily become a noble of Dwarven society(and family of Castless kid would lived in Noble house) and Castless always can become a member of Dead Legion or just leave Orzammar

... Did you just defend the treatment of the castless?

I do not blame Сastless system it is not good and it's not a really bad....it's just necessary

life of Dwarven race is very and very difficult in Orzammar and Deep Roads and Castless in many cases is not a bad system

and Castless always have a many choices to not be Castless

and nobody becomes a castless for nothing

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 27 avril 2013 - 08:21 .

[In Exile]

Dark Korsar wrote...
life of Dwarven race is very and very difficult in Orzammar and Deep Roads and Castless in many cases is not a bad system

and Castless always have a many choices to not be Castless

I'm not even going to try and understand this moral compass.

[Senya]

...

Are you speaking of the Casteless after Bhelen's reforms? Beacuse in the Dwarf Commoner Origin, you have no choice but to be a criminal or survive. The only thing that allowed you any mobility was Duncan recruiting you.

Otherwise, Casteless only escape if they bear children with someone from a different caste and the baby is the same sex of the non-casteless parent.

There is also the Legion of the Dead. Certain death and all that.

[Asdrubael Vect]

almostinsane99 wrote...

Dark Korsar wrote...

almostinsane99 wrote...

Yes, visit the crimes of the ancestors onto the descendants, why don't you? You must agree with the Dwarves on the Casteless.

1)it is too many crimes and they not stop to do that and still opress elven people
2)you know that the Casteless is not the same thing and even Castless kids can very esily become a noble of Dwarven society or Castless may just leave Orzammar

The peasantry is just living their own lives. They do not control the system, they're just born into it. This is why I hate collectivism and collective guilt: no judgment on an individual basis.

everyone just born is system and just living their own lives. 

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 27 avril 2013 - 08:27 .

[Senya]

Indeed. Judge everyone by the system we're living in, then there will be no population problem.

[-TC1989-]

Hurbster wrote...

-TC1989- wrote...

Hurbster wrote...

I don't want to have to side with anyone if I don't want to.

Yep, I always think there should be an option to be the neutral party. I know a lot of people say taking that route ruins the climax of your involvement from picking the side you believe in, but who cares if you don't? In DA2 I didn't necessarily have a side I was die-hard for, but they forced me to pick a side, so I went with the Templars. I didn't like the fact that with taking the Templars side, meant my Hawke all of a sudden was pretty much okay wiping the mages out. Personally I don't trust mages, but that doesn't mean I want them all dead, and there should be a way to meet in the middle. I'm not saying either that choosing the middle should mean everyone comes together, and we all live in harmony, but it's about choice. Forcing me to pick a side feels like I'm losing control of my character, and I just don't like that. Even if it might take a small bit away from the impact of the story, I want to choose my own path, and I don't want to be labeled a Templar lover if I was forced to choose between the two.

 Made the endgame twice as hard but totally worth it to act....well like a Witcher.

Yeah even if it makes the game more difficult, I'd be more than fine with it. At least the game would be letting you live with your decision, and the consequences that come with it. In my opinion, it just makes the game more personal to me. The option to basically tell everyone to go to hell is just cool to me, and makes the protagonist more my character.

[Asdrubael Vect]

almostinsane99 wrote...

Indeed. Judge everyone by the system we're living in, then there will be no population problem.

so i will not judge mages to destroing Templar Order with Chantry, and i will not judge Elven people to killing Orlais people on Elven lands

this is just their system

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 27 avril 2013 - 08:37 .

[Senya]

A rebellion is not a system. You can actively shape what actions it takes and join or leave it at will according to whether you agree with it or not. Peasants living on the family farm do not have a voice in politics.

[MisterJB]

Dark Korsar wrote...
I do not blame Сastless system it is not good and it's not a really bad....it's just necessary

life of Dwarven race is very and very difficult in Orzammar and Deep Roads and Castless in many cases is not a bad system

and Castless always have a many choices to not be Castless

and nobody becomes a castless for nothing

What? What? What?
First of all, Casteless become so by birth because of something their ancestors did which anyone can tell it's completely ridiculous. So yes, many Casteless became so for nothing.
And there is nothing even remotelly necessary about the whole thing. In fact, it's brought up multiple times by diverse people that forbidding an entire sect of your population from wielding weapons when you are about to go extinct because of attacks perpretated by a limitless enemy is the most asinine thing anyone could do in the history of everything.

[Asdrubael Vect]

Castless system force criminals and their descendants to leave Orzammar or fight agains Darkspawns or they may live and be a parents for kids of Dwarves from other Castes or do something important for Orzammar society

Orzammar not have much space for all and Dwarves still have their endless war against Darkspawns

Catless system is Dwarven punishment for crimes agains Orzammar society

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 27 avril 2013 - 09:03 .

[Senya]

And yet you condemn the Circle system and any arguments for it...

[MisterJB]

Hun...no. The Casteless system forces a portion of the population to do nothing to contribute to society but sit in a squalor filled corner of the city plotting revenge against their opressors.
Members of other Castes are the ones who can be condemned to die in the Deep Roads.
Yes, there is a war against the Darkspawn which means the Casteless should be given weapons and incentives to figth them. Not made to starve or turn to crime.

[Asdrubael Vect]

ohh and casteles really "not have any weapons" against Darkspawns and Carta is "peasefull organisation of hundreds Castless non-criminals with non-weapons"

Casteles have enough of their own weapons and they really can forge them themselfs

and caste of miners need to mine metals for caste of blacksmiths who need to forge good weapons and armors for caste of warriors and have money and influense to exist

their сaste society is fully interconnected

no one would give criminals a good free weapons and armor ...especially knowing that they already have some weapons and can forge them themselfs or they may go to Dead Legion and get it for free

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 27 avril 2013 - 09:22 .

[LobselVith8]

In Exile wrote...

Oh, I'm completely done with the thread and people's apparently IRL support for racism and forced migrations.

In the realm of Dragon Age, things haven't changed for the elves for over a millennia. That hasn't changed despite elves fighting alongside humans against the Imperium any more than the participation of the Circles during all the Blights or the New Exalted Marches has changed opinion on mages. If you have an alternative to having the elves reclaim the kingdom of the Dales from the Orlesian Empire, I would be interested to hear it.

Even the participation of the Dalish during the Fifth Blight, and the Hero of Ferelden being a Dalish Warden, doesn't stop the racism towards the Dalish clans after a short period of time, or the inferred massacre of the Dalish who migrate to the Hinterlands.

In Exile wrote...

I just hate it when people don't even want to own up to their own offensive views. 

I'm not interested in waiting another millennia for humans to stop being racist and xenophobic towards the Alienage elves and the People.

[MisterJB]

"You humans are all racist."

/thread.