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[Coldcall01]

Okay just finnished my first playthrough, and since being a saintly warrior i sacrificed myself at the end. That's when i remember the whacky idea about making Logain (who i killed at Lansmeet) a grey warden instead of killing him, and i wondered whether apart from Morrigan's rather bizarre offer, Logain, if made grey warden is forced to die in your place at the end once the archdemon is defeated.

Is that correct? Honestly i dont mind the spoiler i just wanted to know for the sake of which route to take on my next playthrough.

[Erakleitos]

He's not forced to die but you can politely invite him to do so ;p

[SusanStoHelit]

Or if you want, you can have HIM do the ritual with Morrigan. Of course, he then lives, but c'est la vie.

[Wuxia]

Erakleitos wrote...

He's not forced to die but you can politely invite him to do so ;p

 Actually he volunteers and if you want him to survive you have to persuade him to let you kill yourself. Crazy guy. At least that's what happened for me.

[Coldcall01]

SusanStoHelit wrote...

Or if you want, you can have HIM do the ritual with Morrigan. Of course, he then lives, but c'est la vie.

Really? That's a shocker. But great because i did not know there were that many endings.

[Coldcall01]

Banon Loire wrote...

Erakleitos wrote...

He's not forced to die but you can politely invite him to do so ;p

 Actually he volunteers and if you want him to survive you have to persuade him to let you kill yourself. Crazy guy. At least that's what happened for me.

Ya i guess at the end he wants to sort of give back, after being such a bastard for the whole game.

[Tor_pedo]

Loghain iz hawt! dun let hiem die!

[SusanStoHelit]

Coldcall01 wrote...

Really? That's a shocker. But great because i did not know there were that many endings.

You need good persuade for this, I think - but I don't know how high because I've not chosen this option myself yet, and probably never will. But there are a lot of variations in the ending.

Alistair, Loghain, and male pcs can sleep with Morrigan if the pact is accepted. But you have to get Alistair and Loghain to agree to it first. If you're a female, you can choose to not even tell them and refuse - or persuade them - because you obviously cannot 'do it' yourself. If you're in a romance with Alistair, well, that can complicate things.

And then there's who takes the final blow if you don't do the pact. If you're a female pc and he's in love with you, Alistair will do it regardless and cannot be talked out of it. If you wish to sacrifice, you must leave him at the Gate. Less complications for male pcs, I think. Then you can persuade Loghain or Alistair. Or not.

[Ilvra]

SusanStoHelit wrote...

Coldcall01 wrote...

Really? That's a shocker. But great because i did not know there were that many endings.

You need good persuade for this, I think - but I don't know how high because I've not chosen this option myself yet, and probably never will. But there are a lot of variations in the ending.

Alistair, Loghain, and male pcs can sleep with Morrigan if the pact is accepted. But you have to get Alistair and Loghain to agree to it first. If you're a female, you can choose to not even tell them and refuse - or persuade them - because you obviously cannot 'do it' yourself. If you're in a romance with Alistair, well, that can complicate things.

And then there's who takes the final blow if you don't do the pact. If you're a female pc and he's in love with you, Alistair will do it regardless and cannot be talked out of it. If you wish to sacrifice, you must leave him at the Gate. Less complications for male pcs, I think. Then you can persuade Loghain or Alistair. Or not.

I've done it once, but stopped that playthrough before going onto the roof at Fort Drakon. I just couldn't let him live. I didn't realize you needed high persuade, but the character did have it.

It was actually sort of enjoyable talking him into it, in a vengeful sort of way. I didn't feel nearly as slimy as I did talking Alistair into it, since I pretty much thought it paled in comparison to some of the things Loghain had done willingly. And, to ice the cake, he has a snarky thing or two to say to Morrigan. 

[CptPatch]

You actually have to have at least one run-through where you add Loghain to your party in order to get the Recruiter Achievement (recruit all possible comnpanions across multiple playthroughs).

[Coldcall01]

SusanStoHelit wrote...

Coldcall01 wrote...

Really? That's a shocker. But great because i did not know there were that many endings.

You need good persuade for this, I think - but I don't know how high because I've not chosen this option myself yet, and probably never will. But there are a lot of variations in the ending.

Alistair, Loghain, and male pcs can sleep with Morrigan if the pact is accepted. But you have to get Alistair and Loghain to agree to it first. If you're a female, you can choose to not even tell them and refuse - or persuade them - because you obviously cannot 'do it' yourself. If you're in a romance with Alistair, well, that can complicate things.

And then there's who takes the final blow if you don't do the pact. If you're a female pc and he's in love with you, Alistair will do it regardless and cannot be talked out of it. If you wish to sacrifice, you must leave him at the Gate. Less complications for male pcs, I think. Then you can persuade Loghain or Alistair. Or not.

Well I never did the pact with Morrigan as it would have been out of character for my holier than thou noble warrior. Also did not bother informing Alistair of Morrigan's offer (after my refusal) and she walked out, which was kind of sad.

And why would Alistair do it anyway? I would have thought it would be more in his character to rather sacrifice himself than create what is a demon child. This would be more taboo than even blood magic.

Can one let Logain live, and agree to the pact with Morrigan, and then make a final decision after the final battle?

[Yard Waste]

My main PC did the ritual and all was fine. I had arranged for Alistair to marry Anora. I let Logain live and Alistair says WTF and leaves. Reload and Kill Logain instead---Anora is pissed and refuses to marry Alistair.

[Saryala]

Coldcall01 wrote...

Can one let Logain live, and agree to the pact with Morrigan, and then make a final decision after the final battle?

I think you need to decide before the final battle. The only thing you can decide *during* the battle is who takes the final blow, if you didn't agree to the ritual (and apparently unless you're female and Alistair is with you and in love with you).

[SusanStoHelit]

Coldcall01 wrote...

And why would Alistair do it anyway? I would have thought it would be more in his character to rather sacrifice himself than create what is a demon child. This would be more taboo than even blood magic.

No - it isn't a demon child. It's a human (or half human/half dwarf depending) child with the soul of an old god. No demons are involved at all.

Can one let Logain live, and agree to the pact with Morrigan, and then make a final decision after the final battle?

A final decision about what after the final battle?

You can let Loghain live - but Alistair will leave your party permanently. Agree to the pact, then either you (if male) or Loghain (if you can persuade him) can carry it out. Loghain will then not die - because the pact has been carried out. Loghain is now a hero and a Grey Warden and gets off scot free. If you don't agree to the pact, then Loghain will wish to carry out the final blow - but can be talked out of it. Up to you what choice you make, but one of you will die.

[Coldcall01]

SusanStoHelit wrote...

No - it isn't a demon child. It's a human (or half human/half dwarf depending) child with the soul of an old god. No demons are involved at all.

I think the implication is that the child will be "special", perhaps not a demon, but it can't be a problem-free solution with an archdemon's soul.  Otherwise, why does Morrigan inistst the father can never lay eyes on the child?

I think its sinister and the child will become very powerful and perhaps "evil"later on down the line in Ferelden. Sounds like a potential storyline for the next DAO.

[Coldcall01]

SusanStoHelit wrote...

No - it isn't a demon child. It's a human (or half human/half dwarf depending) child with the soul of an old god. No demons are involved at all.

I think the implication is that the child will be "special", perhaps not a demon, but it can't be a problem-free solution with an archdemon's soul.  Otherwise, why does Morrigan inistst the father can never lay eyes on the child?

I think its sinister and the child will become very powerful and perhaps "evil"later on down the line in Ferelden. Sounds like a potential storyline for the next DAO.

[SusanStoHelit]

Oh, I didn't say that there might not be problems, but it needn't be evil. Morrigan has never lied to us - hidden things, yes, but not lied. She might be trying to use the child for her purposes - but that presupposes that she's more powerful than an old god.



Perhaps she's trying to save the old gods from the taint? Why would she choose to do so? I don't know. Except that blights are a danger to everyone. But if it works, if old gods can be saved - and not turn into archdemons - then it opens the possibility that the last remaining old gods could be similarly saved. And no more blights need ever occur. And that would be a good thing.



We don't have enough information to go on, it's all just guesses. But whatever Morrigan's plans, and if she does turn up in DAO2 with old god child in tow, I'm sure we'll have a chance to affect the outcome. If her plan is 'good' for want of a better word, we can help her (if we want to) and if it is 'evil' or nefarious, we can stop her. Sounds like fun.



Old god child - bring it on!

[Coldcall01]

SusanStoHelit wrote...

Oh, I didn't say that there might not be problems, but it needn't be evil. Morrigan has never lied to us - hidden things, yes, but not lied. She might be trying to use the child for her purposes - but that presupposes that she's more powerful than an old god.

Perhaps she's trying to save the old gods from the taint? Why would she choose to do so? I don't know. Except that blights are a danger to everyone. But if it works, if old gods can be saved - and not turn into archdemons - then it opens the possibility that the last remaining old gods could be similarly saved. And no more blights need ever occur. And that would be a good thing.

We don't have enough information to go on, it's all just guesses. But whatever Morrigan's plans, and if she does turn up in DAO2 with old god child in tow, I'm sure we'll have a chance to affect the outcome. If her plan is 'good' for want of a better word, we can help her (if we want to) and if it is 'evil' or nefarious, we can stop her. Sounds like fun.

Old god child - bring it on!

I agree, I dont see Morrigan as "evil" in typical sense, and  I like her character a lot. In fact her's is probably the deepest in the game.

However, i think she feels she can create someting very powerful through this pact as it interrupts the grey warden approach to killing archdemons. The idea that no sacrfice has to be made could have some seriously nasty consequences in years to come.  Duncan would likely be turning in his grave :-)

But I do think that may be the planned story for DAO2. They made a big deal of it in the game because one could have 3 different partners to Morrigan's pact. There is no other end of storyline that i can think of which sort of offers an opening to a new chapter in say 20 years Ferelden time when that child is nearing adulthood. In fact Im surprised Bioware did not do a sort of ME end of game save feature for the next installment. Maybe they will just choose one of the paths for the next game but which included the PC making the pact with Morrigan. It would be great if the PC was the child in DAO2, with Morrigan as "Mum" :-)

Personally i think its the most interesting continuation of the story/universe.

[Urazz]

Yard Waste wrote...

My main PC did the ritual and all was fine. I had arranged for Alistair to marry Anora. I let Logain live and Alistair says WTF and leaves. Reload and Kill Logain instead---Anora is pissed and refuses to marry Alistair.

From what I've read it's a matter of did you harden Alistair with his personal quest on seeing his sister.  If you do harden him and want to make him marry Anora and become king, then when you spare Loghain, he'll drop out of the party (and Loghain takes his place) but will still go to marry Anora and be King.