222 réponses à ce sujet

[Mangalores]

So the Thessia mission ends and everyone is doom and gloom that it is lost. I found that kind of weird. Why is Thessia somehow worse off than Earth or Palawan? Earth looked as bad as Thessia within the first 15 minutes of invasion and Palawan had huge swathes of its lands burning.

It is said that the Asari don't like conventional combat does them in but virtually all other races except the Turians at Palawan (and it doesn't precisely work out for them ) resort to guerilla tactics in hopes of at least damaging something. And who supposedly excels at that kind of war and has an entire population where each individual can make Husks useless?  The Codex entry also says the local Asari militaries are individually strong... how is that bad in a guerrilla war that each Asari republic/city can keep on fighting without central logistics or command? Decentralization is great to not get destroyed by conventional means.

Anderson on Earth resorts precisely to that kind of war and also says that the Reapers try to entice human populations to surrender. So if Thessia is lost then shouldn't Earth be in the toilet by then?

I mean, it would make more sense if it first appeared that the Asari - given their fleets seemed the only ones capable to tango with individual Reaper capital shops - would have looked like they could turn this around and then somehow their homeworld gets invaded but somehow I missed that memo.

It's a strange tone as if the Asari homeworld got somehow destroyed worse when it just looks as bad off as anyone else's.

[David7204]

Thessia is going to be worse off than Palavan because the turians are much more militant than the asari.

As for Earth...it isn't worse. But losing Thessia is a much bigger blow since it's the oldest and most central of the homeworlds.

Modifié par David7204, 06 avril 2013 - 08:12 .

[ThinkSharp]

The tone of the game takes a turn toward doom because it's the first time in the trilogy that Shepard is outright defeated and can't deliver on his/her promises.

Modifié par ThinkSharp, 06 avril 2013 - 08:13 .

[mtmercydave09]

I think it's more doom and gloom with regards to Thessia, because Shep and company were so close to getting the data.

That and it's the first time Shep is really "defeated", although he really wasn't since it took a gunship to do it.

Modifié par mtmercydave09, 06 avril 2013 - 08:15 .

[Yestare7]

 
Homeplanet of the oldest and most powerfull race of the galaxy is defeated.
...aaaand, it makes Liara cry:(






Y

[cyrexwingblade]

Thessia's aftermath is the biggest game-breaker for me, to be honest. I don't mind LIara... except for that piece of the trilogy. I would've been happy to offer condolences, but after the fourth screaming fit about the horrors of war AFTER we've watched Earth, Palavan, and numerous other planets/friends die to them is JUST aggravating. My Shep is a patient lady, and very symapthetic, but even she was starting to look at Liara funny for it.

Her comments during the Lesuss mission were similar. We've been mowing down husks for 3 games, but *Asari* husks make her freak out? I'd understand something like "I know we've been fighting husks for a while, Shepard, but seeing an Asari changed like that... I... I'm so sorry. I didn't understand before." THAT would make me sympathetic and actually maintain character stability.

As it is? She comes off as self-obsessed and aggravating. I still play Paragon when she's crying in her cabin, because she's taken the time to be alone, and is being hit emotionally by it. Everything else? My fuse burned real low.

[Sibu]

Yestare7 wrote...

 
Homeplanet of the oldest and most powerfull race of the galaxy is defeated.
...aaaand, it makes Liara cry:(






Y

Oldest? Yes. Powerfull? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[Barquiel]

Thessia fared most likely better than Earth and Palaven. The planet falls near the end of the war. Palaven was under siege for a long time and it was the site of sustained fighting. Earth was also harvested much longer than Thessia.
Shep mentioned some casualty statistics in the leaked script (1 billion deaths on earth, 400 million on Thessia), but those lines were cut, I think.

[Wulfram]

I think to an extent they underplay exactly how bad the situation on Earth really is. You get a few hints occasionally - stuff like EDI talking about how Earth's leaders were being invited onto the Reapers to get indoctrinated - but most of the time we only really talk to Anderson who is leading the resistance, rather than getting the reality of a conquered Earth being shown to us.

While Thessia, it's fall is played up because this is supposed to be a down swing in mood. And maybe they don't have as many QECs, which seems to be a new human technology, so we're more completely cut of from Thessia than we are from Earth

Modifié par Wulfram, 06 avril 2013 - 08:24 .

[Sibu]

Barquiel wrote...

Thessia fared most likely better than Earth and Palaven. The planet falls near the end of the war. Palaven was under siege for a long time and it was the site of sustained fighting. Earth was also harvested much longer than Thessia.
Shep mentioned some casualty statistics in the leaked script (1 billion deaths on earth, 400 million on Thessia), but those lines were cut, I think.

Nope, their planet was untouched until Shepard got there.

[ThinkSharp]

cyrexwingblade wrote...

Thessia's aftermath is the biggest game-breaker for me, to be honest. I don't mind LIara... except for that piece of the trilogy. I would've been happy to offer condolences, but after the fourth screaming fit about the horrors of war AFTER we've watched Earth, Palavan, and numerous other planets/friends die to them is JUST aggravating. My Shep is a patient lady, and very symapthetic, but even she was starting to look at Liara funny for it.

Her comments during the Lesuss mission were similar. We've been mowing down husks for 3 games, but *Asari* husks make her freak out? I'd understand something like "I know we've been fighting husks for a while, Shepard, but seeing an Asari changed like that... I... I'm so sorry. I didn't understand before." THAT would make me sympathetic and actually maintain character stability.

As it is? She comes off as self-obsessed and aggravating. I still play Paragon when she's crying in her cabin, because she's taken the time to be alone, and is being hit emotionally by it. Everything else? My fuse burned real low.

Thessia definitely brought out some flaws in Liara. I think it really emphasized that part in (human) nature that you can, with genuine compassion, say to a grieving friend "I'm sorry this happened to you" or "You have my sympathies", but you don't really ever get it until you experience the same.

Thessia and Lessus are Liara finally getting it, as you've said. The fact that it so unhinges her, shows a bit of her ME naivety and fish-out-of-water side that had been masked by ShadowBrokerdom.

(And, yes, it grates on the nerves a bit!)

Modifié par ThinkSharp, 06 avril 2013 - 08:31 .

[Wulfram]

cyrexwingblade wrote...

Thessia's aftermath is the biggest game-breaker for me, to be honest. I don't mind LIara... except for that piece of the trilogy. I would've been happy to offer condolences, but after the fourth screaming fit about the horrors of war AFTER we've watched Earth, Palavan, and numerous other planets/friends die to them is JUST aggravating. My Shep is a patient lady, and very symapthetic, but even she was starting to look at Liara funny for it.

Liara does make expressing her sorrow about Earth more or less the first thing she says IIRC.  And sounds heartbroken about Palaven too.  We even get a background conversation of her making sure Garrus is OK once they back on the Normandy.

So I don't think it's out of line for her to be finally broken by Thessia.

Though it does also highlight a bit of basic Asari arrogance - Thessia was something she was utterly unprepared for because the homeworld of the Asari falling was something that was unthinkable.

Modifié par Wulfram, 06 avril 2013 - 08:31 .

[GeneralMoskvin_2.0]

Yestare7 wrote...

...aaaand, it makes Liara cry:(

And up comes godly Javik, putting on his deal with it face.

[Barquiel]

cyrexwingblade wrote...

Thessia's aftermath is the biggest game-breaker for me, to be honest. I don't mind LIara... except for that piece of the trilogy. I would've been happy to offer condolences, but after the fourth screaming fit about the horrors of war AFTER we've watched Earth, Palavan, and numerous other planets/friends die to them is JUST aggravating. My Shep is a patient lady, and very symapthetic, but even she was starting to look at Liara funny for it.

Her comments during the Lesuss mission were similar. We've been mowing down husks for 3 games, but *Asari* husks make her freak out? I'd understand something like "I know we've been fighting husks for a while, Shepard, but seeing an Asari changed like that... I... I'm so sorry. I didn't understand before." THAT would make me sympathetic and actually maintain character stability.

As it is? She comes off as self-obsessed and aggravating. I still play Paragon when she's crying in her cabin, because she's taken the time to be alone, and is being hit emotionally by it. Everything else? My fuse burned real low.

Liara said on several occasions how sorry she is for Earth, both before and after Thessia. She also asked how Garrus is doing after Palaven. You're right, Liara cares more about her own species, but so does
everyone else. Shepard spends the entire game moping about Earth, and trying to get everyone to rally together to retake it when sending reinforcements to Thessia or Palaven would make much more sense. Like on Menae,when Primarch Victus is looking at Palaven being decimated, and Shepard is still pushing for him to come and help her retake Earth.

Modifié par Barquiel, 06 avril 2013 - 08:35 .

[Sibu]

GeneralMoskvin_2.0 wrote...

Yestare7 wrote...

...aaaand, it makes Liara cry:(

And up comes godly Javik, putting on his deal with it face.

Javik is awesome

[GeneralMoskvin_2.0]

Sibu wrote...

GeneralMoskvin_2.0 wrote...

Yestare7 wrote...

...aaaand, it makes Liara cry:(

And up comes godly Javik, putting on his deal with it face.

Javik is awesome

He is indeed. Every other ME3 squaddie except for Nyreen perhaps cries in a corner next to him.

[Matthias King]

I think a lot of it has to do with when it happens. By the time Thessia falls, they are starting to be really worn down. Everything just keeps getting worse, they can't seem to get ahead.

Thessia is no worse than Earth or Palaven per se, it's just that Thessia comes after they've already had to take seeing Earth and Palaven and other places go down the same way. It's just getting to them. Each world to fall is another defeat. It adds up.

Losing the "crown jewel" of Citadel space is definitely hard for the galaxy to take, but I think narratively it's mainly that the loss just keeps stacking up.

[ThinkSharp]

GeneralMoskvin_2.0 wrote...

He is indeed. Every other ME3 squaddie except for Nyreen perhaps cries in a corner next to him.

What about Javik vs. Nyreen?

[mtmercydave09]

Matthias King wrote...

I think a lot of it has to do with when it happens. By the time Thessia falls, they are starting to be really worn down. Everything just keeps getting worse, they can't seem to get ahead.

Thessia is no worse than Earth or Palaven per se, it's just that Thessia comes after they've already had to take seeing Earth and Palaven and other places go down the same way. It's just getting to them. Each world to fall is another defeat. It adds up.

Losing the "crown jewel" of Citadel space is definitely hard for the galaxy to take, but I think narratively it's mainly that the loss just keeps stacking up.

Agreed, it's the "piling on" factor, along with the factor that at Thessia that was up until that point the closest they have been to finding out about the Catalyst.

[GeneralMoskvin_2.0]

ThinkSharp wrote...

GeneralMoskvin_2.0 wrote...

He is indeed. Every other ME3 squaddie except for Nyreen perhaps cries in a corner next to him.

What about Javik vs. Nyreen?

Nyreen has DAT VOICE. But Javik has dat voice and dat awesomeness in general. In the end, he wins.

[DeinonSlayer]

But... but... "crown jewel of the galaxy!" "Apex of democracy!" "Beating heart of galactic love!"

How could one not be devastated by the fate which befell the blue discount lesbians that everybody likes?

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 06 avril 2013 - 09:02 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

mtmercydave09 wrote...

I think it's more doom and gloom with regards to Thessia, because Shep and company were so close to getting the data.

That and it's the first time Shep is really "defeated", although he really wasn't since it took a gunship to do it.

You forgot Kai Leng's plot armor of invincibility. And Shepard's brain of stupidity. As in "Why the f*** didn't Shepard, Javik and Liara just shoot Kai Leng at point blank range?"

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 06 avril 2013 - 09:03 .

[DeinonSlayer]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

mtmercydave09 wrote...

I think it's more doom and gloom with regards to Thessia, because Shep and company were so close to getting the data.

That and it's the first time Shep is really "defeated", although he really wasn't since it took a gunship to do it.

You forgot Kai Leng's plot armor of invincibility.

Kai Leng spent the entire fight frozen in place, trying to recharge his shields faster than my Adas could strip them away. It was pathetic.

[mtmercydave09]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

mtmercydave09 wrote...

I think it's more doom and gloom with regards to Thessia, because Shep and company were so close to getting the data.

That and it's the first time Shep is really "defeated", although he really wasn't since it took a gunship to do it.

You forgot Kai Leng's plot armor of invincibility.

Kai Leng spent the entire fight frozen in place, trying to recharge his shields faster than my Adas could strip them away. It was pathetic.

Exactly, which is why I said KL didn't really defeat Shepard, the plot just made it seem that way.  It was pretty pathetic and not very believable.  

[Steelcan]

Yes yes, the Asari are pathetic and self serving. Hardly breaking news. I'm guessing the usual Asari waifs-worshippers will come out and try to justify the Asari and ill fight them tooth and nail.