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Synthesis is the final evolution of life. Control is one step before the final evolution of life.


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#126
Ecrulis

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Applepie_Svk wrote...

Ecrulis wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

i am not gonna pretend i have a full understand ( unlike some ;) ) but you do know that synthesis is in no way evolution ... it is a force "upgrade" if you wish to call it that

and not only that but that in no way is the final evolution of life. hell what edi says contradicts what the catalyst says


Most events in the three games contradicts what the catalyst says <_<


Only thing which support Catayst´s claims of bloodthirsty AIs is the idiotic sidequest back at Citadel in ME1 with suicidal money-grabing cash machine...


Why am I not remembering this one, and great now I am imagining a bipedal vending machine screaming "I WILL EAT YOUR CREDIT AND DEVOUR YOUR FINANCES, IT IS YOUR DESTINY!" :pinched:

#127
cerberus1701

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Ecrulis wrote...

Seival wrote...

...Yes, this is that simple.

While the process isn't over yet, evolution demands changes. Evolution demands saying farewell to old ways.

If you don't wanna be changed, if you don't wanna change others, if you don't have desire to shape the world around you, then you are dead-end and will become extinct eventually. And the ones who always look forward, who's mind is opened to changes and innovations - will prevail.

This is the way the universe works.


And evolution is not a process forced upon an entire galaxy by one man/woman with a god-complex



#128
Applepie_Svk

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Ecrulis wrote...


Why am I not remembering this one, and great now I am imagining a bipedal vending machine screaming "I WILL EAT YOUR CREDIT AND DEVOUR YOUR FINANCES, IT IS YOUR DESTINY!" :pinched:


 main plot foreshadowed right at start of game !!!... I mean trilogy... bwahahahahaha 

Modifié par Applepie_Svk, 03 avril 2013 - 02:15 .


#129
Ecrulis

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Applepie_Svk wrote...

Ecrulis wrote...


Why am I not remembering this one, and great now I am imagining a bipedal vending machine screaming "I WILL EAT YOUR CREDIT AND DEVOUR YOUR FINANCES, IT IS YOUR DESTINY!" :pinched:


 main plot foreshadowed right at start of game !!!... I mean trilogy... bwahahahahaha 


With special guest appearances from "The Biotic God" 

"You...will feel...the wrat...wait where....am I....again?"

Now complete with complimentary Volus Tipping minigame!

#130
shodiswe

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Megaton_Hope wrote...

KennyAshes wrote...

Megaton_Hope wrote...

There's literally no such thing as an evolutionary "pinnacle," of course, unless you count the point at which a species becomes stagnant and is edged out by a more adaptable competitor which survives to breed more effectively.


Given the fact that its said that we'd end up at the pinnacle of our evolution I assume that we'd be stagnant.
And even then, life did spring out of nothing so to speak, even after synthesis, organic life will still come to be, it will just take a whole lot longer.

The whole concept of arriving at a "pinnacle" or an "apex" or an end goal of any kind to evolution is just ridiculous. It's not what's going on. Evolution is most simply stated as "a species not dying or going sterile all at once, because then they'd all be gone."

The only things in the Mass Effect universe that can definitely keep changing in a positive way indefinitely, so long as they don't really screw up their future updates, are the Geth and the Rachni, for whom the present generation incorporates most or all of the accumulated knowledge and adaptations of the past generations. And that because they're a hive mind and are possessed of a race memory, respectively. Those are things which future generations could conceivably cease to have, as well.

Anything else is subject to current or future generations making really bad decisions, overextending their population range vis-a-vis their resource base, and...say...turning their home planet into a crime-riddled slum (like the earthlings did) or almost murdering themselves (as the Krogan did) or almost murdering one another (as the humans and Turians/Salarians and Krogans/every council race and Reapers did). The most fault-tolerant humanoid race are the Asari, who can at least see and experience an awful lot in an average lifetime, pass their memories unaltered from one generation to the next, and otherwise comport themselves as a superior version of humanity.


The geth don't share everyhing, when Legion wanted to tell Shepard about Geth history he had to access that information from the other Geth who still remembered that part of history, maybe the ones that experienced it first hand, Legion might have been aware of the even't but only in passing, for greater detail he had to download it from the other Geth and needed EDI's and Shepards permission to request the knowledge. Also they are not constantly conected on a concious level, their networkign mostly involves subconcious resource sharing for platform drivers and processes. Even if other information can be transmitted upon request or when the need to contact other geth arrises.
So it's not like all geth carries all the knowledge or memories of all other Geth.
As for why the quarians in that Geth memory wore helmets and you couldnt see their heads, (I know some people have mentioned it in the past), when Geth see a person then they probably scan the person in a similar way as facial recognition software. This information can't be relayed in a way that a human would recognize.
It's a way to store large quantities of identities and it's very efficient but it's not a photographic memory.

Modifié par shodiswe, 03 avril 2013 - 02:30 .


#131
Norbulus

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Ecrulis wrote...

Seival wrote...

...Yes, this is that simple.

While the process isn't over yet, evolution demands changes. Evolution demands saying farewell to old ways.

If you don't wanna be changed, if you don't wanna change others, if you don't have desire to shape the world around you, then you are dead-end and will become extinct eventually. And the ones who always look forward, who's mind is opened to changes and innovations - will prevail.

This is the way the universe works.


And evolution is not a process forced upon an entire galaxy by one man/woman with a god-complex

Please, stop saying this obsolete trite answer. Evolution is already a cruel process.

#132
KingZayd

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KENNY4753 wrote...

Synthesis is not the final evolution of life. Everything adapts to things different and everything evolves overtime. There is no final evolution. That would mean being perfect and perfecting every living thing is impossible


The final evolution is the one before extinction :P
And yes, control is one step before that :P

#133
KingZayd

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Applepie_Svk wrote...

Ecrulis wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

i am not gonna pretend i have a full understand ( unlike some ;) ) but you do know that synthesis is in no way evolution ... it is a force "upgrade" if you wish to call it that

and not only that but that in no way is the final evolution of life. hell what edi says contradicts what the catalyst says


Most events in the three games contradicts what the catalyst says <_<


Only thing which support Catayst´s claims of bloodthirsty AIs is the idiotic sidequest back at Citadel in ME1 with suicidal money-grabing cash machine...


Actually that one says that Organics will always enslave or destroy Synthetics. Which contradicts (at least pre-EC) the Starchild.

#134
Megaton_Hope

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shodiswe wrote...

The geth don't share everyhing, when Legion wanted to tell Shepard about Geth history he had to access that information from the other Geth who still remembered that part of history, maybe the ones that experienced it first hand,

After 300 years of a war attempting to physically eradicate the Geth in question, by a race initially equipped to accomplish the task, and which almost certainly destroyed the terminals of the Geth who originally showed signs of sentience. This information was preserved, and remained accessible, in a distant solar system, to a Geth who requested it to provide an aid to understanding for a conversation he was having at that time.

And we're arguing what, that the Geth will gradually lose access to their memories because...?

Legion might have been aware of the even't but only in passing, for greater detail he had to download it from the other Geth and needed EDI's and Shepards permission to request the knowledge. Also they are not constantly conected on a concious level, their networkign mostly involves subconcious resource sharing for platform drivers and processes. Even if other information can be transmitted upon request or when the need to contact other geth arrises.
So it's not like all geth carries all the knowledge or memories of all other Geth.

For the aforementioned reason, I don't consider that to be a relevant distinction. I don't have the complete works of Shakespeare memorized, but they are accessible to me in ways that make that unnecessary for most purposes and which facilitate access for certain other purposes. Shakespeare has been discorporate and unavailable for conversation for four hundred years; the Geth who originally experienced sentience may still be around in ways that Shakespeare is not.

#135
Vigilant111

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I think the OP is confusing "revolution" with "evolution"

#136
Daniel_N7

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Seival wrote...

...Yes, this is that simple.

While the process isn't over yet, evolution demands changes. Evolution demands saying farewell to old ways.

If you don't wanna be changed, if you don't wanna change others, if you don't have desire to shape the world around you, then you are dead-end and will become extinct eventually. And the ones who always look forward, who's mind is opened to changes and innovations - will prevail.

This is the way the universe works.


One can theorize over the merits and demerits of Synthesis, as of the other endings. This statement, however, contains exactly the type of reasoning that should alienate anyone with some knowledge of history.

I will agree that a work of science fiction can exist within the rules of its own setting - and within those rules, if one chooses to interpret Synthesis in a benign way, one can find beauty and even poetry in it. But still, no work of fiction exists dettached from culture and history. When you advocate that Synthesis is the final evolution of life, one must point out to the dangerous political connotations of the word "final".

If you search for the lessons of history you will find that the greatest calamities perpertated by men where done by those who found it legitimate to "change" others, even on the level of individual ideas, in the name of the greater "good". If you disregard the value of individual freedom, even going so far as to define it as a "dead-end", you should know that you're siding with some of the darkest ideas ever produced by mankind.

I don't think the OP is aware of these connotations, but he/she should.

Also, if you look at evolution, scientifically, you will comprehend that it is a very chaotic process of trial and error, where much "information" is lost. It's a process of adaptability that isn't driven by any sense of inevitability or perfection.
Nothing is "that simple"...

Peace.

#137
Ruadh

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Seival is the final evolution of dumb. Synthesis is one step before the final evolution of dumb.

#138
MegaSovereign

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Daniel_N7 wrote...

Seival wrote...

...Yes, this is that simple.

While the process isn't over yet, evolution demands changes. Evolution demands saying farewell to old ways.

If you don't wanna be changed, if you don't wanna change others, if you don't have desire to shape the world around you, then you are dead-end and will become extinct eventually. And the ones who always look forward, who's mind is opened to changes and innovations - will prevail.

This is the way the universe works.


One can theorize over the merits and demerits of Synthesis, as of the other endings. This statement, however, contains exactly the type of reasoning that should alienate anyone with some knowledge of history.

I will agree that a work of science fiction can exist within the rules of its own setting - and within those rules, if one chooses to interpret Synthesis in a benign way, one can find beauty and even poetry in it. But still, no work of fiction exists dettached from culture and history. When you advocate that Synthesis is the final evolution of life, one must point out to the dangerous political connotations of the word "final".

If you search for the lessons of history you will find that the greatest calamities perpertated by men where done by those who found it legitimate to "change" others, even on the level of individual ideas, in the name of the greater "good". If you disregard the value of individual freedom, even going so far as to define it as a "dead-end", you should know that you're siding with some of the darkest ideas ever produced by mankind.

I don't think the OP is aware of these connotations, but he/she should.

Also, if you look at evolution, scientifically, you will comprehend that it is a very chaotic process of trial and error, where much "information" is lost. It's a process of adaptability that isn't driven by any sense of inevitability or perfection.
Nothing is "that simple"...

Peace.


Couldn't have said it better myself.

#139
Wayning_Star

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sorry OP, Synthesis doesn't stop time. No final evolution to see here folks, move on, move, on..move on.

(some news does, however, travel faster than others.)

#140
Killdren88

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There is no such thing as final evolution. As the environment changes we change naturally with it. Evolution is not forced. It simply happens. Synthesis is nothing but a complete bastardization of evolution. No one not even some hyper advance alien civilization has any right to impose such a thing on people. Shep does anything but destroy s/he is doing a galaxy a disservice. We need to be allowed to evolve naturally without influence of anything but nature itself. Anything else forcing a change is wrong. If we want to evolve to a point to where we can live without fear war illness or famine. We must evolve to that level. We must show patience and wait until nature deems us ready to take the next step on the evolutionary ladder. And the only way that can happen is the removal of the forces that think themselves beyond the natural evolutionary rules. You remove the reaapers. You allow things to continue along the paths that nature had in mind.

Modifié par Killdren88, 03 avril 2013 - 05:02 .


#141
Rhayak

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CDR David Shepard wrote...

Death is the final evolution of life.



Whoa O_O some emo lyrics you got there.

#142
CDR David Shepard

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Rhayak wrote...

CDR David Shepard wrote...

Death is the final evolution of life.



Whoa O_O some emo lyrics you got there.


Haha...what?

It's the truth.

Evolution of life in of itself is never final...and it only ends when that life is gone.

#143
Wayning_Star

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CDR David Shepard wrote...

Rhayak wrote...

CDR David Shepard wrote...

Death is the final evolution of life.



Whoa O_O some emo lyrics you got there.


Haha...what?

It's the truth.

Evolution of life in of itself is never final...and it only ends when that life is gone.


how do we know, how can we ever really be sure... of that?Image IPB

#144
CDR David Shepard

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Wayning_Star wrote...

CDR David Shepard wrote...

Rhayak wrote...

CDR David Shepard wrote...

Death is the final evolution of life.



Whoa O_O some emo lyrics you got there.


Haha...what?

It's the truth.

Evolution of life in of itself is never final...and it only ends when that life is gone.


how do we know, how can we ever really be sure... of that?Image IPB


Scientifically speaking...of course.

#145
Wayning_Star

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[/quote]

Haha...what?

It's the truth.

Evolution of life in of itself is never final...and it only ends when that life is gone.[/quote]

how do we know, how can we ever really be sure... of that?Image IPB[/quote]

Scientifically speaking...of course.
[/quote]

point taken, but still, not very scientific, as the assumption is acquired without experiment/experience.

#146
Seival

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To everyone who think that evolution is limitless I want to ask a question:

Can you show me a limitless entity? ...And before you start linking pictures of circles and other looped paths, please think if that would be wise first.

Does a circled path actually represent something limitless? No, it has beginning, and is has the end. The beginning is where you started your path. The end is where you reached the beginning after a trip through the entire circle was over. You can continue moving, but you will just repeat your trip. Again, and again, and again. Moreover, to move through the cycled path you have to bind yourself to it. You can't leave the circle, and this is... yes, one more limit.

The beginning, the end, the path's borders. More than enough limits for a "limitless entity", don't you think so?

Go ahead, try to prove me that evolution is limitless. But remember, that you have to show me a truly limitless entity, which is impossible. How can you show that something has no limits? Take pen and paper, paint a spiral till it reaches a border of the paper and tell me there are no limits behind the paper borders? Don't be silly, you can't show limitless things, you have no way to prove evolution is limitless, while I just gave you quite a valid example of path endless and limited at the same time - path which evolution really is.

Modifié par Seival, 03 avril 2013 - 08:35 .


#147
adayaday

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The amount of contradiction in OP is staggering...

Modifié par adayaday, 03 avril 2013 - 08:56 .


#148
Applepie_Svk

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ginner dave wrote...

Seival is the final evolution of dumb. Synthesis is one step before the final evolution of dumb.


I like this quarian... he understand !^_^

#149
Spartas Husky

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Applepie_Svk wrote...

ginner dave wrote...

Seival is the final evolution of dumb. Synthesis is one step before the final evolution of dumb.


I like this quarian... he understand !^_^




Hardbinger of our dumbtruction lol

Modifié par Spartas Husky, 03 avril 2013 - 09:03 .


#150
ghost9191

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just because you can't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist seival, earth is young compared to the rest of the milky way. so might be something out there

hell i can't see your brain but it probably exist ( though some times i wonder )

and personally what edi say s just contradicts what the catalyst says. and on top of that it is a upgrade nothing more. evolution takes time



the fact that you think because we don't know about it , it doesn't exist. tells me a lot