123 réponses à ce sujet

[IllusiveManJr]

Rubios wrote...

>Mass Effect 2
>RPG

Ocarina of Time was an action/ adventure game. 

[eroeru]

bEVEsthda wrote...

I read through this thread, and nowhere did I see 'Morrowind' or 'VtM:Bloodlines'.

Are they real modern?

[eroeru]

How is it significantly more possible for Shepard (and Hawke) than for Adam (or Geralt)?

Modifié par eroeru, 08 avril 2013 - 03:11 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

simfamSP wrote...

What? Yes. Human Revolution is certainly an RPG. How can you even compare the two? You don't have to shoot anyone if you don't want to (except the crappy bosses). That game allows you to truly build your character and role play. The leveling system is so far beyond any of the Mass Effect games, but especially 2, which had a leveling system that was so dumbed down I often question why it was included in the game at all.

Yeah...levelling systems. I'm not so big on them if they aren't integrated with dialogue mechanics. And this goes beyond persuasion feats.

I find it ironic that auto-dialogue is the damnation of roleplaying (of which I agree) but DE: HR has substantially more auto-dialogue than ME2.

As for the shooter mechanics, you're right, you can go full-out pacificst in Deus Ex and that's great. But are you really condemning ME2 for its shooter gameplay when soooo many RPGs (including Planescape) have many forced encounters and dungeons in which you *have* to fight.

I seriously don't get your complaint. How is ME2 *not* an RPG?

Ability to develop/define Shepard? Check (more so than Adam.)
Ability to make decisions in given situation? Check (DE is famous for it, I wouldn't have seen a sequel being so popular if they did not incorporate the same mechanics from the original.)

That's about all you need, regardless of how the game works, whether it's a shooter, sandbox, point-and-click adventure... that's the beauty of RPGs, you can put in absolutely anything.

Intricate and complex levelling systems are meaningless since they belong to most genres now, hell, I'd go as far and say COD's system is far better than ME2's, and that's an FPS.

I'm just going to go ahead and agree to disagree because I really don't want tto get into "What's an RPG?"

[bEVEsthda]

eroeru wrote...

bEVEsthda wrote...

I read through this thread, and nowhere did I see 'Morrowind' or 'VtM:Bloodlines'.

Are they real modern?

The OP dismissed Bloodlines because he considered it "incomplete". Morrowind is possibly missing because it's release date is a bit early.

And I suppose those views are both OK.

However: Morrowind could do most that Skyrim does. Actually, I would say some things are better in Morrowind. The most obvious flaws of Morrowind is that npcs move about completely random, and often spend days in, or even under, water in rivers or lakes. Unless they're shopowners they don't know if it's day or night either. 

I played VtM:B in its original form. It was still a great game. After the game's forced release and Troika was killed off, the game was still completed by now unpaid developers. And with a big free patch, the game has long been possible to enjoy in its full glory.

Modifié par bEVEsthda, 08 avril 2013 - 04:35 .

[bussinrounds]

From 2004 to now...(no specific order)

Fallout: New Vegas
Vampire: Bloodlines
'Souls' games
Knights of the Chalice
MotB

Atrocious decade for RPGs, but fear not, a new age and a RPG renaissance is upon us ! (starting with Chaos Chronicles this summer, then Divinity Original Sin, Wasteland 2, Project Etertinity, Shadowrun returns, Dead State, Grimoire, the new Torment, Age of Decadence...)

Modifié par bussinrounds, 08 avril 2013 - 05:27 .

[eroeru]

@bEV
Don't get me wrong, I prefer Morrowind in every way. But it really is a stretch to call it modern. It's a couple of gens back.

As to those "flaws", it actually made the game feel more organic and varied for me. Given that most NPCs don't do crazy sh!t and those who do aren't usually fleshed out or needed. 'Twas fun that cities were always alive and had some element of (natural-feeling jolly surprising) randomness to them.

Modifié par eroeru, 08 avril 2013 - 05:16 .

[Urgon]

1) Mask of the Betrayer (the closest thing to Planescape:Torment modern games managed to achive)
2) Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines(yes it counts)
3) DA:O (the closest thing to Baldur's Gate 2 modern games managed to achive)
4) Fallout New Vegas (the real sequel to the series and not the abomination F3 was)
5) KotOR 2
6) Alpha Protocol
7) -
8) -
9) -
10) -

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Probably The Witcher 2 and Dark souls.

[Il Divo]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

I think it's some sort of law that every discussion about or involving RPGs inevitably descends into subjective opinions about what exactly is and isn't an RPG.

I find it pretty funny, really.

Pretty much.

[Seboist]

EntropicAngel wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Solid list. Personally I'd add TW1, Fallout 3 and Mass Effect in there.

Really? That's a little surprising.


As for myself, it depends on what you mean by "RPG" of course. For myself, an RPG is a game you roleplay in--a game where you define your character.

As such, games like Demon/Dark Souls or TES games where your definition of the character is restricted to fairly generic save-or-kill choices that only vaguely define your character into two large groups, I only consider "lite" RPGs.

Further, games like Deus Ex and The Witcher have set protagonists with certain aspects of their character moldable, but others (and most in Deus Ex HR) set in stone. As such, they are "lite" RPGs.

In my opinion, the best RPGs are the ones that actually let you truly define your character. The only modern RPGs that I've played that do that are Bioware games.

As such, my answer would be the Bioware games.

Now, I will point out that I've really been unable to role-play in ME. I don't know why, maybe it was the voiced protag, maybe it was the setting, the set information about Shepard, but I was unable to. However, I still would say it is possible, and as such maintains their position at the *top* of the list.

RPGs are about recreating the P&P experience with stats,inventory, character customization(no not fluff like how they look),etc not LARPing as a self-insert or whatever fan fiction that only exists in the head of the player.

[Cimeas]

bEVEsthda wrote...

I read through this thread, and nowhere did I see 'Morrowind' or 'VtM:Bloodlines'.

I said from 2004, and MW came out in 2003, and I mentioned VTM in the first paragraph (or second one- I forget).   Basically I thought it had a lot of potential but it's hard to deny it was a majorly flawed game. 

[wsandista]

bussinrounds wrote...

'Souls' games

What do you mean by this?

[bussinrounds]

wsandista wrote...

bussinrounds wrote...

'Souls' games

What do you mean by this?

Demons and Dark Souls

[Cimeas]

I think looking back on the list, I might have put MotB a little higher, but the problem with it is that it's a wonderful campaign stuck on top of the crappy Neverwinter Nights 2 engine, with all it's numerous camera and systems problems.

I wonder if MotB had, says, been built on top of the Dragon Age toolset, I'm sure it would have been a much better game (obviously Bioware wouldn't let them do that, but just as a thought exercise).

A lot of the characters also lost something because they weren't voice acted imho.

[Urgon]

Cimeas wrote...

I think looking back on the list, I might have put MotB a little higher, but the problem with it is that it's a wonderful campaign stuck on top of the crappy Neverwinter Nights 2 engine, with all it's numerous camera and systems problems.

I wonder if MotB had, says, been built on top of the Dragon Age toolset, I'm sure it would have been a much better game (obviously Bioware wouldn't let them do that, but just as a thought exercise).

A lot of the characters also lost something because they weren't voice acted imho.

I agree and disagree at the same time. MotB in DA:O engine would be an improvement over NWN 2 engine, but what i would really like to see is MotB in Infinity engine like IWD2. I would kill for such a port, and MotB in IE would be equal or even better than many "classics".

[bussinrounds]

Urgon wrote...

Cimeas wrote...

I think looking back on the list, I might have put MotB a little higher, but the problem with it is that it's a wonderful campaign stuck on top of the crappy Neverwinter Nights 2 engine, with all it's numerous camera and systems problems.

I wonder if MotB had, says, been built on top of the Dragon Age toolset, I'm sure it would have been a much better game (obviously Bioware wouldn't let them do that, but just as a thought exercise).

A lot of the characters also lost something because they weren't voice acted imho.

I agree and disagree at the same time. MotB in DA:O engine would be an improvement over NWN 2 engine, but what i would really like to see is MotB in Infinity engine like IWD2. I would kill for such a port, and MotB in IE would be equal or even better than many "classics".

 Even better yet... in the ToEE engine.

   And yea, why would you want a d&d game in the DA engine which has those s***y MMO mechanics such as KOOLDOWNS and AGGRO ?