177 réponses à ce sujet

[Robbiesan]

oh, yeah, and although the turret is not huge damage per se, it does quite well in distracting, priming, and making extra kills. I use in a similar fashion to the CE drone. So long as the enemy is busy with my little buddy, all the better.

[DullahansXMark]

Miniditka77 wrote...

The Turian Saboteur is objectively not an excellent class.  His powers just aren't good enough, and have very little synergy.  It isn't possible for him to perform as well as many other classes in the hands of an equally skilled player.

That said, all classes are viable on all levels, and all classes can be played effectively.  If the OP is effective with the Saboteur and finds using the Saboteur to be fun, then by all means - use the Saboteur.  I think saying that the class is "excellent to me" is poor wording though.  It isn't excellent.  Just say, "I like the Turian Saboteur."

What if I told you he's one of my best classes? I can play him much better than a GI, than an AIU (yeah, I went there), than a Havoc... the list goes on.

He's not a "just4fun" class for me, he's actually one of my go-to "I'm gonna kick some ass" classes. He happens to be one of the most fun of those classes, too.

So yes, to me he is an excellent class. Just like the FQE is an excellent class for M1A2 Abrams Tank (which I'll never understand, but I don't have to. I've seen him roll.)

[DullahansXMark]

Robbiesan wrote...

oh, yeah, and although the turret is not huge damage per se, it does quite well in distracting, priming, and making extra kills. I use in a similar fashion to the CE drone. So long as the enemy is busy with my little buddy, all the better.

I'm aware of this function, but it's funny that I can never actually get that to work. But hey, if it's working for you, then even better!

... lucky you

[CSRB]

Anyone who claims to notice a 0.13 difference in cooldown and waste a mod on reducing it should not be taken seriously.

[DullahansXMark]

CSRB wrote...

Anyone who claims to notice a 0.13 difference in cooldown and waste a mod on reducing it should not be taken seriously.

What else am I gonna put on it? I don't need an Extended Barrel, it already one-clips a Banshee's Barriers. And I don't need an Extended Clip on it, because... well, it already one-clips a Banshee's Barriers.

And yes, I can notice such things, given that a tenth of a second is actually pretty meaningful in this game. But if Ad Hominem logical fallacies work for you, then power to you.

[Miniditka77]

DullahansXMark wrote...

Happy Shepard wrote...

His power synergy sucks.

I still like him and my TBs + shoot stuff biuld works quite well. He's a Turian after all.

I have to ask though, are you saying that on the grounds of combo detonations or just simply how well the powers mesh together in terms of utility?

I've heard this tossed around frequently, but I'm not sure what people are referring to.

Both.  His combo detonations take forever to set up and can't be spammed, due to Homing Grenades' long travel time and "dodgeability" and Sabotage's cooldown time.  And he can only detonate Tech Bursts, which are much more effective against mooks (who tend to dodge Homing Grenades, if they aren't dead by the time the grenades get there anyway).

As far as utility goes, there is no connection between his powers.  Sabotage's tech vulnerability doesn't affect Homing Grenades or Turret damage.  The only synergy he has is as a melee character, and the fact that he doesn't have Stim Packs like the other Armiger Turians takes away from that synergy.

[Cyonan]

Should probably point out you're a tad off on the Sentry Turret armour numbers.

The Sentry Turret's main attack is affected by armour mitigation in the same way our guns are. With AP Rounds it's still affected by the full amount of mitigation, but it also hits a second time which is not mitigated.

AP Rounds does not affect either the rocket or the flamethrower(they're also not reduced by armour like the main gun is).

Modifié par Cyonan, 04 avril 2013 - 10:35 .

[CSRB]

DullahansXMark wrote...

CSRB wrote...

Anyone who claims to notice a 0.13 difference in cooldown and waste a mod on reducing it should not be taken seriously.

What else am I gonna put on it? I don't need an Extended Barrel, it already one-clips a Banshee's Barriers. And I don't need an Extended Clip on it, because... well, it already one-clips a Banshee's Barriers.

And yes, I can notice such things, given that a tenth of a second is actually pretty meaningful in this game. But if Ad Hominem logical fallacies work for you, then power to you.

It is not ad hominem. I'm criticising your argument and therefore you should not be taken seriously for making a silly claim.

And seriously? 'Logical fallacies'? I don't even. Logic is clearly not your forté.

Modifié par CSRB, 04 avril 2013 - 10:37 .

[Miniditka77]

DullahansXMark wrote...

What if I told you he's one of my best classes? I can play him much better than a GI, than an AIU (yeah, I went there), than a Havoc... the list goes on.

He's not a "just4fun" class for me, he's actually one of my go-to "I'm gonna kick some ass" classes. He happens to be one of the most fun of those classes, too.

So yes, to me he is an excellent class. Just like the FQE is an excellent class for M1A2 Abrams Tank (which I'll never understand, but I don't have to. I've seen him roll.)

I would say you are either lying, or you haven't practiced enough with the GI or the AIU (probably the latter).

Modifié par Miniditka77, 04 avril 2013 - 10:36 .

[Happy Shepard]

DullahansXMark wrote...

Happy Shepard wrote...

His power synergy sucks.

I still like him and my TBs + shoot stuff biuld works quite well. He's a Turian after all.

I have to ask though, are you saying that on the grounds of combo detonations or just simply how well the powers mesh together in terms of utility?

I've heard this tossed around frequently, but I'm not sure what people are referring to.

Both.

The window to do a FE primed by the ST's Flamethrower is too short and you have to consider that HGs have an incredibly long travel time. Not to forget that the flamethrower is not a reliable primer. You might not get the FE for various reason: a) somebody already killed the primed target, the flamethrower didn't even prime the target and c) the "panic" effect which primes for FEs has already ended before the HG hits the target. 

The TBs are the only combo that's good on him because of Tech Vulnerability. I think they're quite effective when combined with Backfire and powerful weapons. But the combo is entirely dependant on the Backfire damage which will be a problem against Geth or an Atlas. The problem here is, you have to choose between Sabotage for TBs/Backfire or to hack synthetics. The Saboteur has to gimp himself against 1/4 or 3/4 of the factions. 

Another problem is ammo primed combos. You'd have to use a grenade every time you do a FE, CE or TB. I guess you could use a Falcon to prime multiple enemies and then detonate with split Homingnades, but again, you'd have to be constantly visiting ammo boxes or using Thermal Clip Packs for grenades and your combos would be weak.

Imo, utility is a bit subjective. For you it might be helpful to have a Sentry Turret firing rockets and distracting some Phantoms, while i think it's the most useless power/pet in the game. Well and Decoy. 

But his power synergy also sucks in terms of combining powers for raw damage. No powers boost each other like Cryo Blast that can make Incerinate stronger or how BC boosts Nova, Liftnades, Phase Disruptor etc.. That's probably where the big disappointment comes from because everybody assumed that Tech Vulnerability would boost Homingnade's and Sentry Turret's (*) damage, but unfortunately it doesn't. 

Oh and this isn't technically part of "power synergy", but his power damage bonuses are weak compared to other casters. 

*Forgot to mention that the Shock evo actually benefits from Tech Vulnerability. 

Modifié par Happy Shepard, 04 avril 2013 - 10:44 .

[DHKany]

hmmm.
Might give this a go but with the Saber instead.

[DullahansXMark]

Cyonan wrote...

Should probably point out you're a tad off on the Sentry Turret armour numbers.

The Sentry Turret's main attack is affected by armour mitigation in the same way our guns are. With AP Rounds it's still affected by the full amount of mitigation, but it also hits a second time which is not mitigated.

AP Rounds does not affect either the rocket or the flamethrower(they're also not reduced by armour like the main gun is).

I really wish this was reflected in the Narida class builder.

[DullahansXMark]

Miniditka77 wrote...

DullahansXMark wrote...

What if I told you he's one of my best classes? I can play him much better than a GI, than an AIU (yeah, I went there), than a Havoc... the list goes on.

He's not a "just4fun" class for me, he's actually one of my go-to "I'm gonna kick some ass" classes. He happens to be one of the most fun of those classes, too.

So yes, to me he is an excellent class. Just like the FQE is an excellent class for M1A2 Abrams Tank (which I'll never understand, but I don't have to. I've seen him roll.)

I would say you are either lying, or you haven't practiced enough with the GI or the AIU (probably the latter).

But what about the Havoc? He's one of my favorite classes to use, and I still use this one better.

[Cyonan]

DullahansXMark wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Should probably point out you're a tad off on the Sentry Turret armour numbers.

The Sentry Turret's main attack is affected by armour mitigation in the same way our guns are. With AP Rounds it's still affected by the full amount of mitigation, but it also hits a second time which is not mitigated.

AP Rounds does not affect either the rocket or the flamethrower(they're also not reduced by armour like the main gun is).

I really wish this was reflected in the Narida class builder.

I imagine that would have helped =P

Also for the guy saying that noticing a 0.13 second change is a silly claim, it's rather easily noticed if you get used to a very specific cooldown.

I vary my setups too much to get it on ME3, but I could notice even small changes in my GCD back when I played WoW because I knew the exact length it should take. I didn't need to look at the top right of my screen to be able to tell you that I had recieved either a haste buff or debuff.

[Tallgeese_VII]

I still wouldn`t say he is excellent...

[Lord Nutfork]

I only recently unlocked him and used him only a few times... So, this is good info.

I have a question...I can't figured out how to use Sabotage. I currentlly use it like Overload... I hit them with Sabotage and then start firing head shots while they are staggered by it.

How do I hack synthetics and turrets? Do I Sabotage them and then wait to see if they shoot me? Or do they change color or something?

Thanks!

[ROBOTICSUPERMAN]

Miniditka77 wrote...

DullahansXMark wrote...

What if I told you he's one of my best classes? I can play him much better than a GI, than an AIU (yeah, I went there), than a Havoc... the list goes on.

He's not a "just4fun" class for me, he's actually one of my go-to "I'm gonna kick some ass" classes. He happens to be one of the most fun of those classes, too.

So yes, to me he is an excellent class. Just like the FQE is an excellent class for M1A2 Abrams Tank (which I'll never understand, but I don't have to. I've seen him roll.)

I would say you are either lying, or you haven't practiced enough with the GI or the AIU (probably the latter).

I got to agree with dullahans here, it is really easy to have to solo a few waves because of bad pugs, with no effort required.

[DullahansXMark]

CSRB wrote...

DullahansXMark wrote...

CSRB wrote...

Anyone who claims to notice a 0.13 difference in cooldown and waste a mod on reducing it should not be taken seriously.

What else am I gonna put on it? I don't need an Extended Barrel, it already one-clips a Banshee's Barriers. And I don't need an Extended Clip on it, because... well, it already one-clips a Banshee's Barriers.

And yes, I can notice such things, given that a tenth of a second is actually pretty meaningful in this game. But if Ad Hominem logical fallacies work for you, then power to you.

It is not ad hominem. I'm criticising your argument and therefore you should not be taken seriously for making a silly claim.

And seriously? 'Logical fallacies'? I don't even. Logic is clearly not your forté.

Two things: one, I explicitly stated that you'll probably disagree with my use of the ULM (which you did) and to go ahead and use something else if you wish, and two, you're painting me a fool for taking a course of action which, by the way, I did say was easily interchangeable if you don't agree with me, which as I just previously stated, would probably be the case. You're also making an overgeneralization by telling everyone that because I said one thing not to your taste (which, I'll repeat for emphasis, I said you could alter for something else), everything else I said should not be taken seriously.

That was also an ad hominem right there. You're attacking me instead of the argument I made, stating that the other mods really aren't necessary and thus I can afford to "waste" a mod slot on shortening my cooldowns a bit. Where'd the counterargument to that go? You were too busy accusing me of being "silly", that's where.

So I'm sorry. You're not just fallacious. You're also ignorant.

[DHKany]

Lord Nutfork wrote...

I only recently unlocked him and used him only a few times... So, this is good info.

I have a question...I can't figured out how to use Sabotage. I currentlly use it like Overload... I hit them with Sabotage and then start firing head shots while they are staggered by it.

How do I hack synthetics and turrets? Do I Sabotage them and then wait to see if they shoot me? Or do they change color or something?

Thanks!

Sabotge is supposed to do it automatically but it takes a ridiculous amount of time to 'hack'. 
Before I used sabotage as a pure stagger utility power I hated it cause I would sabotage a Geth Missile Glitcher and it would still nail me with three rockets before shooting at its allies for 3 seconds and then turning back. 

[DullahansXMark]

Lord Nutfork wrote...

I only recently unlocked him and used him only a few times... So, this is good info.

I have a question...I can't figured out how to use Sabotage. I currentlly use it like Overload... I hit them with Sabotage and then start firing head shots while they are staggered by it.

How do I hack synthetics and turrets? Do I Sabotage them and then wait to see if they shoot me? Or do they change color or something?

Thanks!

It's as simple as just hitting them with Sabotage. Do it (it won't work after the third time), and they'll fight for your cause for 10-15 seconds (it tells you in the power description). However, don't bother with Atlases or Primes. They'll break out of your control faster than you can recharge.

[Cyonan]

Lord Nutfork wrote...

I only recently unlocked him and used him only a few times... So, this is good info.

I have a question...I can't figured out how to use Sabotage. I currentlly use it like Overload... I hit them with Sabotage and then start firing head shots while they are staggered by it.

How do I hack synthetics and turrets? Do I Sabotage them and then wait to see if they shoot me? Or do they change color or something?

Thanks!

They should have a light orange glow around them while hacked. It's not that noticable but it's there.

The thing with hacking synthetics is that they're always going to finish their current action which if that is trying to kill you they're going to keep trying to kill you until they finish their current burst of fire.

To use the Cerberus Turret as an example, the best time to Sabotage it is while it's not firing. If you Sabotage it while it's in the middle of firing at you it will finish out that burst on you, then proceed to target something else. The duration timer will begin as soon as you cast the ability however so you'll have wasted some of it.

[Happy Shepard]

DHKany wrote...

Lord Nutfork wrote...

I only recently unlocked him and used him only a few times... So, this is good info.

I have a question...I can't figured out how to use Sabotage. I currentlly use it like Overload... I hit them with Sabotage and then start firing head shots while they are staggered by it.

How do I hack synthetics and turrets? Do I Sabotage them and then wait to see if they shoot me? Or do they change color or something?

Thanks!

Sabotge is supposed to do it automatically but it takes a ridiculous amount of time to 'hack'. 
Before I used sabotage as a pure stagger utility power I hated it cause I would sabotage a Geth Missile Glitcher and it would still nail me with three rockets before shooting at its allies for 3 seconds and then turning back. 

It wasn't always like this. I remember when Sabotage took only 2 seconds to "hack". That was before BioWare nerfed it and now we have to wait 8 seconds. 

[ROBOTICSUPERMAN]

Lord Nutfork wrote...

I only recently unlocked him and used him only a few times... So, this is good info.

I have a question...I can't figured out how to use Sabotage. I currentlly use it like Overload... I hit them with Sabotage and then start firing head shots while they are staggered by it.

How do I hack synthetics and turrets? Do I Sabotage them and then wait to see if they shoot me? Or do they change color or something?

Thanks!

yep sabotage synthetics just like you would overload them.

hacked enemies glow a gold tinted colour.

[DHKany]

Happy Shepard wrote...

DHKany wrote...

Lord Nutfork wrote...

I only recently unlocked him and used him only a few times... So, this is good info.

I have a question...I can't figured out how to use Sabotage. I currentlly use it like Overload... I hit them with Sabotage and then start firing head shots while they are staggered by it.

How do I hack synthetics and turrets? Do I Sabotage them and then wait to see if they shoot me? Or do they change color or something?

Thanks!

Sabotge is supposed to do it automatically but it takes a ridiculous amount of time to 'hack'. 
Before I used sabotage as a pure stagger utility power I hated it cause I would sabotage a Geth Missile Glitcher and it would still nail me with three rockets before shooting at its allies for 3 seconds and then turning back. 

It wasn't always like this. I remember when Sabotage took only 2 seconds to "hack". That was before BioWare nerfed it and now we have to wait 8 seconds. 

I remember too. FQI Geth Bronze Glacier, a week or two after release. I had to do nothing as the Geth just fought each other. 

[DullahansXMark]

Cyonan wrote...

Lord Nutfork wrote...

I only recently unlocked him and used him only a few times... So, this is good info.

I have a question...I can't figured out how to use Sabotage. I currentlly use it like Overload... I hit them with Sabotage and then start firing head shots while they are staggered by it.

How do I hack synthetics and turrets? Do I Sabotage them and then wait to see if they shoot me? Or do they change color or something?

Thanks!

They should have a light orange glow around them while hacked. It's not that noticable but it's there.

The thing with hacking synthetics is that they're always going to finish their current action which if that is trying to kill you they're going to keep trying to kill you until they finish their current burst of fire.

To use the Cerberus Turret as an example, the best time to Sabotage it is while it's not firing. If you Sabotage it while it's in the middle of firing at you it will finish out that burst on you, then proceed to target something else. The duration timer will begin as soon as you cast the ability however so you'll have wasted some of it.

So it's a good idea to stun them with Sabotage? I notice that it stuns on contact sometimes. And since stunning interrupts their current action, if Sabotage stuns them, they'll immediately start working for you? I know this won't apply to everything (Turrets), but if this is true it seems like that'd be a good telltale sign that it worked.

I kinda already figured this, but since the Saboteur has some very complicated powers, it'd be good to get some confirmation.