44 réponses à ce sujet

[yesikareyes]

Judas Bock wrote...

I would really have wanted a Suicide Mission 2.0 at the end of ME3 (and it seems like it was planned, all the hints of "Choose your squad carefully" said by Anderson before the beam run, and "Weigh the strengths and weaknesses of your allies" said by Samara on the Citadel), it would have been the best thing ever.

But even if I can't get that, I would love to see similar mechanics used in future games, final missions that really feel like the outcome depends on what you've done before the mission (as well as how you act during it).

Wow, I didn't remember those lines and that's sad if they scrapped the mechanics because of time constraints. Ardent BioWare fans will wait as long as we can for a great game! Heck, look at BioShock: Infinite. That took how long? 

Also, what you said brings fond memories. My nephew was playing the Suicide Mission when he called me saying: "Auntie this game is so hard, everything you do matters!!" and I laughed after responsing "And that's bad how??" 

[CrutchCricket]

Asakawa wrote...
they could at least work on the animation for that part hahaha! "oh look we are all a happy train, chuuu chuuuu!"

Oh man I lol'd hard at that.

Mass Effect 3 Conga Line!

Ra-ta-ta-ta-ta- hey!

[chemiclord]

I'd want to see a couple things.

1) If it's going to be a "suicide mission"... kinda make it... I dunno DIFFICULT. Don't make the right choices quite so obvious. Make beating the odds a real accomplishment rather than something that happens almost by default.

2) Don't tie survival to a simplistic and silly mechanic (Apparently loyalty makes your stomach BULLETPROOF in the ME world).

Otherwise, yeah, it would seem to follow that your final mission would attempt to utilize all the resources you spent the whole game gathering.

[Whybother]

yesikareyes wrote...
Spot on. It makes me wonder whether it was impossible or too tedious for them to do that based on a programming perspective. It would be so awesome to interview one of the devs and know why they decided to go that route in Priority: Earth.

One of the Bioware employees has said that testing the Suicide Mission was a huge PITA.  There were a huge number of variations and you need to think through and test all of them. 

[Astartes Marine]

I agree, and I feel that the Suicide mission was the best "final battle" of the entire series. 

Player choices and investments actually matter - whether you bothered to do loyalty missions, get particular upgrades, who you assign to which position during the mission, etc.  All have potential consequences and rewards.

Epic music - needs no explanation.

Unique elements - The biotic bubble for instance was a new and interesting thing, fun too. 

The chance for a happy ending - depending on your choices throughout the game you could have anything from a wild disaster where everyone including Shepard dies all the way to the fantastic success where all live.  It all depended on how invested the player was in the game and their wisdom in assigning positions to team members. 

A hell of a finale - taking a Cain to a Reaper's face and then the end run, need more be said?

A feeling of accomplishing something - No ending that fizzles out, no last minute contrived plot twists, you actually beat the odds and accomplished one hell of a feat.

[Zeldrik1389]

The whole mission felt pretty epic:
- Kick ass cut scenes: Still freaking love every bit of those.
- Freakin awesome music: Got me goosebumps.
- Require you to know your team well. It really show the connection between Shepard and his crew. You gotta know your squad well enough to assign their mission to maximize their chance to survive.
- Fun elements: Rushing to open the vent for your tech expert, or biotic buble shield. Very cool.
- Boss was a bit silly ( a human Reapers.... really....) but blow up his face with Cain was pretty damn satisfy.
- Possible Happy Ending. All your hard work finally paid off. Escaping a blowing up giant hide out with your full crew, and epic background music. Now that's an ending everyone would fall in love with.
- The threat is still there. A "to be continue" ending made players "want more" and keep them on the hook. Smooth.
- Aftermath talking with your crew. I kinda like that. Though if they add a aftermath celebrating feast as a DLC, I would pay for that lol.

[HolyAvenger]

Well unfortunately the mechanics of the suicide mission really screwed over ME2 squadmates in ME3, so that's one thing I didn't like about it.

I think it would've worked way better as a trilogy-ender than in the middle part of the trilogy.


Great mission though, still love it.

[T-Raks]

The best part of the Suicide Mission to me is that if you don't play a perfect playthrough of ME2 before, it can still surprise me. I played ME2 differently six or seven times and had always a different outcome when it came to casualties.

Then the involvement of nearly every squadmate (especially if you go in with a small team) is fantastic as is the feeling finishing it. Though the human reaper and the endfight mechanics were a bit strange, I'm still going out of that mission being pumped up to play on the story.

As an example: It would've been great if the war assets in ME3 would've decided whether you lose squaddies in the final battle or not i.e. having certain war assets being responsible for getting through different passages of the final battle without casualties. Especially in the end run it would've been fantastic if war assets decided whether you reach the beam with or without squadmates. The Normandy evac scene was IMO the worst part of what we actually got. Didn't make any sense in that deciding phase of the final push.

Modifié par T-Raks, 03 avril 2013 - 09:32 .

[Wolfva2]

I agree with the OP wholeheartedly. It was an awesome mission; heck, I can see why they didn't use it for 3, people would have complained. People complain about anything and everything. Still, a massive mission like that would have been sweet.

I'm hoping further games utilize more companions. Or, let you send them out on other missions while you do the main missions. Whether or not they succeed (and/or die) being dependent upon their skills, and how much they like each other. For instance, send Tali and Garrus into a derelict ship to recover some tech while under heavy fire? Success. Send Jack and Miranda to the corner store for a ham on rye with a medium soda? Failure, and one or both doesn't return.

[wright1978]

Yep really hope they return to the team dynamic aspect that was present in the ME2 suicide mission.

[MetioricTest]

I'd love new concepts like it, but I wouldn't want them to just do it again

[RealSmokki]

Suicide mission and virmire are my favourite missions from any game I have ever played. I really hope they will implement something like that to their future games. I understand that it's pain in the ass to do with so many variables, but it's so sad to think what they might have done with priority earth if they just had 6 more months to work on it.

Priority earth is a let down, because trought the game you are constantly being reminded to build your forces and alliances for the final push and in the end all you get is few cutscenes and your two teammates. Ending of ME1 at least had a good reason, why you had only two allies with you fighting in citadel, but why on earth is the rest of your squad sent back in the normandy after your speech during the priority earth.

I really hope they have learned what makes an epic mission for the ending.

[Aaleel]

I've never really seen the hype of the Suicide Mission, it's not even one of my top five missions in the trilogy. You spent the entire game putting together these specialists, and at the end, a lot of them weren't even qualified to do any of the jobs.

I didn't even know people could die on this mission until someone told me due to their being obvious choices for each role. So the first time I did, the mission was basically just a bunch of fighting.

My favorite missions in the trilogy were Virmire, Ilos/Battle of the Citadel. You had good dialogue (Sovereign, Vigil, Saren at the end), good story/plot revelations, moments like the Wrex confrontation, the VS choice.

They were just better all round missions.  My favorite game ending mission was Ilos/Battle of the Citadel.  I always count this as one mission because there;s really no lull, you pick one squad and it's continuous until the end.  They show a cutscene between you going in the conduit and coming out, but the mission was all together.

Modifié par Aaleel, 03 avril 2013 - 12:27 .

[MattFini]

The suicide mission makes Priority: Earth feel all the more tragic.

I hope BioWare has taken all of the rightful criticism of that crummy mission into account. I'm sure they have but it's worth repeating.

The final mission in Mass Effect 2 - and even DA:O - is a culmination of all your in-game work. The 40-60 hours spent previously, building alliances, making friends and doing every little side task actually meant something in these endgames. That's a huge part of why they were satisfying finales.

Yes, there's room for improvement and even more innovation. And it really does seem like ME3's crummy final battle was more of a time compromise than anything. I just really hope it's avoided next time.

Modifié par MattFini, 03 avril 2013 - 12:29 .

[yesikareyes]

Aaleel wrote...

I've never really seen the hype of the Suicide Mission, it's not even one of my top five missions in the trilogy. You spent the entire game putting together these specialists, and at the end, a lot of them weren't even qualified to do any of the jobs.

What do you mean? You had a diverse team of specialists. You usually had 2-3 squad mates who were ideal for each role. 

[ZLurps]

I hope missions like SM appear also in other games than ME series, idea just brings really lot of much needed fresh air to shooter genre.

[CrutchCricket]

yesikareyes wrote...
What do you mean? You had a diverse team of specialists. You usually had 2-3 squad mates who were ideal for each role. 

Yes but a lot of them weren't ideal for any role.

Tech- Anyone other than Tali, Legion or Kasumi dies
Fire Team- Anyone other than Miranda, Jacob or Garrus dies
Biotic Bubble- Anyone not Samara or Jack dies
Escort- I don't know that much about this one, Mordin's the ideal choice but Jacob worked too.

Here's an (incomplete) list of squadmates that never worked for anything:
Zaeed, Thane, Grunt.

I know they're optional but still. Not really bringing the "specialization" in "specialist". At least in terms of suicide mission mechanics. Storywise, their significance is unquestioned.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 03 avril 2013 - 03:47 .

[wright1978]

CrutchCricket wrote...

yesikareyes wrote...
What do you mean? You had a diverse team of specialists. You usually had 2-3 squad mates who were ideal for each role. 

Yes but a lot of them weren't ideal for any role.

Tech- Anyone other than Tali, Legion or Kasumi dies
Fire Team- Anyone other than Miranda, Jacob or Garrus dies
Biotic Bubble- Anyone not Samara or Jack dies
Escort- I don't know that much about this one, Mordin's the ideal choice but Jacob worked too.

Here's an (incomplete) list of squadmates that never worked for anything:
Zaeed, Thane, Grunt.

I know they're optional but still. Not really bringing the "specialization" in "specialist". At least in terms of suicide mission mechanics. Storywise, their significance is unquestioned.

Zaeed and Grunt are specialists for hold the line portion.

[CrutchCricket]

wright1978 wrote...
Zaeed and Grunt are specialists for hold the line portion.

Specialists in an "and everybody else" sense?

That's stretching it. In any case this particular issue isn't really with the people it's with the mission design. There are arguably only three really specialized roles, tech expert, strong biotic and fireteam leader. The other two are generalized (mere speed and strength respectively is enough).

More tailored roles would've gone a long way. For example if they knew of the Collector General and hatched a plan to take him out, that's up Thane's alley right there, with Legion and possibly Kasumi as secondary choices.

[yesikareyes]

CrutchCricket wrote...

wright1978 wrote...
Zaeed and Grunt are specialists for hold the line portion.

Specialists in an "and everybody else" sense?

That's stretching it. In any case this particular issue isn't really with the people it's with the mission design. There are arguably only three really specialized roles, tech expert, strong biotic and fireteam leader. The other two are generalized (mere speed and strength respectively is enough).

More tailored roles would've gone a long way. For example if they knew of the Collector General and hatched a plan to take him out, that's up Thane's alley right there, with Legion and possibly Kasumi as secondary choices.

Well, I think the main point is having more of a dynamic and interdependency in future BioWare games. Suicide Mission was a great example, but still can be improved upon in terms of tailoring each squad mate's specialization and what they could do in various roles.