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[Han Shot First]

To the people who think Liara overreacted, and that hardened combat veterans don't or shouldn't express grief....














Cup of Joe - Colorized photo of crying German soldier

[ComfortablyNumb]

Xilizhra wrote...

The viciousness and incorrectness of people here regarding the asari and Liara saddens me, but I'm heartened to know that no matter how you rant, your Shepards will never feel the same way.

Pray tell - how can you know what my Shepards feel?...

[Barquiel]

Han Shot First wrote...

To the people who think Liara overreacted, and that hardened combat veterans don't or shouldn't express grief....

Indeed, it always baffles me when some people here think all combat veterans (independent of the question whether Liara is a civilian or not) are emotionless automatons. And we're talking about the reaper war here, which claimed billions of lives...there is nothing comparable. Liara did her job on Thessia, and she's ready to go on the very next mission. Her reaction immediately after Thessia is certainly much more believable than the wooden response of some other characters.

Modifié par Barquiel, 10 avril 2013 - 05:28 .

[ComfortablyNumb]

Han Shot First wrote...

To the people who think Liara overreacted, and that hardened combat veterans don't or shouldn't express grief....

I don't have a problem with her "overreacting". I have a problem with making it look like she's in a worse situation that everybody else on Normandy (and thus deserving special treatment).

Modifié par mrufka_z, 10 avril 2013 - 05:29 .

[Steelcan]

mrufka_z wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

To the people who think Liara overreacted, and that hardened combat veterans don't or shouldn't express grief....

I don't have a problem with her "overreacting". I have a problem with making it look like she's in a worse situation that everybody else on Normandy (and thus deserving special treatment).

. This.  Also, if she can't handle the horros of this war, unlike any other squadmate, she shouldn't be on the Normandy.

[Tibbur]

Steelcan wrote...

mrufka_z wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

To the people who think Liara overreacted, and that hardened combat veterans don't or shouldn't express grief....

I don't have a problem with her "overreacting". I have a problem with making it look like she's in a worse situation that everybody else on Normandy (and thus deserving special treatment).

. This.  Also, if she can't handle the horros of this war, unlike any other squadmate, she shouldn't be on the Normandy.

unlike shepard who had a breakdown after seeing one kid killed

[Tibbur]

Multi post sorry

Modifié par Tibbur, 10 avril 2013 - 09:31 .

[Tibbur]

Multi post sorry

Modifié par Tibbur, 10 avril 2013 - 09:30 .

[Xilizhra]

mrufka_z wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

To the people who think Liara overreacted, and that hardened combat veterans don't or shouldn't express grief....

I don't have a problem with her "overreacting". I have a problem with making it look like she's in a worse situation that everybody else on Normandy (and thus deserving special treatment).

Um, that's not her intention.

Also, it really doesn't matter if she breaks down when she's safe; all that matters is if she can keep it together in the field, which she can and does.

[Astartes Marine]

mrufka_z wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...
To the people who think Liara overreacted, and that hardened combat veterans don't or shouldn't express grief....

I don't have a problem with her "overreacting". I have a problem with making it look like she's in a worse situation that everybody else on Normandy (and thus deserving special treatment).

Agreed, she's kept her composure right up until the Thessia/Lessus missions.  She's fine fighting husks until they're Asari husks, then she cracks.  Get a grip lady, we're all experiencing our worlds burning.  Earth's in flames, Palaven's in flames but do you see me or Garrus crying about it?  Hell no.  Crying about it won't fix anything, killing every one of these abominations will, and if you're not going to do it then stay the hell out of the way.

Were it not for her knowledge of the Protheans and her position as the Shadow Broker, I would not have taken her aboard the Normandy in Mass Effect 3.  I would have much preferred Mordin's presence on the Normandy to her. 

Is that an unsympathetic stance?  Damn right it is, but it's a war.  Blood will be spilled, lives will be lost, but you can't ever stop until either you or the enemy is dead.

[David7204]

It would be much easier to take these comments proclaiming 'toughness' seriously if they weren't made by people who would probably ****** themselves if they were threatened with so much as a fistfight.

Modifié par David7204, 10 avril 2013 - 07:39 .

[Ultrabobo]

The problem with Liara is undertanding who you're talking with. I mean, there's cutey innocent researcher Liara, then there's i will flay you with my mind Liara, then there's no, i wasn't really going to flay you with my mind Liara, then there's i will shoot you while you're helpless inside a singularity Liara.

I just never know what's going to happen, it's like talking with Jamie Braddock.... without the power over reality part.

Modifié par Ultrabobo, 10 avril 2013 - 07:41 .

[robertthebard]

Astartes Marine wrote...

mrufka_z wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...
To the people who think Liara overreacted, and that hardened combat veterans don't or shouldn't express grief....

I don't have a problem with her "overreacting". I have a problem with making it look like she's in a worse situation that everybody else on Normandy (and thus deserving special treatment).

Agreed, she's kept her composure right up until the Thessia/Lessus missions.  She's fine fighting husks until they're Asari husks, then she cracks.  Get a grip lady, we're all experiencing our worlds burning.  Earth's in flames, Palaven's in flames but do you see me or Garrus crying about it?  Hell no.  Crying about it won't fix anything, killing every one of these abominations will, and if you're not going to do it then stay the hell out of the way.

Were it not for her knowledge of the Protheans and her position as the Shadow Broker, I would not have taken her aboard the Normandy in Mass Effect 3.  I would have much preferred Mordin's presence on the Normandy to her. 

Is that an unsympathetic stance?  Damn right it is, but it's a war.  Blood will be spilled, lives will be lost, but you can't ever stop until either you or the enemy is dead.

You know, I'd buy into this, if it weren't for all the Ash sympathy being thrown around.  What was Ashley's first impression of a husk?  Horror at learning that they used to be human?  Did you play ME 1?  Replay the first mission, and see how much I have to make up.  I read through these responses, saying that Liara demanded special attention, and I have to laugh.  Really, I do.  The only reason one feels that she's demanding special attention is that one is catering to her.  My last RenShep didn't even go to her quarters after Thessia, so if I base my reactions on this one playthrough, all I can say is "What are you talking about?  That never happened in my game." and I'd be right.  So you play nursemaid to her, and then act like the game forced you to do it?  It doesn't.  If you simply don't go to her quarters after Thessia, and frankly, there was no metagaming what would happen, I simply forgot to do it, then the majority of the events that are being cried over here never happen.

So you feel bad for her, go to talk to her, and then complain because she was feeling bad?  Epic Facepalm.  The writers added the scene, but you chose to play it.  Nothing about it breaks the plot if you don't do it, it is not required, but you did it anyway, and then use it as a basis to complain.  No sympathy from me, your wounds are self inflicted.  I know, I really do:  But Rob, if I do what you suggest, I won't have something new and exciting to bash BioWare about.  Allow me to say this:  Is that an unsympathetic stance?  Damn right it is.  Sound familiar?

[Astartes Marine]

robertthebard wrote...
You know, I'd buy into this, if it weren't for all the Ash sympathy being thrown around.  What was Ashley's first impression of a husk?  Horror at learning that they used to be human?  Did you play ME 1?  Replay the first mission, and see how much I have to make up. 

No need to remind me, Ash lost her whole squad in the first contact with the Geth on Eden Prime, then we see the Husks.  And for a first contact, it's understandable to be unnerved, after all you've never seen anything like them.  During the events of ME3 Liara HAS seen husks before, depending on how often you take her on missions in ME1 she may have racked up quite the bodycount, and all the stuff she went through between 1 and 2 and then 2 and 3 and only upon seeing an Asari turned into a husk or Thessia under fire do the waterworks start. 

robertthebard wrote...
So you play nursemaid to her, and then act
like the game forced you to do it?  It doesn't.  If you simply don't go
to her quarters after Thessia, and frankly, there was no metagaming what
would happen, I simply forgot to do it, then the majority of the events
that are being cried over here never happen.

She starts the whining during the Thessia/Lessus missions.  She is a forced squadmate on Thessia and thus the whining is unavoidable.  I made the mistake of taking her to Lessus however only once because I thought bringing an Asari along to an Asari outpost might help in some way...never again. 

And I visit teammates after each mission, I don't think I've yet discovered all the unique dialogue.  Course next time I might just get fed up and tell her to get over it.  <_<

Modifié par Astartes Marine, 10 avril 2013 - 08:02 .

[Wulfram]

I think people should probably freak out about the husks and marauders more.

Definitely not keep a husk head as a trophy.

[robertthebard]

Astartes Marine wrote...

robertthebard wrote...
You know, I'd buy into this, if it weren't for all the Ash sympathy being thrown around.  What was Ashley's first impression of a husk?  Horror at learning that they used to be human?  Did you play ME 1?  Replay the first mission, and see how much I have to make up. 

No need to remind me, Ash lost her whole squad in the first contact with the Geth on Eden Prime, then we see the Husks.  And for a first contact, it's understandable to be unnerved, after all you've never seen anything like them.  During the events of ME3 Liara HAS seen husks before, depending on how often you take her on missions in ME1 she may have racked up quite the bodycount, and all the stuff she went through between 1 and 2 and then 2 and 3 and only upon seeing an Asari turned into a husk or Thessia under fire do the waterworks start. 

robertthebard wrote...
So you play nursemaid to her, and then act
like the game forced you to do it?  It doesn't.  If you simply don't go
to her quarters after Thessia, and frankly, there was no metagaming what
would happen, I simply forgot to do it, then the majority of the events
that are being cried over here never happen.

She starts the whining during the Thessia/Lessus missions.  She is a forced squadmate on Thessia and thus the whining is unavoidable.  I made the mistake of taking her to Lessus however only once because I thought bringing an Asari along to an Asari outpost might help in some way...never again. 

And I visit teammates after each mission, I don't think I've yet discovered all the unique dialogue.  Course next time I might just get fed up and tell her to get over it.  <_<

Obviously, I'm not over sympathetic to Liara's cause.  I can, however, understand how she might come off the way she does.  It's one thing to see the destruction from space/hear about it from somebody else.  It's another to witness it on your homeworld.  The monastery is no different than Ash, and quite frankly my initial reaction to husks, especially if you do it before Thessia.  I almost never take her anywhere anyway, so it's possible that I'd never taken her there.  Garrus and Tali are my squad, and have been since ME 1.  I don't feel like I've missed out on any relevant content by not taking her anywhere she's not required, and some of what I do get from taking her is already known, or guessable, by Shepard, anyway.  People choose to take her, and then choose to complain about her.  I choose to not take her, and pretty much treat her like everyone else in the crew.  After Thessia, I don't go gossiping with crewmates, even though I should, I go to Sanctuary, looking for payback.

[Astartes Marine]

Wulfram wrote...
I think people should probably freak out about the husks and marauders more.
Definitely not keep a husk head as a trophy.

Heh, the Husk head was a strange one I'll give you that.  Reminded me of that crazy scene from Prometheus with the way the head was still sort of alive...

Seeing as it's the first encounter with husks for the majority of the galaxy...yes I'd agree.  The Asari from the Huerta Memorial Hospital, I think most will know which I'm talking about, seemed to me more like a believable reaction than Liara's sudden outbursts.

[Xilizhra]

Is that an unsympathetic stance? Damn right it is, but it's a war. Blood will be spilled, lives will be lost, but you can't ever stop until either you or the enemy is dead.

Well, them joining the Greater Good works too.

[themikefest]

David7204 wrote...

It would be much easier to take these comments proclaiming 'toughness' seriously if they weren't made by people who would probably ****** themselves if they were threatened with so much as a fistfight.

For me I would've rather faced a fistfight then fighting in combat. In combat it's not necessarily toughness(though its good to have) but the your state of mind  If you let grief overcome you during a firefight you become a liability which may put you and others in harm's way. 

Seeing your fellow soldiers dead or dieing is not something you forget.

When you go into combat there is always a chance someone will be killed or injured. If that were to happen, you have to overcome the grief and keep fighting until the area is free of the enemy and is secured. Once that is done tend to wounded and let the grieving process begin.

[David7204]

And Liara does exactly that.

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...


Also, it really doesn't matter if she breaks down when she's safe; all that matters is if she can keep it together in the field, which she can and does.

. "I still can't face those things"

Cowardice in the face of the enemy..........

[Astartes Marine]

Xilizhra wrote...

Is that an unsympathetic stance? Damn right it is, but it's a war. Blood will be spilled, lives will be lost, but you can't ever stop until either you or the enemy is dead.

Well, them joining the Greater Good works too.

And then you get neutered and put into a camp.  What they don't tell you is it's the "greater good"...for the Tau and only the Tau.  The rest are just convenient support and cheap labor.  The days of the Tau being idealistic "good guys" in Warhammer is long past with newer codexes and background fluff making them just as morally and ethically questionable/bankrupt as everyone else.

[robertthebard]

Steelcan wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...


Also, it really doesn't matter if she breaks down when she's safe; all that matters is if she can keep it together in the field, which she can and does.

. "I still can't face those things"

Cowardice in the face of the enemy..........

Except we never actually see her exhibit cowardice in the face of the enemy.  She, like any other squad mate, will fight what you tell her to fight, when you tell her to fight it.  Mostly, squad AI not withstanding.  If showing revulsion at the sight of a husk is bad, then Ash/Kaidan fail out of the gate in ME 3.  They don't even get off Mars before failing.  Now, if she broke down completely, on the battlefield, then you may have a point.  But since she doesn't, headcanon of how she's going to act, or of her or any squad mate exhibiting cowardice is just that, headcanon, and really has no place in a discussion of actual events in game.

[Steelcan]

robertthebard wrote...

Except we never actually see her exhibit cowardice in the face of the enemy.  She, like any other squad mate, will fight what you tell her to fight, when you tell her to fight it.  Mostly, squad AI not withstanding.  If showing revulsion at the sight of a husk is bad, then Ash/Kaidan fail out of the gate in ME 3.  They don't even get off Mars before failing.  Now, if she broke down completely, on the battlefield, then you may have a point.  But since she doesn't, headcanon of how she's going to act, or of her or any squad mate exhibiting cowardice is just that, headcanon, and really has no place in a discussion of actual events in game.

. That's not head canon though.  That's Liara's own admission of cowardice on the battlefield.

[robertthebard]

Steelcan wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Except we never actually see her exhibit cowardice in the face of the enemy.  She, like any other squad mate, will fight what you tell her to fight, when you tell her to fight it.  Mostly, squad AI not withstanding.  If showing revulsion at the sight of a husk is bad, then Ash/Kaidan fail out of the gate in ME 3.  They don't even get off Mars before failing.  Now, if she broke down completely, on the battlefield, then you may have a point.  But since she doesn't, headcanon of how she's going to act, or of her or any squad mate exhibiting cowardice is just that, headcanon, and really has no place in a discussion of actual events in game.

. That's not head canon though.  That's Liara's own admission of cowardice on the battlefield.

Can you link me a cutscene where she refuses to fight them, curls up in a ball and cries?  No?  Then it's headcanon.