195 réponses à ce sujet

[jillabender]

EntropicAngel wrote...

jillabender wrote...

I'm also intrigued by what actors do. I wouldn't say that I have much talent when it comes to acting for an audience, but I think it would be interesting to take acting classes.

Oddly enough, I hate attention so I feel uncomfortable in acting situations--though I feel if that were not so, I would excel at Method acting.

Go for it!

Hehe, thanks for the encouragement!

[jillabender]

EntropicAngel wrote...

We all need a little shove towards the proverbial stage every now and again.

Indeed!

[Fishy]

something like this is immersive for me. Taking this for exemple ( I find this guy quite funny) .. When you climb the ladder and watch the Minotaur .. What does the Minotaur do ? HE LOOK AT YOU !!!! It's subtle and simple, but actually make all the difference in the world. The Beast actually feel more ''there'' just because of little thing like this. Which increase my immersion by a lot and I can lose myself in the fictionnal world they created. Of course I ''help'' myself to be immersed. For exemple when I talk to npc. I often make it more cinematic by finding the right angle.

If for exemple the beast just runned aimlessly after climbind the ladder and I was more limited in my movement (Like unable to fall because of an invisible wall) .. That would be immersion breaking for me. It's the little detail like this that make a good game great.

It's what I think anyway. Sometime you just have to help yourself to make thing better. If you play a game like Amnesia.. Play it in a dark room with good headphone during the night and alone. All the difference in the world.

Modifié par Suprez30, 06 avril 2013 - 09:56 .

[Dave of Canada]

EntropicAngel wrote...

One must be..."careful" that one's influence on their character is low--by that I mean, a renegade person  subconciously choosing choices that fit with their worldview like domination and power, or a paragon/bleeding heart (I really dislike the relationship between those two fostered on this site, not necessarily in the games) always choosing the supposed underdog.

Meh, I've always played Renegade as a bad cop who--because of his spectre status--is above the law. I kill the Feros Colonists despite that being counter-productive to my pro-humanity view and I spare Balak after shooting him a few times because I wanted to make him suffer but killing him would serve little purpose.

I'm just very spiteful of the Paragon / pro-Mage mind-set because consequences feel like they're tailored to a popularity contest, the majority almost always having their choices and decisions work out and the minority always being told "WRONG". 

Fast Jimmy wrote...

For what it is worth, I loved playing the dwarves, because they were most likely to have non-religious view points of any of the origins.

My Dwarf Noble is a zealot of the Stone. 

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 06 avril 2013 - 09:59 .

[Maverick827]

Immersion is broken for me whenever I can notice an element of the game that doesn't quite fit into the established rules of world and then deduce a real-world reason for the discrepancy. How "bad" I consider the break depends on the real-world reason itself. For instance:

1. Quest markers. Some quest objectives are just really obscure; some people are just really dumb. I consider quest markers harmless because not only can they actually have a reason to exist ("here, let me mark it on your map"), but even if they don't, it's just so common that I don't even notice them that much anymore. It helps if the game allows you to turn them off, or doesn't have them for "mystery" or "treasure hunt" quests.

2. Underwear scenes. Obviously these were due to the politics of nudity in the United States and the relationship between game ratings and sales. Since I don't consider sex scenes to be important at all, this really doesn't bother me (and is essentially solved with "fade to black" scenes).

3. Restricted weapon systems (e.g. rogues cannot use two-handed weapons, mages cannot use bows). This is typically done to make balancing classes easier. This bothers me, but I don't blame the developers for doing it (unless the game is just a shallow dungeon runner, which requires diverse classes to be fun).

4. Chainmail bikinis, high-heel plate boots, all women have huge breasts, all guys have tree-trunk necks, etc. Obviously these exist solely because the developers want to appeal to thirteen year old boys, or have the mindset of thirteen year old boys themselves, or both. This is an unforgivable break. It offends me and I definitely blame the developers for including it. I won't even buy this product if I know about it before hand, or I'll stay away from sequels if I buy the game unwittingly.

I suppose the way you can look at it is, if something breaks my immersion but it's not a big deal, I can jump right back in quickly. But if it breaks my immersion and I'm sitting there cursing at the developers for giving the best plate armor in the game cleavage and a midriff on female characters, or the Conan the Barbarian treatment on male characters, then I'll be too busy being angry to ever jump back in.

Modifié par Maverick827, 06 avril 2013 - 10:19 .

[Wulfram]

I think I tend to play semi self-inserts, particularly on first playthroughs.

The characters don't necessarily make the choices I would make, but they do make the choices I think I would make if I'd lived their lifes, which are obviously very different from my own. I'm not a female elf, my parents weren't killed by Batarian slavers and this obviously changes things. On subsequent playthroughs I tend to add additional spins, to allow me to explore different choices - I might add a strong religous faith, or tweak up the ruthlessness. And I could never play a character I didn't basically like and understand where they;re coming from - when I try I just lose interest

And ideally they develop their own characters more as the game progresses, though this isn't reliable. Needs good writing from the game, and something to click in my head

[Dave of Canada]

EntropicAngel wrote...

But regardless of that, it looks like you're letting your personal feelings define what characters you play. Is that not a type of self-insertion?

Depends by what one means by personal feelings. In Mass Effect 1, I used to always play Paragon because I never took into consideration the setting and just made characters to play through the game with.

Upon going with the "in-character" approach, I had difficulty creating pro-unity characters because it's been... what? 20-30 years since humans discovered aliens? It's difficult to imagine people of our universe being tolerant of each other, let alone an alien Council which demands every race follows their rules or they're labeled as criminals (Terminus).

So technically, yes. Personal feelings do influence the creation of the character, the choices they take and varies greatly though. There's a few consistencies between characters but they're rarely the "same".

Same thing with Walking Dead, everyone was starving and we discover supplies. I've never done the decision to leave the supplies behind because I can't for the life of me imagine anyone saying "NO" in that situation.

[Wulfram]

EntropicAngel wrote...

I would argue that this is actually a way to understand different viewpoints. And understanding different viewpoints is very important--not agreeing with them, necessarily, but understanding definitely.

I do play characters with quite different viewpoints, I just need to be able to construct for myself a story of how they got there, so that I can still like them

[Twisted Path]

It seems like the sense of "immersion" is somewhat more important in open world games than story-based games. That having been said I would love to see Bioware try to tell more of their stories through gameplay rather than all in cutscenes. I think Bioware games have a problem with there being an impenetrable iron curtain between the world we see playing the game and the world we see in cutscenes and it's often really jarring.

Cutscene Hawke and Cutscene Commander Shepard have very different capabilities from their gameplay counterparts, for instance.

[Fiacre]

Oh, this discussion is really interesting! It's fascinating how many different approaches to this there are.

Wulfram wrote...
And I could never play a character I didn't basically like and understand where they;re coming from - when I try I just lose interest

And ideally they develop their own characters more as the game progresses, though this isn't reliable. Needs good writing from the game, and something to click in my head

It's very similar for me. It's why I can't play pro-Templar, for example, because while I think it would definitely be interesting, I've also been unable to come up with a character who's not only pro-Templar, but actually supports the Krikwall Circle and is still likeable for me. I think if that hadn't been so over the top -- with people like that Templar in Anders quest who practically turned female mages into his sex dolls via tranquility -- I'd be a lot more inclined towards it. Conversely I also always play character that are friends with Morrigan and always make Anora Queen and kill Alistair, simply because I adore Morrigan and Anora and can't stand Alistair. Could a character who doesn't do that be likeable? Sure. Could I think one up? Yep. But I just don't find it fun to play.

For example, while I managed not doing the latter two on my first playthrough, the second time I tried it and be friends with Alistair I ended up abandoning that character just before the Landsmeet because playing him had become far too irritating. While that certainly limits what characters I can play as, people can make the same decisions for vastly different reasons, so I still have enough variety to keep things interesting.


In regards to the game telling you that you made the wrong choice/tailoring consequences to the popular choices... I definitely agree that that shouldn't happen. While I don't disagree with consequences being favourable to one choice, they shouldn't always be so for the whole path associated with that choice (and of course, the opposite) -- so no "Paragon is always right" or "pro-mage will always have better results". I also think that while characters can --- and should -- judge your choices and you should be able to make the wrong choice (after all, not everything one does always turns out to be for the better), there shouldn't always be a right or wrong. And the choice that seems like the obviously right one -- or the obviously more moral one -- should certainly backfire on occasion.

Modifié par Fiacre, 06 avril 2013 - 11:03 .

[Renmiri1]

jillabender wrote...

EntropicAngel wrote...

jillabender wrote...

I'm also intrigued by what actors do. I wouldn't say that I have much talent when it comes to acting for an audience, but I think it would be interesting to take acting classes.

Oddly enough, I hate attention so I feel uncomfortable in acting situations--though I feel if that were not so, I would excel at Method acting.

Go for it!

Hehe, thanks for the encouragement!

Is lots of fun. I did it back in the day... And helps with shyness, fear of speaking in public, etc.. I highly recommend it

I found it similar to writing more  than similar to role playing. At least when I write...  I usually don't know what my characters will say or do before I start writting, it just flows from the personality I came up for them. Acting felt very similar. I remember some exercise where I was a gardener and I wanted to slap someone for stepping on my roses. Funny thing is the feeling of outrage and worry for my roses wasn't plannned or coached or "roleplayed", it just flooded me and I went along with it. 

Guy was  stepping on a wood stage with no garden or roses in sight 

Modifié par Renmiri1, 06 avril 2013 - 11:18 .

[jillabender]

Twisted Path wrote...

It seems like the sense of "immersion" is somewhat more important in open world games than story-based games. That having been said I would love to see Bioware try to tell more of their stories through gameplay rather than all in cutscenes. I think Bioware games have a problem with there being an impenetrable iron curtain between the world we see playing the game and the world we see in cutscenes and it's often really jarring.

I agree - ideally, I would like to see a more seamless integration of story and gameplay.

Renmiri wrote...

Is lots of fun. I did it back in the day... And helps with shyness, fear of speaking in public, etc.. I highly recommend it

I found it similar to writing more  than similar to role playing. At least when I write... [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie] I
usually don't know what my characters will say or do before I start
writting, it just flows from the personality I came up for them. Acting
felt very similar. I remember some exercise where I was a gardener and I
wanted to slap someone for stepping on my roses. Funny thing is the
feeling of outrage and worry for my roses wasn't plannned or coached or
"roleplayed", it just flooded me and I went along with it. 

Guy was  stepping on a wood stage with no garden or roses in sight [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie]

Haha, thanks for sharing that story! Nobody but nobody messes with gardeners!

Modifié par jillabender, 06 avril 2013 - 11:43 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

All the effort that went into modeling that bow is wasted when the player notices there is no bow string.

Modifié par EpicBoot2daFace, 06 avril 2013 - 11:47 .

[Chiramu]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Bad VA work, picking a dialogue option I didn't mean to pick, silly character designs, and stiff animations.

The actors were more-or-less fine, I say the blame rests with the voice director for not having higher standard as they get actors to go through the lines.

[Maverick827]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

All the effort that went into modeling that bow is wasted when I notice there is no bow string.

I fixed that for you.  You're welcome!

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Maverick827 wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

All the effort that went into modeling that bow is wasted when I notice there is no bow string.

I fixed that for you.  You're welcome!

Well, I noticed.

[Rawgrim]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Maverick827 wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

All the effort that went into modeling that bow is wasted when I notice there is no bow string.

I fixed that for you.  You're welcome!

Well, I noticed.

Truth be told: lack of bowstrings is just 1 of the problems with bows looking like that.

[Twisted Path]

krul2k wrote...

The one time i had my immersion broke(if you can call it that) was in me3, was my first play through i had been at the computer for 25 hours solid i think it was i had made a few dialogue mistakes so i was a wee emotional wreck, landed on thessia was going through it then shepard started shouting about once they find the artifact it will end the war, i stopped an was like wtf did i just hear, carried on an she said it again an it bugged me to the point i slammed the mouse down an went to bed lol, about 40 play throughs later i have yet to discover and understand at what point shepard finds out or even knows what the artifact is/does on thessia before she starts spewing forth with it will stop the war nonsense

Yeah, that was a really weird moment in Mass Effect 3, though I thought the game was full of those.  By that I mean weird moments where the game just suddenly decides what the player character thinks and feels about stuff, often involving the PC acting like a compleat idiot. I hope there's none of that in Dragon Age 3.

[Solmanian]

Hmm. Yup bioware games really need a jump button.

[Rawgrim]

Twisted Path wrote...

krul2k wrote...

The one time i had my immersion broke(if you can call it that) was in me3, was my first play through i had been at the computer for 25 hours solid i think it was i had made a few dialogue mistakes so i was a wee emotional wreck, landed on thessia was going through it then shepard started shouting about once they find the artifact it will end the war, i stopped an was like wtf did i just hear, carried on an she said it again an it bugged me to the point i slammed the mouse down an went to bed lol, about 40 play throughs later i have yet to discover and understand at what point shepard finds out or even knows what the artifact is/does on thessia before she starts spewing forth with it will stop the war nonsense

Yeah, that was a really weird moment in Mass Effect 3, though I thought the game was full of those.  By that I mean weird moments where the game just suddenly decides what the player character thinks and feels about stuff, often involving the PC acting like a compleat idiot. I hope there's none of that in Dragon Age 3.

I missed that bit on Thessia, actually. But I noticed a wierd one after you defeat that big reaper. Tali is with you in that mission. the reaper blabbers on about this and that to Shep. Tali just stands there, and doesn`t even comment about the conversation later. Wich, if I remember correctly, was one of the arguments for the indoctrination theory. Only shep comunicates with the reapers. Nobody else acnowledges those conversations, even when they are right next to it as it happens.