79 réponses à ce sujet

[thedancingdruid]

I think following Thessia, where Tali mentions that Javik had centuries to become "numb" to which he says it was necessary for survival has him at least beginning to contemplate the different circumstances he finds himself in upon awakening.

As far as Javik's attitude toward the Krogran/Turians I took his reasoning when speaking to Garrus to mean setting off the bomb back then, not now, though I might have misinterpreted.

Javik says he would not have hesitated to kill the Geth, prior to peace negotiations. He would have simply eliminated them from the onset. Given his prior conversations of organic/synthetic conflict in his lifetime or more importantly his cycle, this is not a surprising view, and could be countered to have strong reaching similar current feelings throughout the galaxy regarding synthetics, further evidenced by the Archive's footage in the Citadel DLC.

He touts his empire of the time, however he also sees the advantage of the cooperation and acknowledges that this cycle's individuality is what may bring success this time. He admits the homogenization of their time contributed to their downfall.

[iOnlySignIn]

What if Javik chooses Control?

Then the Galaxy is f*cked.

[thedancingdruid]

@iOnlySignIn Control and Synthesis would not be presented, the lift would not happen, the ghostly VI is not there. The Citadel is the Catalyst and the Crucible after the Citadel is docked fires from the control panel where Shepard/Anderson/T.I.M. were encountered.

Modifié par dafangirl, 07 avril 2013 - 09:06 .

[Pcmag1]

David7204 wrote...

Javik never says a thing indicating he's changed his mind one bit. In fact, even after Shepard cures the genophage and unites the geth and quarians, he still insists that it would have been better to kill them off. He doesn't see the Prothean empire as an abomination at all, he still touts it.

You could argue that his notion of suicide after witnessing the memory shard is indication that he has admitted to himself that his civilization gone and its legacy surpassed, and he therefore has no place in current cycle. Untill that moment he advocated that his mission (even if destined to failed) is to try to restore the superior (prothean) civilization. This is supported by fact that if you tell him not to watch it, he later expresses interest in helping Liara with her book on Protheans thus indicating that Galaxy should be influenced by Protheans.

[Pcmag1]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

What if Javik chooses Control?

Then the Galaxy is f*cked.

considering his mistrust to any form of AI I find it highly unlikely he wold even slow down to listen to it. And since destroy leads to destruction of all AI he wouldnt even hesitate.

[David7204]

That's true. Although you get a message on the Shadow Broker terminal indicating Javik is willing to help Liara with a book either way - it's not dependent on whether he looks at the shard or not.

[Pcmag1]

David7204 wrote...

That's true. Although you get a message on the Shadow Broker terminal indicating Javik is willing to help Liara with a book either way - it's not dependent on whether he looks at the shard or not.

Damn I must have missed that. 

[thedancingdruid]

And that book and the attitude would have all made more sense if the Crucible was left as a Prothean device.

[David7204]

How does the Crucible being Prothean or not change a damn thing about Javik's attitude and the book?

Modifié par David7204, 07 avril 2013 - 09:37 .

[thedancingdruid]

Because the Crucible represents the Prothean's outstanding contribution to the destruction of the Reapers and therefore the galaxy, of course, as well as their ingenuity in its creation, not to mention it leads to  the "united galaxy's" construction of it.

Modifié par dafangirl, 07 avril 2013 - 09:41 .

[David7204]

God, you sure love the Protheans, don't you? And the Crucible.

[thedancingdruid]

@David7204 Actually, no, I do not like the Crucible, it's a MacGuffin.

I merely was trying to present an alternative within the confines of the given story parameters. I was also trying hard not to get into yet another one of the incessant ending debates that plague these forums, which, thank the stars, has not happened here.

As far as the Protheans are concerned I probably would have preferred a balance between what Liara believed them to be and how Javik is represented of them actually being. That said, I can't do anything about that either. My feelings however positively or negatively for them however, do not diminish the rage one would feel at their, not extermination, but their horrible transition to the Collectors.

Modifié par dafangirl, 07 avril 2013 - 09:59 .

[David7204]

A 'MacGuffin' is not a derogatory term. It's a perfectly acceptable element of quality writing. And you're sure you don't like the Crucible? Not many people have described it as an 'outstanding contribution,' a work of 'ingenuity,' and a result of a 'united galaxy.' Plus your ending takes away the Catalyst and everything else, so the Crucible is doing all the work.

[themikefest]

David7204 wrote...

God, you sure love the Protheans, don't you? And the Crucible.

Why don't you make a thread about why you don't like the Protheans.


@dafangirl--I like your idea. I had a similiar idea that I posted a few months ago.

[David7204]

I don't particularly dislike the Protheans. But this isn't their story. It's Shepard's story. Shepard is one resolving the conflict and winning the war. Not the Protheans.

Modifié par David7204, 07 avril 2013 - 10:13 .

[thedancingdruid]

@David7204 I did not mean MacGuffin in a derogatory fashion, I have a degree in English Literature, have several unpublished manuscripts and am very familiar with its usage, and, I have stated that, in my opinion, it was presented early enough in ME3, and I like its redirection to Mars instead of where it was in the original script.

The adjectival descriptions surrounding it were more directed at your post and were a reaction to it as well as your questioning that the galaxy I said Shepard united which you said didn't do anything as a result of what I proposed. In the original, as stated a few times in this thread, Javik was the Catalyst and ME3 was a race against Cerberus to acquire him.

I simply went with what is already presented by Vendetta where he tells us at Cerberus HQ that the Citadel was the Catalyst and that it's been moved to Earth.

@themikefest Thank you. Can you post a link to your thread? I would like to read it.

Modifié par dafangirl, 07 avril 2013 - 10:24 .

[David7204]

Your last post said you don't like the Crucible. So if you think it's satisfying resolution to the conflict and you feel it was presented well, what's the problem with it?

[thedancingdruid]

@David7204 I do not object to the use of the Crucible itself, the MacGuffin is necessary at this point in the trilogy as a means to stop the Reapers, since conventional warfare has been thrown out the airlock.

If I go by your arguments, however, and place my theory in File 13, I have serious problems with the Crucible existing, as is, containing the Catalyst, a presented VI created by the Leviathans. A creation to answer a problem that may or may not exist. And, a problem that has only recently been presented as a main theme in the series itself.

This was not the quest Shepard originally set out on, but that is where it's at now.

[themikefest]

dafangirl wrote...

@themikefest Thank you. Can you post a link to your thread? I would like to read it.

It wasn't a thread I made, it was an idea I posted on a thread.

But here it is.

On the beam run(Javik is a must). The Normandy fires at Harbinger stunning him for a moment that allows femshep and squadmates to reach the beam

On the Citadel you encounter Cerberus troops. Javik or the other squadmember tells femshep to go open the arms while they hold off the enemy.

The conversation happens between femshep, TIM and Anderson. As you are about to shoot Anderson, TIM is shot by your squadmates. The arms open up and femshep, Anderson, Javik and squadmate take the magic carpet ride to the Leviathan turd.

It explains the options. At that point Javik says he will destroy the reapers so that they will hear the voice of the last Prothean. A shuttle picks up femshep.Anderson and squadmate.

As the ramp to the Normandy closes you see a bright red light.

[David7204]

Conventional victory would still have been possible. Not as ideally as it could be done if some things were tweaked here and there throughout ME 1 and ME 2, but possible nonetheless. Only for a 'perfect' playthough, of course.

If I'm reading this correctly, if looks as if your problem is with the Catalyst and Reaper motive, not the Crucible itself. So...you don't actually have a problem with the Crucible being used to resolve the conflict with no real complications? Just being a big Reaper-killing weapon?

Modifié par David7204, 07 avril 2013 - 10:48 .

[thedancingdruid]

@David7204 All things being equal with an amazing EMS run, post getting rid of the ridiculous MP requirement to reach it, I agree. I would rather see every single ship have a Thanix Cannon, whatever, and systematically take the Reapers down planet by planet if necessary.

Honestly, I'd rather the Reapers had a motive instead of being controlled by the current version of the Catalyst.

I wasn't trying to change BioWare's telling of their story as the Crucible is presented from the very beginning of ME3. I'll accept everything, story as is up to the very end. I just wanted to present a viable alternative to the Catalyst by using some of BioWare's own initial scripting with a little tweaking of my own.

[thedancingdruid]

@themikefest Thanks, though I object to the magic carpet ride, I appreciate your reply, nonetheless.

[robertthebard]

David7204 wrote...

Except the united galaxy didn't do a damn thing, did it? The Crucible did all the work. Javik did all the work. The united galaxy did nothing to solve the problem, did it? That's a problem.

Having a character who, as I said, gleefully advocates genocide save the galaxy and have the story just forget about does not validate cooperation at all. It does not validate peace and survival and all. What it validates is that the guy who says "the krogan need to die" and "the geth need to die" is ultimately the second-best character of the entire series!

Yeah, we have to totally ignore all the ships that showed up to escort it to the Citadel.  We also have to ignore all the people and resources from all over the galaxy that showed up to build it in the first place.  Otherwise, we'd end up with those resources actually contributing to it.  It's not like that's what we spent the entire game trying to do.  Oh, wait, aren't we ordered to do just that at the beginning of the game?  Frankly, I had hoped that the only function of the Crucible was a Reaper bomb.  This scenario fits right into what I had hoped it would be, and what it would do.  If the suggested scenario in the OP removed the near miss from Harbinger's laser, it would be almost perfect.  You see, you feel like the EC addressed some of the issues with the endings, but to me, it didn't address the most important one, we are forced into the position of believing that we survived a laser blast that rips a cruiser in half.  The heat, shrapnel, and electrical damage from all the electronics in our armor blowing out would have killed us, should have killed us, and in the majority of my games, it does kill Shepard.  If they added a Legend save right there, I wouldn't have to put up with the endings ever.  The only reason I do is to replay specific Shepards.

[Bill Casey]

Read you Prothean Style!



Read you Prothean Style!

The Reaper war I've seen before and then I was unfrozen
Out of those in the stasis pods I was the one who's chosen
Asari could only count upon their fingers and their toes and
Now I need them to kill the Reapers



All these primitives!
I am surrounded and I do not know just what gives
The quarians are suited and I'm on a sentient ship
Everyone wants to be my friend and I am sick of it
I'm sick of it!

All my friends are dead
I don't need more ahead
Leave me alone
Or you'll be thrown

You'll take a short walk
Out of the Airlock
I'll throw you out
There is no doubt
Then thow the reapers out the airlock and they'll pay
pay pay pay pay



Defeat them Prothean Style!

Modifié par Bill Casey, 08 avril 2013 - 02:55 .

[thedancingdruid]

@robertthebard Sorry, can't help with Harbinger. He absolutely gave me the chills in ME2 especially all the taunting during the suicide run, then seemed to space out, literally in ME3, made worse, in my opinion after the release of the EC.

@Bill Casey Thank you for that, very funny.