195 réponses à ce sujet

[Renmiri1]

Rawgrim wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

rofl!!!

Really ? Shall I count the ways DA is not realistic ? Lets start with the name DRAGON Age

Dragons aren't real they are the wanking fantasy of somebody who's into sword and sorcery

Pot, meet kettle. Be nice to kettle or your glasshouse might meet the stone you just threw at kettle

That knife you twisting ? Cutting up you too buddy 

Dragons are realistic. In the games we are told they excist. Ergo, in Thedas they are very very real. Its called Lore.

However we are also shown that the laws of physics are real in thedas. just like in our world. And when that gets broken the immersion suffers.

But the Vael's family bow is a legendary weapon, with magic abilities. It can be just a focal point for a magically cast bow for all we know.

[Renmiri1]

Monica21 wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

rofl!!!

Really ? Shall I count the ways DA is not realistic ? Lets start with the name DRAGON Age

Dragons aren't real they are the wanking fantasy of somebody who's into sword and sorcery

Pot, meet kettle. Be nice to kettle or your glasshouse might meet the stone you just threw at kettle

That knife you twisting ? Cutting up you too buddy 

How is it cutting him up? It's a ridiculous looking bow. Also, no matter what fantasy world you live in, bows simply don't work without bowstrings. If there's a codex entry in Inquisition stating that it has something to do with magic, then fine, but so far, it's an entirely useless piece of wood that only kind of looks like a bow.

And thank you for (again) reminding us that Dragon Age isn't real. We know that though. We really, really do. 

Bows can actually work without a physical bow

http://elderscrolls....nd_Bow_(Skyrim)

Modifié par Renmiri1, 07 avril 2013 - 06:43 .

[Rawgrim]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

rofl!!!

Really ? Shall I count the ways DA is not realistic ? Lets start with the name DRAGON Age

Dragons aren't real they are the wanking fantasy of somebody who's into sword and sorcery

Pot, meet kettle. Be nice to kettle or your glasshouse might meet the stone you just threw at kettle

That knife you twisting ? Cutting up you too buddy 

Dragons are realistic. In the games we are told they excist. Ergo, in Thedas they are very very real. Its called Lore.

However we are also shown that the laws of physics are real in thedas. just like in our world. And when that gets broken the immersion suffers.

But the Vael's family bow is a legendary weapon, with magic abilities. It can be just a focal point for a magically cast bow for all we know.

True. But why does Seb "pull back the bowstring" when he fires. if the bow is magic and never had a bowstring to begin with? And if someone has a magical bow that has no use for bowstrings or whatsnot, why does it never get mentioned? If the bow is THAT legendary and THAT unique?

[Rawgrim]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

rofl!!!

Really ? Shall I count the ways DA is not realistic ? Lets start with the name DRAGON Age

Dragons aren't real they are the wanking fantasy of somebody who's into sword and sorcery

Pot, meet kettle. Be nice to kettle or your glasshouse might meet the stone you just threw at kettle

That knife you twisting ? Cutting up you too buddy 

How is it cutting him up? It's a ridiculous looking bow. Also, no matter what fantasy world you live in, bows simply don't work without bowstrings. If there's a codex entry in Inquisition stating that it has something to do with magic, then fine, but so far, it's an entirely useless piece of wood that only kind of looks like a bow.

And thank you for (again) reminding us that Dragon Age isn't real. We know that though. We really, really do. 

Bows can actually work without a physical bow

http://elderscrolls....nd_Bow_(Skyrim)

Thats a spell. Only mages can use magic in Thedas. And none of them can summon bows with a spell. Different magic system in Thedas than in Tamriel.

[Renmiri1]

Rawgrim wrote...


Thats a spell. Only mages can use magic in Thedas. And none of them can summon bows with a spell. Different magic system in Thedas than in Tamriel.

Both Bianca and Vael's family bow can only work with magic so to me they are "Bound Bows" who use the bow / crossbow shape more to aim than to use the physical propelling abilities of the weapon.

Bianca breaks my immersion a lot more. As engineer, I do know that no matter what elastic material Varric is using it would never propell 200 arrows per shot and if he is using any "gun" mechanism then he would run out of gunpowder or bullets pretty fast.  The thing is almost a submachine gun FFS!

Vael's Bow looks imba to me and I'm blind as a bat so I never noticed it had no string. I did notice it wouldn't curve well but I assumed the force propelling the arrows was more magic than physical.

To me both Bianca and the other advanced bows in the game are a class specific type of staff that allows for clas specific "Bound bow" archery spells, where the "bow" physical part of it is only used for aiming and triggering the firing (casting) of the spell 

Modifié par Renmiri1, 07 avril 2013 - 06:48 .

[Rawgrim]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...


Thats a spell. Only mages can use magic in Thedas. And none of them can summon bows with a spell. Different magic system in Thedas than in Tamriel.

Both Bianca and Vael's family bow can only work with magic so to me they are "Bound Bows" who use the bow / crossbow shape more to aim than to use the physical propelling abilities of the weapon.

Bianca breaks my immersion a lot more. As engineer, I do know that no matter what elastic material Varric is using it would never propell 200 arrows per shot and if he is using any "gun" mechanism then he would run out of gunpowder or bullets pretty fast.  The thing is almost a submachine gun FFS!

Vael's Bow looks imba to me and I'm blind as a bat so I never noticed it had no string. I did notice it wouldn't curve well but I assumed the force propelling the arrows was more magic than physical.

Well the weapons arn`t summoned from "hell" via a spell, and they don`t last for a set amount of minutes\\hours before disapearing.

Sebastian`s bow does the same as Bianca. Just use the ridicilous Hail of Arrows "power" and see for yourself. Most of the archery combat in DA 2 (and Awakening) is downright silly, and more than a little immersion breaking.

[Twisted Path]

Realistic may not be a good word but I prefer a fantasy world that looks and feels lived in. More thought put into the utility of some of the (fantastic) objects and set-pieces, stuff looks weather worn, you can see where and how people cook their dinners (I loved all the cooking pots, tables covered in food and campsites spread around Skyrim in what seemed like a thoughtful way,) that sort of thing.

A shiny bow with a bunch of janky, spikey stuff on it just for the sake of looking cool is the opposite of that.

[Rawgrim]

Twisted Path wrote...

Realistic may not be a good word but I prefer a fantasy world that looks and feels lived in. More thought put into the utility of some of the (fantastic) objects and set-pieces, stuff looks weather worn, you can see where and how people cook their dinners (I loved all the cooking pots, tables covered in food and campsites spread around Skyrim in what seemed like a thoughtful way,) that sort of thing.

A shiny bow with a bunch of janky, spikey stuff on it just for the sake of looking cool is the opposite of that.

Check out Ultima 7. In that game you could actually see people make their food, put it on the table, and eat it. You could make your own food that way too if you wished.

[Renmiri1]

Don't disagree with you there, Archery in DAA and DA2 is not physically possible.

To me both Bianca and the other advanced bows in the game are a class specific type of staff that allows for class specific "Bound bow" archery spell mechanism, where the "bow" physical part of it is only used for aiming and triggering the firing (casting) of the spell.

Doesn't break my immersion and feel out of place among all the other rogue / warrior abilities. Mages might be the only ones to be able to cast magic AT WILL but I believe magic powers make possible and enhance a lot of other things in Thedas. Non-magic warriors and rogues use specific weapons and skills to trigger very specific spells, just like a Rivainy fertility talisman may be able to make someone pregnant, a Vael Bow can shoot unlimited arrows with no elasticity on the curving part or string needed. If the force propelling unlimited arrows it is not physical then the elasticity of the bows materials are irrelevant.

Modifié par Renmiri1, 07 avril 2013 - 06:56 .

[Rawgrim]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Don't disagree with you there, Archery in DAA and DA2 is not physically possible.

To me both Bianca and the other advanced bows in the game are a class specific type of staff that allows for class specific "Bound bow" archery spell mechanism, where the "bow" physical part of it is only used for aiming and triggering the firing (casting) of the spell.

Doesn't break my immersion and feel out of place among all the other rogue / warrior abilities. Mages might be the only ones to be able to cast magic AT WILL but I believe magic powers and enhances a lot of other things in Thedas. Non-magic warriors and rogues use specific weapons and skills to trigger very specific spells, just like a Rivainy fertility talisman may be able to make someone pregnant, a Vael Bow can shoot unlimited arrows with no elasticity on the curving part or string needed. If the force propelling unlimited arrows it is not physical then the elasticity of the bows materials are irrelevant.

all bows have unlimited arrows.

[Renmiri1]

Rawgrim wrote...

all bows have unlimited arrows.

Not physically possible. Violates sooo many physics laws you wouldn't believe!

Which means "arrows" in DA are not physical entities, they HAVE TO be magical.

Ergo, to propel magical arrows without physical force is acceptable, if you accept the premise of magic arrows

QED

Modifié par Renmiri1, 07 avril 2013 - 06:59 .

[Rawgrim]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

all bows have unlimited arrows.

Not physically possible. Violates sooo many physics laws you wouldn't believe!

Which means "arrows" in DA are not physical entities, they HAVE TO be magical.

Ergo, to propel magical arrows without physical force is acceptable, if you accept the premise of magic arrows

QED

There are no arrows because the game is simplified. The same goes for not having to eat or rest.

But yes, if a game has ranged combat, you should have to have ammo for it too. Most rpgs include the need for ammo. DA, for some reason, doesn`t.. This is immersion breaking too, by the way. But not as much as firing 200 arrows up into a ceilling and have them rain down on a small area for 10 seconds - miraculously missing people who just happens to be friends with you.

[gangly369]

Honestly, for me the weapons don't matter. I'm not going to sit there and say 'Why is it that I can fire off a hundred arrows in the span of 5 seconds?' I always keep in mind that this is a fantasy game I'm playing, there are different laws at work here (EX: fire breathing dragons, people shooting ice out of their hands, zombies and spirits, etc.) My 'immersion' into the game isn't suddenly going to disappear simply because of some gameplay mechanic.

The only time that I will start to feel uncomfortable with a game is when, through the story, something just spontaneously happens. At the moment, I really can't recall anything like that happening in any bioware game I've played (KOTOR to present), hence why I'm still playing their games lol.

Of course, I'm not trying to dismiss other peoples worries. I can see how some people would get frustrated with watching the PC being unable to go past a little ledge when, in combat, you're able to jump 10 feet in the air. I guess maybe I just don't get as invested into the small details like that? I don't know, it just feels to me that there are bigger things to worry about at the end of the day.

Edit: Ah nevermind, now I remember. The only really big thing that made me shake my head was the re-use of that same bloody cave in DA2. That got annoying real quick lol.

Modifié par gangly369, 07 avril 2013 - 07:08 .

[Renmiri1]

Same here, weapon mechanics in most movies and games is usually impossible anyway. Superman flying counterclockwise to travel back in time ? Blow on wind sail to propel a boat you are sitting on ? UGH



So I myself have gotten used to simply go with the "magic explains it" and ignore the stuff 


What has broken my immersion a lot though is hands. And reused caves

Modifié par Renmiri1, 07 avril 2013 - 07:32 .

[Renmiri1]

Rawgrim wrote...


But yes, if a game has ranged combat, you should have to have ammo for it too. Most rpgs include the need for ammo. DA, for some reason, doesn`t.. This is immersion breaking too, by the way. But not as much as firing 200 arrows up into a ceilling and have them rain down on a small area for 10 seconds - miraculously missing people who just happens to be friends with you.

And we come full circle to Sebastian's bow being just a drop in the bucket of unreal stuff on a fantasy game called DRAGON Age.

[Rawgrim]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...


But yes, if a game has ranged combat, you should have to have ammo for it too. Most rpgs include the need for ammo. DA, for some reason, doesn`t.. This is immersion breaking too, by the way. But not as much as firing 200 arrows up into a ceilling and have them rain down on a small area for 10 seconds - miraculously missing people who just happens to be friends with you.

And we come full circle to Sebastian's bow being just a drop in the bucket of unreal stuff on a fantasy game called DRAGON Age.

As i said before, wich you chose to ignore, dragons excist in thedas. they are a reality. its in the lore. Its what writers call "realism within an unrealistic setting". As long as its not stated otherwise, the reader or the player is to assume everything functions like it does in our word. Dragons are explained. How magic works is explained. Means its realistic within the setting. Bows having no bowstrings or Talis leaping 50 feet through the air etc, isn`t explained. This also goes against everything the established in the first game. Wich makes it even more immersion breaking.

[Rawgrim]

Filament wrote...

I always saw unlimited arrows as just a gameplay abstraction so that you don't have to carry around ****ty arrows everywhere. Making it magic would be all kinds of lore breaking. Similarly the improbable archery talents are an indulgence to players' desire to do kewl stuff, because let's be honest, plink plink plink ad infinitum is boring. But calling that magic would also be all kinds of lore breaking. They're just things you suspend disbelief for because it's a video game.

Exactly. But when suspension of disbelief becomes a series of unnessecary, and downright dumb shortcuts, it becomes immersion breaking as well.

[Monica21]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

rofl!!!

Really ? Shall I count the ways DA is not realistic ? Lets start with the name DRAGON Age

Dragons aren't real they are the wanking fantasy of somebody who's into sword and sorcery

Pot, meet kettle. Be nice to kettle or your glasshouse might meet the stone you just threw at kettle

That knife you twisting ? Cutting up you too buddy 

How is it cutting him up? It's a ridiculous looking bow. Also, no matter what fantasy world you live in, bows simply don't work without bowstrings. If there's a codex entry in Inquisition stating that it has something to do with magic, then fine, but so far, it's an entirely useless piece of wood that only kind of looks like a bow.

And thank you for (again) reminding us that Dragon Age isn't real. We know that though. We really, really do. 

Bows can actually work without a physical bow

http://elderscrolls....nd_Bow_(Skyrim)

It's an entirely different game universe and therefore not applicable to DA.

[Renmiri1]

Filament wrote...

I always saw unlimited arrows as just a gameplay abstraction so that you don't have to carry around ****ty arrows everywhere. Making it magic would be all kinds of lore breaking. Similarly the improbable archery talents are an indulgence to players' desire to do kewl stuff, because let's be honest, plink plink plink ad infinitum is boring. But calling that magic would also be all kinds of lore breaking. They're just things you suspend disbelief for because it's a video game.

Well what personally breaks your immersion is different from what breaks mine and it's ok because immersion is something very personal.

As for magic arrows being lore breaking, I just don't see it. You are metagaming game design decisions which is the opposite of using lore. I am seeing the same thing and NOT metagaming, just using a possibility that isn't outright discounted by lore to explain it within canon.

Every single high level skill for rogues and warriors is phisically impossible. Either you stop believing on any move that is not possible on real life, like a warrior stunning 5 opponents with a bump to the floor, or you start "seeing" and believing willingly - willing suspension of disbelief - that something in this made up world makes a pushing a sword forcefully into the ground create a "stun wave" out of thin air. Sounds like magic to me.

Magic is part of Thedas. Mages can amnipulate it better than non-mages and can do it at will but every single being in Thedas uses magic to some extent. That is "lore" IMHO.

Modifié par Renmiri1, 07 avril 2013 - 07:43 .

[Renmiri1]

Monica21 wrote...

no matter what fantasy world you live in, bows simply don't work without bowstrings. If there's a codex entry in Inquisition stating that it has something to do with magic, then fine, but so far, it's an entirely useless piece of wood that only kind of looks like a bow.



(Skyrim) is an entirely different game universe and therefore not applicable to DA.

DA bows have infinite supply of ammo. No bow in real life can do that. " If there's a codex entry in Inquisition stating that it has something to do with magic, then fine, but so far, it's an entirely useless piece of wood that only kind of looks like a bow. "

Or they are a highly specific staff - as in the sense of a wooden piece of equipment that focus magic - and allow the user to cast magically created arrows propelled by magic, aimed physically and triggered by drawing a bowstring.

A magic particle propelled by magic ? Makes sense exists, mages can cast fireballs after all
A piece of wood allowing you to focus magic and enhancing some aspects of that magic? - exists on codex (staffs). Does the codex say they have to be pointy and long and shaped like a wooden pole ?
Staffs can aim magic and enhance magic and can only be used by trained individuals.

A staff shaped less like a polearm and more like a bow is not impossible. 

We know Archery on DA can not physically work, needs magic (infinite ammo). Maybe Archery is a very specific magic talent that only works with very specific staffs and can not be cast at will. And unlike the bound Bow of skyrim, the only thing that is cast  is a moving arrow that lasts only 1 second. 


Works for me and doesn't break lore IMHO

Modifié par Renmiri1, 07 avril 2013 - 08:29 .

[Rawgrim]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

no matter what fantasy world you live in, bows simply don't work without bowstrings. If there's a codex entry in Inquisition stating that it has something to do with magic, then fine, but so far, it's an entirely useless piece of wood that only kind of looks like a bow.



(Skyrim) is an entirely different game universe and therefore not applicable to DA.

DA bows have infinite supply of ammo. No bow in real life can do that. " If there's a codex entry in Inquisition stating that it has something to do with magic, then fine, but so far, it's an entirely useless piece of wood that only kind of looks like a bow. "

Or they are a highly specific staff - as in the sense of a wooden piece of equipment that focus magic - and allow the user to cast magically created arrows propelled by magic, aimed physically and triggered by drawing a bowstring.

A magic particle propelled by magic ? Makes sense exists, mages can cast fireballs after all
A piece of wood allowing you to focus magic and enhancing some aspects of that magic? - exists on codex (staffs). Does the codex say they have to be pointy and long and shaped like a wooden pole ?
Staffs can aim magic and enhance magic and can only be used by trained individuals.

A staff shaped less like a polearm and more like a bow is not impossible. 

We know Archery on DA can not physically work, needs magic (infinite ammo). Maybe Archery is a very specific magic talent that only works with very specific staffs and can not be cast at will. And unlike the bound Bow of skyrim, the only thing that is cast  is a moving arrow that lasts only 1 second. 

Works for me and doesn't break lore IMHO

The staffs are explained in the lore. The bows arn`t.

[Wulfram]

I don't really mind if things are strictly realistic, but things like bow spikes are a bit annoying because I can't see what they're actually supposed to do? Do you hit people with them or what?

Bow strings don't bother me because I've spent so much time playing Bioware games that it's normal to me.

[Renmiri1]

Good point.

Immersion is a personal thing. I just get annoyed when people get "holier than though" and say "This bow is not realistic" on one breath while playing a fantasy game on another.


Spikes work for me because I see bows as a higlhy specific kind of staff. To me the bow's spikes have the same function as a crystal or a hala head on a staff. Magic focus.

And bow strings are invisible to me without my glasses 

Modifié par Renmiri1, 07 avril 2013 - 08:38 .