363 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

As my main Shepard can't romance Jack, I'm more familiar with the strictly friendship dynamic than I am the romance one, but looking at the two, I've always preferred the former. Somehow, it just seems more natural to me for the relationship between the two characters.

[Rasofe]

KaiserShep wrote...

As my main Shepard can't romance Jack, I'm more familiar with the strictly friendship dynamic than I am the romance one, but looking at the two, I've always preferred the former. Somehow, it just seems more natural to me for the relationship between the two characters.

Yes. My impulsive Femshep has a lot in common with Jack. Shady past, instinctual decisions, hates Cerberus... There's a lot in common there. But if that Femshep was male, he'd be going out with Tali anyway because of the heroic rescue factor which Jack doesn't even acknowledge.
 
Contrastingly, Miranda's relationship is one of the only ones - if not the only one for Male Shepard - that doesn't involve a heroic rescue factor, neither acknowledged nor unacknowledged. It's the most equal-level relationship. Shepard actually saves Miranda AFTER Miranda has already saved him. That's unusual for a main protagonist and LI.

Also, "trauma" doesn't mean a general qualm, a near-death experience or the loss of a close friend or loved one. Jack has a traumatic past. Pretty much no-one else does, not even Shepard measures up to what Jack had to go through in Pragia. So by equating Shepard's pain to Jack's, Shepard is inadvertently painted as the weaker of the two rather than an equal.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Is there a way to remain civil with Jack in ME2 if you are not romancing her, because when I get to the end of her dialogue chain all I get is **** off. But I still have her loyalty.

[Rasofe]

StreetMagic wrote...

Rasofe wrote...

Also, "trauma" doesn't mean a general qualm, a near-death experience or the loss of a close friend or loved one. Jack has a traumatic past. Pretty much no-one else does, not even Shepard measures up to what Jack had to go through in Pragia. So by equating Shepard's pain to Jack's, Shepard is inadvertently painted as the weaker of the two rather than an equal.

 If you romance her, she says "have you ever felt you're alone, and realize you're not". I don't care if you don't like romancing Jack, but a lot of your criticisms seem to be based off some speedrun that didn't even pay much attention to the different lines.

Then Shepard pretty much auto-dialogues "pretty much, yeah." You don't get to choose to agree. What's your point?
I wish that playthrough was a speedrun. In the end the Failshep playthrough didn't improve the experience for me at all. I thought it would be funny, but the last point anything interesting happened with him was Omega DLC.

[Rasofe]

I still don't see your point.
I said that Shepard's relationship with Jack results in trying to bond by equating their issues with each other. This doesn't work becuse Shepard's crap isn't nearly as bad, and the only way to make it as bad is by allowing Shepard to be much more broken. Hence what my point was about ONE of the reasons why my main Shepard would be OOC to romance Jack.

[Yuma310]

I can only speak to my own thoughts and feels on the matter, but I adore the Jack/Shepard romance plot - or at least the paragon route... the renegade route inevitably makes me feel like an ****. It appeals to me because it is a rather dramatic character arc, with an emotional payoff, and it feels genuine. The feels... of the feels! It's a testament to Bioware's skill with writing in my opinion. There's so many routes to go with stories to envision in the Jack/Shepard romance... indeed, this is one of the largest contributors to why even today I continue to play the trilogy over and over again.

[Michotic]

I don't like her breaking down into a pile of tears. It goes against everything else she is. She's a tough, take no prisoners kind of woman. She doesn't back down, she doesn't hesitate. She endured years of physical and psychological torture.

And all it takes is a hug, and she turns into a 'weak' woman who needs a man to show her the way. I try to think of how I'd view it if Jack were male. Rough and tough, all around bad ***. If a male character broke down like that, it wouldn't be nearly as acceptable.

If she kept her passion and forcefulness, I'd find her romance arc much more appealing.

[TheMyron]

Michotic wrote...

I don't like her breaking down into a pile of tears. It goes against everything else she is. She's a tough, take no prisoners kind of woman. She doesn't back down, she doesn't hesitate. She endured years of physical and psychological torture.

And all it takes is a hug, and she turns into a 'weak' woman who needs a man to show her the way. I try to think of how I'd view it if Jack were male. Rough and tough, all around bad ***. If a male character broke down like that, it wouldn't be nearly as acceptable.

If she kept her passion and forcefulness, I'd find her romance arc much more appealing.

If Jack were male, simple, be more "fatherly" than boyfriendish-thereputic... or something.

[Michotic]

As far as male characters go, breaking down when someone shows you affection doesn't happen. This doesn't mean the person doesn't change. A woman can be tough and independent, but once the man shows up, she turns into a frail creature that needs the man to 'save' her. That type of role doesn't really happen in reverse.

I think it does Jack a disservice.

[TheMyron]

Well, Shepard is only the second person in Jack's entire who never:

A.) Used her as a "living weapon" and/or sex toy...

or

B.) Got all "self-righteous" about himself, and shunned her whenever possible...

Modifié par TheMyron, 09 décembre 2013 - 04:12 .

[Ryzaki]

DinoSteve wrote...

Is there a way to remain civil with Jack in ME2 if you are not romancing her, because when I get to the end of her dialogue chain all I get is **** off. But I still have her loyalty.

yeah you can get the stop dicking around by picking the renegade no? (or is it the neutral no)

See Bw's stupid asses decided to put a fake no in the "do you want to romance her" with Jack (which was complete stupidity. WTF are there two nos and one is a lie? WTF is the point in that other than to ****** people off?) one no is an ACTUAL no where she goes "good I'm not interested either." then you have to pick the "agreed no romance" option and then she gives you a stop pissing around dialogue instead of the F*** off.

Took me about 4 playthroughs to realize that BS. And by then my impression of her was completely soured.

I tried to romance Jack once. But my Spacer/War Hero was too good for her, my paragade would've romanced Miranda instead and my renedouche would be more likely to shoot her than comfort her and I wasn't in the mood to make a Shepard just for her so *shrugs*.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 09 décembre 2013 - 08:28 .

[Michotic]

TheMyron wrote...



Well, Shepard is only the second person in Jack's entire who never:

A.) Used her as a "living weapon" and/or sex toy...

or

B.) Got all "self-righteous" about himself, and shunned her whenever possible...

I can certainly see why Jack would be attracted to Shepard, but I think it would be better if she didn't break down around him. That's the part I don't like. Their scene in the shuttle after Grissom is great. The two of them in the combat arena is also awesome, as they both play into Jack being a tough, passionate person. If that theme was kept, I'd probably like the romance arc much more.

[TheMyron]

Michotic wrote...

TheMyron wrote...

Well, Shepard is only the second person in Jack's entire who never:

A.) Used her as a "living weapon" and/or sex toy...

or

B.) Got all "self-righteous" about himself, and shunned her whenever possible...

I can certainly see why Jack would be attracted to Shepard, but I think it would be better if she didn't break down around him. That's the part I don't like. Their scene in the shuttle after Grissom is great. The two of them in the combat arena is also awesome, as they both play into Jack being a tough, passionate person. If that theme was kept, I'd probably like the romance arc much more.

She doesn't break down entirely, those were just tears of either joy or sadness (depending on your final choice right before Omega relay). She once encountered the rarest kind of guy, the kind who would love her, but he paid the ultimate price proving it. She obviously thought she would never encounter his kind again, but then Shepard came along; hence the tears of joy.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Michotic wrote...

As far as male characters go, breaking down when someone shows you affection doesn't happen. This doesn't mean the person doesn't change. A woman can be tough and independent, but once the man shows up, she turns into a frail creature that needs the man to 'save' her. That type of role doesn't really happen in reverse.

I think it does Jack a disservice.

See, this is part of the reason why I'm happy with Jack's non-squad role in ME3. A lot of people take Jack's romance to mean that she needs Shepard's love to function properly, as a human being. So it's nice to see ME3 lay that to rest -- she's doing just fine without Shepard, even one that romanced her. But tough and strong people can have emotional moments too.

[Michotic]

She doesn't break down entirely, those were just tears of either joy or sadness (depending on your final choice right before Omega relay). She once encountered the rarest kind of guy, the kind who would love her, but he paid the ultimate price proving it. She obviously thought she would never encounter his kind again, but then Shepard came along; hence the tears of joy.

The problem I have with this is she needs a man to be a complete person. Her breakdown makes the rest of her personality out to just be a facade, and I think that's a shame.

And note, it's specifically a man that does this. Jack even says she's bi, which is fine, but there's zero chance of FemShep seeing this. Only the man. Jack is tough, confident, independent, driven, and many other qualities...until Shepard arrives, then she's just a frail woman.

I just don't like it.

[KaiserShep]

This makes me kind of like Jack's non-romance dynamic even more.

[Yougotcarved1]

seriously?

because jack is ****ING NUTS BAT**** CRAZY and you dont stick your dick in ****ing nuts bat**** crazy

[TheMyron]

Michotic wrote...

She doesn't break down entirely, those were just tears of either joy or sadness (depending on your final choice right before Omega relay). She once encountered the rarest kind of guy, the kind who would love her, but he paid the ultimate price proving it. She obviously thought she would never encounter his kind again, but then Shepard came along; hence the tears of joy.

The problem I have with this is she needs a man to be a complete person. Her breakdown makes the rest of her personality out to just be a facade, and I think that's a shame.

And note, it's specifically a man that does this. Jack even says she's bi, which is fine, but there's zero chance of FemShep seeing this. Only the man. Jack is tough, confident, independent, driven, and many other qualities...until Shepard arrives, then she's just a frail woman.

I just don't like it.

Maybe she figures women have a higher chance of being treacherous, hence she dumped women entirely.

[AcidwireX]

Well her abrasive personality is the major turn off. I butt heads with people like her in real life too, and could never be with someone so obnoxious.

Even on the physical attractiveness she's bleh, nasty looking tattoos, a shaved head, and a crappy figure. There is literally nothing about Jack that I find remotely appealing. Even her name is dumb.

[dreamgazer]

Yougotcarved1 wrote...

seriously?

because jack is ****ING NUTS BAT**** CRAZY and you dont stick your dick in ****ing nuts bat**** crazy

Take a deep breath.  Relax.