222 réponses à ce sujet

[iOnlySignIn]

Blue space boobs are more important than anything else.

Because EAWare assumed their target audience to be 12-year-old boys who crave boobs but have no access to them otherwise. Hence, the great rush of sadness when their only source of boobs is cut off.

SinerAthin wrote...

I found that scene a bit lol.

In Mass Effect 2, Shepard even shot down multiple Gunships >WITH A PISTOL<

Kai Leng's gunship was untargetable because of powerful arc lamps mounted on it that blinded Shepard. It was designed by TIM to specifically counter Shepard, as he still knows the exact specifications of Shepard's eyes from Lazarus Project.

If you don't believe me just go and try to target that gunship yourself. 

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 07 avril 2013 - 09:11 .

[Bleachrude]

I would point out also that we are assuming that the reapers sent the same sized fleet towards each of the races...I don't think that's true.

I think the batarians got hit by the whole might of the reapers and that after which the fleets splut up.

Thessia might actually have faced the heaviest concentration of ground forces since wouldn't you send most of your infantry strength against the race with the highest infantry force multiplier thanks to biotics?

[Ledgend1221]

Bleachrude wrote...

I would point out also that we are assuming that the reapers sent the same sized fleet towards each of the races...I don't think that's true.

I think the batarians got hit by the whole might of the reapers and that after which the fleets splut up.

Thessia might actually have faced the heaviest concentration of ground forces since wouldn't you send most of your infantry strength against the race with the highest infantry force multiplier thanks to biotics?

Ah, no.
That sounds like terrible tactics.
I would just laugh and nuke them from orbit.

[dgcatanisiri]

This is a base breaker kind of situation - Player reaction pretty much depends on asking the question how connected are you to the asari? If, for example, Liara is your romance and you love the asari, then seeing their homeworld fall and burn is devastating. If, though, you're not that fond of Liara and think the asari are haughty and arrogant, then at best, it's a tragic event that's being repeated all over the galaxy, and at worst, it's karma at its finest, given the asari's refusal to come to the table until the Reapers are already on their doorstep. (Full disclosure, I do slant more towards the second interpretation than the first.)

However, the plot assumes the former situation to be more likely than the latter, ignoring the player's perspective. Shepard is broken, and, based on the dialogue, it's just as if not more about Thessia's fall than the loss of the data. (Shepard can say "Thessia's fallen and that's on me.") To some, Shepard hitting the breaking point doesn't feel earned based on the way that things play out - losing the data is demanded by the plot, and it's done in a way that feels cheap, when you can in gameplay have Kai Leng on the ropes, and then he just walks over Shepard when the cutscene kicks in. And again, the player connection comes into play - if I don't particularly care about Thessia and the asari, then seeing it burn really doesn't have the same effect as watching Earth burn, or watching the Normandy be destroyed. Part of the flaw in this sequence, I think, is that there's no opportunity for the player to forge a connection to Thessia - it's the first time we've been there, and the Reapers are already reaping, so we don't get the time to stop and understand why we should care about Thessia.

I get the intention - Tuchanka, the coup, then Rannoch, not to mention Sovereign and Saren and the Suicide Mission from the previous games, set Shepard up as a heroic figure who could always win against impossible odds, and then loses this round, but the way it's executed is... spotty at best. It's not a feeling of 'I lost the data' but 'the plot says that I lost the data.'

[David7204]

I'm not sure why people think Saren having ultra-strong shields is great, Vasir having ultra-strong shields is great, but Leng having ultra strong shields is "PLOT ARMOR BAD WRITING WHY DIDNT SHEPARD JUST SHOOT HIM@!!!!"

[Star fury]

David7204 wrote...

I'm not sure why people think Saren having ultra-strong shields is great, Vasir having ultra-strong shields is great, but Leng having ultra strong shields is "PLOT ARMOR BAD WRITING WHY DIDNT SHEPARD JUST SHOOT HIM@!!!!"

Don't lie. You fanboi defense makes the game look even worse than it is.

Saren's fight was handled much much better, his plot amour was well disguised. His character was good.

Then tell me, since when Saren and  Tela Vasir had a gunship supporting them? 

[David7204]

First of all, that's not plot armor.

Secondly, I would think that having a gunship to support him makes Leng MORE likely to defeat Shepard, not less.

[k.lalh]

The thing with Leng is that he was obviously written to be a hated character. Almost everyone in the game hated him, and almost everyone on BSN hates him.

He does his job in this regard: to be hated, and to some extent be a foil for Shepard.

Sure maybe he wasn't a good foil, but he wasn't the main villain you've been trying to defeat all game like Saren was.

They had to tie Miranda back into the main plot somehow you know...

Besides, that renegade interrupt was more than satisfying.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

David7204 wrote...

First of all, that's not plot armor.

Secondly, I would think that having a gunship to support him makes Leng MORE likely to defeat Shepard, not less.

That's plot armor because you can't kill him. If you could kill him it wouldn't be plot armor. If you killed him it would break the plot of the game. That is why it is called plot armor. I actually did enough damage one game to someone who had plot armor where I killed him and the game froze.

Right.... When I have Liara use maxed Warp on him. Javik hit him with Dark Channel. Liara using warp ammo, I'm using a level 5 Widow at that close range + maxed cloaking + extended barrel, hitting him every shot. I've dropped his armor to zero, had his health down to 25% and he's locked armor because he can't be killed yet. I've been at full health the entire time. Then I knock him down below 50% shield a second time and he bails. And that gunship? Who needs to aim? I can no scope it. I have an ASUS gaming monitor. lol. That has plot armor, too.

You are supposed to lose that battle. Battles like that might as well be cutscenes, and no, I didn't like Saren's plot armor at Virmire either.

[David7204]

And that's not plot armor. Not being able to kill a character because it would break the plot of a game is not plot armor.

What do you suggest? Have the game avoid any combat with human sized antagonists?

Modifié par David7204, 08 avril 2013 - 06:38 .

[MrFob]

Having everyone sad after Thessia is not the problem. After all, a very important planet just fell to the reapers, it's a personal tragedy for a friend (Liara is always a friend of Shepard's, no matter what you do) and Shepard just lost the most crucial piece of intel in the war. So that's fine. Also, it's not like people were particularly cheerful after Earth and Menae.

The thing I don't like about it is how Shep lost that battle against Kai Leng. A cutscene defeat is never fun. The way to go here would have been to give the player a really tough battle (a real gameplay one). It was one thing Arrival did rather well actually with Shepard fighting nect to object rho. Most of the time, I make a stupid mistake at some point and loose. Sometimes I make it to the end. Sure, I still loose but at least I feel like I put up a hell of a fight.
Thessia misses this mark and goes with an easy battle and a rather lame cutscene.
Here is how I'd have done it: Give me a really tough battle, say, Leng and 3 gunships + soldiers, etc. Have Leng snatch the VI during that cutscene. If I loose the battle (which is very likely) e get the same result as in the game and Traynor finds Leng later. If I win the battle, Shepard at least gets to put a tracker on Leng's ship (Obi Wan style if need be ) and at least we helped in tracking him. IMO, in a game you should never let the player win a battle just to beat him back down in the next cutscene. It works fine in movies, not in games.

Modifié par MrFob, 08 avril 2013 - 06:53 .

[David7204]

Leng is supposed to be on-par with Shepard. He's supposed to be dangerous. That's not going to come across very well if he needs three gunships and a battalion of soldiers to make it an even fight.

Modifié par David7204, 08 avril 2013 - 06:56 .

[MrFob]

David7204 wrote...

Leng is supposed to be on-par with Shepard. He's supposed to be dangerous. That's not going to come across very well if he needs three gunships and a battalion of soldiers to make it an even fight.

Alright well, then make him dangerous, make him double as hard to kill as Shepard's clone in Citadel and give him a crapload of powers. Just make the fight a real fighting experience for the player. I think a whole lot of people would respect the guy a lot more if he actually ever did put up a fight one way or the other.

EDIT: Oh, besides, the way things are in the game, he may not have three gunships but it still looks like the one he has does all the work for him.

Modifié par MrFob, 08 avril 2013 - 07:05 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

David7204 wrote...

And that's not plot armor. Not being able to kill a character because it would break the plot of a game is not plot armor.

What do you suggest? Have the game avoid any combat with human sized antagonists?

Then what do you call it if not plot armor? Did you know when you're coding a game the armor is tagged "plot"?

If there is zero chance of defeating them what is the point? I don't see one. Do you? If you have zero chance of survival while making an earnest effor to defeat them I especially don't see a point.

Perhaps have other mooks delay you while he gets away with the goods. It would make more sense. All he did was stay in "Armor Lock". It was pointless. My last play I just stayed in cover, had Liara keep him in stasis, and after a certain period of time he left. What was the point?

At least in this game you didn't have to use up all your medigel and then start the next mission with none like in ME2, because The Illusive Man was too cheap to make medigel available.

[David7204]

Story Driven Invulnerability is the correct term. Although looking at the page, it says it's a sub-trope of Plot Armor...someone needs to go in and write an article to correct that.

Look, plot armor is one of the crappiest tropes for video games. Half the entries on the damn page need to be cut. It's very poorly defined, has a misleading name, and is generally considered completely differently for video games than for other media, which it shouldn't be.

Modifié par David7204, 08 avril 2013 - 07:10 .

[InvincibleHero]

Asari are not used to war and are a soft people so to speak. They prefer diplomacy or stealth strikes. it seems like they had been through no major wars ever. They used proxies like Krogan (against rachni) to fight previous wars in all likelihood.

[Star fury]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Then what do you call it if not plot armor? Did you know when you're coding a game the armor is tagged "plot"?

If there is zero chance of defeating them what is the point? I don't see one. Do you? If you have zero chance of survival while making an earnest effor to defeat them I especially don't see a point.

Just ignore him, he's an obvious troll. 

[KennyAshes]

In all honesty, Earth devistated, Palaven burning, Tessia crushed, all the same doom and gloom to me.
The thing that bothered me most was that everything we done was not to save Palaven, not to save Tessia, its basically all to take back Earth. We are humans, and I do understand that Earth is more important to us than either of the other 2, but why does every race have to give up everything they have to retake Earth? To attack the bulk of the Reaper fleet? that is just stupid... to protect the Crucible? stooopppiiiddd It was build in what? weeks or months? Didn't seem to hard to find the resources... and the Reapers take hundreds of years to harvest a cycle.
I would have been more touched if we'd actually completely lost one of those 3 planets without hope of regaining it or the people on it while fighting for small victories while having to use guerilla tactics. Best example of that? gather the entire fleet in a far off solarsystem. Let the Normandy scan like a tart until 3 or 4 Reapers pop up and let the entire fleet loose on them, and repeat that... hit and run. Ok that would have made for an entire 4th part of the game, but I would have happily payed for that.

That basically is my 2cp about those 3 planets.

[Uncle Jo]

GeneralMoskvin_2.0 wrote...

Yestare7 wrote...

...aaaand, it makes Liara cry:(

And up comes godly Javik, putting on his deal with it face.

Javik didn't ask for anything, it was Liara who went to his room and started the fight.

[KiwiQuiche]

Uncle Jo wrote...

GeneralMoskvin_2.0 wrote...

Yestare7 wrote...

...aaaand, it makes Liara cry:(

And up comes godly Javik, putting on his deal with it face.

Javik didn't ask for anything, it was Liara who went to his room and started the fight.

That scene is even more fcuking retarded if you didn't bring Javik. Why the hell would she go b!tch to the one guy she knows full well won't give a sh!t when she has a whole freaking ship full of shoulders to lean on? Blargh, at least Javik doesn't take her crap and doles it right back out.

As for Thessia...frankly, my Renegade didn't care about the asari. She was just pissed that the morons couldn't even get her to a damn temple without screwing it up. She was also unimpressed with the fact the asari had prothean tech, but instead hoarded it away despite the fact it could have told them about the goddamn Reapers centuries ago but the asari just snuck it away and played the high and mighty card. No sympathy there, hence my irritation at the "OMFG I HATE EVERYTHING WAAH" attitude of Shep after Thessia. Blah.

Modifié par KiwiQuiche, 08 avril 2013 - 11:14 .

[Bleachrude]

Again...there's no indication that the asari had ANY idea of the reapers. The VI only awakens once you have Shepard and/or Javik there....

[KiwiQuiche]

Bleachrude wrote...

Again...there's no indication that the asari had ANY idea of the reapers. The VI only awakens once you have Shepard and/or Javik there....

Well, they certainly didn't try very hard in the few thousand years they had.

[Wulfram]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

Well, they certainly didn't try very hard in the few thousand years they had.

They just didn't have a prothean available, which was what was needed.

[SinerAthin]

GlassElephant wrote...

Those gunships didn't have a blinding light, though.

It doesn't really matter when it is hovering right outside the building

It's like hitting a barnside with a blindfold, not hard at all unless you're drunk.


But that's still not as funny as a pistol being capable of taking out a Gunship in the first place!

Although I suppose if Mass Effect 3 had been realistic, whatever gun the gunship was using could probably render 90% of the cover in the room useless.

Modifié par SinerAthin, 08 avril 2013 - 11:36 .

[in it for the lolz]

It could have been much worse...

...The blue xenos homeworld could have fallen to the Tyranids.

(The Tyranids make the Reapers look like stoned hippies when it comes to reaping lifeforms).