24 réponses à ce sujet

[Imnon00b5]

 Now in my time debating with people on forums or YT comments on whether or not DA:O or DA2 was a better game I have come to know obviously that DA2 has pros and cons. However since 2009 when the came had come out I had always come to the decision that Merrill is a horrible companion that really offered nothing in depth or character. She seemed to be an attempt of being a Leliana but she just ended up being completely generic that even Veleana seemed more intresting.

Now the reaons why I feel that is she never has charm throughout the story. Her awkwardness has no drive to it. Leliana was pretty shy and flustered and it was cute and funny. The Warden even dug into it a little bit. Then sometimes her dirty side appeared as Zevran would call her a "saucy minx"

yet Merrill remained awkward and in my romance with her I never felt we had any actual connection. And it wasn't because we had different views on romance like Morrigan&Warden it was just because there was no good writting behind it. 

Even then whenever we deal with her main story with the mirror she seems so off-character (from w.e character I could get from her) and it just didn't fit. I later on slaughtered her own clan (by accident) and she hardly reacted. She didn't cry she didn't even really mourn. There I felt Bioware just wasted a character slot.



Now whenever someone tells me Merrilll is good i get surprised. When I inquire why they give me the CONCEPT of why she's good. 

See they say: Merrill is a blood mage who summoned a demon to make her stronger and against the clans wishes she wishes to solve the mysteries of her clan. So even though what she does is bad it's for a good cause. The clan never sees it that way and view her as a monster. Now  its your job to either support her or go against her.  She's deep


See thats nice and it sounds...decent. But see the EXECUTION of it however was poorly implented. All of that was revealed but it was never shown correctly or shown to be epic. 

Sten for example story can be simple: The man loses a sword and he feels his honor is lost because of it. Now of course the concept of that is not so simple but even if the concept was simple the way Bioware executed his story was great and he became cool as hell. 

Merrill in the end was boring and unintresting she's just good for combat and that's a true shame. 



So thoughts? I'm open to like Merilll since I don't like practically any of the DA2 characters so... 

[Imnon00b5]

Does she have in the end any drive for her to actually be liked? It seems again she might just be liked because of her concept of being the different mage but other that than she's shown to deliver all these lines without charm and anything cute she said really seemed passed over to me

[thats1evildude]

Merrill doesn't cry or mourn the death of the Keeper/her tribe? Must have imagined all those tears during her last Questioning Beliefs quest, then.

[Renmiri1]

lol

In my first DAO playthrough I didn't stop at the tavern on Lothering and missed Leliana. Didn't miss her a single second. On subsequent PTs I did recruit her but she was pretty bland and uninteresting to me, plus her idea that the Maker and Andraste talked to her was way too Mary Sue to my taste. I mostly kept her at camp, thigh I did get Zevhran to learn her first battle song.

Merril OTOH was completely indispensable from my party, as Warrior or Rogue I needed a good bad ass range battle mage and her spell tree rocked. Her personality was also much more interesting, rebellious and determined, without thinking the Maker spoke to her in private

Goes to show how people can completely disagree with your preconceived views of "fact".

PS: And how can you not find her cute ????? I still chuckle every time I remember she telling Sebastian where to put his arrogant human centric religious stuff.. "The Maker wants you to be Elves ?"

to me:
Leliana's "cuteness" = 

Merril's cutness = 

Modifié par Renmiri1, 02 avril 2013 - 06:00 .

[Imnon00b5]

Renmiri1 wrote...

lol

In my first DAO playthrough I didn't stop at the tavern on Lothering and missed Leliana. Didn't miss her a single second. On subsequent PTs I did recruit her but she was pretty bland and uninteresting to me, plus her idea that the Maker and Andraste talked to her was way too Mary Sue to my taste. I mostly kept her at camp, thigh I did get Zevhran to learn her first battle song.

Merril OTOH was completely indispensable from my party, as Warrior or Rogue I needed a good bad ass range battle mage and her spell tree rocked. Her personality was also much more interesting, rebellious and determined, without thinking the Maker spoke to her in private

Goes to show how people can completely disagree with your preconceived views of "fact".

PS: And how can you not find her cute ????? I still chuckle every time I remember she telling Sebastian where to put his arrogant human centric religious stuff.. "The Maker wants you to be Elves ?"

to me:
Leliana's "cuteness" = 

Merril's cutness = 

Cute? what the awkwardly delivered line of "Would you like some...water" 

It's literally such an archtype the only thing she ever had going for her was the fact she was a blood mage and therefore easy target to criticism and Aveline calling her an idiot 
And you didn''t miss Leliana a single second in your first playthrough? Wow I can just imagine you playing the game not knowing who she was and saying "She's not awesome i dont miss her"

Second of all I never said anything about combat I was purely talking about her as a character not as her usefulness in battle I literally said that. And if you didn't  use Leliana for her lethality skills, the fact there is so much gear to ensure she gets critical hits almost every attack, and her attacks can be made faster than everyone else's then don't blame her if you cant make her good 

And when did I say Merrill stinking was a fact? I actually asked people for their opinion as I stated that was mine 

Ok so she didn't think the Maker was talking to her in private but of course her idiotic quest for the mirror that was actually summoning a demon to kill her and yet she had a drive for it for no reason, ignored the advice of all the clan showing her arrogance and stupidity (not her rebellious nature because she left the village like a coward anyway) and never understanding she's the cause for such unnescary trouble. 

Leliana was the saucy minx that was a bard and a spy that used deception and lies to get what she wants yet went to the Maker for solace and even got her own expansion pack because there was that much more to her character. Considered practically as forbiden fruit even. Nah she actually delivered lines than not having to pause every 4 words  

[Renmiri1]

tehehe... Didn't mean to offend you or Leliana. Just saying I feel exactly the opposite.

I didn't romance Merril on my PT, I usually play hetero female and Merril felt like a little sister to my femHawke but to me she was very cute and adorable. And Leliana was a pushy "holier than though" zealot that thought I was dating her, out of me answering her inane questions about hair. But mostly just annoying.. Her voice and attitude hit me like nails scraping on chalk. Mostly on DAO, on DA2 her little cameos weren't that bad.

But again, different strokes for different folks. I'm glad you enjoyed lots of Leliana in DAO even though I have no idea how.
In my case, not having her on my first playthrough was actually more fun than having her in later PTs. That is why I say I didn't miss her. Because every PT after that my OCD self wouldn't let me skip recruiting her and I'd go #@#@!# wish this annoying little goody two shoes (who actualy lies and cheats more than my warden ever did)  wasn't here... Why is this annoying woman talking to me ? Won't she ever STFU ??? No, I never flirted with you you numbskull, leave me and Alistair alone! 


Dunno, maybe she reminds me of someone I don't like, or something. I just couldn't stand her on DAO. Maybe that is your beef with Merril. To most people, she is just adorable! An idiot sometimes, but so is my little sister so I can forgive her for that, like I forgive my sis :innocent:

PS: Never watch Torchwood. The VA for Merril is one of the protagonists so you will definitley want to claw your ears off if you listen to any dialog 

Modifié par Renmiri1, 03 avril 2013 - 05:37 .

[Imnon00b5]

Alright now i can respectfully view your opinion and too me it seems first of all if you were mandatory not only to talk to her but to romance her which is crazy since first of its literally so hard to romance her since you have to bed her all the way to Massive Cunning practically. Unlike Alistair her approval doesn't jump either. The first flirt encounter is pretty much Major cunning and she has very few romance options in the beginning so you have to answer the right answers immediately to get her romance. Not only that but if you give her the fest-day gifts early you can't even romance her.

She also dropped that holy maker crap after 3 or so conversations. Ok she has morality how is that so annoying?

And its not that i cant stand Merrill either its like someone i told on YT is that the only thing i hate about her is the fact she seems like a waste. Bioware is known for its companions. I mean hell I liked every single companion (including Awakening) except Sigrun.

But seriously I hardly liked a lot of companions from DA2 and omg Merrill was just so bland. The moment i got her I thought "she's cute and she's a blood mage so she'll be strong"

I definitely didn't want to romance Isabella sure she's cool but damm she's easy. So I decided to put effort to Merrill as I did to Zev, Alistair, Leliana and all the other cool people but she just had no charm she was just the awkward girl and not the cute awkward the type who bites their lips and blush but just awkward. In the end it took until the end of the game for us to even be serious so

uhhh

[Renmiri1]

Lol Sigrun is one of my all time favorite companions... Not as LI but as a BFF she is just so funny, not mopey, in spite of her obviously troubled past.

Let me guess, you like Velanna and Liara ? Hate them.

In Brazil it is said you and I are perfect to share a box of chocolates because we will like / despise precisely the opposite flavors 

Modifié par Renmiri1, 04 avril 2013 - 09:41 .

[Imnon00b5]

lmao thats very intresting analogy

No I dont like Sigrun just because the same reason I dont like Merrill she showed no attraction and charisma compared to the other charactyers. As I said I dont like her past because idc that doesn't influence my liking

If Morrigan turned out to have a weakly explained background or concept I wouldnt care because i still freaking lover her, literally lol. But Sigrun didn't even have some gimmick or archtype. She was supposed to be...cherry but like I didn't see it. "Oh a chance to go fight a battle with little odds against us, you better take me with you" Zev, and Shale delivered that better i just didnt get anything from her

I hate Velanna but thats why I like her, i like it when a game can make you feel something toward a character love/hate, friendship/rivavrly, make me think, make me mourn them etc etc then I like it and I like Velanna for giving me a reason to hate her. She was stubborn and rude and my warden disagreed with her when he was a human since he went out of his way to help Elves.

I dont know who Liara is personally sorry

[CuriousArtemis]

I thought Merrill was interesting, though she's definitely my least favorite LI (in fact, she's the only companion I haven't romanced) in DA2.

I think it just depends on personal taste; no one is going to convince to like a character you don't like. I don't really like Leliana, for example, but it's not the writers' fault. She just doesn't click with me.

*glances above* I also dislike Velanna but love Liara. Ha!

[Hazegurl]

I agree OP, except you got one part wrong. She isn't even good for combat.

I like Merrill as the little sister type but romancing? Just no.

[Imnon00b5]

Hazegurl wrote...

I agree OP, except you got one part wrong. She isn't even good for combat.

I like Merrill as the little sister type but romancing? Just no.

well honestly bro her blood magic is a HUGE boost I have her const till 20 and literally she just spams spells all the time 

and not only that but Primal seems better than elemental and so thats good crowd control with the blood magic and I use enthropy with her so she becomes a complete crowd controller

So I have Anders as a healer/supporter with all the support spells and Merrill is all about damage dealing

Im going to do it the other way around for the next plathrough tho 

[hobbit of the shire]

In my world, I think both Merrill and Leliana are too annoyingly cute. Especially Merrill. Reading through Faerunner's post, I see that I missed a lot of the deepness in Merrill. Maybe it was the cuteness that blinded me. She was charismatic in some ways and very weak in others, and those weaknesses really bugged me. To each their own. For example, my last playthrough I was pretty mean to her. Charmed her then dumped her. Then berated her for causing the death of her entire clan. She was sad and then it all seemed hunky-dory again. I wanted her to rage or do something. That was my beef with Merrill. She just seemed awkward most of the time. I guess I like characters like Morrigan instead. Sure, I hated lots of what she did (especially in my 1st playthrough as a very good-natured, kind Warden). But I sure liked how she stuck up for herself. Merrill stuck up for her beliefs, I applaud her for that, but at times she could hardly be taken seriously.

[GeminiParadox]

I'm so sorry that genuinely socially awkward people aren't attractive to you. It sounds like you're judging her as a romantic interest compared to Leliana. It's fine if Merrill's type doesn't appeal to you, but I think an introverted, awkward, outcast character like her is fascinating by her own merits.

I like Leliana as well. She's beautiful, complex, has an engaging backstory... But she's simply not like Merrill. Merrill is so awkward because she spent most of her life being away from people and not having anything in common with others, even her own clan. Personally, I love Merrill's personality and Eve Myles's voice acting for her. She may be awkward and naive at times, but she sticks to her beliefs even when everyone else is against her.

To each his own, I guess. I didn't realize every shy person had to be the stereotypical blushing cutesy type to be acceptable. Some people are just socially awkward, and that's okay.

[Imnon00b5]

[quote]GeminiParadox wrote...

I'm so sorry that genuinely socially awkward people aren't attractive to you. It sounds like you're judging her as a romantic interest compared to Leliana. It's fine if Merrill's type doesn't appeal to you, but I think an introverted, awkward, outcast character like her is fascinating by her own merits.

I like Leliana as well. She's beautiful, complex, has an engaging backstory... But she's simply not like Merrill. Merrill is so awkward because she spent most of her life being away from people and not having anything in common with others, even her own clan. Personally, I love Merrill's personality and Eve Myles's voice acting for her. She may be awkward and naive at times, but she sticks to her beliefs even when everyone else is against her.

To each his own, I guess. I didn't realize every shy person had to be the stereotypical blushing cutesy type to be acceptable. Some people are just socially awkward, and that's okay.[/quotewell in a game like this where the companions drive with charm, intrest, and a drive to get to know them. Merrill was shy but her excecution made it awkward she wasn't really awkward herself but it felt it and in my 2nd plathrough I was a girl who was with Fenris and so was a friend to Merrill (First its not like romance and friendship characters are really different) but I didn't suddenly maybe like her more so its not really that 

[Imnon00b5]

oh ok i messed up the quote here's what i meant
in a game like this where the companions drive with charm, intrest, and a drive to get to know them. Merrill was shy but her excecution made it awkward she wasn't really awkward herself but it felt it and in my 2nd plathrough I was a girl who was with Fenris and so was a friend to Merrill (First its not like romance and friendship characters are really different) but I didn't suddenly maybe like her more so its not really that

[cJohnOne]

I'm always choosing between having Merill or Anders and I usually choose Merrill because she's naive and attractive.

[IllusiveManJr]

As was said, it depends on your personal preferences.

[Imnon00b5]

Faerunner wrote...

Imnon00b5 wrote...

Does she have in the end any drive for her to actually be liked? It seems again she might just be liked because of her concept of being the different mage but other that than she's shown to deliver all these lines without charm and anything cute she said really seemed passed over to me

That's an extremely self-centered question. All characters have things about them to like. Just because YOU don't like her doesn't mean there's nothing about her to like. Shame on you. 

And yes, I like Merrill for her own merit as well as how I feel she contributes to the game.

Shame on me to have an opinion and trying to see if anyone can frame it to let me see whats past the awkwardness? I never said it's a fact that she's not good, where did you suddenly become butthurt? 

[LobselVith8]

Imnon00b5 wrote...

 Now in my time debating with people on forums or YT comments on whether or not DA:O or DA2 was a better game I have come to know obviously that DA2 has pros and cons. However since 2009 when the came had come out I had always come to the decision that Merrill is a horrible companion that really offered nothing in depth or character. She seemed to be an attempt of being a Leliana but she just ended up being completely generic that even Veleana seemed more intresting.

I'm not sure why you think Merrill is an attempt at Leliana, or Velanna. Leliana was a religious Andrastian who differed from the mainstream Chantry on her views about the Maker, and thought she saw a vision. She was a former bard, and was torn between her current state, and having her personality hardened. Velanna was one of the People, but that's pretty much where the similarity ends. She was resentful when the humans tried to burn her clan alive, and motivated some of her clan to retaliate against them. Through interaction with The Warden, she can change her view on humans and come to terms with what happened to her sister.

Frankly, I don't see the need to compare Merrill with Leliana or Velanna. They are different characters. Merrill was an intelligent young woman who wanted to do something about the plight of the People, and she tried to utilize a revolutionary technology from the past that she thought could benefit elves across Thedas. She studied the lore, she extrapolated information from the shard, and she was careful in her attempts to reconstruct the Eluvian. I respected Merrill for actively doing something about the slow downfall of the People, instead of following the status quo and doing nothing but wandering Thedas.

Imnon00b5 wrote...

Now the reaons why I feel that is she never has charm throughout the story. Her awkwardness has no drive to it. Leliana was pretty shy and flustered and it was cute and funny. The Warden even dug into it a little bit. Then sometimes her dirty side appeared as Zevran would call her a "saucy minx"

I never felt that way. Even though I have serious problems with Dragon Age II - and especially Hawke - I really liked Merrill. She was a good blood mage who was socially inept with humans and human culture - a consequence of culture shock - but she was adamant about her beliefs, to the point of debating her religious views with Anders' own Andrastian views without capitulating to his attempts to change her mind, and her dry humor was funny (even though it went over some people's heads at times).

Imnon00b5 wrote...

yet Merrill remained awkward and in my romance with her I never felt we had any actual connection. And it wasn't because we had different views on romance like Morrigan&Warden it was just because there was no good writting behind it.  

I respectfully differ with you on that. I thought Merrill was great. She was a dynamic, three-dimensional character. Her drive to save the People made her a hero in my eyes. I also liked her empathy for the mages, for Hawke when he lost his mother, and her compassion for people who treated her like dirt - Fenris if Hawke considers selling him to Danarius, and Anders when Hawke needs to decide whether he should live or die. Despite the fact that both men have treated her horribly for nearly a decade, she is willing to show them compassion - something that neither Fenris nor Anders are capable of doing when the other is in danger.

Imnon00b5 wrote...

Even then whenever we deal with her main story with the mirror she seems so off-character (from w.e character I could get from her) and it just didn't fit. I later on slaughtered her own clan (by accident) and she hardly reacted. She didn't cry she didn't even really mourn. There I felt Bioware just wasted a character slot.

Merrill was pretty upset when my apostate Hawke protected Merrill from the members of her own clan who attempted to murder her in cold blood.

Imnon00b5 wrote...

Now whenever someone tells me Merrilll is good i get surprised. When I inquire why they give me the CONCEPT of why she's good. 

See they say: Merrill is a blood mage who summoned a demon to make her stronger and against the clans wishes she wishes to solve the mysteries of her clan. So even though what she does is bad it's for a good cause. The clan never sees it that way and view her as a monster. Now  its your job to either support her or go against her.  She's deep

Merrill didn't summon Audacity; the demon was already trapped in a totem in the real world, sundered from the Fade. Merrill spoke to it to learn blood magic, to amplify a spell she used in Origins (to heal the Dalish protagonist when he or she fell ill from the darkspawn taint) in order to cleanse the shard (since she lacked the sufficient amount of lyrium to cleanse it with ordinary magic).

The clan disagreed with her because Marethari did, and the members of the Sabrae Clan seemed to trust her word on the matter, despite the fact that Marethari never gives any indication that she conducted any research on the matter (and her arguments keep changing between Acts, so it's difficult to take her seriously when Merrill actually did research on the matter).

Honestly, I don't see any reason to denigrate Merrill's attempts to save the People. Right or wrong (and even Merrill admits she could be wrong), she's at least doing something to stop the decline of the People. It's certainly more important and a better use of her time than Hawke wearing a silk robe and doing jack **** in his manor for years at a time.

Imnon00b5 wrote...

See thats nice and it sounds...decent. But see the EXECUTION of it however was poorly implented. All of that was revealed but it was never shown correctly or shown to be epic.

I don't think it was poorly implemented. I cared more about Merrill than I did about Hawke, Leandra, Carver, or Bethany.

Imnon00b5 wrote...

Sten for example story can be simple: The man loses a sword and he feels his honor is lost because of it. Now of course the concept of that is not so simple but even if the concept was simple the way Bioware executed his story was great and he became cool as hell. 

Merrill in the end was boring and unintresting she's just good for combat and that's a true shame.

Except I don't think everyone shares your opinion about Merrill, so it isn't a shame for the people who find her to be one of the best characters from Dragon Age. I cared about and respected Merrill, even when I had absolutely no respect or empathy for Hawke.

Imnon00b5 wrote...

So thoughts? I'm open to like Merilll since I don't like practically any of the DA2 characters so... 

Those are my two cents.

[Nightdragon8]

Merill wasn't the one who saved the Dalish Warden... it was the Keeper not the Keeper apprentice

So... you care more about a side char than you do about your own... ok...

[LobselVith8]

Nightdragon8 wrote...

Merill wasn't the one who saved the Dalish Warden... it was the Keeper not the Keeper apprentice

It's mentioned by Keeper Marethari (to the Dalish protagonist) that Merrill knows her magic; this is the reason that Marethari wanted Merrill to accompany the Dalish protagonist to the tainted Eluvian. As Marethari notes, "She has a sense for these things, she could shed light on the nature of this illness."

Nightdragon8 wrote...

So... you care more about a side char than you do about your own... ok...

Hawke wasn't my character, he was Bioware's character. The Warden was my character; I shaped who he was, how he felt about blood magic, where he was born, what he thought about the Chantry and the templars, and more - to the point where he genuinely felt like my character. I never felt that way with the Champion of Kirkwall, who seemed to be incredibly slow and passive when I wanted him to be intelligent and proactive. With Hawke, I couldn't have him give a positive opinion on blood magic or express disblief in the Maker, and I didn't know what he was going to say most of the time because of the awful paraphrasing.

Also, while Hawke is mimicing furniture with Petrice and Cullen (when he and a single templar come to take away Bethany to a Circle where he knows mages are being made tranquil illegally), or doing nothing for three years about Meredith's dictatorship despite being named Champion of Kirkwall, Merrill was studying the lore on the Eluvian and extrapolating information from the shard she took to construct her own Eluvian, for the intent of giving the People revolutionary technology that could irrevocably change their lives for the better.

[Spirited Treasure]

Merrill is OK.. I'd rather hear her chatter than Anders. Leliana is OK too. I got a bit tired of the Maker stuff with her but learned to ignore it. I romanced Leliana once. I did her dlc too. There is much more to her than meets the eye. Merrill for me is a NO to romance.. Just doesn't appeal.