74 réponses à ce sujet

[henesua]

Someone needs to change the name of this thread.

[Tarot Redhand]

Don't you find it enlightening? ()

TR

[PLUSH HYENA of DOOM]

I SAID it was going utterly off topic. I didn't start it!

Oh, and Tarot, thus far I have not yet achieved Complete Blissful Enlightenment and True Oneness with the Cosmos as a result of this thread.

[Zwerkules]

*whistles innocently*

[Bannor Bloodfist]

henesua, love the look of what you have already created, but you did ask if there was a way to help reduce tri's and one idea I thought of immediately was to just remove the bottom row of those balls around the side of the dalek and adjust downwards the remaining rows to make it appear "what's the word?" balanced? Remember, we don't have to appear exactly as they are in Dr Who episodes, just close enough to help us imagine them as being real.

Anyway, just a thought, you could also reduce the number of balls in each row by one or two and still retain the overall look/feel of what they are supposed to be. Not sure how many tri's you would save by combining those two ideas, but every tri saved is a plus in NWN.

Again, great work so far, and any encouragement i can give is yours!

[MerricksDad]

How many poly on each ball? I was experimenting with some env mapping stuff combined with tweaking the face groups (on my drow) and I came up with some medium-quality bump-map-like shininess. You might be able to reduce the poly count of each ball to a total of 5 and just fudge it. I am currently assuming you are using a 6 sided cone which is not coming to a point, but a flat surface (square?). I also assume that would be a minimum of 12 faces per ball? So, lets see (using fingers), 6 strips per side, two sides, 4 balls per strip, what 48 balls? times 12 faces = 576, or with 5 faces and fudge you'd have 240 faces for balls. Ok, not a huge reduction...and you'd lose some shadow quality. Still something to think about.

[PLUSH HYENA of DOOM]

There is a point practicality does start to impinge upon what actually looks good and, in my opinion at least, lessening the number of the (non) hemispheres on the Dalek skirt section and spreading them out more will look, well, crap.

I agree that, if there's a good reason - either technical or artistic - to make changes, then there's no reason to slavishly adhere to source materials. (That blue and gold Dalek in the picture I posted, for instance - There was never a blue and gold Dalek in the series, I just felt like painting it those colours and when I was building it, I deliberately made alterations such as having no slats on the shoulder section precisely because I wanted it to look a bit different - actually, of the 14 full-size Daleks I've got here, there isn't one that's COMPLETELY identical to any of the ones in the series, some of them very different indeed)... but Daleks DO have 56 hemispheres on the skirt section and they DO look daft without 'em, so this is one instance where the number, if not the exact shape, should be accurate, simply because it works that way visually.

Definitely worth keeping the poly count where it is (which is not at all horrible, considering) and thus maintaining the excellent look of the model as it stands.
Personally, I'd much rather lessen the numbers of Daleks invading any given Area by a few, if necessary, and have them look good, than be able to field a hundred crap-looking ones at once.

Modifié par PLUSH HYENA of DOOM, 17 avril 2013 - 05:11 .

[MerricksDad]

@PHoD, Love your Daleks by the way. My kid (3) is big into Dr. Who. He says he is the doctor every day, at least about 10 times. He has been watching me make monsters in gMax and just loves when I run across Who content on here. Your pic of the Daleks in the driveway was almost too much for him to handle.

[henesua]

I think the poly count is fine. I'm used to modding characters at 1000 or less triangles (300 is usually my initial goal for anything I model and I was hoping to achieve that here due to its inorganic shape), but 1400 is not bad for this critter all things considered.

Anyway, sorry for the silence. I have not had any time lately. I did get the slats burned into the texture as shadows, and will photoshop magic that texture soon. But I have made no further progress.

I'm currently in survival mode trying to both keep my job and finding another one. Bit tricky in this climate. But I will have some day light in the next two weeks to finish this.

[Tarot Redhand]

@henesua didn't you read the title of this thread? If rl gets in the way, it gets in the way. Nothing anyone can do anything about. If you need to choose between rl and here then rl should win out every time. Don't stress over something that is only done for amusement when what keeps food on the table calls. It'll be done when you have time to do it and that is more than enough.

Good luck.

TR

[PLUSH HYENA of DOOM]

Tarot is completely right.

I'm at the stage now where I NEED the Daleks in their first story, but I can work with my own Dalek model (a totally crap blob that's about the right size in assorted colours for the different Dalek types) so I can just alter the model appearances when you've got the proper model done and I've finished all the Variants. For now I can write the conversations, script "Dalek appears at X waypoint" and so on without the actual model present.

I noted your comment (somewhere, I forget where) about moving into ecology and getting precisely nowhere (strange how often I've encountered similar tales of woe regarding that field, my own amongst them - one of the reasons Fifi and I started our own little project which, if nothing else, has made a great many Newts very happy) so I was assuming you'd have more important concerns than Daleks just now. One shouldn't get dumped on for trying to do the right thing, but sadly we do not live in a world of "should"... Anyway, as long as I know there WILL be a Dalek model to replace my lumpy blobs at some point, I can proceed, so don't worry at all.

Two weeks is fine - and no, I won't hold you to that! The unexpected is always to be expected, after all... um... damn, just pretend I didn't say that... Thanks for keeping the thread updated; I know you're juggling a great many things at present.

(And good luck from me too!)

Modifié par PLUSH HYENA of DOOM, 18 avril 2013 - 03:10 .

[henesua]

Here is where I got with the texture.


I don't love it, but I can also give you a layered file so that it will be easy for others to modify. Single texture wrappign the entire Dalek is only 512px. I do like that. I think this model will be plenty efficient.

Still needed:

• lights on head as separate mesh should anyone want to animate them.
• rigging
• animation

Modifié par henesua, 18 avril 2013 - 06:36 .

[henesua]

I've uploaded the Dalek files to a project page. The version 0.1 files include the model in 3ds, fbx and obj, and the texture in psd and tif. Only the fbx is fully functional.

The uploaded files do not yet function within NWN. I need help with the next step.

I've rigged the model but have no idea what to name the nodes. I need a list of appropriate node names. The names I am currently using are:
Root
  Torso
    Head
      Eye_joint
        Eye
    Shoulder_r
      Arm_r
        Hand_r
    Shoulder_l
      Hand_l

[PLUSH HYENA of DOOM]

This is looking extremely impressive now... I wish my knowledge of digital modelling was up to converting it to MDL myself, but sadly, it isn't... On the other hand, I'm going to go and seize the textures in my grubby paws and start work on the basic colour variants. The physical variations for the Assault Daleks and such will have to wait until an actual MDL is available for me to hit with bricks (somebody, anybody!?) but meanwhile, Henesua, huge and colossal Gojira-sized thanks are already lumbering heavily toward you... No, actually, that sounds faintly alarming. Well, you get the general idea. Just imagine me wiping myself about on the floor in rubbish abasement, venerating your mighty name and... actually, that's a bit repulsive. Whatever.

[Tarot Redhand]

I second what PHOD said.

TR

[MerricksDad]

If you are not using an external animation set, whatever you name the nodes is perfectly fine, as long as you know what they are when animating them. You might however want to distinguish between geometry nodes and dummy nodes using a _g suffix, and possibly move your left/right identifier to the front of the node name. That way you (or another in the future) can mass select geometry nodes on your model using something like "*_g" so they can mass edit trimesh properties.

Excellent work!

[henesua]

(Aside: I just discovered that Blender can not import FBX. I once talked to an Autodesk representative about making FBX completely opensource, and was given the run around. Now I understand that this problem of FBX licensing is bigger than I thought.)

Has anyone been able to take a look at the model and to determine whether they can do anything with it?
       I suspect you will need 3DS Max to do so since the rigging is only in the FBX format. The 3DS file does have the texture associated with it and thus probably my UV work as well, but lacks the rig. The OBJ file has neither rig nor texture.

If no one can do anything with this I suppose I'll have to get it into Blender and export as an MDL. Let me know.

[Rolo Kipp]

<rushing...>

I'll handle it tomorrow morning if no one gets to it first.

Insane today - Sal gets back from Bali!

<...about>

[henesua]

Textures:
PHoD, what is the best format for the texture? I assume you will want the layered version. Is photoshop format good for this? Also would the 1024x1024 version be worth while for you?

Also... about that TIF... is the Byte order ok? (Meaning: is the flat texture flipped in a weird way or is it fine for you?)

Modifié par henesua, 19 avril 2013 - 04:30 .

[Rolo Kipp]

<the wiz can't help it...>

*cough* Ok, so I took a *leetle* peek at the dalek. Couldn't help it :-)



Files up... Click on pic ;-)

<...he just can't help it (sing it!)>

Modifié par Rolo Kipp, 19 avril 2013 - 05:10 .

[henesua]

Thanks, Rolo. Maybe I can import this with Neverblender and see what I can do there.

[PLUSH HYENA of DOOM]

Henesua, Rolo...

I could slobber about hideously pouring profuse thanks and oblations upon you in a truly disgusting way and write out "thank you" in forty foot high luminous lettering all over the walls of some famous national landmark and go on and on... but it'd just be unsightly.
I shall restrain myself to simply saying "Thank you VERY much" in a perfectly normal way. I think by this point you know how heartfelt it is. (If not, just point me toward your favourite/least favourite national landmark)...

Now, if you'll forgive the seething excitement, I just have to go away and PLAY WITH MY NEW TOY!

(PS:- In terms of texture, I think the 512 should be fine - 1024 textures can cause just a lleeeeetle bit of lag on things sometimes. I just MIGHT enlarge the texture for the Dalek Prime to 1024 (if necessary) 'cause there's only one of it and I intend to give it assorted symbols and glyphs on the casing, but the rest will be 512s. As far as I can tell, the texture is not flipped oddly. (It's the same way up as the screenshot you posted earlier in this thread. Now I have a model to test it on, I can see what I'm doing better, but I think it's fine as it stands.

(Seethes off excitedly, falls off chair, forgets to download model in rabid excitement, comes back cursing, downloads, growls savagely at delays, drags portable hard drive off to his own murkly lair where his own computer waits, spends far too long messing about with Daleks - not for the first time but at least without fumes from curing fibreglass...)

Modifié par PLUSH HYENA of DOOM, 21 avril 2013 - 09:14 .

[PLUSH HYENA of DOOM]

RIGHT! You asked for this... (sort of)...

PHoD DALEK Variant Progress - DAY ONE.

Firstly, the basic Dalek model proved to be just a little bit too small - I'm 6'8" and I can get inside them, even the slightly smaller 1960s ones, though it's cramped, not that anyone ever claimed being a Dalek Operator was comfortable. Placing the Dalek beside an NWN Human Male convinced me there was no damn way he'd fit. Just didn't look quite right, so I've scaled the model up slightly. Its Scale setting is now 1.1 and feels much more as it should.

Secondly, I tried some VFX, discovered they looked horrible and have thus added trimesh Dome Lights to the Dalek and they look far better. Not quite the right shape yet, but this IS only Day One... So, with a rescaled Dalek equipped with Dome Lights, I attacked the textures for the ten basic Variants already called for by the Modules... Doubtless there'll be more... (Also amended the ambient/diffuse/specular settings of the model).

The Supreme Black Dalek, similar to its apperarances in "Resurrection of the Daleks" and "Remembrance of the Daleks" is the undisputed leader of the Dalek race. (That said, I am slowly working on an Emperor Dalek model as close as my rubbish ability allows to the "Evil of the Daleks" version). The Grey Daleks are the standard warriors and variations of the grey and black colour scheme were the standard in every Doctor Who story post 1960s (except one). They therefore form the majority of the Dalek forces seen in my Modules...
Note:- I completely altered Henesua's texture for the front area where the gun and arm attach, making it the same colour as the bulk of the casing as on "real" Daleks rather than an extension of the middle band. Also added the oval shape that many Daleks have had there over the years too. Dog only knows what it's for.

For the Scientific Cadre, I elected to use the standard colour scheme the Daleks had in the 1960s (though why they bothered having a colour scheme with blues that couldn't be seen in a B&W series I have no idea). I'm quite pleased with the way they've turned out though, as with all of them, this is just the first day's rabidly enthusiastic attack and I will probably waste countless more happy hours poking the texture with sharp sticks and throwing big bricks at it until satisfied with every last pixel. Needing a "Chief Scientist" Dalek, I just played about with the 1960s look until arriving at the Green Dalek version which I quite like, mostly because there was never a Green Dalek in the series and I like green.

These additonal colour variants represent the three Command Units that act as the Black Dalek's lieutenants, heading various missions and taskforces. Primary colours seemed apt even if the gold (well, yellow anyway) version is the only one similar to one that appeared in the series. (Always felt the Gold Dalek in "Day of the Daleks" didn't have enough black on it, so I gave these more black, made them look a bit darker.

Davros, dribblingly mad Creator of the Daleks, had encased himself in a so-called Emperor Dalek shell (which looked like a gigantic air freshener) when last seen in "Remembrance of the Daleks" and this is my progress so far in recreating his spherical, alleged Emperor Dalek guise. This is less because it looked astounding so much as it's a damn sight easier than trying to create a custom Davros model where he can be seen. Thus I can get Davros into the Modules just by sticking a big blob on a Dalek skirt section. Simple. (His life-support chair may look somewhat like the skirt section of a Dalek casing but it's actually a totally different shape). That said, I just MIGHT try taking the skirt section of the Dalek model and jamming an upper half of Human body in it and adding bits, see what happens. Maybe it'd look passable... Davros' White and Gold Dalek faction always made me think of pretentious bathroom fittings, but I felt I might as well keep them looking more or less as they did in the series. Just a bit TOO golden-yellow at the moment, needs toning down a tad... though they're only going to get blown to pieces by the Grey Daleks anyway...

And here we see the All New (though not at all shiny) PHoD Heavy Assault Dalek, which looks more or less like I wanted it to. Basically a single-purpose engine of total destruction. The only sure defence against it is to be on a different planet. (Minor changes included removing the standard eyestick and creating a more robust, armoured version and removing the sucker arm and replacing it with a second gunstick to increase the beast's firepower yet even more, like it needs it with those farcically huge cannons...)

All in all, quite pleased with the first day's progress - still to come, the "Remembrance..." Special Weapons Dalek, the "Evil..." Emperor Dalek which will possibly end up as a Tileset group or whopping Placeable, given its ludicrous proportions, the Dalek Prime (a sort of mobile data archive and tactical control network)  and the as yet TOP SECRET Shadow Guild Daleks (which are secret mostly because they'll be revealed ONLY if I can make them look as good as I want them to instead of an embarrassingly lame mess which is possible given the amount of customization required, far more than on the Assault Dalek, and my none too clever abilities implementing it all. The VFX involved are about the only thing I'm confident of being able to get right).

IMMENSE thanks of outrageous proportions to Henesua (and Rolo) for giving me the foundation without which, obviously, none of these Variants would have existed. (Thanks also to Tarot for starting this thread and thus poking sharp sticks into the right places).

Please be advised that I will not be posting vast piles of drivel like this EVERY day or anything. You're safe until next time I have something really INTERESTING to report... eventually, I'll get back to working on the Modules instead of piles of CC for them!

PS:- As you'll gather from the images, I've concluded that you can have at least twenty Daleks on screen, in-game, farting about all over the place without the slightest lag. A tiny flicker when they spawn in but that can be said for most Creature models in any number. So the poly count is fine, even on my Assault Dalek which has pushed the count up rather.

Modifié par PLUSH HYENA of DOOM, 21 avril 2013 - 09:45 .

[henesua]

Great work, PHoD.

[PLUSH HYENA of DOOM]

One is gratified you approve!