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[yesikareyes]

 So, I just finished Mass Effect 2 and I fell in love with the Suicide Mission all over again. No, this isn't a thread about bashing ME3's Priority: Earth. This is just a thread to appreciate the unique dynamics of the Suicide Mission and some thoughts if BioWare will ever bring that type of mission back. Anyway, I loved how the Suicide Mission brought everyone from your squad to work together in the final mission. I remember my first time playing, Kasumi died inside that ventilation shaft even if she was loyal because I took too long. It definitely gave me the feeling of being responsible over my crew. Jack also died because well, I took her to the human reaper baby mission and she was not loyal (didn't know about the morality system thing, since I played the game blind).

My favorite part of SM would have to be the long walk where you needed a biotic to create a field, because I found it particularly unique. You had one more squadmate assisting you in addition to the default two. You didn't need to hurry, but you had to stick with your biotic and act as a unit. In addition, hearing your diversion team leader over the radio was a nice touch. While we didn't see all of them fighting in one scene, it's these moments that make your squad feel like a 'real' team. The feeling of interdependence makes a difference in forging a connection with your team.  The dynamics of the Suicide Mission reminds me of  Elizabeth in BioShock: Infinite where the gameplay was more than just having companions following you around. 

It puzzles me why ME3 didn't include this dynamic in Priority: Eart since it was the very last mission, might as well have one last hurrah. For example, have those moments before going through the beam. Assign them roles and your choices will have consequences. I was also expecting the War Assets to be as similar as the consequences of getting or not getting Normandy Upgrades. In addtion to your EMS, having a particular war asset will save this person or have this effect. If you don't have it, someone will die or it will hamper your efforts in a way. That way, the EMS wouldn't just feel like a number.

I'm not saying it sucks or anything, just my suggestions for their future games. I don't want this to be a typical "This sucks" thread. I actually want to give constructive feedback to BioWare. Characters and narrative is one of the elements that has made BioWare known and loved, and it would be a shame if they would abandon the Suicide Mission model since it really enhanced the experience for me.  I wonder what everyone else thinks

[ForThessia]

I loved the SM too. It actually felt like Shep was using this massive team of specialists that he assembled. Everyone had a role to play instead of sitting on the ship like they usually did.

[CrutchCricket]

yesikareyes wrote...
I remember my first time playing, Kasumi died inside that ventilation shaft even if she was loyal because I took too long.

You... you monster!

But yeah suicide mission is how you end the game. Mind you, it should not be how you end the second game of a three part trilogy.

As long as they don't have to pick up and account for the pieces in some later work the suicide mission mechanic is great.

[arial]

and if they had made a "suicide Mission"-like mission, people would have complained they were "reusing the same concept over and over".

damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[Leonardo the Magnificent]

Suicide mission is way overrated, imo. Played through it again a little while ago and I'm thinkin' "This is it? This is a big thing?" But, yeah, if they really improve upon it, it'd be nice.

[yesikareyes]

CrutchCricket wrote...

yesikareyes wrote...
I remember my first time playing, Kasumi died inside that ventilation shaft even if she was loyal because I took too long.

You... you monster!

But yeah suicide mission is how you end the game. Mind you, it should not be how you end the second game of a three part trilogy.

As long as they don't have to pick up and account for the pieces in some later work the suicide mission mechanic is great.

I didn't know okay!! Yes, you are right it's a good mission for the last game of a trilogy. I was thinking that because of the Suicide Mission, most of the ME2 squad had "placeholder" roles in ME3 since you can basically kill everyone because of how dynamic the mission is. Oh, the memories of seeing a little bit of Miranda in ME3 

[Wulfram]

In broad terms, I agree. Stuff that brings in the whole squad is good and stuff that makes Shepard make tactical decisions is good. And havng some stuff that's simply a bit different from the rest of the game is good. The final mission should be special, not just regular stuff with a few extra boss enemies.

Too close a repetition of the ME2 suicide mission wouldn't necessarily be great, but the ideas behind it are good things to bear in mind.

Though I enjoy the final missions of ME1 too, despite them not having this sort of thing.

[yesikareyes]

Wulfram wrote...

In broad terms, I agree. Stuff that brings in the whole squad is good and stuff that makes Shepard make tactical decisions is good. And havng some stuff that's simply a bit different from the rest of the game is good. The final mission should be special, not just regular stuff with a few extra boss enemies.

Too close a repetition of the ME2 suicide mission wouldn't necessarily be great, but the ideas behind it are good things to bear in mind.

Though I enjoy the final missions of ME1 too, despite them not having this sort of thing.

Yeahp, not saying an exact copy of the Suicide Mission but the 'ideas' behind it like you said.

[shnig_1]

lol the first time i played me2, only miranda, jacob, and mordin lived.

Needless to say, i played it again, actually playing how i was supposed to, except for purposely killing jacob.

[Zehealingman]

Ah, yes... my first SM.

I still remember Kelly beeing melted... and screaming ://. Miranda beeing crushed in the end fight.
Grunt beeing taken away from me because Miranda failed with the biotic barrier. Jack, Legion and Thane beeing killed in the crash landing scene... I think Jacob got killed two.

[sr2josh]

OP I feel 110% the way you do about the SM in ME2 and how that format would have been perfect for Priority: Earth.  Not only did you get to know each of your squadmate's personality but gained their loyalty through helping them heal old wounds or fix a crisis they were in.  Spot on assessment on how the EMS and War Asset system should have worked similar to purchasing upgrades for the Normandy and squadmates. 

[CrutchCricket]

One thing I particularly liked about the Suicide Mission was non-chosen squadmates were still implied to do something. The fireteams were a great concept that should've been carried forward more. Otherwise what's the point of amassing so many badasses if only two are ever going to do anything at one time while the rest twiddle their thumbs?

Citadel did this as well, and even better since you could see the other squads moving and fighting around you. It was a treat but off-screen works just as well. And adds more tactical options to gameplay.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 02 avril 2013 - 06:51 .

[arial]

CrutchCricket wrote...

One thing I particularly liked about the Suicide Mission was non-chosen squadmates were still implied to do something. The fireteams were a great concept that should've been carried forward more. Otherwise what's the point of amassing so many badasses if only two are ever going to do anything at one time while the rest twiddle their thumbs?

Citadel did this as well, and even better since you could see the other squads moving and fighting around you. It was a treat but off-screen works just as well. And adds more tactical options to gameplay.

you need to Leave some capible fighters to defend the Normandy, if you don't, we get the whole Collector attack again and we come home to find out our ship is empty

[mtmercydave09]

I agree as well. I think it would have been better if ME3 would have had the ending mission involve being able to choose every squadmate. Sort of like how the Citadel DLC did it.

[CrutchCricket]

arial wrote...
you need to Leave some capible fighters to defend the Normandy, if you don't, we get the whole Collector attack again and we come home to find out our ship is empty

I don't mean all 12 (or 8 or 6 or whatever) obviously. That was idiot ball incarnate. But not necessarily because they all left. Rather, because they all left while testing dangerous unknown Reaper code.  Under normal circumstances, Joker and EDI could've handled an escape without the squad.

Still, it is prudent to leave some men behind to guard the ship. But that doesn't mean everyone has to stay.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 02 avril 2013 - 06:57 .

[PwrdOff]

arial wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

One thing I particularly liked about the Suicide Mission was non-chosen squadmates were still implied to do something. The fireteams were a great concept that should've been carried forward more. Otherwise what's the point of amassing so many badasses if only two are ever going to do anything at one time while the rest twiddle their thumbs?

Citadel did this as well, and even better since you could see the other squads moving and fighting around you. It was a treat but off-screen works just as well. And adds more tactical options to gameplay.

you need to Leave some capible fighters to defend the Normandy, if you don't, we get the whole Collector attack again and we come home to find out our ship is empty

Sure, but if anything, the last mission was supposed to have a "last game of the season, can't hold anything back now" feel to it.  I'm sure something along the lines of the suicide mission was planned at some point, but scrapped to bring the game out earlier.

[yesikareyes]

CrutchCricket wrote...

One thing I particularly liked about the Suicide Mission was non-chosen squadmates were still implied to do something. The fireteams were a great concept that should've been carried forward more. Otherwise what's the point of amassing so many badasses if only two are ever going to do anything at one time while the rest twiddle their thumbs?

Citadel did this as well, and even better since you could see the other squads moving and fighting around you. It was a treat but off-screen works just as well. And adds more tactical options to gameplay.

Doy, I knew something was missing in my OP. Yeah, part of why I loved Citadel so much and why it is my personal favorite Mass Effect DLC of all time was the teamwork element. 

@Arial

Yeah, understandable but the point is really the whole concept of having companions and Shepard more interdependent to one another. Not every mission should be like the Suicide Mission. It's a model that can be used for "end" missions or in special ones like the Citadel. Of course, when you mentioned you have to leave squaddies in the Normandy. That factors too, like who will you leave to guard the Normandy? If you leave someone inexperienced in the field... that could have consequences sort of like when you had to pick an escort for your crew.

@Makai81

Thanks. Yeah, and admittedly not all War Assets can have an effect but the 'significant' ones could. For example, I was looking forward to seeing different variations of Priority: Earth based on the assets I had and did not have.

Modifié par yesikareyes, 02 avril 2013 - 07:02 .

[David7204]

That probably isn't going to happen more than once in a blue moon for some time. Or ever.

[Asakawa]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Citadel did this as well, and even better since you could see the other squads moving and fighting around you. It was a treat but off-screen works just as well. And adds more tactical options to gameplay.

they could at least work on the animation for that part hahaha! "oh look we are all a happy train, chuuu chuuuu!"

[F4H bandicoot]

arial wrote...

and if they had made a "suicide Mission"-like mission, people would have complained they were "reusing the same concept over and over".

damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I don't see why people would be upset with the suicide mission mechanic being reused for the grand finale of 3.
The Suicide Mission itself is probably one of peoples favourite missions. It's the idea that your squad is being used, I think, that makes it so popular. Ok, Yes you never actaully see Squad 2 or whatever, but they proved with Citadel that it is actually possible to have every character on screen at once.

If the base concept was the same, which is using your squad to complete tasks, then I think P:E would have been a much better mission, heck if your EMS things came into play, like having a squad of rachni avaliabe to forge a path ahead of you or look after your second firesquad then you'd have a much better final mission, a mugh better use of your resources, and it would have a different tone and feeling to that of the suicide mission. Throw in an equally awesome bit of music and they'd probably have made on of the all time best missions in Mass Effect.

[yesikareyes]

F4H bandicoot wrote...

I don't see why people would be upset with the suicide mission mechanic being reused for the grand finale of 3.
The Suicide Mission itself is probably one of peoples favourite missions. It's the idea that your squad is being used, I think, that makes it so popular. Ok, Yes you never actaully see Squad 2 or whatever, but they proved with Citadel that it is actually possible to have every character on screen at once.

If the base concept was the same, which is using your squad to complete tasks, then I think P:E would have been a much better mission, heck if your EMS things came into play, like having a squad of rachni avaliabe to forge a path ahead of you or look after your second firesquad then you'd have a much better final mission, a mugh better use of your resources, and it would have a different tone and feeling to that of the suicide mission. Throw in an equally awesome bit of music and they'd probably have made on of the all time best missions in Mass Effect.

Spot on. It makes me wonder whether it was impossible or too tedious for them to do that based on a programming perspective. It would be so awesome to interview one of the devs and know why they decided to go that route in Priority: Earth.

[frostajulie]

I was so excited as I hurtled toward the ending of ME3 my first time I tried to do everything but I was all tingly at the thought that I may have missed something and someone might die or missions might play out ifferently because I thought there would be a suicide mission style final mission, I still find it an epic culmination of the entire game and assigning people to their jobs based on my knowledge of their skills made me feel like a real leader. I was really surprised and disappointed when nothing like that happened in ME3. I was so happy when I played Citidel and got to see my whole crew in action. THese are the kinds of things that make me want to buy all things Bioware super satisfying moments.

[capn233]

They should have used a Grand Suicide Mission style device for the end of ME3 where you had to deploy some of the larger war assets at the least, and then also your team / specialists if they cared to make it more detailed.

It almost seems like something like this could have been planned but canceled... who knows.

As for if people would have complained they would have reused a concept... those people likely aren't worth listening to in the first place. And it isn't as if there aren't other mechanics reused.

[Judas Bock]

I would really have wanted a Suicide Mission 2.0 at the end of ME3 (and it seems like it was planned, all the hints of "Choose your squad carefully" said by Anderson before the beam run, and "Weigh the strengths and weaknesses of your allies" said by Samara on the Citadel), it would have been the best thing ever.

But even if I can't get that, I would love to see similar mechanics used in future games, final missions that really feel like the outcome depends on what you've done before the mission (as well as how you act during it).

Modifié par Judas Bock, 02 avril 2013 - 09:33 .

[Constant Motion]

Suicide mission was, I'd contend, the best mission in the entire trilogy, and yes, I'd love to see a mission like it.

That said, I don't think it should be used every time, because that way it becomes less exciting. Becomes formulaic - and I think a repetitious formula would make Mass Effect feel less real. Part of the joy of the franchise is that its Milky Way is a living, breathing setting, and a set-in-stone template reduces that. While I don't think any single ME3 mission ever quite reached the giddy heights of Mass Effect 2's final act, you could argue that the entire game was one big suicide mission - any of your former allies could die pretty much throughout the game, including one of your squadmates. For my first Shepard, Tali didn't die in the designated "dangerous bit," she died on Rannoch, as the direct result of a choice I made. That's almost more heartbreaking.

Just as a suicide mission would've been fun in ME3, the anyone can die mechanic could've been cool in ME2. Imagine if Garrus could've died on his recruit mission - if when Archangel's life signs popped down to zero, the game continued as normal.