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[IntelligentME3Fanboy]

what is dragon age and why discuss it in mass effect forums

[Subject M]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

iakus wrote...

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Yep. Guess he's evil?

See, that's the biggest failing of these endings. No matter what you pick, someone will think you're evil. That does not help the fanbase.

That's what you get when you choose controversy over closure when you write endings

Believe me, I understand what there is to dislike about the ending, but people are only responsible for their own actions.

Making accusations of other people for the ending they pick is childish, arrogant, and completely unfair.

Fans need to take responsibility for their conduct, no matter how angry they may be.


BTW, I've been posting here since before the ME3's release and the ensuing fiasco. This place is plenty toxic, so let's not kid ourselves about that one! It's not all on the fans, bad moderating plays a big part, but BSN has carried notority before the ending. And that they're always looking to pin the blame for how they behave on other things is the reason why.

Pretty much.

[Bill Casey]

Mark Meer loves playing villains. Especially monsters...
He had a lot of fun playing all of the dark spawn in Dragon Age origins...

I doubt his favorite ending is based on ethical considerations like most people's would be...

[Ajensis]

Bill Casey wrote...

Mark Meer loves playing villains. Especially monsters...
He had a lot of fun playing all of the dark spawn in Dragon Age origins...

I doubt his favorite ending is based on ethical considerations like most people's would be...

Oh, please. So because someone enjoys playing the villain, they're less likely to judge their decisions from an ethical point of view? That's just nonsense. If anything, it's the other way around; seeing things from the antagonist's perspective potentially futhers understanding by giving you a more complex - and complete - view.

This thread is silly and with lots of silly replies. What does it matter what a Bioware lead writer for a different game series chose at the end of playing ME3? Absolutely nothing.

[Argolas]

If you need to quote grey morality that is usually not a good sign... look at TIM.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Argolas wrote...

If you need to quote grey morality that is usually not a good sign... look at TIM.

What about TIM?

[Ryzaki]

Taboo-XX wrote...

David Gaider also liked the romance in Twilight.

JUST SAYING.

I laughed so hard at this I think my neighbors heard

[CosmicGnosis]

Argolas wrote...

If you need to quote grey morality that is usually not a good sign... look at TIM.

... Because the world is black and white?

[Bill Casey]

Ajensis wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Mark Meer loves playing villains. Especially monsters...
He had a lot of fun playing all of the dark spawn in Dragon Age origins...

I doubt his favorite ending is based on ethical considerations like most people's would be...

Oh, please. So because someone enjoys playing the villain, they're less likely to judge their decisions from an ethical point of view? That's just nonsense. If anything, it's the other way around; seeing things from the antagonist's perspective potentially futhers understanding by giving you a more complex - and complete - view.

He said he liked it not only because he got to voice it but also because Shepard got to be a cool Reaper god...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 02 avril 2013 - 06:17 .

[Argolas]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Argolas wrote...

If you need to quote grey morality that is usually not a good sign... look at TIM.

What about TIM?

TIM always hid behind that claim. You can't justify black because you are doing white at the same time. If a terrorist organization distributes food and water to the poor in their home country, that doesn't make them gray or shady. They are still the bad guys as long as they kill innocents for ideological reasons.

CosmicGnosis wrote...

Argolas wrote...

If you need to quote grey morality that is usually not a good sign... look at TIM.

... Because the world is black and white?

That's not what I meant. Grey morality exists, I don't question that, and I don't say it's always a bad sign. I am just saying that it is largely abused to justify what should not be justified.

[Xilizhra]

TIM always hid behind that claim. You can't justify black because you are doing white at the same time. If a terrorist organization distributes food and water to the poor in their home country, that doesn't make them gray or shady. They are still the bad guys as long as they kill innocents for ideological reasons.

Such as... getting rid of the people we think are terrorists and seeing other nations' populations experience "acceptable losses?" I wonder what you'd say the US government is in this case.

That's not what I meant. Grey morality exists, I don't question that, and I don't say it's always a bad sign. I am just saying that it is largely abused to justify what should not be justified.

And yet, it's impossible to justify any ending without it.

[Ajensis]

Bill Casey wrote...
He said he liked it not only because he got to voice it but also because Shepard got to be a cool Reaper god...

So? We all play Mass Effect in different ways. Maybe he didn't take the endings as seriously, that his choice wouldn't be used on a forum as an example of him being morally corrupt or whatever you're getting at. Maybe he did put a lot of thought into it, but felt that giving a long, serious speech about his decision would be boring in the context of an interview (or wherever you heard it), so he just went for a quick, funny remark instead.

At the end of the day, none of it is really important. What does it matter what Mark Meer chose and what he gave as a reason for this choice? What does it contribute to this thread?

[EnvyTB075]

Bill Casey wrote...

David Gaider is the one who called the forums toxic...
His true colors have come out...
He is the poison...

Ah, after doing all the banning for those complaining about DA2, or was that someone else?

[Bill Casey]

Ajensis wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...
He said he liked it not only because he got to voice it but also because Shepard got to be a cool Reaper god...

So?
We all play Mass Effect in different ways. Maybe he didn't take the
endings as seriously, that his choice wouldn't be used on a forum as an
example of him being morally corrupt or whatever you're getting at.
Maybe he did put a lot of thought into it, but felt that giving a long,
serious speech about his decision would be boring in the context of an
interview (or wherever you heard it), so he just went for a quick, funny
remark instead.

At the end of the day, none of it is really
important. What does it matter what Mark Meer chose and what he gave as a
reason for this choice? What does it contribute to this thread?

I'm not the one who brought it up...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 02 avril 2013 - 06:27 .

[Eterna]

Bill Casey wrote...

Bull****...
It's ****ing deplorable...
David Gaider should be ashamed of himself...

It's the most evil ****ing thing I've seen in fiction...
My DNA is not your toy...

Nobody cares about your DNA, this is a video game. 

David Gaider is the one who called the forums toxic...
His true colors have come out...
He is the poison...

There may actually be something wrong with you. 

Modifié par Eterna5, 02 avril 2013 - 06:29 .

[Peranor]

David Gaider or not. I'd rather stable my balls to a burning log before choosing Synthesis.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Argolas wrote...

TIM always hid behind that claim. You can't justify black because you are doing white at the same time. If a terrorist organization distributes food and water to the poor in their home country, that doesn't make them gray or shady. They are still the bad guys as long as they kill innocents for ideological reasons.

Always? I only remember him invoking the "grey morality" argument once between the games.

If black is irredeemible to you, than there's really no one in Mass Effect you can reasonably "white."

Virtually every character/organization in ME has a dark side to him/her/it. Cerberus never neutered a species. Mordin, STG?

[Taboo]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Cerberus never neutered a species. Mordin, STG?

They just lead people into a camp and then experimented on them.

Historical paralells anyone?

[Peranor]

Taboo-XX wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Cerberus never neutered a species. Mordin, STG?

They just lead people into a camp and then experimented on them.

Historical paralells anyone?

[Bill Casey]

Eterna5 wrote...

There may actually be something wrong with you.

I have severe depression from the ending...

[Argolas]

Xilizhra wrote...

TIM always hid behind that claim. You can't justify black because you are doing white at the same time. If a terrorist organization distributes food and water to the poor in their home country, that doesn't make them gray or shady. They are still the bad guys as long as they kill innocents for ideological reasons.

Such as... getting rid of the people we think are terrorists and seeing other nations' populations experience "acceptable losses?" I wonder what you'd say the US government is in this case.

Whoa there, I am not trying to start a discussion about the war on terrorism. I'm just saying that grey is often used as an excuse for something that is actually black. See below.

Xilizhra wrote...

That's not what I meant. Grey morality exists, I don't question that, and I don't say it's always a bad sign. I am just saying that it is largely abused to justify what should not be justified.

And yet, it's impossible to justify any ending without it.

That's not true. I hope this clarifies: When you justify a decision you make, you should argue with White and Black because that contains the facts as well as your opinion on them because that needs to be clear- you either do it or you don't, you can't partly choose Destroy and partly choose Control or whatever in that situation, nothing shady about that fact. Others are allowed and able to judge your claims. When you justify your decision with Grey, the whole thing is just unclear, I lack a better word for that at this point. You realize that it is not white but you are not willing to admit that it is black either. There is few others can make of that, or in other words, you judged your judgement yourself already which makes it harder for others to do so, that's why it is harder to argue against Gray even if it is just hidden Black. What it comes down to is this (my opinion): Black and White morality is something to be used, Grey morality is something to be observed.

[Eterna]

I am just getting so sick of people judging someones character on the basis of an ending they chose for a videogame.

Saying someone is an immoral monster for picking Synthesis or any other ending is ****ing stupid and you should feel ****ing stupid.

Modifié par Eterna5, 02 avril 2013 - 06:38 .

[Ajensis]

Bill Casey wrote...
I'm not the one who brought it up...

Someone mentioned Mark Meer in one line and you expand upon it with the post I first quoted. Obviously you wrote that post because you had a point, right?

Well, nevermind, I'm not interested in arguing. I've objected to your view of people liking to take on the villain role, that's all I wanted.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Taboo-XX wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

Cerberus never neutered a species. Mordin, STG?

They just lead people into a camp and then experimented on them.

Historical paralells anyone?

You kind of have to know the reasons why both cases happened to make parallels. Cerberus wasn't seeking to exterminate a race of undesirables, unlike STG(!), they were trying to get hard data on indoctrination. By all accounts, they took no pleasure in doing so, either.

An action that Shepard has the dialogue option of defending, no less, with a very convincing argument. Again, these characters don't come up with independent thought, it's the writers who are thinking these things. I've seen others on this site defend Cerberus for Sanctuary, too... folks that don't even choose Control (or Synthesis).


*edit*

This is a fun thread, Cosmic. Kudos! 

Modifié par HYR 2.0, 02 avril 2013 - 06:41 .