222 réponses à ce sujet

[Exile Isan]

robertthebard wrote...
I actually laugh every time I hear that.  Which I believe was the intended response.  All things considered, they could have really used some, but since the Alliance is too far away for that, and she knows it, I think she's trying to make light of a bad situation.

If that was the intention then Ali Hillis needs to work on her delivery. As that's not the way that line came off to me, or a lot of people for that matter.

[EnvyTB075]

David7204 wrote...

Story Driven Invulnerability

....thats plot armour you twerp

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

EnvyTB075 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

Story Driven Invulnerability

....thats plot armour you twerp

Don't stoop to his level.

That's my job.

[EnvyTB075]

Han Shot First wrote...

To the people who think Liara overreacted, and that hardened combat veterans don't or shouldn't express grief....

Cup of Joe - Colorized photo of crying German soldier

This week in New York's Bestsellers;

A Case study in "Missing the point entirely", by Han Shot First.

Modifié par EnvyTB075, 11 avril 2013 - 02:52 .

[David7204]

It's not plot armor.

I'm going to guess that sooner or later, plot armor is going to be re-named. It's really just a completely awful name. Misleading. Particularly for video games.

Modifié par David7204, 11 avril 2013 - 02:53 .

[EnvyTB075]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Don't stoop to his level.

That's my job.

Then please do so, i don't think i can take much more stupidity.

[Artifex_Imperius]

EnvyTB075 wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

To the people who think Liara overreacted, and that hardened combat veterans don't or shouldn't express grief....

Cup of Joe - Colorized photo of crying German soldier

This week in New York's Bestsellers;

A Case study in "Missing the point entirely", by Han Shot First.

This!

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

David7204 wrote...

You're overly aggressive, you seem to think that everyone who has a different opinion is a fool, you resort to childish taunts with distressing frequency, and worst of all you don't even have an amusing quirk or style to make it tolerable.

In short you sir are a cad.

[David7204]

I'm interested why you decided to say that when after several pages, my only post is that Story Driven Invulnerability is not plot armor and that the name is bad. Both of those points are perfectly true. And that post was neither aggressive nor taunting. I also notice that I've been called a 'cad' and a 'twerp' for clarifying some simple narrative diction, and you've suggested people not 'stoop to my level.' So apparently you have some issue with that. Also, I notice you didn't actually say I was wrong, did you? 

Modifié par David7204, 11 avril 2013 - 03:12 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

I've seen the rest of your work David.

I could pull up specific quotes if you like.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

David7204 wrote...
 I notice you didn't actually say I was wrong, did you? 

Oh no you are technically correct.

It's the utterly unpleasant manner in which you present things that turns people against you.

[robertthebard]

Exile Isan wrote...

robertthebard wrote...
I actually laugh every time I hear that.  Which I believe was the intended response.  All things considered, they could have really used some, but since the Alliance is too far away for that, and she knows it, I think she's trying to make light of a bad situation.

If that was the intention then Ali Hillis needs to work on her delivery. As that's not the way that line came off to me, or a lot of people for that matter.

Not everybody is good at one liners.  I don't know for certain that that was the intent, but that's the way it comes off to me, all things considered.  To clarify:  In all the missions I have run since ME 1, I have never had full air support, except for the mission on Thessia, and on Tuchanka.  Considering that it's a luxury, instead of SOP, and she's been around for a lot of it, so she knows it's not SOP, I take it as an attempt at a joke.  The other point to consider is that, barring her decent one liner in LotSB, she's not very good at jokes, and whoever you bring with you to get Javik takes full advantage with the dinosaur question.

[Han Shot First]

Steelcan wrote...


Coward =\\= running away. She can still be a coward by refusing to fight the enemy, which is exactly what she admits to.

You are making the mistake of assuming that courage is a lack of fear. It isn't. The difference between a coward and a brave man in combat is that the coward is conquered by his fear while the brave man does his duty despite it.


"Bravery is the capacity to perform properly even when scared half to death."

---Omar Bradley


"All men are frightened. The more intelligent they are, the more they are frightened. The courageous man is the man who forces himself, in spite of his fear, to carry on."

--George S. Patton


"Courage is doing what you're afraid to do. There can be no courage unless your scared."

---Eddie Rickenbacker


Liara admitting to being disturbed by seeing Reaper creatures is no example of cowardice. At no point does she ever refuse to go into battle or to face Reaper abominations. The fact that she does do her duty, despite being disturbed or afraid, is pretty much the textbook definition of battlefield courage.

[Mangalores]

Astartes Marine wrote...
...

Again, Kurin is closer to the cowardice accusation as she willingly admits planning to abandon her asigned post and defy orders.

Well, you see barely any Asari of her unit still standing. You see a lot of body bags instead. She fears of getting isolated and her unit annihilated. Just consider that historically and in our military standards a unit that lost 50% in men (dead and wounded) is considered destroyed and combat ineffective. You see maybe ~5-8 soldiers and a lot of body bags. Her unit is effectively destroyed and she wants to evacuate the survivors.

I don't see real cowardice in wanting to withdraw when it is clear you cannot hold out any longer. Shepard just tells her it's important and she grudgingly complies knowingly signing her death sentence.

The air support is similar. The Asari didn't want to call air support because it would be destroyed. Well, it got destroyed. So you simply see troops acting based on their knowledge but pretty bravely ignoring what would be best for them just on the word by a human that it is indeed important.

[knightnblu]

You are ignoring the Asari psychology. For a very long time they have been top dog in the galaxy. They all have biotics and they all have the potential to live for 1,000 years. They are the most technologically advanced race in the galaxy. Now, all of a sudden they are faced with a military challenge that they cannot cope with.

Their people are dying by the millions every day, structures that have survived for thousands of years are being cast down, the Asari Matriarchs, the height of Asari intellect, are at a loss to stop it and they know that there is nobody that they can call on to save them from their fate.

If that doesn't knock the stuffing out of you, then I don't know what will. It is why Tavos shares the secret with Shepard as that is their last hope for salvation. Anything else is just holding off the inevitable. In fact, Tavos essentially says this herself, "you have become the sole ray of light in a very dark night." (not an exact quote)

Lastly, do the Asari seem like a people who can shrug off the extinction of their own race and get down in the mud with the grunts to you? Contrast that with humanity. We have faced genocide and mass slaughter many times and it was done by our own hands. In that respect, we have a lot in common with the Krogan than we do with the Asari despite our common looks.

[Barquiel]

Exile Isan wrote...

I can forgive all the other comments she makes (for the most part) it is her home and her people that are getting slaughtered after all, but I cannot forgive the Alliance should spring for air support comment. It was uncalled for and unfair.

Well, she's learned from the best

Shepard: "I need the turian fleet."



Seriously though, sending reinforcements to Thessia wouldn't have been the worst idea (it was even an option in the leaked script, but they have cut the whole thing for some reason). I mean, what exactly is the Alliance doing during the war? They're giving up Earth and the major colonies, they don't help the other races and they don't guard the crucible (according to the codex, the turian seventh fleet is the main defence force).

Modifié par Barquiel, 11 avril 2013 - 01:34 .

[JackofStaves]

Mangalores wrote...

Astartes Marine wrote...
...

Again, Kurin is closer to the cowardice accusation as she willingly admits planning to abandon her asigned post and defy orders.

Well, you see barely any Asari of her unit still standing. You see a lot of body bags instead. She fears of getting isolated and her unit annihilated. Just consider that historically and in our military standards a unit that lost 50% in men (dead and wounded) is considered destroyed and combat ineffective. You see maybe ~5-8 soldiers and a lot of body bags. Her unit is effectively destroyed and she wants to evacuate the survivors.

I don't see real cowardice in wanting to withdraw when it is clear you cannot hold out any longer. Shepard just tells her it's important and she grudgingly complies knowingly signing her death sentence.

The air support is similar. The Asari didn't want to call air support because it would be destroyed. Well, it got destroyed. So you simply see troops acting based on their knowledge but pretty bravely ignoring what would be best for them just on the word by a human that it is indeed important.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but at least in Western armed forces the SOP is 1/3 casualties render a unit combat ineffective for offensive operations.  Defense is a different story, as it's traditionally easier to defend a position than attack, particularly if you don't have the advantage of numbers.  No one likes to think about it, since last stands are not something anyone thinks about in "modern" warfare, but given the Reapers' overwhelming numerical and qualitiative superiority, it would have to come into play.  The lieutenant would never have been able to evac her troops via gunship transport anyway, so it comes down to the very simple, yet hard moment that any soldier faces on the field of battle.

[Mangalores]

knightnblu wrote...

Lastly, do the Asari seem like a people who can shrug off the extinction of their own race and get down in the mud with the grunts to you? Contrast that with humanity. We have faced genocide and mass slaughter many times and it was done by our own hands. In that respect, we have a lot in common with the Krogan than we do with the Asari despite our common looks.

If you consider their longevity the fact is that a lot of their middle aged and elderly would actually still have first hand experience about galactic war and mass slaughter. In contrast in humans such memories and experiences are forgotten within 50-60 years.

So I do not really see a difference in psychology here that would give mankind a definitive edge. Humans are not really very good at coping with this kind of violence either.

  The lieutenant would never have been able to evac her troops via
gunship transport anyway, so it comes down to the very simple, yet hard
moment that any soldier faces on the field of battle.

How do you know?

[Artifex_Imperius]

Barquiel wrote...

Exile Isan wrote...

I can forgive all the other comments she makes (for the most part) it is her home and her people that are getting slaughtered after all, but I cannot forgive the Alliance should spring for air support comment. It was uncalled for and unfair.

Well, she's learned from the best

Shepard: "I need the turian fleet."



Seriously though, sending reinforcements to Thessia wouldn't have been the worst idea (it was even an option in the leaked script, but they have cut the whole thing for some reason). I mean, what exactly is the Alliance doing during the war? They're giving up Earth and the major colonies, they don't help the other races and they don't guard the crucible (according to the codex, the turian seventh fleet is the main defence force).

This!

[MysticSpace]

mrufka_z wrote...

cyrexwingblade wrote...

Thessia's aftermath is the biggest game-breaker for me, to be honest. I don't mind LIara... except for that piece of the trilogy. I would've been happy to offer condolences, but after the fourth screaming fit about the horrors of war AFTER we've watched Earth, Palavan, and numerous other planets/friends die to them is JUST aggravating. My Shep is a patient lady, and very symapthetic, but even she was starting to look at Liara funny for it.

Her comments during the Lesuss mission were similar. We've been mowing down husks for 3 games, but *Asari* husks make her freak out? I'd understand something like "I know we've been fighting husks for a while, Shepard, but seeing an Asari changed like that... I... I'm so sorry. I didn't understand before." THAT would make me sympathetic and actually maintain character stability.

As it is? She comes off as self-obsessed and aggravating. I still play Paragon when she's crying in her cabin, because she's taken the time to be alone, and is being hit emotionally by it. Everything else? My fuse burned real low.

And her comment how next time Alliance should give them air support? I just want to smack her. But since I can't, I just skip the "comfort poor Liara" stuff after the mission.

Actually I would have loved to so see the look on KL's face if Steve had shot that gunship out  of the air but the writers wanted us to feel sorry for Liara.

[JackofStaves]

Mangalores wrote...

  The lieutenant would never have been able to evac her troops via
gunship transport anyway, so it comes down to the very simple, yet hard
moment that any soldier faces on the field of battle.

How do you know?

I remember seeing the Harvesters dropping gunships in the background, and of course, there's the Talon-Five gunship on the platform that gets blown out of the sky in very short order as Shepard moves towards the temple.  Without enough firepower to suppress the Reapers long enough to get a gunship into an LZ and extract the team, well...even the craziest pilot would think twice.  And you'd need a couple of them to get the job done....

[Mangalores]

JackofStaves wrote...

I remember seeing the Harvesters dropping gunships in the background, and of course, there's the Talon-Five gunship on the platform that gets blown out of the sky in very short order as Shepard moves towards the temple.  Without enough firepower to suppress the Reapers long enough to get a gunship into an LZ and extract the team, well...even the craziest pilot would think twice.  And you'd need a couple of them to get the job done....

Running on foot is also an option, like a certain commander does in the prologue.  Anderson also somehow managed to wiggle his way out of a tight spot where Alliance shuttles got blown out of the sky left and right. Maybe they had no chance, maybe they did. My point is: We can't really know that.