438 réponses à ce sujet

[Rawgrim]

andy69156915 wrote...

The Midi-chlorian is not an explanation of the force like a lot of people believe. It's merely the cells that allows one to sense and manipulate the force. The force would exists regardless of the Midi-chlorians, just as light exists without eyeballs to detect it, and sound waves exist without ears.

Quite so.

[Asdrubael Vect]

1)Zatrian was a adult Keeper of even a MANY CENTURIES BEFORE 5 Blight(no less than 400 years) and use blood magic(he use only his own blood), and he's still young and strong and not wrinkled and weak old man

2)Aventus is a 200 years old(through powers of darkspawn blood) Grey Warden blood mage, and he is use for that a lot sacrifices of  a Grey Wardens and other peoples, and according to his records, he pretty soon can not resisting to The Call-he is dying, slowly grows dull and turns into darkspawn

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 05 avril 2013 - 08:27 .

[The Hierophant]

andy69156915 wrote...

The Midi-chlorian is not an explanation of the force like a lot of people believe. It's merely the cells that allows one to sense and manipulate the force. The force would exists regardless of the Midi-chlorians, just as light exists without eyeballs to detect it, and sound waves exist without ears.

I was mostly talking about the fan reaction as countless fan theories of the past speculated that anyone could utilize it with the proper training, based on the info they were given at the time. IIRC there was no clues or indication of the existance of Midi-clorians during the 20 years between the release of A New Hope and The Phantom Menace making it seem like the reveal came completely out of left field.

Modifié par The Hierophant, 05 avril 2013 - 08:25 .

[LobselVith8]

andy69156915 wrote...

" the reasons Japanese citizens on average live longer lives than Americans"

Really? I was told by a Japanese friend that they used to live really long lives, but because of close proximity to Americans after we nuked them in WW2 their lifespans were greatly reduced, and that them not getting many American tourists since then is why their lifespans have been increasing again. You mean he wasn't telling the truth?! I trusted him!

Do you think that mocking people is going to change anyone's mind? I genuinely don't see the point of this type of behavior. Xil addressed the elven lore on their lost immortality as a possibility - which it is in the context of Dragon Age - and provided one possibility on the fly to explain how the ancient elves could have lost their immortality because of human contact. Since there's no evidence to disprove the elven lore, it remains a possibility, where fans can either agree or disagree with what the People believe.

Thedas Humans and elves are said not to live as long as modern humans. You seem to be refuting why someone would disagree with you with little knowledge about what the developers have actually said about the Dalish and the dichotomy between their longer lives in comparison to that of humans and Alienage elves. Having your own opinion is fine, but mocking people when you seem uninformed about what the developers have said on the issue simply makes your comments come across as odd.

Now then, since this current discussion isn't going anywhere, perhaps we can get back to this original topic of this thread.

I find the lore of the People to be very fascinating. Their lore on Arlathan, their immortality, the drastic shift in how they changed when they became mortal, the loss of the Dales, and the struggle of the People to reclaim what was lost genuinely interest me. I wish we could play as a Dalish elf in the next Dragon Age game, because I think that it would be cool to see the world of Thedas through the POV of a Dalish elf. Tevinter, Orlais, occupied Dales, the Alienages, the different human societies. Unfortunately, that won't be a possibility.

With the reports of an elven rebellion in occupied Dales, I would like to side with the elves. Work with them in an attempt to reclaim their homeland. See the difficulties with Andrastian elves working with Dalish elves, and how different their goals could be for an emancipated nation of free elves.

[andy6915]

Then why would strong force potential be hereditary, like the case of Luke to Darth Vader? I'd say the hints were there, even if they weren't apparent at the time.

EDIT:

Getting off topic here. Respond to this and let that be the final post about the force. This thread doesn't need locked because it turned into a Star Wrs discussion.

Modifié par andy69156915, 05 avril 2013 - 08:28 .

[Asdrubael Vect]

"how the ancient elves could have lost their immortality because of human contact" crossbreeding as i know, and they lost more in Encient Tevinter slavery

but they are likely to live long and had their immortal soul(mage spirit/will) that could go into the Fade and back again

that is, they were not immortal in the body but only in they spirit/will which could come back from the Fade

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 05 avril 2013 - 08:38 .

[andy6915]

Breeding with humans causing the offspring to not be pure elf which in turn causes them to become mortal after generations of it?... Quite possible. That's another good explanation for how it could be true that humans are at fault. Only problem is, why didn't the offspring be born as 100% human like they do in the current DA modern day?

[The Hierophant]

andy69156915 wrote...

Then why would strong force potential be hereditary, like the case of Luke to Darth Vader? I'd say the hints were there, even if they weren't apparent at the time.

EDIT:

Getting off topic here. Respond to this and let that be the final post about the force. This thread doesn't need locked because it turned into a Star Wars discussion.

<shrug> I didn't pick up on that back in the day (circa 92'-98') as i only thought of Luke as a prodigy not the second coming of Force Jesus.

On topic - @LobselVith8 remember that there can potentially be a combination of many factors for the ancient elves' longer lifespans. I wouldn't be surprised if they used a forgotten Blood Magic ritual to expand their lives in combination with their diet, environment and lifestyles.
 

Modifié par The Hierophant, 05 avril 2013 - 08:45 .

[Asdrubael Vect]

andy69156915 wrote...
Only problem is, why didn't the offspring be born as 100% human like they do in the current DA modern day?

first born only elves but with time and generations, they began to lose their magic powers and with them their loses their long life(and immortal spirits/will who can back from fade)....slavery only made ​​things worse

it is now, from the union of  the modern elf("half-elf" compared with the old) and human only born even more half-elf....but if the half-elf will breed with the elf, an new elf will born

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 05 avril 2013 - 08:57 .

[LobselVith8]

The Hierophant wrote...

On topic - @LobselVith8 remember that there can potentially be a combination of many factors for the ancient elves' longer lifespans. I wouldn't be surprised if they used a forgotten Blood Magic ritual to expand their lives in combination with their diet, environment and lifestyles. 

You seem to be confusing my point that it's a possibility with some declaration that it's an indisputable fact, which I haven't said. Even Xil addressed it as a possibility. The player is invited to form opinions on many issues: mages and templars, the use of blood magic, the casteless, and many other matters.

Xil's point was that it's possible that the ancient elves might have lost their immortality because of their contact with humans. I don't see what's so controversial about being open to the possibility that their lore has some truth to it. It's no different than being open to the possibility of the Creators being real. For people who enjoy the elves and the Dalish, they might be willing to have an open mind on the matter.

I'm also not certain why you dissed her idea when she simply came up with a spur of the moment thought about how it might come to pass.

[In Exile]

LobselVith8 wrote...
You seem to be confusing my point that it's a possibility with some declaration that it's an indisputable fact, which I haven't said. Even Xil addressed it as a possibility.  

No, that's not what everyone here is objecting to. It is logically possible that elves lost their immortality because of contact with humans, but there's no evidence for it, meaning there are no good reasons to believe it.

That something can't be disproven conclusively doesn't mean that it's (i) likely (ii) reasonable to believe (iii) supported by the preponderance of evidence. 

An example: it is possible that an ominpotent hermaphroditic space lizard created the universe to prove to a buddy that its really funny to watch good things happen to bad people. You can disprove it. But as a cosmological theory, this is stupid, and there are no good reasons to believe it. 

Elven lore on immortality isn't as stupid as the hypothetical I concocted, but it has no evidence supporting it. Which means, other than "I like Elves and want their lore to be true" there are no good reasons to believe it. 

And it's totally fine to believe it because you like elves. But then it's not cool to use it as a reason to justify racial segregation or elven aggression. Because then your actual justification for both is "I like elves". And that's just not a good moral reason. 

Xil's point was that it's possible that the ancient elves might have lost their immortality because of their contact with humans. I don't see what's so controversial about being open to the possibility that their lore has some truth to it.  

There's a difference between (a) "I don't deny that it's possible that elven lore is true" and ( "Elven segregation and hostility toward outside is morally justified because of lore that has no evidence to support it". 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Putting aside this general fail of logic, it occurs to me: the whole talk about the Elven immortality is really freaky because of how much its undertones are about racial superiority. 
 
I mean, we're talking about the Elves carving out a racially pure state and keeping outsiders away to preserve their racial purity. The narrative is literally that they are "contaminated" by contacted with humans. 

This isn't a comment on Xil or Lob, btw - it's a comment on the lore. It hasn't occured to me just how creepy the undertones to Elven lore actually are until just now. 

Modifié par In Exile, 05 avril 2013 - 09:25 .

[Asdrubael Vect]

if somebode really wants to bring back "Immortal elf" they need just

1)no human and Chantry in miles of elven settlement

2)elf mage mans and elf mage womans who have elf mage parents(be even better if it would be dalish mages)

3)they breed and give birth to to mage childrens

4)they grow up and repeat the process

4)and they childrens repeat the process

5)PROFIT, the new generation of immortal elf magekind is born...teach them Blood, Arcane, Battle, Keeper Magic(or more), give them drink blood of dragon....and this is a good time to revenge for Arlatan and Dales:devil:

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 05 avril 2013 - 09:49 .

[MisterJB]

Xilizhra wrote...
Ah, yes, which is why the Chantry is against bloodline-based systems of rulership,

Not a single position within the Chantry's hierarchy is passed through blood. If your sole evidence for your claim of the Chantry supporting feudalism is the fact that it exists in a feudalist society then; by such a logic; we could say that the casteless support the Caste system.

the subjugation of conquered races,

It was the Chantry who ordered Andrastian realms to shelter elven refuges where they could have just watched as they were wiped out. Clearly, it is not so black and white.

[Xilizhra]

I mean, we're talking about the Elves carving out a racially pure state and keeping outsiders away to preserve their racial purity. The narrative is literally that they are "contaminated" by contacted with humans.

Well, even without the Quickening, that's sort of true, in that elves breeding with humans will ultimately lead to the elves' extinction.

Not a single position within the Chantry's hierarchy is passed through
blood. If your sole evidence for your claim of the Chantry supporting
feudalism is the fact that it exists in a feudalist society then; by
such a logic; we could say that the casteless support the Caste system.

So you're saying the Chantry is far too weak and despised to ever have a chance to lobby for political reform, being the explicit whipping boys/girls for the very institution they'd want to reform?

It was the Chantry who ordered Andrastian realms to shelter elven
refuges where they could have just watched as they were wiped out.
Clearly, it is not so black and white.

The Chantry wants to own peoples' souls; it wouldn't count as a proper victory without subjugated survivors.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 06 avril 2013 - 04:26 .

[Ausstig]

Xilizhra wrote...

I mean, we're talking about the Elves carving out a racially pure state and keeping outsiders away to preserve their racial purity. The narrative is literally that they are "contaminated" by contacted with humans.

Well, even without the Quickening, that's sort of true, in that elves breeding with humans will ultimately lead to the elves' extinction.

Not a single position within the Chantry's hierarchy is passed through
blood. If your sole evidence for your claim of the Chantry supporting
feudalism is the fact that it exists in a feudalist society then; by
such a logic; we could say that the casteless support the Caste system.

So you're saying the Chantry is far too weak and despised to ever have a chance to lobby for political reform, being the explicit whipping boys/girls for the very institution they'd want to reform?

It was the Chantry who ordered Andrastian realms to shelter elven
refuges where they could have just watched as they were wiped out.
Clearly, it is not so black and white.

The Chantry wants to own peoples' souls; it wouldn't count as a proper victory without subjugated survivors.

So you think eugenics and 'keeping races pure' is something other then crap? Also you can talk and trade with humans with out screwing them.


Also Thedas doesn't have democracy in it's history. It has the feudalism or a mageorcy. Since it's matra is "Magic is to serve man, not to rule him". They are not too keen on that.

Or they could have just killed them and made a 'raicaly pure state'. Like the elves want to.

[LobselVith8]

Ausstig wrote...

So you think eugenics and 'keeping races pure' is something other then crap?

I'd wager Xil is against elven extinction.

Ausstig wrote...

Also you can talk and trade with humans with out screwing them.

Unless they want to impose their religious beliefs on you and rule over you, to the point of invading your nation when your people refuse to convert.

Ausstig wrote...

Also Thedas doesn't have democracy in it's history. It has the feudalism or a mageorcy. Since it's matra is "Magic is to serve man, not to rule him". They are not too keen on that.

Which ignores Xil's point that the Chantry has authority and power, but never uses it to change how elves are perceived, or the inequality the Alienage elves face.

Ausstig wrote...

Or they could have just killed them and made a 'raicaly pure state'. Like the elves want to.

You're ignoring Xil's point - again - regarding how the Chantry wants to spread the Chant to the four corners of the world. Look at Brother Burkel's attempts in Orzammar.

Also, the elves wanted to restore their culture and their immortality after earning their homeland, while you consistently defend a neighbor that was invading every nation around them at the time, and continued to conquer other nations centuries later. You'll have to excuse those of us who think that the elves deserved to right to worship the Creators without the Chantry trying to force their religion on the elven people.

[Xilizhra]

Which ignores Xil's point that the Chantry has authority and power, but never uses it to change how elves are perceived, or the inequality the Alienage elves face.

Also that it never uses it to change the inequality that human commoners face, for that matter.

[TK514]

Xilizhra wrote...

Which ignores Xil's point that the Chantry has authority and power, but never uses it to change how elves are perceived, or the inequality the Alienage elves face.

Also that it never uses it to change the inequality that human commoners face, for that matter.

that's not really The Chantry's purpose, however.  And allowing the Elves to go about their business worshipping whatever is directly counter to the Chantry's purpose.

Theologically, the Chantry doesn't care how bad your life sucks, as long as you're singing the Chant, because the moment everyone on Thedas is doing it, the Maker will come back and it will be paradise for everyone.  Previous sucking will be irrelevant.  Their position is that if you aren't singing the Chant, and are instead pissing around with your made up dirt gods or whatever, then you are intentionally screwing it up for everyone else and need to be shown the error of your ways, no matter the cost.  And you'll thank them for it later.  There is zero room for religious tolerance in the dogma of the Chantry, and no matter what they have to do to get you in line, ultimately they believe they are doing you a favor.  The ends most certainly justify the means.

[Xilizhra]

that's not really The Chantry's purpose, however. And allowing the Elves to go about their business worshipping whatever is directly counter to the Chantry's purpose.

Agreed, which is why I detest the Chantry.

[TK514]

Xilizhra wrote...

that's not really The Chantry's purpose, however. And allowing the Elves to go about their business worshipping whatever is directly counter to the Chantry's purpose.

Agreed, which is why I detest the Chantry.

well,they're certainly not the first religion to take the position that it's their job to save others from heathen ways so individuals can go on to paradise.  They just add the wrinkle that paradise can't happen until everyone believes, which, frankly, makes me surprised that they aren't considerably more militant.

[Mantaal]

I think they will use the great DA2 System on that. Yes you can side with he Elves.. you can kill the Templars with them and kill the Elves after that for no Reason..
If you side with the Templars you can kill the Elves and after that the Templars too without a reason.. isnt that awesome?

[Asdrubael Vect]

 

TinuHawke wrote...
"One day the magic will come back. All of it. Everyone will be just like they were. The shadows will part, and the skies will open wide." - Sandal
I believe all elves will be able to use magic again. I doubt humans will be strong enough to fight so many mages with a purpose. 

hmm for that i need...

The first phase....

1)my warden, Elf mage(arcane/blood/battle mage, keeper....he's drink Aventus Potion-"Power of Blood") who returns from Eluvian

2)Red-Pure Lyrium,  blood of High Dragon...blood of 3-5-10 Templars

3)my Tevinter friend Danarius, and his knowledge of how to make Lyrium Vassalin.....and help of Zatrian, Aventus, Architect(optional) and may be Morrigan

4)make a "Special Dragon/Templar Blood Pure Lyrium Vassalin" for my Elf mage, after drink Dragon Blood(become Reaver).....and take a special ritual bath of the remaining blood

The second phase....

1)buy/find the best metals(Volcanic Aurum/White Steel/Dragon bone/Star metal),leather(High Dragon Hide), lirium..
.. find the best smiths of Dalish,Tevinter, Dwarven, Tal-vasgot and force them(gold or mind control) to forge the best battlemage armor and staff as they can....after entchant them with Paragon Weapon/Armor Runes

2)go at night to the nearest Templar fortress(or many of them) and force(blood magic ritual of mass mind control) them to volunteer(kill the others, who would not) to go into Deep Roads....and with help of my friend Branka and some smiths turn all of them into My First Metal Golems Army

3)conclude an secret agreement with the Keepers of big Dalish Clans, give them the resources and knowledge to prepare them for all posible future wars and defense....get the official status of Dalish Keeper

4)join to the Tevinter Empire as Magister.....after some agreements, deals, treacheries, minor conflicts and increases of my influence become the future Archont....makes several reforms and promotes the powerfull and loyal dynasties of  Elfs Magisters

....reforms have been undertaken
non-mages of any race should bring significant benefits to the Empire and faithfully serve her, her Magisters and most importantly its Archon, otherwise they face poverty and slavery.

all children of any race and any social status that have a magical gift must be trained in the Imperial Circle of Mages ... children with magical gift of the lower classes and slaves will be taken forever from their parents, and be raised by Imperial Circle as a faithful mages of his Empire and his Archon, and for his faithful and diligent service they will be awarded with the titles and in the future may become Magisters

by a secret agreement with Dalish Keepers, each year  many elf's children with a magical gift of the Tevinter lower classes and slaves were secretly taken and raised by Dalish clans 

The third phase....

1)declare war on Templars....enslave them all(turn survivors into golems).....or force(persuasion, bribery or mind control) them to volunteer to join and fight for the Tevinter Empire and Empire Chantry against Heretical Andrastian-Orlais Chantry and Qunari...use themas cannon fodder  in the war and turn survivors into golems.
...Mage and Templar war is over

2)declaire a military alliance with Anderfels, Ferelden and Nevarra against Orlais, and together start a war....at the end of full conquer of Orlais immediately start a blitzkrieg war against weakened Nevarra(confidential setting other countries against them)....defeat and conquer Nevarra and share some parts of Orlais with Ferelden and Anderfels....the rule of Orlais and Nevarra is over

3)declair a military alliance with Rivain, conquer  Free Marshes to Tevinter, after take control of Crowns and conquer Antiva and share it with Rivain
....the rule of Free Marshes and Antiva is over.

4) with alliance of Anderfels, Ferelden, Rivain declaire a  war against Qunari and Qun....after conquer of Seheron,  Par Vollen will be reforms that will destroy the false teaching of Qun, and Archont personally set on fire tome of Koslunin front of thousands kosinds....
....the rule of Qun in Thedas is over

5)After years of preparation Dalish Kepers unite Clans and with some reforms and deals oficially make an alliance with Tevinter Empire and together oficially start a conquest of all Thedas.
. soon they fully conquer and control the lands of weakened Ferelden and Rivain..... after a while Anderfels with a minor conflicts was fully annexed to the Empire.

6)after a while, Dalish Сlans become a part of the Empire as autonomy. Dalish non-mages had privileged status in Empire compared to other non-mages....but after a couple of decades Dalish non-mages is almost gone compared to the rest 

The fourth phase
.....Archont will spend religious reforms...destroy remains of Chantry and faith in Maker,  replace it with the worship of the Old Gods and Ancient Elven Pantheon, after some years replace it with  worship of Magic & Most Powerful and long-lived Mages(something, similar to a dwarf Paragons but with Mages only)

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 08 avril 2013 - 10:29 .

[Ausstig]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Ausstig wrote...

So you think eugenics and 'keeping races pure' is something other then crap?

1. I'd wager Xil is against elven extinction.

Ausstig wrote...

Also you can talk and trade with humans with out screwing them.

1.a. Unless they want to impose their religious beliefs on you and rule over you, to the point of invading your nation when your people refuse to convert.

Ausstig wrote...

Also Thedas doesn't have democracy in it's history. It has the feudalism or a mageorcy. Since it's matra is "Magic is to serve man, not to rule him". They are not too keen on that.

2. Which ignores Xil's point that the Chantry has authority and power, but never uses it to change how elves are perceived, or the inequality the Alienage elves face.

Ausstig wrote...

Or they could have just killed them and made a 'raicaly pure state'. Like the elves want to.

You're ignoring Xil's point - again - regarding how the Chantry wants to spread the Chant to the four corners of the world. Look at Brother Burkel's attempts in Orzammar.

3. Also, the elves wanted to restore their culture and their immortality after earning their homeland, while you consistently defend a neighbor that was invading every nation around them at the time, and continued to conquer other nations centuries later. You'll have to excuse those of us who think that the elves deserved to right to worship the Creators without the Chantry trying to force their religion on the elven people.

1. So is that a yes? That sounds pretty F***ed to me. Like those people who cry 'White Genocide' about immigration.

1.a They didn't even try to trade with them though. Money talks, if they had helped during the blight and traded with them after ward, there may not have been a war.

2. That wasn't about Elves. If you reaqd the post you see it was about the type of governments in Thedas.

3. So it's ok for the Elves culture to tell them what to do, but not the Human one? You also ignore the fact that the Elves started the war when they invaded the Red Crossing and kept going into the heart of Orlais. So the Elves have the right to invade other nations but not Humans? 

Brother Burkel set up a place for orphans and the poor. For the conversation with him it sounded like that is part of what they do.

If you accept that the Elven myths are true why not the Chant? Why don't you belive that if the entire world sings then it will become a pradise? 

[LobselVith8]

Ausstig wrote...

1. So is that a yes? That sounds pretty F***ed to me. Like those people who cry 'White Genocide' about immigration.

Except for the fact that everyone on this planet is human, while elves will literally become extinct if elven men and women don't procreate with one another.

Ausstig wrote...

1.a They didn't even try to trade with them though. Money talks, if they had helped during the blight and traded with them after ward, there may not have been a war.

I'm not surprised the Dales didn't trade with a neighbor that wanted to conquer them, since the Orlesian Empire was busy conquering everyone else around them.

As we know from the Ages Timeline: "1192 TE: Having conquered several neighboring city-states and forced others to submit to his overlordship, Kordillus Drakon is crowned in Val Royeaux as emperor. His ambitions to spread farther north into the Free Marches are confounded by constant pressures from the Dales to the east, so Emperor Drakon formalizes the Maker's cult into the Chantry and commands that missionaries be sent forth into the other lands."

According to the historical account by Brother Genitivi, the Orlesian Empire was created because Drakon invaded his neighbors: "There were many converts, including powerful people in the Imperium and in the city-states of what is now Orlais. Such was the power of the Maker's word that the young King Drakon undertook a series of Exalted Marches meant to unite the city-states and create an empire solely dedicated to the Maker's will. The Orlesian Empire became the seat of the Chantry's power, the Grand Cathedral in Val Royeaux the source of the movement that birthed the organized Chantry as we know it today. Drakon, by then Emperor Drakon I, created the Circle of Magi, the Order of Templars and the holy office of the Divine. Many within the Chantry revere him nearly as equal with Andraste herself."

Ausstig wrote...

2. That wasn't about Elves. If you reaqd the post you see it was about the type of governments in Thedas.

I did read your post, and you ignore Xil's point, because the Chantry of Andraste wields tremendous power among the Andrastian nations, which is why Loghain and Maric didn't dissolve the Ferelden Chantry despite the Andrastian Chantry's support for the Orlesian occupation of Fereden.

Ausstig wrote...

3. So it's ok for the Elves culture to tell them what to do, but not the Human one?

You're comparing the example of the elves of the Dales wanting to be left alone to restore their culture with the Orlesian Empire that invaded other nations and forced people to convert to the Chantry, and occupied other nations to spread their empire further and further (like their occupation of Nevarra after "aiding" them during the Third Blight).

Ausstig wrote...

You also ignore the fact that the Elves started the war when they invaded the Red Crossing and kept going into the heart of Orlais. So the Elves have the right to invade other nations but not Humans?

Actually, you're disregarding my prior point regarding how that's the Orlesian version of events. According to the Dalish version, the Chantry sent templars into the Dales when the elves refused to convert to the Andrastian Chantry and kicked out their missionaries. This is mentioned in the codex on the Dales for the Dalish Warden, while every other Warden receives the Orlesian version. The elven Warden can also condemn the Chantry for this reason, saying that the Chantry invaded the Dales because the elves refused to convert.

Ausstig wrote...

Brother Burkel set up a place for orphans and the poor. For the conversation with him it sounded like that is part of what they do.

Brother Burkel wanting to convert all of Orzammar to the Chantry of Andraste is precisely what he's set out to do, which is why my Surana Warden calls him out when he initially meets him.

Ausstig wrote...

If you accept that the Elven myths are true why not the Chant? Why don't you belive that if the entire world sings then it will become a pradise? 

I've already pointed out several times that I addressed the elven belief in their ancestors' immortality as a possibility (which is no different than Xil).