177 réponses à ce sujet

[Cyonan]

Happy Shepard wrote...

DHKany wrote...

Lord Nutfork wrote...

I only recently unlocked him and used him only a few times... So, this is good info.

I have a question...I can't figured out how to use Sabotage. I currentlly use it like Overload... I hit them with Sabotage and then start firing head shots while they are staggered by it.

How do I hack synthetics and turrets? Do I Sabotage them and then wait to see if they shoot me? Or do they change color or something?

Thanks!

Sabotge is supposed to do it automatically but it takes a ridiculous amount of time to 'hack'. 
Before I used sabotage as a pure stagger utility power I hated it cause I would sabotage a Geth Missile Glitcher and it would still nail me with three rockets before shooting at its allies for 3 seconds and then turning back. 

It wasn't always like this. I remember when Sabotage took only 2 seconds to "hack". That was before BioWare nerfed it and now we have to wait 8 seconds. 

That's time before other Geth will attack a hacked target, not the time before your target becomes hacked.

[ClydeInTheShell]

I will now remove the bubble wrap from my Turian Saboteur and give him a shot. Mostly because of this thread; I have a lot of kits that I haven't gotten to play because I get clingy when I find sh*t I like. I won't, however, play with an abacus handy.  

[DHKany]

DullahansXMark wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Lord Nutfork wrote...

I only recently unlocked him and used him only a few times... So, this is good info.

I have a question...I can't figured out how to use Sabotage. I currentlly use it like Overload... I hit them with Sabotage and then start firing head shots while they are staggered by it.

How do I hack synthetics and turrets? Do I Sabotage them and then wait to see if they shoot me? Or do they change color or something?

Thanks!

They should have a light orange glow around them while hacked. It's not that noticable but it's there.

The thing with hacking synthetics is that they're always going to finish their current action which if that is trying to kill you they're going to keep trying to kill you until they finish their current burst of fire.

To use the Cerberus Turret as an example, the best time to Sabotage it is while it's not firing. If you Sabotage it while it's in the middle of firing at you it will finish out that burst on you, then proceed to target something else. The duration timer will begin as soon as you cast the ability however so you'll have wasted some of it.

So it's a good idea to stun them with Sabotage? I notice that it stuns on contact sometimes. And since stunning interrupts their current action, if Sabotage stuns them, they'll immediately start working for you? I know this won't apply to everything (Turrets), but if this is true it seems like that'd be a good telltale sign that it worked.

I kinda already figured this, but since the Saboteur has some very complicated powers, it'd be good to get some confirmation.

Sabotage takes forever to actually 'hack' from what I've esperienced with the FQI. 

[HoochieHamiltoe]

Why not just put 4 in Sabotage and 4 in Fitness? That way you don't have to always put on a Cyclon 3 or 4 every time.

[RamsenC]

HoochieHamiltoe wrote...

Why not just put 4 in Sabotage and 4 in Fitness? That way you don't have to always put on a Cyclon 3 or 4 every time.

That would hurt your tech burst damage. 

[mybudgee]

Agreed. I love the Turi-Sab

[DullahansXMark]

HoochieHamiltoe wrote...

Why not just put 4 in Sabotage and 4 in Fitness? That way you don't have to always put on a Cyclon 3 or 4 every time.

That could actually work, but it's nice to have Tech Vulnerability should you ever encounter a Vorcha Soldier/Sentinel or a Geth Trooper. Seriously, their Flamers kill SO much faster with TV active.

And when in doubt, CyclonMod I's work well, too. Just, it won't completely compensate for a lack of Fitness, is all. Good recommendation nevertheless. I'll give it a shot sometime.

[Guywhoiam]

While I don't use your build, Dullahans, I also love the Saboteur and am glad to see that someone else does.

[ALTBOULI]

He's a Turian so he bound to be a solid character overall - I actually prefer him to the Ghost but I just think what ever this guy can do the GE can do better. I rate the GE, Talon and Quarian Male as better engineers than the Sabouteur.

Then again I dont think I have specced him very well so I might not be getting the best out of him.

[Cyonan]

DullahansXMark wrote...

So it's a good idea to stun them with Sabotage? I notice that it stuns on contact sometimes. And since stunning interrupts their current action, if Sabotage stuns them, they'll immediately start working for you? I know this won't apply to everything (Turrets), but if this is true it seems like that'd be a good telltale sign that it worked.

I kinda already figured this, but since the Saboteur has some very complicated powers, it'd be good to get some confirmation.

If you can stun them it's best to do that, yeah. Sabotage itself is not likely to stagger a synthetic that you hack however. Sabotage has 2 chances to stagger which are:

> When first applied it can stagger based on force. It doesn't do a lot of force however and I've failed to stagger even a Centurion with this on my Saboteur. The FQI has a better time since Tactical Cloak increases force.
> On organics when the backfire goes off, you get the electrical shock effect that Overload(even without Neural Shock), Energy Drain, Arc Grenade. etc. all have where it will stun any unprotected targets.

The main issue with relying on Sabotage to stagger your hacked target is that it has an abysmally low amount of base force which is the only stagger chance you get on a hacked target, and the Saboteur can't boost it enough to stagger much beyond the cannon fodder Troopers.

Modifié par Cyonan, 04 avril 2013 - 11:06 .

[Happy Shepard]

Cyonan wrote...

Happy Shepard wrote...

DHKany wrote...

Lord Nutfork wrote...

I only recently unlocked him and used him only a few times... So, this is good info.

I have a question...I can't figured out how to use Sabotage. I currentlly use it like Overload... I hit them with Sabotage and then start firing head shots while they are staggered by it.

How do I hack synthetics and turrets? Do I Sabotage them and then wait to see if they shoot me? Or do they change color or something?

Thanks!

Sabotge is supposed to do it automatically but it takes a ridiculous amount of time to 'hack'. 
Before I used sabotage as a pure stagger utility power I hated it cause I would sabotage a Geth Missile Glitcher and it would still nail me with three rockets before shooting at its allies for 3 seconds and then turning back. 

It wasn't always like this. I remember when Sabotage took only 2 seconds to "hack". That was before BioWare nerfed it and now we have to wait 8 seconds. 

That's time before other Geth will attack a hacked target, not the time before your target becomes hacked.

Just checked. You're right. I always thought it was the delay before the target attacks other Geth. Apparently my reading comprehension isn't as good as i thought. Derp.

But it happens sometimes that Geth (mostly Hunters and Rocket Troopers) don't move or attack for a few seconds after they're hacked. In this case they're not finishing any attacks against me or teammates either. They just stand there and...do nothing. 

Modifié par Happy Shepard, 04 avril 2013 - 11:08 .

[CSRB]

DullahansXMark wrote...

CSRB wrote...

DullahansXMark wrote...

CSRB wrote...

Anyone who claims to notice a 0.13 difference in cooldown and waste a mod on reducing it should not be taken seriously.

What else am I gonna put on it? I don't need an Extended Barrel, it already one-clips a Banshee's Barriers. And I don't need an Extended Clip on it, because... well, it already one-clips a Banshee's Barriers.

And yes, I can notice such things, given that a tenth of a second is actually pretty meaningful in this game. But if Ad Hominem logical fallacies work for you, then power to you.

It is not ad hominem. I'm criticising your argument and therefore you should not be taken seriously for making a silly claim.

And seriously? 'Logical fallacies'? I don't even. Logic is clearly not your forté.

Two things: one, I explicitly stated that you'll probably disagree with my use of the ULM (which you did) and to go ahead and use something else if you wish, and two, you're painting me a fool for taking a course of action which, by the way, I did say was easily interchangeable if you don't agree with me, which as I just previously stated, would probably be the case. You're also making an overgeneralization by telling everyone that because I said one thing not to your taste (which, I'll repeat for emphasis, I said you could alter for something else), everything else I said should not be taken seriously.

That was also an ad hominem right there. You're attacking me instead of the argument I made, stating that the other mods really aren't necessary and thus I can afford to "waste" a mod slot on shortening my cooldowns a bit. Where'd the counterargument to that go? You were too busy accusing me of being "silly", that's where.

So I'm sorry. You're not just fallacious. You're also ignorant.

LOL. Just LOL. Especially that last line.

[Cyonan]

Also a few extra notes on Sabotage:

> Tech Vulnerability does not increase the damage of the Sentry Turret or Homing Grenade, but it does increase the Backfire damage. Damage increase is a debuff and thus is multiplicative.
> Tech Vulnerability will also increase the damage of a tech burst primed by Sabotage itself.
> TV also increases melee damage of the Disruptor Omni-Blade(FQI uses it, among others) and the Turian Armiger Heavy Melee. There's an entire list of melee attacks it can affect around here somewhere but I don't have it saved.
> Organics do not need a weapon in order to be hit by Backfire damage. It will happen 1.5 seconds after being hit with it regardless of if they have fired or even have a gun at all.

Modifié par Cyonan, 04 avril 2013 - 11:10 .

[TheKillerAngel]

 I can do well with him, even carry a match with the kit, but I still wouldn't call it "good." It's more like me squeezing every bit of use out of his abilities.

[Miniditka77]

DullahansXMark wrote...

Miniditka77 wrote...

DullahansXMark wrote...

What if I told you he's one of my best classes? I can play him much better than a GI, than an AIU (yeah, I went there), than a Havoc... the list goes on.

He's not a "just4fun" class for me, he's actually one of my go-to "I'm gonna kick some ass" classes. He happens to be one of the most fun of those classes, too.

So yes, to me he is an excellent class. Just like the FQE is an excellent class for M1A2 Abrams Tank (which I'll never understand, but I don't have to. I've seen him roll.)

I would say you are either lying, or you haven't practiced enough with the GI or the AIU (probably the latter).

But what about the Havoc? He's one of my favorite classes to use, and I still use this one better.

The Havoc is a better class than the Saboteur.  I wouldn't put him in the top tier, but he's still better.  And if you are better with the Saboteur, it means you haven't practiced enough with the Havoc.

I am awesome with the Justicar.  It's one of my favorite classes to use, and I am good at it because I have used it a ton.  I know that if I used the GI as much as I used the Justicar, I'd do much better with the GI though.

[Shampoohorn]

RamsenC wrote...

HoochieHamiltoe wrote...

Why not just put 4 in Sabotage and 4 in Fitness? That way you don't have to always put on a Cyclon 3 or 4 every time.

That would hurt your tech burst damage. 

It would seriously gimp tech bursts.  Not only would your base burst by 4x6 instead of 6x6, but you would not get the massive 50% boost to tech bursts from Tech Vulnerability.  (Yes it applies to tech explosions.)

Tech Vulnerability is awesome when you've got tech teammates.  Flamer, Incinerate, Overload, etc all get a 50% multiplicative damage bonus on sabotaged targets.

Modifié par Shampoohorn, 04 avril 2013 - 11:16 .

[ThatOddGuy]

Look at mah sig!

[DullahansXMark]

Miniditka77 wrote...

DullahansXMark wrote...

Miniditka77 wrote...

DullahansXMark wrote...

What if I told you he's one of my best classes? I can play him much better than a GI, than an AIU (yeah, I went there), than a Havoc... the list goes on.

He's not a "just4fun" class for me, he's actually one of my go-to "I'm gonna kick some ass" classes. He happens to be one of the most fun of those classes, too.

So yes, to me he is an excellent class. Just like the FQE is an excellent class for M1A2 Abrams Tank (which I'll never understand, but I don't have to. I've seen him roll.)

I would say you are either lying, or you haven't practiced enough with the GI or the AIU (probably the latter).

But what about the Havoc? He's one of my favorite classes to use, and I still use this one better.

The Havoc is a better class than the Saboteur.  I wouldn't put him in the top tier, but he's still better.  And if you are better with the Saboteur, it means you haven't practiced enough with the Havoc.

I am awesome with the Justicar.  It's one of my favorite classes to use, and I am good at it because I have used it a ton.  I know that if I used the GI as much as I used the Justicar, I'd do much better with the GI though.

I've played 400 Waves with the Havoc. I've only recently reached 200 with the Saboteur

[TheLukerez]

He IS excellent, people just are doing it wrong.
Sabotage isn't to be skipped so easily. Stun with it then headshot, next target, rinse wash repeat.

[bogsters23]

i put 4 on turrets for shock priming and 4 fitness. i'm thinking of going all weapon damage instead of damage and capacity. i use lancer for infinite ammo and acolyte for phantoms. i remember i did well on gold the last time i used this kit.

Modifié par bogsters23, 04 avril 2013 - 11:25 .

[ThatOddGuy]

DullahansXMark wrote...

Happy Shepard wrote...

His power synergy sucks.

I still like him and my TBs + shoot stuff biuld works quite well. He's a Turian after all.

I have to ask though, are you saying that on the grounds of combo detonations or just simply how well the powers mesh together in terms of utility?

I've heard this tossed around frequently, but I'm not sure what people are referring to.

It's people who look at the kit and don't think to hard about it/ I've put a lot of focus on elaborating on the powers' synergy in my guide in my sig.

I'm not a huge fan of the Turret, but the real synergy lies in Sabotage for stun-and-gun, and Homing Grenade armor damage and debuff for bosses. It's on par with Turian Sentinel's "answer for everything" perk.

Some of the hidden synergy lies in the fact that not only does Sabotage have a 1.5 second delay for Priming Tech Bursts, but the Homing Grenades have almost an equal travel time before they hit the target and detonate... such subtle synergy,

People also don't like that the Tech Vulnerability doesn't apply to any of his powers. ...none of the kits with Sabotage do...

People also look at him as an Engineer and this "no power synergy!". ...have you ever thought of Synergizing his powers with his weapons instead of each other?

Also, the Armiger dodge is a HUGE factor in the kit's play-style.



TL;DR -- read my guide. I think I have a good TL;DR summary in there.

[DullahansXMark]

ThatOddGuy wrote...

DullahansXMark wrote...

Happy Shepard wrote...

His power synergy sucks.

I still like him and my TBs + shoot stuff biuld works quite well. He's a Turian after all.

I have to ask though, are you saying that on the grounds of combo detonations or just simply how well the powers mesh together in terms of utility?

I've heard this tossed around frequently, but I'm not sure what people are referring to.

It's people who look at the kit and don't think to hard about it/ I've put a lot of focus on elaborating on the powers' synergy in my guide in my sig.

I'm not a huge fan of the Turret, but the real synergy lies in Sabotage for stun-and-gun, and Homing Grenade armor damage and debuff for bosses. It's on par with Turian Sentinel's "answer for everything" perk.

Some of the hidden synergy lies in the fact that not only does Sabotage have a 1.5 second delay for Priming Tech Bursts, but the Homing Grenades have almost an equal travel time before they hit the target and detonate... such subtle synergy,

People also don't like that the Tech Vulnerability doesn't apply to any of his powers. ...none of the kits with Sabotage do...

People also look at him as an Engineer and this "no power synergy!". ...have you ever thought of Synergizing his powers with his weapons instead of each other?

Also, the Armiger dodge is a HUGE factor in the kit's play-style.



TL;DR -- read my guide. I think I have a good TL;DR summary in there.

Why must this TL;DR redirect me to a different TL;DR?

lol, but seriously, you're raising a lot of good points. I can't wait to give your sig a readthrough.

[ThatOddGuy]

Also, I'll mention here for those who are to lazy to click my link:

Sabotage -> M-11 Suppressor

[Happy Shepard]

If you're going to quote my statement and accuse me of "not thinking about it", you might want to read my answers to Dullahan's question.

I spent a lot of time trying to figure out this kit and i never said you can't successfully utilize him. I just argued that his powers don't work well together. Which is the point of power synergy.

[Cyonan]

ThatOddGuy wrote...

Also, I'll mention here for those who are to lazy to click my link:

Sabotage -> M-11 Suppressor

How does that make the Saboteur excellent though?

Would that setup not also work with Reave, Energy Drain, Overload, or any hitscan power that does force for stagger?