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[Flamingdropbear]

-Been replaying DAO and DA2 and while I've been having fun there are certain things in the games that pull me out of tne gaming experience faster than a greased nug. Splitting them into three sections

Gameplay

Insurmountable half metre walls- Hawke can jump 4 metres in the air with evade or pounce, but can't scrample over a small pile of rubble? At least make the barriers look like barriers.
Battle oblivious bystanders- in the Orzammar commons I got attacked and my mage froze a mob of guys, and three people shopping, who completely ingnored the inconvince of being encased in ice. I know this was mentioned in this panel at PAX east, please do something about it (even if it is just making sure battles happen in places without bystanders). It also includes them ignoring piles of dead bodies littering the streets for the rest of the game. Can't they hire a cleaner?
Why can't I use it- I have the stats, so why can't I use the sword of sharpness cause I'm a rogue.
Over use of a good idea- the wave combat in DA2 was a good idea, but like chocolate icecream you can over do it far to easily

Plot
Knowing the unknownable - How the hell did Hawke know where to take all the bits of garbage in fetch quests? How did she know what was important and not just vendor trash? If your making these quests again just shove a note on the Chanters board.
Not Knowing the known - While I understand that the games have to be made with the understanding that the people playing may have not played a DA game before, when introducinng these things try and make the protagonist not seem like an ignorant buffon. ME handled it well with the Proteans, Shepard had half said half the details ( what I was taught at school) and Anderson filled in some more.

Graphics
The Hands - by the Ancestors the hands in both DA games were either action figure grips, unmoving and in the uncanny valley, out of place on the body (Bethany had the hands of a 59 year old washer woman on the body of a teenager)
The Hips - Lady Hawke runs like she's had her hips broken, didn't notice this unlit someone metioned it, but now cannot think about anything else when i see her run.
The Stone- Many things bugged me about the reuse of cave in DA2, but the worst was having to see the insult to geolgist everywhere that was the rock types mash together with no care to then processes that shoukld have  put them there. All the boulders and rubble was metamorphic as was the exterior of Sundermount , but the walls of the caves inside were erroded sandstone, stalacties with the same sedimentary layers as the surrounding rock when their formation processes is entirely different and don't get me started on the lava flows. Sorry the dwarf in me, as well as the geologist, gets picky about that

Modifié par Flamingdropbear, 08 avril 2013 - 06:45 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

Bad VA work, picking a dialogue option I didn't mean to pick, silly character designs, and stiff animations.

[Renmiri1]

Server down, retry in a few minutes...

[Flamingdropbear]

Filament wrote...

1. Flaming drop-bears

Don't set fire to Eucalyptus trees without vegimite behind your ears.

[Dingo]

one thing that ticked me off in DA:O (I'm sure there are other things but this one always stands out for me) was that I couldn't walk across a puddle...a pool of water that probably doesn't even come half way up your pinky toe and you couldn't walk through it.

Partaker of dark rituals, slayer of archdemons, HERO of Ferelden, can't walk through a puddle *sigh*

[Swagger7]

Flamingdropbear wrote...


The Stone- Many things bugged me about the reuse of cave in DA2, but the worst was having to see the insult to geolgist everywhere that was the rock types mash together with no care to then processes that shoukld have  put them there. All the boulders and rubble was metamorphic as was the exterior of Sundermount , but the walls of the caves inside were erroded sandstone, stalacties with the same sedimentary layers as the surrounding rock when their formation processes is entirely different and don't get me started on the lava flows. Sorry the dwarf in me, as well as the geologist, gets picky about that

So much this!  Game designers could benefit so much from a few basic geology lessons.  It might not be something 99% of players will directly notice, but getting the rocks right makes the whole game look better.  Most people don't know anything about geology, but everyone's seem thousands of variations of rocks in the real world.  Throwing in something that doesn't actually fit makes it look weird, even to a person who can't put their finger on what's wrong.

[Dutchess]

Teleporting mages, abominations appearing out of nowhere from the ground (Enemies Among Us quest), empty city that's supposed to be crowded.

[Sutekh]

No passage of time. e.g. In Hightown, there's some grass growing through the pavement. Seven years later, it's still there and haven't grown a millimeter more. Come to think of it, Kirkwall is very static in a lot of ways.

[commander root657]

Weapons on your back floating

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Sutekh wrote...

No passage of time. e.g. In Hightown, there's some grass growing through the pavement. Seven years later, it's still there and haven't grown a millimeter more. Come to think of it, Kirkwall is very static in a lot of ways.

Like, all of them?

[Rawgrim]

Firing 5 arrows up into the ceilling, 200 arrows hangs in the ceilling and fires down on your enemies

Skateboarding through a bunch of enemies

Unlimited suply of smokebombs for rogues

Talis

Darktown. The only place in the game where its never dark.

[Sutekh]

Mr Mxyzptlk wrote...

Sutekh wrote...

No passage of time. e.g. In Hightown, there's some grass growing through the pavement. Seven years later, it's still there and haven't grown a millimeter more. Come to think of it, Kirkwall is very static in a lot of ways.

Like, all of them?

You mean ways? Not really, no. There are things that change (some merchants, some NPCs, the Bone Pit), but not many. 

[dragondreamer]

renjility wrote...

Teleporting mages, abominations appearing out of nowhere from the ground (Enemies Among Us quest), empty city that's supposed to be crowded.

I wouldn't mind the teleporting mages if we didn't also have a codex that says teleportation is something mages can't do.  Except for every enemy mage you come across.    

[Dutchess]

dragondreamer wrote...

renjility wrote...

Teleporting mages, abominations appearing out of nowhere from the ground (Enemies Among Us quest), empty city that's supposed to be crowded.

I wouldn't mind the teleporting mages if we didn't also have a codex that says teleportation is something mages can't do.  Except for every enemy mage you come across.    

That's why it's an immersion breaker.

[ElitePinecone]

Sometimes spelling errors can break my immersion.

[Wulfram]

Waist high fences vs invisible walls, which is worse?

[Fiacre]

Wulfram wrote...

Waist high fences vs invisible walls, which is worse?

I think the invisible walls. (I remember running around in the desert in Fable 3 and suddenly bam! invisble wall. And then I turned and walked into another direction and bam! next inviible wall.)

But let's be honest, both are pretty terrible. Playing KoA at the moment, and I'm this badass who can defy fate and literally beat people to death with it and cause freakin earthquakes and stuff, but can't take a large step. It's just. What. (And so are puddles that you can't walk through. Having the ability to swim would be awesome.)

[Renmiri1]

Sutekh wrote...

No passage of time. e.g. In Hightown, there's some grass growing through the pavement. Seven years later, it's still there and haven't grown a millimeter more. Come to think of it, Kirkwall is very static in a lot of ways.

Fenris mansion littered with corpses that never decay 


PS: Invisible walls can be fun though.. In WoW there are a bunch of them where you can climb on and walk on water, walk on air, take shortcuts or throw an enemy in PVP and get them stuck 

Or hide under a city, talking on trade and targeting n00bs with laser and they can never reach or see you 

Modifié par Renmiri1, 06 avril 2013 - 05:10 .

[FenrirBlackDragon]

...The glitch associated with Templar armor and female elves was pretty immersion breaking. Then again, it was quite comical to have floating hands and backwards armor.

[Twisted Path]

Flamingdropbear wrote...

Knowing the unknownable - How the hell did Hawke know where to take all the bits of garbage in fetch quests? How did she know what was important and not just vendor trash? If your making these quests again just shove a note on the Chanters board.

Yeah, the fetch quests in DA2 where you looted some random item then ran over to someone with a diamond over their head and clicked on them were the most horribly lazy bits of filler imaginable.

[Allan Schumacher]

EntropicAngel wrote...

I've come to the conclusion that "immersion" is ultimately a cinematic term.

And being cinematic, as well as by it's definition, it's unrelated to role-playing (if not the antithesis).

Thus, I really don't care about "immersion" all that much in a series I'm looking to for role-playing.

I find immersion to be that rather vagueish feeling that isn't really well defined, by which people will fall back on if something seems off but they can't quite put their finger on it.

When I see most people talk about it, I kind of equate to the idea of suspension of disbelief.  I also see the idea of those little details that help "enhance immersion."  Things you might not have even realized were there, but if removed would come across as taking away from the situation, even if you aren't able to describe why.


Take a good game, and add those little details, and you start making it a great game.  Of course, a bad game with all the little details just makes people wonder why you wasted your time on those little details when the rest of the game is so awful!

[jillabender]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I find immersion to be that rather vagueish feeling that isn't really well defined, by which people will fall back on if something seems off but they can't quite put their finger on it.

When I see most people talk about it, I kind of equate to the idea of suspension of disbelief.  I also see the idea of those little details that help "enhance immersion."  Things you might not have even realized were there, but if removed would come across as taking away from the situation, even if you aren't able to describe why.


Take a good game, and add those little details, and you start making it a great game.  Of course, a bad game with all the little details just makes people wonder why you wasted your time on those little details when the rest of the game is so awful!

Well put! I think of immersion as that je-ne-sais-quoi that creates the experience of being completely lost in a game - like when I need to play just "one more turn" of Alpha Centauri, or when I can't fall asleep because I'm still busy day-dreaming about the adventures that Sianna the City Elf warden is having.

Any game that can do that is clearly doing something right, but the elements that lend themselves to creating that kind of experience will of course vary depending on the type of game.

EntropicAngel wrote...

Indeed.

But just thinking about it, though--immersion is basically how much the game is pulling ME into it. And for role-playing, that's a problem--because I'M not in the game, my character is.

Thus, if the game is pulling ME in, convincing ME to react as I would, as opposed to my character...mightn't
that be considered a problem for role-playing?

Personally, the kind of immersive experience I look for in an RPG is the kind of experience where I'm able to get into the mindset of a character I've created who's distinct from me, such that I'm feeling what my character would be feeling, as opposed to what my reaction would be.

Of course, it depends on my mood - when playing DA:O for example, I'm sometimes calmly imagining what my character would be thinking and feeling, as opposed to feeling it with my character, and sometimes that's the kind of experience I'm looking for.

If you prefer to calmly examine your character's reactions from more of an outside perspective, I can understand why you might find that incompatible with the kind of intense experience of being lost in a game that I've described above.

Modifié par jillabender, 06 avril 2013 - 06:57 .