Aller au contenu

Photo

The Turian Saboteur is an excellent class. To me.


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
177 réponses à ce sujet

#1
DullahansXMark

DullahansXMark
  • Members
  • 9 557 messages
<Yes, there is a TL;DR at the bottom>

I can understand why most people wouldn't think so. I'm not here to tell you your opinion is wrong. I'm not even really here to try and change your mind on the matter. I'm simply going to say, I love the Saboteur. He's fun, and effective the way I use him. And now I'm going to go into why I think so. Because that's rather important.

First of all, my build:
http://narida.pytalh...enadeCapacity5/

(I personally pair Armor-Piercing IV rounds with this setup, but you can do whatever you wish, though I heavily suggest using AP)

You'll notice I don't take Fitness. Well, to put it bluntly, it really doesn't do anything that a Cyclonic Mod III or IV can't do, plus it takes away from valuable points from other abilities, which are all vital to his success.

Basically, the deal is this: he's a Combat Engineer. Meaning, he uses tech powers alongside weapons to deal his damage with utmost efficiency. It's hard to find a good weapon that meshes well with his character, but I have found the Argus Assault Rifle to fit this to a tee. The Saboteur is a close- to mid-range fighter. Meaning, you should never be far away from whatever you're trying to attack. Stay moderately close. The Argus lets you do this while still packing a hell of a punch (more details later). I pack the Acolyte as a sidearm in case I need to strip some shields off a big guy.

Also worth noting, is that the Saboteur more or less runs on two gears: he is either on Crowd Control and Elimination, or on Slow and Steady. What this means is, he can actually eliminate any given target really quickly, but this method (which will be indirectly explained later) can be a bit risky. If you're entering a high-risk situation (i.e. last man standing, two Banshees, one Marauder and one Brute are still on the map), you can easily fight in a way where the enemy won't even have a chance to significantly damage you, but it might take you a bit longer than it should to win. But you will win. It's kinda like having an interchangeable Collector Adept and Geth Juggernaut, albeit different in execution.

Now, to go into specifics:

I. Argus Assault Rifle: As I said in the brief summary, this is a close-to-mid-range weapon. The Argus, even on Gold, is very powerful. I use the Extended Barrel for even more damage (~376 per shot, and it fires three rounds at once). The Stability Damper might seem an odd choice to those unfamiliar with the Argus. Well, basically, it's this: the Argus KICKS. So much. Even if you have that Stability Damper on, it will still kick. If you take it off and put it on a Turian, it will still kick. Combine the two though? Perfect. The gun is beautiful. And best of all, it will keep you in range of your targets.

II. Acolyte Heavy Pistol: Okay, so it has ULM on it. I don't really expect anyone to agree with that decision, given how light the gun already is. I put it on there because I can feel the difference between a 3.57 sec cooldown in comparison to a 3.70 sec cooldown, and I don't like it. But that's beside the point. Since it already does my job cleanly as is (takes very few shots to strip a Banshee's barriers), I went ahead and also added a Power Magnifier onto it. You should primarily be sticking to the Argus, but when you do have the Acolyte equipped, you'll get a nice boost to your damage output. Nice.

III. Sentry Turret: So its base damage with this build is 153.75 damage per shot of a triple burst that occurs once every few seconds. So every burst, that little pew pew cannon does 461.25 damage. [sarcasm] Oh, I bet you're really impressed now! [/sarcasm] Well, this damage doubles for armor. 307.5 damage per shot (NOTE: CYONAN HAS TOLD ME THIS SUFFERS FROM ARMOR DAMAGE MITIGATION, so on Gold it's really more like 257.5 damage per shot) against armor equates to 922.5 damage per burst. Better? In addition, between bursts it shoots a rocket that does 615 damage against normal targets and 1230 damage against armored targets. So each full burst does 1076.25 to normal targets and 2152.5 to armored targets.

Still, that's not exactly a whole ton. But consider this: how often do you have to cast Sentry Turret? When you throw your Turret out, you're only exposed for all of a second. Then it's firing, and you're firing. You don't throw it out and just sit there. It's not your only form of damage. It merely adds more onto what you're already doing. And it adds on a considerable amount.

It has utility, too. You can throw it around corners to soften up targets before you can even get there yourself. And that Rocket has two nifty functions. The first is that it can potentially stun a target. The second is that it detonates Tech Bursts. That's right. That Rocket is capable of detonating Tech Bursts. If you're on a techie team this is invaluable.

In short: of course it sucks if you just leave it there. And... yeah, it's still a bit subpar, but it still does its job admirably. You have no idea how many Dragoons and Brutes this thing has saved me from.

IV. Sabotage: This skill is actually much more useful than it lets on, thanks to its Backfire function. On organic targets, Backfire does 487.5 (975 to shielded targets) damage once it activates, as well as primes for Tech Bursts. Now, that damage might not seem like much. Well... powers by themselves were never really well-known for doing much damage just on their own. Only a few powers actually do such things. Like, let's take Snap Freeze (the Paladin's. The AIU's Tactical Cheat is a bad example because Infiltrator). Using this build, I can do 617.5 points of damage every 2.61 seconds. Cool. Well, my Reegar Carbine X can do over 2000 damage every second to armored targets, and it has a negative multiplier against them. In the time it takes to recharge Snap Freeze I could have done over 5000 damage, which I would have had to interrupt to do... 617.5? So why use Snap Freeze? Is it because it has other utilities? That's precisely why.

Sabotage is rather unique. It's one of the few skills in the game that can stun twice per cast. On top of nearly 1000 damage to shields, this makes for a perfect break in between Argus bursts. Fire, Sabotage, stun, Fire, Backfire, stun, Fire, repeat. That's a pretty beautiful combination. And like I said before, that Backfire function primes for Tech Bursts, which can be detonated by Rocket Turret or Homing Grenades. Backfire doesn't work on synthetic targets, but it has a rather nifty function against them, which you should know. Let's just say, hacking a Cerberus Turret or Geth Pyro is a pretty wise option.

V. Homing Grenade: Okay, so I'll be the first to say, it has a rather sluggish travel time. However, unless you're doing it wrong, you shouldn't be that far away from the target anyway, which means the HGs should still get to the enemy pretty quickly. And when they do, they'll do rather handy amounts of damage. However, even with that this would still be a rather annoying issue. So what do you do? Take Split Grenade. You can cast it into midair and it'll still usually manage to find a target because of the way it tracks. It can hit two separate targets, and if you take the Burning Damage it'll also make some enemies start panicking. If it doesn't though? They'll still stagger back. BOTH enemies.

Also, Homing Grenade can detonate Tech Bursts, which you can set up with Sabotage's Backfire function. Nifty!

Final Notes: If you play it right (and assuming Homing Grenade and Rocket Turret aren't being rebellious) you can have four enemies stunlocked at once. Keep in mind, there are only eight enemies on the map at any given time. To put it bluntly, you alone can turn half the map into a joke.

TL;DR: Is he an Infiltrator? No. Is he a TSol? No. Is he a Kroguard? No. But is he a bad class? Far from it. At least, to me. Several BSNers have seen me play him by now, and they all seemed rather impressed. If he's not your cup of tea, then that's okay. If you want to go on thinking he's bad, then that's okay too. But at least try him this way before you resign yourself to this opinion. Because I was actually rather impressed by how effective it was. And I think you will be, too. (and while you're at it, check out Pyroninja42's Destroyer Shocktrooper build, as that's pretty damn good, too, as I was pleasantly surprised to learn.)

TTL;DRITL;DR: He's good. Just rather awkward to work with. And I think this is what gets most people.

Modifié par DullahansXMark, 04 avril 2013 - 10:49 .


#2
Tokenusername

Tokenusername
  • Members
  • 11 157 messages
Ok then.

#3
Lars10178

Lars10178
  • Members
  • 688 messages
Still haven't unlocked him

#4
DullahansXMark

DullahansXMark
  • Members
  • 9 557 messages

Tokenusername wrote...

Ok then.


Not even gonna poke holes this time?

#5
DullahansXMark

DullahansXMark
  • Members
  • 9 557 messages

Lars10178 wrote...

Still haven't unlocked him


According to most people, you don't want to.

And you might feel that way once you try him out. But hey, he's kind of a weird one. Kinda like the Slayer, except more recycled.

#6
Lars10178

Lars10178
  • Members
  • 688 messages
I want the Ghost most of all, but I haven't gotten any characters since the asari valkyrie and Collector adept

#7
DullahansXMark

DullahansXMark
  • Members
  • 9 557 messages

Lars10178 wrote...

I want the Ghost most of all, but I haven't gotten any characters since the asari valkyrie and Collector adept


You've been purchasing Reserves Packs, right? I mean, I'm sure you are, but... sounds like you're rather unlucky if you are.

And if you aren't, you should :devil:

#8
sbdkv

sbdkv
  • Members
  • 29 messages
Your TLDR is TL ^_^

#9
Thrasher91604

Thrasher91604
  • Members
  • 1 367 messages
Also it doesn't properly summarize build/playstyle. ;)

#10
DullahansXMark

DullahansXMark
  • Members
  • 9 557 messages

sbdkv wrote...

Your TLDR is TL ^_^


Added a TTL;DRITL;DR (The Too Long Didn't Read is Too Long, [so I] Didn't Read) for you :devil:

#11
Happy Shepard

Happy Shepard
  • Members
  • 2 607 messages
His power synergy sucks.

I still like him and my TBs + shoot stuff biuld works quite well. He's a Turian after all.

#12
DullahansXMark

DullahansXMark
  • Members
  • 9 557 messages

Thrasher91604 wrote...

Also it doesn't properly summarize build/playstyle. ;)


If you have questions I can answer them. Although I think the playstyle is something that should be treated as more subjective than objective, I can more or less summarize it as this: Throw Turret into middle of enemy group. Sabotage an enemy. Fire Homing Grenades. Get behind cover. Fire into the group. Sabotage another target. Keep firing. Walk away like a boss.

#13
DullahansXMark

DullahansXMark
  • Members
  • 9 557 messages

Happy Shepard wrote...

His power synergy sucks.

I still like him and my TBs + shoot stuff biuld works quite well. He's a Turian after all.


I have to ask though, are you saying that on the grounds of combo detonations or just simply how well the powers mesh together in terms of utility?

I've heard this tossed around frequently, but I'm not sure what people are referring to.

#14
sbdkv

sbdkv
  • Members
  • 29 messages

DullahansXMark wrote...

sbdkv wrote...

Your TLDR is TL ^_^


Added a TTL;DRITL;DR (The Too Long Didn't Read is Too Long, [so I] Didn't Read) for you :devil:


Lol thanks.  Will give your entire post a go after I get off work.  I think he's good if you see him as a weapons platform with added bits of utility from turret & sabo (i dislike the grenade)

#15
TJLenz

TJLenz
  • Members
  • 1 138 messages
I agree with your TTL;DRITL;DR

#16
megabeast37215

megabeast37215
  • Members
  • 13 626 messages
I'll give it a shot. Store is trolling me for respec cards at the moment... but at least it's giving me AR Rail Amp IIIs

#17
DullahansXMark

DullahansXMark
  • Members
  • 9 557 messages

sbdkv wrote...

DullahansXMark wrote...

sbdkv wrote...

Your TLDR is TL ^_^


Added a TTL;DRITL;DR (The Too Long Didn't Read is Too Long, [so I] Didn't Read) for you :devil:


Lol thanks.  Will give your entire post a go after I get off work.  I think he's good if you see him as a weapons platform with added bits of utility from turret & sabo (i dislike the grenade)


That's the biggest obstacle when utilizing this guy. You have to find that perfect balance between powers and weapons. It's absolutely imperative you do so to make this guy effective.

And thanks ^_^

#18
RamsenC

RamsenC
  • Members
  • 1 799 messages
My problem with him is hes a grenade caster with a slow grenade. You can run around and bomb spawns so much faster with Drell Adept, Bat Adept, Krogan Soldier, and MQE. Deploying a turret for every encounter also slow this down. He's not bad per se he's just slow (which you mention).

#19
Tokenusername

Tokenusername
  • Members
  • 11 157 messages

DullahansXMark wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

Ok then.


Not even gonna poke holes this time?

Do I usually poke you in the holes? :huh:

#20
DullahansXMark

DullahansXMark
  • Members
  • 9 557 messages

RamsenC wrote...

My problem with him is hes a grenade caster with a slow grenade. You can run around and bomb spawns so much faster with Drell Adept, Bat Adept, Krogan Soldier, and MQE. Deploying a turret for every encounter also slow this down. He's not bad per se he's just slow (which you mention).


He can be fast if you get closer. Also, I should've mentioned where you should be throwing the Turret, which I'll correct in a second. Basically, throw it into open areas, not necessarily a group of enemies. You'll have to recast it less, it'll hit more stuff with the Rocket if you do it right... and some other third thing to complete the Rule of Three.

#21
ROBOTICSUPERMAN

ROBOTICSUPERMAN
  • Members
  • 2 658 messages
DullahansXMark, you are now one of the few people who can turian saboteur. well done.
I still don't really get why people think he's one of the worst characters. neither him, or the vorcha hunter are bad, they are merely as good as the player controlling them.

also are you sure that the sentry turret rocket detonates tech bursts? I have heard this before, but cyonan disagrees...

#22
DullahansXMark

DullahansXMark
  • Members
  • 9 557 messages

Tokenusername wrote...

DullahansXMark wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

Ok then.


Not even gonna poke holes this time?

Do I usually poke you in the holes? :huh:


Hey, take it easy. We'll bang ok?

#23
DullahansXMark

DullahansXMark
  • Members
  • 9 557 messages

ROBOTICSUPERMAN wrote...

DullahansXMark, you are now one of the few people who can turian saboteur. well done.
I still don't really get why people think he's one of the worst characters. neither him, or the vorcha hunter are bad, they are merely as good as the player controlling them.

also are you sure that the sentry turret rocket detonates tech bursts? I have heard this before, but cyonan disagrees...


I might've seen something different than my mind registered. As far as I know, I was alone at the time. I still had teammates up, but I think they were at different points in the map. I threw a Turret out. I shot a Cannibal with Sabotage. Backfire kicked in. Then the Turret shot him with a Rocket, and he dropped dead. And the killfeed read "DullahansXMark [Tech Burst] Cannibal". I didn't see anyone else going after him with powers (which I would have seen, you know? Even Concussive Shot has a nice glowing effect as it flies through the air, and it was on Condor, which is hella dark.).

Disregarding that, I actually loved him the day he came out. Me and INVADERONE played together that day and were amazed at how awesome he was. Later I came on the forums to see if anyone else was as amazed as I was... only to see that almost no one else thought so. It was pretty weird, to say the least.

I can see how people could consider the Vorcha Hunter bad given his general weakness to armored/shielded (the two together, not one or the other) targets, but he's all about wasting the small guys. Which he does excellently.

I'll confess that I never really figured out the Volus Mercenary, so I just kinda write him off as such for now, so I've yet to conclude whether or not he really is good or bad. (he's amazing against Geth from what I can tell, but lacking against others.)

#24
Miniditka77

Miniditka77
  • Members
  • 4 490 messages
The Turian Saboteur is objectively not an excellent class.  His powers just aren't good enough, and have very little synergy.  It isn't possible for him to perform as well as many other classes in the hands of an equally skilled player.

That said, all classes are viable on all levels, and all classes can be played effectively.  If the OP is effective with the Saboteur and finds using the Saboteur to be fun, then by all means - use the Saboteur.  I think saying that the class is "excellent to me" is poor wording though.  It isn't excellent.  Just say, "I like the Turian Saboteur."

#25
Robbiesan

Robbiesan
  • Members
  • 2 543 messages
with you on this. I agree he is a great character. I do usually go passives in fitness, but yeah, a CM is really all you need. and also, I agree, AP ammo!