LobselVith8 wrote...
Ausstig wrote...
1. So that makes it ok for the evles to stand there and watch the darkspawn destory a human village? Also the elves are not some small city state, they were a large nation and Orlais was in no shape for a war. As the actual war showed. If humans had let an elven city die during the blight becuas the VChantry told them to stay away for elve, people would call them worse the Hitler, but for the elves, thats fine.
1. You're blaming the elven army for not helping an enemy that was giving them trouble since Emperor Drakon was alive? Kordillus Drakon created the Orlesian Empire by invading his neighbors as King (and imposing his religion on the people under his rule), and he would've invaded the Free Marches, except he was having difficulties with the Dales.
Orlais is an imperalistic empire with a leadership that has consistently sought to conquer others. Orlais used the threat of the darkspawn to conquer Nevarra after the Third Blight, which is likely why Loghain was hesitant about having Orlesian soldiers on Ferelden soil to "help" them deal with the Fifth Blight (aside from their conquest and occupation of Ferelden for over a century). And the Chantry of Andraste - created by Drakon - publicly supported the invasion of Ferelden, which is why Maric and Loghain discussed what they were going to do about the local Chantry in Ferelden. There is a symbiotic relationship between Orlais and the Chantry.
Ausstig wrote...
2/3 But the elves let a human city die for religous reasons! They also closed their boarders for religious reasons. Their religion told them if they kept away from humans they would be imortial. The Chanty says that if every one sings the chant they the world will be saved. Why is it ok for the elve to hurt people because their reilgion says so but no the humans?
2. You seem to be conflating religion with history in your paragraph. The elves of the Dales followed the Creators; the elves kept out humans from their sovereign nation because they wanted to regain their immortality and their culture, since their history (of the ancient kingdom of Arlathan) informed them that the ancient elves lost their immortality and their longevity because of contact with humans, "the quicklings".
According to elven lore, the ancient elves "felt no need to rush when life was endless. They worshiped their gods for months at a time. Decisions came after decades of debate, and an introduction could last for years. From time to time, our ancestors would drift into centuries-long slumber, but this was not death, for we know they wandered the Fade in dreams."
Further in their lore, it describes their first contact with the immigrating humans: "When they first met the elves, the humans were brash and warlike, quick to anger and quicker to fight, with no patience for the unhurried pace of elven diplomacy.
"But the humans brought worse things than war with them. Our ancestors proved susceptible to human diseases, and for the first time in history, elves died of natural causes. What's more, those elves who spent time bartering and negotiating with humans found themselves aging, tainted by the humans' brash and impatient lives. Many believed that the ancient gods had judged them unworthy of their long lives and cast them down among the quicklings."
Ausstig wrote...
Why did the elve keep pushing towards Val Royeaux? Why not stop at the heart land if all they wanted was a buffer?
3. Considering that Orlais was giving the elves trouble since the empire's inception, the Chantry was said to have sent templars into force conversion, and Orlais is focused on conquering their neighbors, then I can imagine a few reasons why the elves would want to put their enemy out of commission.
Ausstig wrote...
I think they wanted to wipe out Orlais and since they religion told them to have no contact with humans...... well I think the elves may have planed some 'demogrpahic shifts' if you catch my meaning.
4. The elven religion doesn't tell the elves to have no contact with humans. If that was the case, the Dalish never would have signed a treaty with the Grey Wardens. Marethari never would have spoken to Hawke. Merrill wouldn't interact with her human companions. You're confusing how the Dalish have been informed by their history, and their religion in following the Creators.
Ausstig wrote...
Also maybe the reason that Dalish elves live longer then city elves is beacuse they don't live in a freaken slum.
5. I don't believe that was the developer's intent in pointing out how the Dalish live longer than the Alienage elves, away from human contact (although the developer made a point to say the Dalish don't live as long as the Tolkien elves).
Ausstig wrote...
The point I was trying to make was that people here give the elves the befit of the doubt but condem humans if they act in the same way. It's an annoying double standard.
6. Because you're comparing an imperalistic empire that conquers other nations with a kingdom of elves who wanted to be left alone after centuries of slavery by humans. For some people, there's a stark difference between the two. It's pretty much the reason why I would prefer to aid the downtrodden elves in reclaiming their homeland, as opposed to two politicians who want to rule the Orlesian Empire.
7. Elves have lost so much, so I would like the opportunity to change that. Arlathan elves were enslaved by Tevinter, and had their homeland destroyed. According to the historical account of the Dalish, the elves of the Dales had templars invade their homeland when they refused to convert to the Andrastian Chantry, and the elves retaliated, only to lose everything, with the Chantry outlawing the elven religion and forcing the elves who submitted to them to convert to the Chantry. It's not too difficult to understand why some elves immediately distrust humans. Even King Alistair admits to Keeper Marethari: "And while my people cannot truly make up for what we have done to yours, I was hoping to start."
1. Where did you get that from? Te Second Blight started 8 years after Emperor Drakon 1 was crowned and 5 afer the Chantry established. I assume he spent that time forging together the Human city states rather then attacking a large Elven kingdom.
Aslo the Dales made no effort at all to help fight the blight. If Tivinter and Orlais can put aside their differences then why didn't the elves? Last time I cheacked Darkspawn killed elves as well. Maybe if the Dales had saved that city instead of watching it burn, they could have created some good will.
2. So there history says 'no humnas'? Either way it was part of their culture, just as spreading the chant is part of human culture. Why is it ok for one not the other?
3. So you admite that the Elves wanted to do more then just protect themselves. What was their end game? Were they going to sack all of Orlais? Conqure it? Ethnic cleansing? Bit hard to belive that these people were 'just defending themselves' from preachers with body gaurds. I think the Elves started that war and their contuined actions in said war, put to and including the fact that they kept pushing, prove it. Orlais wanted trade in order to rebuild after the blight, in which the Elves left them out in the cold, it was not preparded for a war, nor do Ithink it wanted one.
5. I think the devs would leave it ambigious, like they did with the Ashes; was it the power of the Maker or the lyrium in walls? Same here; is it the fact they have less contact with Humans, or that live with fresh food, clean water, less diseases and generaly better stnadards of health and living?
6. Nations expand it's what they do. That's the reason why the darkspawn were defeated, the Wardens need armies and Orlais has helped push back the 2nd and 3rd Blights. How many did the Dales help push back? None, they were netural and unhelpful during the second Blight.
7. The Elves have suffered that's true but they have no one to blame but their own ancestors. First they closed their boarders to tivinter with no explanation, what would you think if a powerful nation (that your own threated by existing) did that? The lost and the Tivinter took everything after a long war. Then they get a new homelnd, with help from the humans, and cut themselves off from the outside world. They don't help during the 90 year long Blight, they watched a city burn. They didn't even want to trade with the nations around them. They kick out Chantry preachers and then invade and push into Orlais, all the way towards Val Royeaux. Then the Chanty, fearful of the army of people who started the war becuase they don't like Humans or their God, ask for help. The Dales get stomped and the chantry stops the nations from killing or enslaving them and even said that the nations HAVE to shelter them.
Also Alister is a childish fool when it comes to politics. So I don't care what his opinion is cause the fact that the Elves lose their boon shows that they don't learn.
Isolationists are always their own worset enemy. If you feel sorry for them fine, but if try to pretend that the rest of the world does not exist then do't be supirsed when it bits you in the back.
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