211 réponses à ce sujet

[Noctis Augustus]

According to David Gaider (http://social.biowar...x/14614580&lf=8),
you will NOT be forced to serve the Chantry or express belief in the
Maker. They will be attempting to allow you to actively express doubt or
belief, if the situation calls for it.

So you'll be able to express doubt or belief... What about disbelief!? Or something along the lines of "I don't believe in the Maker but if he does exist I will most definitely not worship him" Also what about the other religions of Thedas? Like the Old Gods, the Elven Pantheon, the Paragons and, although not exactly a religion, the Qun? What part will they play in DAIII: Inquisition?

What is your opinion about the topic? Would you like to declare your contextualized beliefs? Do you have a preference in any of them? Would you be frustated to only have a doubt or belief option?

Poll: Would you like to declare disbelief in religions in DAIII?

Modifié par ibbikiookami, 08 avril 2013 - 10:53 .

[Chiramu]

There should be the option to play an Atheist Inquisitor and facepalm every time someone rants on about the Maker.

[Heimdall]

Is there a discussion here? You seem to be asking questions we can't possibly know the answers to.

[Sith Grey Warden]

There weren't a lot of atheists in medieval Europe. Thedas is based on medieval Europe. Atheism is a very modern concept.

[LvrdAjay]

That would be pretty cool if we could choose which religion to follow or choose not to follow one right away...

[Noctis Augustus]

Sith Grey Warden wrote...

There weren't a lot of atheists in medieval Europe. Thedas is based on medieval Europe. Atheism is a very modern concept.

How can you know that? You would be burned to death if you expressed those beliefs, of course no one declared themselves as atheists.

[Philosophaster]

ibbikiookami wrote...

Sith Grey Warden wrote...

There weren't a lot of atheists in medieval Europe. Thedas is based on medieval Europe. Atheism is a very modern concept.

How can you know that? You would be burned to death if you expressed those beliefs, of course no one declared themselves as atheists.

You are right that there would be dire consequences for professing such beliefs in medieval Europe. I would imagine that the same dire consequences await those who publicly profess atheistic beliefs in Andrastian Thedas. You could privately express that sentiment with confidants behind closed doors, but to declare such beliefs in public would be unwise for someone as involved in politics as the PC will presumably be.

Edit: The dire consequences wouldn't necessarily be death, far more likely that the pariah status that would accompany public declaration would limit your ability to influence society at large.

Modifié par inconsiderate rick, 14 avril 2013 - 07:11 .

[DarthLaxian]

yes!

i am not that partial to real religions (i plan on leaving the catholic church as soon as they demind that i pay them for the "Privilege" of being a member, which they will!)

as for the maker:

there is no proof of him (hell, it is safer to pray to the old gods, at least we know they exist (arch-demons!) then to him) and his church has a lot of issues (i would love to see that cast down - by mages if possible!)

greetings LAX

Modifié par DarthLaxian, 07 avril 2013 - 10:59 .

[Goneaviking]

ibbikiookami wrote...

Sith Grey Warden wrote...

There weren't a lot of atheists in medieval Europe. Thedas is based on medieval Europe. Atheism is a very modern concept.

How can you know that? You would be burned to death if you expressed those beliefs, of course no one declared themselves as atheists.

Don't be hyperbolic, the burnings weren't anywhere near as commonplace as they're depicted in fiction and media.

As for the chronology of atheism, it has been around since classical greece and almost certainly existed before that. The conception of religion as the literal and unquestionable truth, is a much more recent innovation.

In regards to the questions posed in the OP. Why does anyone even care?

We don't know the specifics yet, in practice when people say someone expressed doubt in religion it usually means that they've expressed disbelief. If the game is heavy on qun influence why should we expect to be able to express meaningful opinions on the faith, or convert to it which I know some people have been lobbying for.

My best guess is the game isn't going to be focused on the personal faith of the protagonist, or the maybe divine origins of Thedas, which suits me fine.

[Twisted Path]

Sith Grey Warden wrote...

There weren't a lot of atheists in medieval Europe. Thedas is based on medieval Europe. Atheism is a very modern concept.

Yeah, on the one hand I liked that in the human noble origin you got the option to say that you didn't believe in the Maker. It's always nice to have as many character-defining roleplay options as possible. On the other hand it's hard to believe that in a medieval society that's mostly run by the Not-Catholic-Church people who didn't believe the church dogma wouldn't just keep that to themselves. At best you're going to get ostracized from society and at worst you're going to get stoned to death.

I think in all societies, even in ancient times, there have been people who didn't *really* believe the religious dogma they were taught, but they would still be inclined to give it lipservice. Being a "deal-with-it" atheist and rubbing that in people's faces is a very modern privilege.

[Zubie]

Oh it's this thread again

[MichaelStuart]

I have said it before, I will say it again.
I support all options to play as Atheist, Theist, and/or Agnostic.

[Noctis Augustus]

For Dumat's sake, I only want to express my contextualized views in Inquisition be it religion or not.

Modifié par ibbikiookami, 07 avril 2013 - 11:49 .

[Ridwan]

Blargh so many atheists, I'm afraid my Inquisitor will have to be hardcore religious to purify Thedas to make up for you lot. I'll send you the bill, oil isn't cheap.

[dgcatanisiri]

Aveline's a pretty good representation of what we could probably expect on an atheist in Thedas - she is uncertain and questioning of the Maker, and says that the Chant of Light is pretty, and that might be all that it needs to be. Morrigan would be a close second, though I'm hesitant to call her a reflection of what people in Thedas believe, given Flemeth's ideas on parenting and raising a child...

[Teddie Sage]

I'm not sure there really is atheism in Thedas, but agnosticism seems more common. But personally, I played a polite/kind non-believer Cousland (1-hand warrior w/shield) and a sarcastic/charming agnostic Hawke (dual-wield daggers rogue). It all depends on our personal tastes of playing our characters, I guess.

[BlueMagitek]

So you want to:

1) Discover that the Maker is real
2) Choose to disbelieve in the Maker

Uh, I can disbelieve in the sun, but the sun isn't going away. ~_^

[Teddie Sage]

BlueMagitek wrote...

Uh, I can disbelieve in the sun, but the sun isn't going away. ~_^

If you were trying to melt my brain, congrats... You did...

[TJPags]

I'm all for being able to profess disbelief in the Maker.

Not much into the idea that I may be working for the Chantry in the first place. Would much prefer that we be allowed some gameplay minus the religious aspect.

[Renmiri1]

MichaelStuart wrote...

I have said it before, I will say it again.
I support all options to play as Atheist, Theist, and/or Agnostic.

are you sure about that ? Maker may have made the sky or he might not... (Sorry remembering Hyperdrive's Chloe Teal singing her agnostic songs  )

On topic, David Gaider has said that everyone in Thedas is pretty much on board with the Maker's myth, since they were born and raised on it very few question it. Even the mages who suspect the Chantry is full of shiite still believe in the Maker.

[BlueMagitek]

It also brings up the question as to why a non dwarf would 'believe' in the Paragons (do you mean the Stone?) or why a non Dalish would follow the Creators. Considering the Old Gods are thought to be / are very killable Archdemons, why would you want to follow them?

[Renmiri1]

There is a difference between believing in the maker and following the Chantry Anders and many in Thedas know the Chantry is BS. But he uses Andraste's and Maker's lore to justify freedom for mages.

Same with believing in the creator or following all the Dalish Elven traditions. Merril believes in the Creator but she disagrees with her Dalish Keeper in pretty much all else.

Even here on the 21st century, Atheism might not mean rejection of all spiritualism. I've seen atheists who believe in New Age stuff, like healing crystals, atheists who use homeopathy, etc...

[Renmiri1]

BlueMagitek wrote...

It also brings up the question as to why a non dwarf would 'believe' in the Paragons (do you mean the Stone?) or why a non Dalish would follow the Creators. Considering the Old Gods are thought to be / are very killable Archdemons, why would you want to follow them?

Elves joining the Qun always mistify me.

[Teddie Sage]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Elves joining the Qun always mistify me.

I always thought it was because they share pointy ears in common.

[BlueMagitek]

Renmiri1 wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

It also brings up the question as to why a non dwarf would 'believe' in the Paragons (do you mean the Stone?) or why a non Dalish would follow the Creators. Considering the Old Gods are thought to be / are very killable Archdemons, why would you want to follow them?

Elves joining the Qun always mistify me.

Well they're City Elves, it is pretty obvious that the Creators suck and the Maker doesn't seem to care much about them, so why not join the Qun?  It's a chance for social advancement.