194 réponses à ce sujet

[Cainhurst Crow]

I would make all combat be solved by the PC needing to play the towers of hanoi for every encounter.

[Sylvius the Mad]

mosesarose wrote...

 Dragon's Dogma. It has the best combat systems since Shadow of the Colossus. It has a great pace to it and the amount of player involvement is wonderful. If BW integrated this with DA strategic layout , I think it could be really fun. Fighting dragons in Skyrim or any other RPG can't beat how you fight a dragon in DD. Screw hacking at it's feet when you can jump on it's back and beat it in the head.   

Edit: How you really fight a dragon

This is the first time I've watched Dragon's Dogma combat (though I've certainly heard it mentioned around here often enough), and, based on this video, it doesn't look very appealing.  Aside from being action combat, and thus not at all applicable to a party-based game, it looks awfully repetitive.

[Fast Jimmy]

^

Agreed. It's focus on single player action scenes, even with the pawn system it has, would be terrible if a party-based game tried to apply it.

[Heavenly69]

Agree with sylvius the mad. played Dragons Dogma found it rather boring. keep DA2 combat. Its not slow or tedious

[Sylvius the Mad]

Heavenly69 wrote...

Agree with sylvius the mad. played Dragons Dogma found it rather boring. keep DA2 combat. Its not slow or tedious

I actually did find DA2's combat tedious, but I largely attribute that to the encounter design.  While I prefer DAO's combat to DA2's combat, I don't think DA2's combat is as bad as DA2 made it look.

[10K]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

mosesarose wrote...

 Dragon's Dogma. It has the best combat systems since Shadow of the Colossus. It has a great pace to it and the amount of player involvement is wonderful. If BW integrated this with DA strategic layout , I think it could be really fun. Fighting dragons in Skyrim or any other RPG can't beat how you fight a dragon in DD. Screw hacking at it's feet when you can jump on it's back and beat it in the head.   

Edit: How you really fight a dragon

This is the first time I've watched Dragon's Dogma combat (though I've certainly heard it mentioned around here often enough), and, based on this video, it doesn't look very appealing.  Aside from being action combat, and thus not at all applicable to a party-based game, it looks awfully repetitive.

This is just a video of a guy soloing a dragon. I wanted to show how taking down a dragon by climbing on to it would be better than hacking at it's feet in dragon age. Now I agree that DA shouldn't take DD entire combat system, but I think it would be fun if DA keeps it's tactical standpoint but incorporate some of DD aspects like it's pacing, and it's overall diversity of combat.

Edit:  perfect example of DD combat with pawns. Now if the pawns were controllable like teammates in DA it would work excellent.

Modifié par mosesarose, 05 avril 2013 - 11:47 .

[Chiramu]

Depends how the story would work with the combat.

I like the way Blizzard has done their RTS games with the story-telling where they have the campaign then they have some story outside and they work story inside the combat at checkpoints. Although this may or may not work with the Dragon Age game mechanics because of the way the story would be told, I don't know.

It definitely has to work seamlessly with the story, I think the combat system that is already in Dragon Age is a good match, but it needs a lot of tweaking to make it perfect. Responsiveness is a big key, you should be able to play as fast or as slowly as you want with the combat. If you're a faster player with the fastest computer the combat system should allow you to finish fights faster than someone who wants to take their time and think about things.

[Enigmatick]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

 I don't think DA2's combat is as bad as DA2 made it look.

Quote of the day. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

mosesarose wrote...

Edit:  perfect example of DD combat with pawns. Now if the pawns were controllable like teammates in DA it would work excellent.

But wouldn't full-party control preclude action combat?

With action combat of the sort we see in DD, the player could perhaps control any character by switching between them, but he wouldn't be able to control them all simultaneously as we see in DAO or DA2.

I like the free-form nature of DD combat, but I dislike action controls.  If we could take DD's encounters but replace the control mechanism with a more traditional point-and-click interface, that would be something worth trying.

[PsychoBlonde]

I'd actually like it if the system was more like DDO, to be honest.  It uses a similar numerical resolution so you wouldn't have to babysit your companions ALL the time in order to dodge attacks and similar--that, and you could get their quickbars up on your screen without having to switch to their viewpoint.  DDO has TONS of spells, special attacks, special abilities, etc. etc. etc. but you don't just spam them all when they're on cooldown--you use them at specific times/places.

That, and DDO has 13 classes and the ability to multi-class (up to 3 different classes) so there's something on the order of TRILLIONS of build options.  Add in a lot of specialty gear that lets you do wonkus things like use your charisma for attack and damage and you're looking at a really rich and varied system.

Yeah, there aren't special animations where you climb up mobs and stab them in the eye, but who cares, that's the animators having fun and me watching.

[Rawgrim]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

I'd actually like it if the system was more like DDO, to be honest.  It uses a similar numerical resolution so you wouldn't have to babysit your companions ALL the time in order to dodge attacks and similar--that, and you could get their quickbars up on your screen without having to switch to their viewpoint.  DDO has TONS of spells, special attacks, special abilities, etc. etc. etc. but you don't just spam them all when they're on cooldown--you use them at specific times/places.

That, and DDO has 13 classes and the ability to multi-class (up to 3 different classes) so there's something on the order of TRILLIONS of build options.  Add in a lot of specialty gear that lets you do wonkus things like use your charisma for attack and damage and you're looking at a really rich and varied system.

Yeah, there aren't special animations where you climb up mobs and stab them in the eye, but who cares, that's the animators having fun and me watching.

Whats DDO?

[XX-Pyro]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

mosesarose wrote...

Edit:  perfect example of DD combat with pawns. Now if the pawns were controllable like teammates in DA it would work excellent.

But wouldn't full-party control preclude action combat?

With action combat of the sort we see in DD, the player could perhaps control any character by switching between them, but he wouldn't be able to control them all simultaneously as we see in DAO or DA2.

I like the free-form nature of DD combat, but I dislike action controls.  If we could take DD's encounters but replace the control mechanism with a more traditional point-and-click interface, that would be something worth trying.

Or perhaps make the control set change depending on whether you are using a specific character or the entire party. For example, if I have my PC activated, I move him/her around similar to DD style combat, whereas if I have my entire party selected it's more of a traditional tactical party base RPG. With a bit of tweaking this could work, albeit you would have to switch between both for maximum efficiency unless the tactics menues were quite good.

[10K]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

mosesarose wrote...

Edit:  perfect example of DD combat with pawns. Now if the pawns were controllable like teammates in DA it would work excellent.

But wouldn't full-party control preclude action combat?

With action combat of the sort we see in DD, the player could perhaps control any character by switching between them, but he wouldn't be able to control them all simultaneously as we see in DAO or DA2.

I like the free-form nature of DD combat, but I dislike action controls.  If we could take DD's encounters but replace the control mechanism with a more traditional point-and-click interface, that would be something worth trying.

And that my friend is what we can agree upon. A culmination of the two would be something to see:)

[Avalon The Elf]

mosesarose wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

sharkboy421 wrote...

mosesarose wrote...

 Dragon's Dogma. It has the best combat systems since Shadow of the Colossus. It has a great pace to it and the amount of player involvement is wonderful. If BW integrated this with DA strategic layout , I think it could be really fun. Fighting dragons in Skyrim or any other RPG can't beat how you fight a dragon in DD. Screw hacking at it's feet when you can jump on it's back and beat it in the head.   

Edit: How you really fight a dragon

I'll have to second this.

Wich is kind of how you kill dragons in DA:O, to be honest.

Have to disagree, fighting dragons in Origins is the same as most games. You hack at it's feet and right when it's about to die either the warrior or rogue activate the death blow. You don't get to climb onto the dragon until the final blow. And even then the player isn't doing it, it's a cinematic. Where as in DD the player is in control at all times.

This

Also i get alot of satisfaction hopping on a punkass Griffin trying to fly away and stabbing through it's skull to make it crash 

[Vaeliorin]

PsychoBlonde wrote...
I'd actually like it if the system was more like DDO, to be honest.  It uses a similar numerical resolution so you wouldn't have to babysit your companions ALL the time in order to dodge attacks and similar--that, and you could get their quickbars up on your screen without having to switch to their viewpoint.  DDO has TONS of spells, special attacks, special abilities, etc. etc. etc. but you don't just spam them all when they're on cooldown--you use them at specific times/places.

That, and DDO has 13 classes and the ability to multi-class (up to 3 different classes) so there's something on the order of TRILLIONS of build options.  Add in a lot of specialty gear that lets you do wonkus things like use your charisma for attack and damage and you're looking at a really rich and varied system.

Yeah, there aren't special animations where you climb up mobs and stab them in the eye, but who cares, that's the animators having fun and me watching.

It's also super twitchy if you want to be "good", and thus really wouldn't work with party control.  It also has way too many clickies.  When 1 character can use almost 140 quickslots (and has 160 on screen)...that's a problem.  All that said, it's not terrible...it's just nothing like D&D, which is my real problem with it (not only are the numbers absurdly inflated, but they don't even use the d20 attack roll system anymore.)

Temple of Elemental Evil with interesting non-caster abilities would work for me.  I would adore Temple of Elemental Evil combat completely if it was 4E instead of 3.X (because I want my fighters to be worthwhile without having to cheese the system, darn it...I'm still sad we never got a real 4E cRPG.)

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

mosesarose wrote...
 Dragon's
Dogma. It has the best combat systems since Shadow of the Colossus. It
has a great pace to it and the amount of player involvement is
wonderful. If BW integrated this with DA strategic layout , I think it
could be really fun. Fighting dragons in Skyrim or any other RPG can't
beat how you fight a dragon in DD. Screw hacking at it's feet when you
can jump on it's back and beat it in the head.   [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie]

Edit: How you really fight a dragon

This
is the first time I've watched Dragon's Dogma combat (though I've
certainly heard it mentioned around here often enough), and, based on
this video, it doesn't look very appealing.  Aside from being action
combat, and thus not at all applicable to a party-based game, it looks
awfully repetitive.

Honestly, my biggest problem with that is how ridiculously easy it was.  If the player had wanted to, he could have killed the dragon without taking a single hit, all because he just hung on to the dragon when it moved, and it apparently can't use it's claws/tail/head to attack him when he's hanging on.

And it did look really repetitive...talk about a damage sponge, geez.

Modifié par Vaeliorin, 06 avril 2013 - 12:30 .

[10K]

Vaeliorin wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

mosesarose wrote...
 Dragon's
Dogma. It has the best combat systems since Shadow of the Colossus. It
has a great pace to it and the amount of player involvement is
wonderful. If BW integrated this with DA strategic layout , I think it
could be really fun. Fighting dragons in Skyrim or any other RPG can't
beat how you fight a dragon in DD. Screw hacking at it's feet when you
can jump on it's back and beat it in the head.   [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie]

Edit: How you really fight a dragon

This
is the first time I've watched Dragon's Dogma combat (though I've
certainly heard it mentioned around here often enough), and, based on
this video, it doesn't look very appealing.  Aside from being action
combat, and thus not at all applicable to a party-based game, it looks
awfully repetitive.

Honestly, my biggest problem with that is how ridiculously easy it was.  If the player had wanted to, he could have killed the dragon without taking a single hit, all because he just hung on to the dragon when it moved, and it apparently can't use it's claws/tail/head to attack him when he's hanging on.

And it did look really repetitive...talk about a damage sponge, geez.

If you are talking about the video here, of course it was easy for the guy playing. He is at a ridiculously high level and is only fighting the first generation ur-dragon.

Modifié par mosesarose, 06 avril 2013 - 12:39 .

[lil yonce]

mosesarose wrote...

If you are talking about the video here, of course it was easy for the guy playing. He is at a ridiculously high level and is only fighting the first generation ur-dragon.

Yeah, the Ur-dragon is a beezy. That player is a high level assassin.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Anything that doesn't involve waves of generic enemies would be an improvement.

[Allan Schumacher]

Rawgrim wrote...

Enigmatick wrote...

I'd usually agree but we haven't actually seen any Project Eternity combat. 

True. But they have said its going to be almost identical to the combat in the infinity engine games.

Sawyer has also mentioned cooldowns for some spells (typically lower level spells), as well as some other potential differences (spells being contained in spell books, which must be equipped and the like).

I actually disagree that they have said it's going to be "almost identical" to the Infinity Engine games.  Obsidian has IE as a baseline, but they're still looking at ways to vary up the system.  Fortunately, Sawyer is a mechanics and rules guru.

Modifié par Allan Schumacher, 06 avril 2013 - 01:17 .

[Fast Jimmy]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

I'd actually like it if the system was more like DDO, to be honest.  It uses a similar numerical resolution so you wouldn't have to babysit your companions ALL the time in order to dodge attacks and similar--that, and you could get their quickbars up on your screen without having to switch to their viewpoint.  DDO has TONS of spells, special attacks, special abilities, etc. etc. etc. but you don't just spam them all when they're on cooldown--you use them at specific times/places.

That, and DDO has 13 classes and the ability to multi-class (up to 3 different classes) so there's something on the order of TRILLIONS of build options.  Add in a lot of specialty gear that lets you do wonkus things like use your charisma for attack and damage and you're looking at a really rich and varied system.

Yeah, there aren't special animations where you climb up mobs and stab them in the eye, but who cares, that's the animators having fun and me watching.

If I weren't married, I would kiss you. 

Also, you have made me want to try and check out Dungeons and Dragons Online.

[Zanallen]

Tetris.

[Twisted Path]

I think the idea with Project Eternity is to try to recreate the feel of those infinity engine games without the wonky problems of Dungeons and Dragons Second Edition (THaC0, warrior types being super boring to play, mages having a lot of instant win buttons and spells that just make them invincible, the early game being completely luck based, armor class making damage all or nothing, weird monsters having a lot of insta-kill powers, and of course the inexplicable tables with fifty different types of polearms.)

Thinking about I guess I should resend my vote for Baldur's Gate 2 gameplay. The Temple of Elemental Evil, Icewind Dale 2 or just Pathfinder would be a better fit: D&D style play with a lot of thought put towards working the kinks out, though I still prefer the (slow) real-time-with pause system the infinity engine games had going.

[Direwolf0294]

Thinking about it, maybe combat similar to one of the Fable games but changed up a bit so it's a bit more difficult; no holding down one button to block all attacks for example. Amalur style combat would also be cool, but I only played the demo for that game and don't know how it played at higher levels.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Direwolf0294 wrote...

Thinking about it, maybe combat similar to one of the Fable games but changed up a bit so it's a bit more difficult; no holding down one button to block all attacks for example. Amalur style combat would also be cool, but I only played the demo for that game and don't know how it played at higher levels.

When I said anything would be an improvement, what I really meant was, anything would be an improvement as long as it's not Fable-related.

Modifié par EpicBoot2daFace, 06 avril 2013 - 01:57 .