151 réponses à ce sujet

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Qistina wrote...
Long written stuff

Skyrim's story is simple but effective. It allows the player to do other things than just the main quest like joining guilds, getting some legendary artifact, enhancing your abilities if you choose by becoming werewolves or vampires. The main quest in TES games is just another long questline & it does not dominate the whole game. It is a game catered to roleplayers, explorers & those who want to be what they like.

TES games lets the players be who they truly want to be. That is something not many games and not many developers offer.  That is why the TES games are named after the provinces it takes place, not TESV Dragonborn or TESIV Hero of Kvatch or TESIII Nerevarine because you can be whomever you like. You can choose not to be Dragonborn at all by not doing the main quest and instead choose to be The Dark Brotherhood's Listener or an Imperial Legate or Thieves Guild's Guildmaster. Or you can choose to be a Dragonborn as well as become other thing. You can also choose not be anyone and instead be a Hunter in Skyrim or just a mere thief or a mage mercenary doing jobs for people as a living. You can also just be a parent to two adopted kids, build your own house and live a family life. 

The reason Skyrim is a better Oblivion is because when you boil down to its mechanics, it is. Does that mean it is a bad thing ? No. They just took elements that made previous TES games so likeable and good  & improved on them. Single cast spells can now be dual cast, allowed you to be good in any skills you want, etc. That is not a bad thing. That is called innovation. Improving on the existing successful formula. 

Other than that, TES games have mods to allow players to make and to customize the game into what they want it to be. Players can make Skyrim into a tropical forest or we can make Skryim a survival RPG where you have to take into account the weather and your daily needs or we can make Skyrim a land where all the people look busty & buff, wear skimpy clothing and have smooth face. You have a free rein to play the game in any way you want or like it.

Dragon Age by contrast only has the main story plot. Does that mean that Dragon Age is inferior to Elder Scrolls ? No, it is a different gaming experience. It does however mean that Dragon Age need to have a very strong and a very interesting storyline because that is the crux of its experience. It also needs to have interesting enviroments and dungeons because you don't have an actual freedom in exploring them so you cannot really avoid them. In addition, the characters / followers need to be top notch because unlike TES games, you cannot be a lone wolf. Followers are essential in Dragon Age. The combat also needs to be more strategic because you don't have the freedom to specialize in anything you want.

That is why many players regarded Dragon Age 2 as a flop. The story is a mere shadow of the one in Origins, the enviroments are bland, combat is not as good as Origins,  etc.

These reasons are also why I think Bioware should not be looking at Skyrim at all because TES & Dragon Age are different. They should focus on improving elements of what makes a Dragon Age game (story, banter,follower interaction, strategical combat) instead of trying to copy elements of a successful but different franchise like Skyrim (open world,etc). You never see CDProjetkRed looking at other classical RPG franchises when they made Witcher 1 and Witcher 2. Yet those 2 are still hit games.  You never even see Call of Duty trying to copy elements of Bioshock even though Bioshock has better story, better exposition but they are still popular because they stay true to the CoD recipe. 

Modifié par The Sin, 05 avril 2013 - 04:28 .

[Aolbain]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

 dialogue list,

Skyrim had dialogues?

Modifié par Aolbain, 05 avril 2013 - 04:40 .

[Avalon The Elf]

Qistina wrote...

Skyrim succes is because of the hype, now it have been cool down and players have see through the illusion. Skyrim is just an enhanced Oblivion....

i have played Skyrim, it is boring...despite of the wonderful graphic, the game is empty....and actually it have the same formula with Oblivion...Escape from your captors, go to B, fetch something, return, then go the mountain....both are the same...

Oblivion
- escape from prison
- deliver Amulet to jauffery
- go to Kavatch to pick up Martin
- return to Jauffery
- go to Cloud Ruler Temple on the mountain....
- infiltrate Mythic Dawn base
- search some relic
- open a portal to "paradise"

Skyrim
- escape from Helgen
- go to Whiterun to meet the Jarl
- fetch Dragonstone at Bleak Fall barrow
- return to Whiterun becoming Dragonborn
- go to High Hrothgar on the mountain....
- infiltrate Thalmor embessy
- search some relic
- open the time wound

The story in TES is suck...the game is only about exploration, from point A to B you stumble upon something and quest activated, it just that...going to Rften, saw dragon on the way, kill dragon, continue, saw a cave, enter, fight vampires, continue...going to Windhelm, saw dragon on the way, kill dragon, and continue, then attacked by bandit, wolves, bears ect then continue....you may even forget to continue the quest at all and take no consequences

Dragon Age is not like that, so i don't know what is so great about Skyrim that Bioware look at....Dragon Age is far better than Skyrim

You escape from prison in all TES games, it's a staple now

[EpicBoot2daFace]

The story in TES is being told over many games. One game's main story is about a specific event. They're all connected, and events are unfolding as is written in the Elder Scrolls. This takes place over hundreds of years. It's a story of prophecy and it isn't entirely focused on just one hero or even many heroes. It truly is about the world of Tamriel and ultimately, the end of it.

If you play TES and actually pay attention to the story and what's going on within the world, you would have picked up on that, Qistina. Granted, Bethesda doesn't force the player to focus on the story. They realize some people just want to explore and kill monsters. But the story is there for the people who want it. You can learn a lot just by visiting a library in the game and reading some books on the subject of the Elder Scrolls prophecies.

The story in DA:O was your basic LOTR rip-off job. DA2's story was about doing chores around town. The stories in both games so far have been pretty bad. The only reason people hold DA:O's story in high regard is because DA2's story was so mind numbingly boring by comparison.

[XX-Pyro]

Avalon The Elf wrote...

Qistina wrote...

Skyrim succes is because of the hype, now it have been cool down and players have see through the illusion. Skyrim is just an enhanced Oblivion....

i have played Skyrim, it is boring...despite of the wonderful graphic, the game is empty....and actually it have the same formula with Oblivion...Escape from your captors, go to B, fetch something, return, then go the mountain....both are the same...

Oblivion
- escape from prison
- deliver Amulet to jauffery
- go to Kavatch to pick up Martin
- return to Jauffery
- go to Cloud Ruler Temple on the mountain....
- infiltrate Mythic Dawn base
- search some relic
- open a portal to "paradise"

Skyrim
- escape from Helgen
- go to Whiterun to meet the Jarl
- fetch Dragonstone at Bleak Fall barrow
- return to Whiterun becoming Dragonborn
- go to High Hrothgar on the mountain....
- infiltrate Thalmor embessy
- search some relic
- open the time wound

The story in TES is suck...the game is only about exploration, from point A to B you stumble upon something and quest activated, it just that...going to Rften, saw dragon on the way, kill dragon, continue, saw a cave, enter, fight vampires, continue...going to Windhelm, saw dragon on the way, kill dragon, and continue, then attacked by bandit, wolves, bears ect then continue....you may even forget to continue the quest at all and take no consequences

Dragon Age is not like that, so i don't know what is so great about Skyrim that Bioware look at....Dragon Age is far better than Skyrim

You escape from prison in all TES games, it's a staple now

No, only Oblivion and Skyrim. Morrowind had you arriving by ship and Daggerfall you were sent by the Emperor. Never played Arena.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

XX-Pyro wrote...

No, only Oblivion and Skyrim. Morrowind had you arriving by ship and Daggerfall you were sent by the Emperor. Never played Arena.

You start as a prisoner and the Emperor orders your release once you reach the land of Morrowind. That was made very clear as soon as you get off the boat start creating your character.

[nicethugbert]

T&A

[Ziegrif]

The moddability?

[Giltspur]

I doubt Bioware's not going to change their core formula which is to make narrative RPG's (like Witcher 2 or Dragon Age) as opposed to sandbox RPG's (like Elder Scrolls).  I suppose they might try to combine those two kinds of RPG's (like is being attempted in Witcher 3). 

But I doubt it.

They're probably just going to have 1) bigger, more open environments and 2) more details in the environment as a way of telling the setting's story in ways other than through characters speaking.

Sure, Bioware games will always have a lot of talk.  It's what Bioware is good at.  It's what they do better than Bethesda.  So that's not going to change.

But they can implement more open environments and greater environmental (be it exteriors or interiors) detail without compromising the sorts of games they make.

So probably that's what they're going to do. 

What do I mean?  I imagine in the past someone probably thought "Hey, let's not allocate x amount of time to make the books on the bookshelves look pretty.  Because, you know, who really looks at that stuff.  Our metrics say...hoom hoom hoom"  Here comes Skyrim with an answer: enough people for it to matter.

And someone might have said "How much history should we build into the dungeon environments?"  Here comes answer from Skyrim: dragon priest lore and wall carvings are cooler than a wheelbarrow.  (Dragon Age II often featured a wheel barrow or ox cart or such as a way of blocking certain paths in the mine map.)  Thedas has rich lore.  There are lots of ways to show that.   And given the cost of dialogue and the cinematics involved in stage dialogues, it only makes sense to look to other games for inspiration or more ways to deilver settings to people.

What about open environments?  You can make an open environment such that people don't lost.  Have a road going to the objective.  Or make a dungeon that feels open despite, in fact, being linear.  Consider many of the caves in Skyrim.  They feel open because they have verticality.  But they are mostly winding paths.  Yeah you could jump of the of the high winding ledge down into the water below if it's freedom you seek.  But no one's going to do that.  Unless they're doing out of boredom.  And if so, good for them. But having that option can contribute to a feeling of exploring something.

[Ziegrif]

krul2k wrote...

i like skyrim alot, but hopefully what the DA team dont take from it is the sense i personally get an that is what i do does not matter, i cant comment on other TES games as ive not played them, but i didnt like that in skyrim you could join every guild an basically become the leader, id a preferred that if you joined one guild access to or even outright hostility pursued you from maybe a rival one, joining and doing the DB questline should have (in my opinion) barred you from ever joining the imperial ranks.

Maybe im being to harsh, i just need a game where i can sit play it an feel/see consequences to my actions, if your giving these supposed region/world changing choices or status/rank acknowledgements it needs to be reflected and felt by the player, theres no use giving the pc them is nothing comes of it

Oblivion did not barr you from any guild unless you killed everyone from that guild.

If I remember correctly in Morrowind there was a conflict between the fighters guild and the thieves guild as in where you joined the other you'd have trouble later on in some quests.
There was also joining the great houses of Morrowind where joining one house locked you from the others oh and house Redoran will be on top after the empire abandons Morrowind and house Hlaalu gets branded as traitors for accepting the commerce the empire offered. Telvanni are as crazy as they always were.

But Skyrims a bit different. You're basicly setting yourself to becoming the emperor and the tenth divine. A Dragonborn has the same blood as a Dragon, in Elder scrolls a Dragons inherent nature is domination, ambition and conquering and the Dragonborn has this exact same nature due to having a Dragonsoul so he keeps finding positions of power and artifacts of power so he can dominate his opposition. The guilds in Skyrim do not inherently oppose each other the DB and Thieves Guild even cooperate at times. The Companions don't give a damn about the war and live more as individuals in the grand scheme of things they're insignificant, powerful and honored but without a big direction. The College is isolated and at least one College mage cooperates with the Thieves Guild. Magic is also frowned upon by the natives (Unless it's the voice) so the college is not generally liked. You can always just kill the Dark Brotherhood aswell if you refuse Astrid when she kidnaps you and kill her you get a quest to exterminate the DB after that.

So... I guess the problem in Skyrim is that there's a lot of overlap between faction allegiances and their political power in Skyrim that makes it so you always can join everything.

But really. When you add the companions, the thieves guild, the college, the Dark Bros and what you do in that, support the empire... you have a lot of power under you and with the factions generally having some overlap between themselves, the College and Companions not having aimed political power.

You gather quite an army that potentionally could work together with some lying and manipulation.

Emperor Tiber Septim was a Dragonborn and he managed to conquer all of Tamriel and become Talos of Atmora. The current Dragonborn even has the backing of one of the most powerful Daedric lords.

It's a lot of power under a person whose innate nature is to dominate, conquer and rule.

I'll be very disappointed if Bethesda does not make the Dragonborn the tenth divine or the next emperor... with an optional choice to refuse the position of course. Here's hoping for some Tenth Divine DLC. 

Edit: Uuuuh... I think I went on a tangent... and missed the point... but what the hell! I got to talk about Skyrim!

Modifié par Ziegrif, 05 avril 2013 - 11:36 .

[M Hedonist]

The ability to cut wood to sell it to the innkeeper.
Unless this one guy is busy cutting wood again. You know the one. The one who works for Belethor, at the general goods store.

[Ziegrif]

Sauruz wrote...

The ability to cut wood to sell it to the innkeeper.
Unless this one guy is busy cutting wood again. You know the one. The one who works for Belethor, at the general goods store.

Kill him.

Saves time.

[XX-Pyro]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

XX-Pyro wrote...

No, only Oblivion and Skyrim. Morrowind had you arriving by ship and Daggerfall you were sent by the Emperor. Never played Arena.

You start as a prisoner and the Emperor orders your release once you reach the land of Morrowind. That was made very clear as soon as you get off the boat start creating your character.

Yes but you're never in danger of being executed, I guess I was unclear. At least not that I was ever made aware of it's been a few years.

[M Hedonist]

Ziegrif wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

The ability to cut wood to sell it to the innkeeper.
Unless this one guy is busy cutting wood again. You know the one. The one who works for Belethor, at the general goods store.

Kill him.

Saves time.

open console -> click on him -> kill, leave console -> cut wood -> open console -> resurrect
I've done that so often I probably should've just killed him...

[Ziegrif]

Sauruz wrote...

Ziegrif wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

The ability to cut wood to sell it to the innkeeper.
Unless this one guy is busy cutting wood again. You know the one. The one who works for Belethor, at the general goods store.

Kill him.

Saves time.

open console -> click on him -> kill, leave console -> cut wood -> open console -> resurrect
I've done that so often I probably should've just killed him...

Ladies and Gents.
The Dragonborn!
Killing and resurrecting people just because they were in the way of his wood cutting!

Our hero.

They should take that aspect as a possible way to build the main character in DA:I.

Modifié par Ziegrif, 05 avril 2013 - 11:57 .

[Rawgrim]

Qistina wrote...

Skyrim succes is because of the hype, now it have been cool down and players have see through the illusion. Skyrim is just an enhanced Oblivion....

i have played Skyrim, it is boring...despite of the wonderful graphic, the game is empty....and actually it have the same formula with Oblivion...Escape from your captors, go to B, fetch something, return, then go the mountain....both are the same...

Oblivion
- escape from prison
- deliver Amulet to jauffery
- go to Kavatch to pick up Martin
- return to Jauffery
- go to Cloud Ruler Temple on the mountain....
- infiltrate Mythic Dawn base
- search some relic
- open a portal to "paradise"

Skyrim
- escape from Helgen
- go to Whiterun to meet the Jarl
- fetch Dragonstone at Bleak Fall barrow
- return to Whiterun becoming Dragonborn
- go to High Hrothgar on the mountain....
- infiltrate Thalmor embessy
- search some relic
- open the time wound

The story in TES is suck...the game is only about exploration, from point A to B you stumble upon something and quest activated, it just that...going to Rften, saw dragon on the way, kill dragon, continue, saw a cave, enter, fight vampires, continue...going to Windhelm, saw dragon on the way, kill dragon, and continue, then attacked by bandit, wolves, bears ect then continue....you may even forget to continue the quest at all and take no consequences

Dragon Age is not like that, so i don't know what is so great about Skyrim that Bioware look at....Dragon Age is far better than Skyrim

You have kind of missed the entire point of the Elder Scrolls games, I`m afraid. The games don\\ t have 1 story. It has alot of stories. Pick one you might find interesting, and play through it. Its not trying to be a bioware`ish game at all. TES games are about freedom, exploration, and whatsnot. Bioware games are more about a concentrated story.

As for the elder scrolls formula you pointed out. they are simmilar in Oblivion and Skyrim. But not in Arena, Daggerfall and Morrowind.

I`d like to point out one thing Bioware does repeatedly too.

1. Starting area with some quests and whatsnot. (Kotor, Neverwinter, Mass Effect 1, Dragon Age:O)
2. Go to 4 places and get something (4 plantets in Kotor, 4 city areas in neverwinter, planets in ME. 4 allies in DA:O
3. Do a large stand alone mission (Kotor, ME, DA:O)
4. Bossfight (all of the above)

Kind of simmilar too, if you look into it.

[Rawgrim]

Aolbain wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

 dialogue list,

Skyrim had dialogues?

Quite a few, actually. But your followers had pretty much no dialogue.

[Avalon The Elf]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

XX-Pyro wrote...

No, only Oblivion and Skyrim. Morrowind had you arriving by ship and Daggerfall you were sent by the Emperor. Never played Arena.

You start as a prisoner and the Emperor orders your release once you reach the land of Morrowind. That was made very clear as soon as you get off the boat start creating your character.

This, but he was right you aren't a prisoner in Daggerfall i don't think, i think the first dungeon in Daggerfall felt prison-esque though

[Plaintiff]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

The story in TES is being told over many games. One game's main story is about a specific event. They're all connected, and events are unfolding as is written in the Elder Scrolls.

And the events all unfold the exact same way, every time. It's just a matter of filling in the blanks.

And the faction questlines all play out the same way as previous faction questlines, right down to the player becoming the leader of said faction, after having been a member for all of two days.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 06 avril 2013 - 12:43 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Plaintiff wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

The story in TES is being told over many games. One game's main story is about a specific event. They're all connected, and events are unfolding as is written in the Elder Scrolls.

And the events all unfold the exact same way, every time. It's just a matter of filling in the blanks.

And the faction questlines all play out the same way as previous faction questlines, right down to the player becoming the leader of said faction, after having been a member for all of two days.

Well, it would be kind of lame if it took 50 hours just to become a guild master.

[Sundance31us]

Funny. I had to stop playing Skyrim and run through the Citadel DLC just the other day....Skyrim was quiet...too quiet.

On ther other hand maybe this means they'll have Claudia Christian do a character voice?

[Plaintiff]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

The story in TES is being told over many games. One game's main story is about a specific event. They're all connected, and events are unfolding as is written in the Elder Scrolls.

And the events all unfold the exact same way, every time. It's just a matter of filling in the blanks.

And the faction questlines all play out the same way as previous faction questlines, right down to the player becoming the leader of said faction, after having been a member for all of two days.

Well, it would be kind of lame if it took 50 hours just to become a guild master.

I don't think the player should be able to become a guild master at all. At least not in every single case.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Plaintiff wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

The story in TES is being told over many games. One game's main story is about a specific event. They're all connected, and events are unfolding as is written in the Elder Scrolls.

And the events all unfold the exact same way, every time. It's just a matter of filling in the blanks.

And the faction questlines all play out the same way as previous faction questlines, right down to the player becoming the leader of said faction, after having been a member for all of two days.

Well, it would be kind of lame if it took 50 hours just to become a guild master.

I don't think the player should be able to become a guild master at all. At least not in every single case.

I find that being Dragonborn is enough for me. The guilds are just an easy way for me to boost my stats in one direction or the other. If you're playing a specific build it helps you level up and improve those skills faster.