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[Display Name Owner]

As I interpreted it, it wasn't so much to do with Thessia's fall, which was already happening before you even got there, but more to do with having the final piece of the Crucible puzzle and the last hope against the Reapers slip through your fingers.

[David7204]

Astartes Marine wrote...

David7204 wrote...
Shepard is a flawless character.

You made me spit my drink out a little sir, I could not help but laugh at that idea.

Shepard is PLENTY flawed.

Is that right? Why don't you elaborate on that for me?

Modifié par David7204, 08 avril 2013 - 09:25 .

[Dusk Wolf]

David7204 wrote...

Astartes Marine wrote...

David7204 wrote...
Shepard is a flawless character.

You made me spit my drink out a little sir, I could not help but laugh at that idea.

Shepard is PLENTY flawed.

Is that right? Why don't you elaborate on that for me?

That statement tells me you may not have paid much attention but trusting derperus and TIM is one that I can think of right now.

[Red Panda]

The best part about Thessia was Kai Bang.

[Riot Inducer]

MrFob wrote...

Having everyone sad after Thessia is not the problem. After all, a very important planet just fell to the reapers, it's a personal tragedy for a friend (Liara is always a friend of Shepard's, no matter what you do) and Shepard just lost the most crucial piece of intel in the war. So that's fine. Also, it's not like people were particularly cheerful after Earth and Menae.

The thing I don't like about it is how Shep lost that battle against Kai Leng. A cutscene defeat is never fun. The way to go here would have been to give the player a really tough battle (a real gameplay one). It was one thing Arrival did rather well actually with Shepard fighting nect to object rho. Most of the time, I make a stupid mistake at some point and loose. Sometimes I make it to the end. Sure, I still loose but at least I feel like I put up a hell of a fight.
Thessia misses this mark and goes with an easy battle and a rather lame cutscene.
Here is how I'd have done it: Give me a really tough battle, say, Leng and 3 gunships + soldiers, etc. Have Leng snatch the VI during that cutscene. If I loose the battle (which is very likely) e get the same result as in the game and Traynor finds Leng later. If I win the battle, Shepard at least gets to put a tracker on Leng's ship (Obi Wan style if need be ) and at least we helped in tracking him. IMO, in a game you should never let the player win a battle just to beat him back down in the next cutscene. It works fine in movies, not in games.

That would have been much better. Making a battle you're supposed to lose actually difficult would remove so much of the cheapness. I never really thought about the fight at object Rho in Arrival but it was a really good way to do an unwinnable battle, either you are overwhelmed by the very difficult enemies or you survive the battle but lose the objective, it's much more believable and feels a lot less like you're cheated because of the plot.

Both fights with Kai Leng were incredibly disappointing, everything about him in the plot was making him out to be this very dangerous character but in reality he's just an ordinary phantom with extra hit points.

[Mangalores]

isnudo wrote...

As I interpreted it, it wasn't so much to do with Thessia's fall, which was already happening before you even got there, but more to do with having the final piece of the Crucible puzzle and the last hope against the Reapers slip through your fingers.

That might be bad pacing but I literally spent all the time before on side missions and you hear about the Catalyst maybe what? Two times? It's not like you are searching hard and this is the last lead. It's the first time you actually get off your lazy bum following a lead instead of scanning planets.


With Thessia it's simply: It's called "Fall of Thessia". That implies it's somehow worse than what happens elsewhere but you don't get the same for Earth or Palawan, not even with military wiped out and millions murdered.

It is precisely the same as on Earth, only with a population full of biotics against enemies a level 1 shockwave incapacitates and the most advanced navy with the second largest number of dreadnoughts (which if we go by the Destiny Ascension are far bigger than anyone else's) around. But somehow having the second largest navy of huge battleships makes you bad at conventional battle... err... okay, why do _you_ build battleships? Obviously the Asari are very much intent on being able to wage a conventional war.

At that stage none expects anyone to stop a Reaper invasion in a clean sweep so to me it was pretty obvious that the Reapers would land there and get entangled in the same kind of guerilla war, just with a military that's completely geared to fight that way and beat up Reaper forces.

Overall I have no clue what anyone expected. Why the Protheans were being dicks and hid half the plans for the Crucible somewhere else should have been a question for Javik.

[ComfortablyNumb]

cyrexwingblade wrote...

Thessia's aftermath is the biggest game-breaker for me, to be honest. I don't mind LIara... except for that piece of the trilogy. I would've been happy to offer condolences, but after the fourth screaming fit about the horrors of war AFTER we've watched Earth, Palavan, and numerous other planets/friends die to them is JUST aggravating. My Shep is a patient lady, and very symapthetic, but even she was starting to look at Liara funny for it.

Her comments during the Lesuss mission were similar. We've been mowing down husks for 3 games, but *Asari* husks make her freak out? I'd understand something like "I know we've been fighting husks for a while, Shepard, but seeing an Asari changed like that... I... I'm so sorry. I didn't understand before." THAT would make me sympathetic and actually maintain character stability.

As it is? She comes off as self-obsessed and aggravating. I still play Paragon when she's crying in her cabin, because she's taken the time to be alone, and is being hit emotionally by it. Everything else? My fuse burned real low.

And her comment how next time Alliance should give them air support? I just want to smack her. But since I can't, I just skip the "comfort poor Liara" stuff after the mission.

[kalasaurus]

mrufka_z wrote...

cyrexwingblade wrote...

Thessia's aftermath is the biggest game-breaker for me, to be honest. I don't mind LIara... except for that piece of the trilogy. I would've been happy to offer condolences, but after the fourth screaming fit about the horrors of war AFTER we've watched Earth, Palavan, and numerous other planets/friends die to them is JUST aggravating. My Shep is a patient lady, and very symapthetic, but even she was starting to look at Liara funny for it.

Her comments during the Lesuss mission were similar. We've been mowing down husks for 3 games, but *Asari* husks make her freak out? I'd understand something like "I know we've been fighting husks for a while, Shepard, but seeing an Asari changed like that... I... I'm so sorry. I didn't understand before." THAT would make me sympathetic and actually maintain character stability.

As it is? She comes off as self-obsessed and aggravating. I still play Paragon when she's crying in her cabin, because she's taken the time to be alone, and is being hit emotionally by it. Everything else? My fuse burned real low.

And her comment how next time Alliance should give them air support? I just want to smack her. But since I can't, I just skip the "comfort poor Liara" stuff after the mission.

I could understand Liara being upset, but her outburst at Javik (where she almost threatened to physically harm him) was too far.  She still does it if you don't bring him to Thessia.  Bah, that part bugged me.  He's not the friendliest guy but he was just minding his own business in his room.  Everyone else on the Normandy wanted to comfort her.

[Exile Isan]

mrufka_z wrote...
And her comment how next time Alliance should give them air support? I just want to smack her. But since I can't, I just skip the "comfort poor Liara" stuff after the mission.

That is the one comment that really got to me. I can understand her being upset about her homeworld, I totally get that, but that comment about the Alliance lending air support makes it sound like the Alliance isn't doing anything is this war, that they are just sitting on their hand and are not currently getting their asses handed to them on Earth, or I don't know, building the freaking Crucible. 

Her comments on Lessus bugged me as well.

And I think what bugged me the most was that it seems out of character for Liara.

Modifié par Exile Isan, 09 avril 2013 - 08:57 .

[kalasaurus]

No one gave a crap about Marauders, Cannibals or Brutes either.

[Spartas Husky]

MrFob wrote...


The thing I don't like about it is how Shep lost that battle against Kai Leng. A cutscene defeat is never fun. The way to go here would have been to give the player a really tough battle (a real gameplay one). It was one thing Arrival did rather well actually with Shepard fighting nect to object rho. Most of the time, I make a stupid mistake at some point and loose. Sometimes I make it to the end. Sure, I still loose but at least I feel like I put up a hell of a fight.

I love those fights in games. They are scripted, but until you do them you dont know. You sweat your fingers into oblivion only to loose. But god the feeling of accomplishment is there.

AGREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Exile Isan]

tickle267 wrote...
it bugs me that no-one gives a crap about human husks but the moment asari get huskified everyone gets all emotional.

Are you being serious? Because It does bug me that no one seems to not give a crap about husks, mauraders, that turians and krogans were fused together into brutes, that humans and batarians were fused together to create cannibals and that several humans were fused together to create scions and praetorians (and I think scions are the most horrific and revolting thing in the game). But that's not horrible, only asari being turned into banshee's is terrible. Who gives a crap about the other races right? Or that Shepard's had to gun down hundreds of her own people who have been "modified" by the Reapers?

I understand perfectly were Liara is coming from, it is terrible what is happening to the Asari, but she's not alone in that respect. Just about every other race in the galaxy has had to deal with this too. Maybe that's what bugged me about it? That I couldn't say, "Welcome to the club."?  

[Spartas Husky]

Hey hey.... from a weird point of view, Brutes are awesome. Funny too with their big ass bodies and tiny turian heads. I duno I feel like i want one for a pet.

[kalasaurus]

Spartas Husky wrote...

Hey hey.... from a weird point of view, Brutes are awesome. Funny too with their big ass bodies and tiny turian heads. I duno I feel like i want one for a pet.

I first read that as their "big ass booties" 

[Spartas Husky]

GlassElephant wrote...

Spartas Husky wrote...

Hey hey.... from a weird point of view, Brutes are awesome. Funny too with their big ass bodies and tiny turian heads. I duno I feel like i want one for a pet.

I first read that as their "big ass booties" 

LOL, dirty elephant.

[Xilizhra]

Exile Isan wrote...

tickle267 wrote...
it bugs me that no-one gives a crap about human husks but the moment asari get huskified everyone gets all emotional.

Are you being serious? Because It does bug me that no one seems to not give a crap about husks, mauraders, that turians and krogans were fused together into brutes, that humans and batarians were fused together to create cannibals and that several humans were fused together to create scions and praetorians (and I think scions are the most horrific and revolting thing in the game). But that's not horrible, only asari being turned into banshee's is terrible. Who gives a crap about the other races right? Or that Shepard's had to gun down hundreds of her own people who have been "modified" by the Reapers?

I understand perfectly were Liara is coming from, it is terrible what is happening to the Asari, but she's not alone in that respect. Just about every other race in the galaxy has had to deal with this too. Maybe that's what bugged me about it? That I couldn't say, "Welcome to the club."?  

Well, we've been killing husks for two games prior and are used to them by now. Turians and krogan are very culturally accustomed to war and would be somewhat less bothered by killing Reaperized versions of themselves. Batarians just aren't around on the squad to comment. Also, Liara's reaction has a lot more to do with her being a civilian and seeing the attack in action.

[iOnlySignIn]

Liara's hands and voice were steady when she took down her own mother.

It's just a symptom of Different-Writer-itis, nothing more. All female characters (such as FemShep, Ash, Liara) are made more feminine and vulnerable in ME3 to appeal to the main audience.

Drew Karpyshyn would never have Liara throwing a childish tantrum and babysitted by everyone in the crew after Thessia.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 09 avril 2013 - 09:51 .

[Xilizhra]

Liara's hands and voice were steady when she took down her own mother.

That was A. one person, and B. someone trying to kill her, Shepard, and the galaxy as a whole. Also, Femshep isn't made more vulnerable than Maleshep.

[Artifex_Imperius]

After Thessia I could understand Liara's Rage against Javik. Why did javik bother with the comments if he was of no help at all.
Liara must have thought about why bother picking up Javik he was of no use at all. fact you can finish the game without javik dlc.
Liara is sad knowing that the effort she gave in fighting the war no matter how great was in vain. from planet to planet and ruin to ruin. finding ways to defeat the reapers. she was never a soldier yet fighting longer and harder than anyone could.
And a fact in refusal ending liara still fought on with the beacons a true testament to her character.

And fact while everybody else was busy doing their own thing garrus,tali&wrex; liara had always been fighting and finding ways to defeat the reapers.

Modifié par Artifex_Imperius, 09 avril 2013 - 10:08 .

[ofarrell]

Because Asari are bad.

Also the Turian homeworld is called Palaven, unless you speak Latin or something.

[iOnlySignIn]

Xilizhra wrote...

That was A. one person, and B. someone trying to kill her, Shepard, and the galaxy as a whole.

I would give more fucks about personally murdering my own mother, than a particular planet being conquered in a galactic war, but that's just me.

Also, Femshep isn't made more vulnerable than Maleshep. 

How's that relevant? Maleshep doesn't even exist in your universe. 

All that matters is that FemShep is made far more vulnerable than she was in ME1 and ME2. And both Ashley and Liara suddenly becoming girly and sentimental. And that simple bit of throwaway piano music repeated ad nauseam. And VentBrat dying which you can never forget even in your dreams. It's all part of the same problem. 

Instead of legendary warrior/galactic superagent/Shadow Broker, Shepard/Liara are reduced to teenage emos by Walters & co.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 09 avril 2013 - 10:08 .

[David7204]

Lament for Thessia wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Astartes Marine wrote...

David7204 wrote...
Shepard is a flawless character.

You made me spit my drink out a little sir, I could not help but laugh at that idea.

Shepard is PLENTY flawed.

Is that right? Why don't you elaborate on that for me?

That statement tells me you may not have paid much attention but trusting derperus and TIM is one that I can think of right now.

This statement tells me you're a moron who can barely scrape up a single bit of reasoning for an argument you evidently think is obvious. Did you miss the parts in ME 2 where Shepard can say s/he doesn't trust Cerberus...I dunno how many times? A lot.

[BronzTrooper]

Turians had a better chance of holding off the Reapers because they are more militaristic. Plus, the Asari had WAAAAYYYYY more warning than the Alliance, the Turians, and the Batarians (they had almost no warning) and they were still overwhelmed by the Reapers.