211 réponses à ce sujet

[Senya]

DarthLaxian wrote...

yes!

i am not that partial to real religions (i plan on leaving the catholic church as soon as they demind that i pay them for the "Privilege" of being a member, which they will!)

I actually doubt that given most priests I've met actually are as moral as they say they are and, I suppose this is a more compelling argument for you, it would be suicide in developed countries with modern media.

Now, to get back on topic, this is a tricky topic. I dislike how, in some other forums I have visited outside this site, talking about the religious aspect of Thedas can devolve into anti-religious rants. (I once got called a right-wing fascist for calling Anders a terrorist for blowing up the Chantry when on youtube). I do applaud Bioware for making this decision. Gamers should be able to make as many choices in Dragon Age as possible considering it's Bioware's modus operandi.

I think my character will believe in the Maker, but not necessarily the Chantry. He wouldn't hate it, but see it as a man-made institution at its best devoting itself to its mission while keeping an open-mind. He will be a mage, by the way.

He'd also see the Old Gods as evil considering the Blights if nothing else, but he'd be neutral on the Elven Pantheon. He'd believe they exist, but admit he doesn't know much about them other than what the Dalish say.

As for the Maker's existence, nothing is proven OR disproven. It's a choice and gives the series some ambiguity and it's best like that, in my opinion. It avoids the possibility of angering real world religious people or atheists.

Now, as a Catholic, I dislike the Chantry teaching on the Maker abandoning the world and don't see it as more as its own religion in a fictional game. But I hope they don't go into religion too much. Portray the Maker as good and existing: you anger the atheists. Portray the Maker as evil or nonexistent, then you anger the theists.

(Though, I would admit that there would be a sizeable portion in the above scenarios that don't care too much.)

That's my two cents.

[Noctis Augustus]

Created a poll, the developers can make out of it whatever they want if they even care. It will be very frustrating to not have the choice of disbelief... but there's nothing I can do about it. At least I hope I won't be forced to work with the Chantry, that would ruin my role playing experience completely.

[LobselVith8]

EntropicAngel wrote...

I see no evidence there that he's considering making atheism an option. Again, skepticism, but not atheism. 

You seem to be voicing this line of thought because Gaider originally said atheism didn't exist in Thedas:

David Gaider wrote...

There is no such thing as atheism in Thedas. Not sure why someone thinks it was an option in DAO-- possibly it's the same kind of interpretation as them thinking Hawke was "forced" into being a devout believer. Either way, it's not really an option we intend to include.

However, Gaider conceded that he was wrong on the same page:

David Gaider wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Probably because they could say things like "I've told you before I don't believe in the Maker" in the HN origin

If that was in there, then so be it. There wasn't intended to be an option to express atheism. And there certainly won't be again. 

In Xil's thread, Gaider again conceded that he was wrong because it was available in Origins, and conceded that fans remembered better than he did (here's that specific snippet):

Dave Gaider wrote...

Yes, there was indeed the occasional dialogue option to express it-- something you guys obviously remember better than we do (writing something over six years will definitely do that, let me tell you).

Furthermore, after many people voiced their opposition to this, Gaider changed his mind about permitting the protagonist to be an atheist in Thedas:

David Gaider wrote...

Okay, so. Without going into specifics on the plot of DA3, because I can't do that, I will say the following:

You aren't going to be forced to serve the Chantry or even think it's a good thing. You aren't forced to express belief in the Maker. I said previously we would try to allow options to actively express doubt, if that's your thing, so long as it works in context. You of course will also have the option to do the opposite.

Ultimately, the ability to determine the personality and/or feelings on your own character is one of the fundamental strengths of an RPG, and one that DA is sticking with. Yes, it must also work within the context of the setting and the plot-- you can't do anything-- but that's always been the case with any game, and in the case of DA3 it is not required that you be forced into a certain set of beliefs in order to make it work.

You also participated in this thread, and we discussed the matter. I'm sure you probably forgot about it, though. I hope this is sufficient for you.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 08 avril 2013 - 10:33 .

[Noctis Augustus]

David Gaider wrote...

There is no such thing as atheism in Thedas. Not sure why someone thinks it was an option in DAO-- possibly it's the same kind of interpretation as them thinking Hawke was "forced" into being a devout believer. Either way, it's not really an option we intend to include.

Atheism =/= not believing in this "Maker"

All I want is to be able to express that I don't believe in this "Maker". Even if he exists and I'm wrong. If we have concrete proof that he exists I still don't want to worship him.

Example
(This so called Maker appears)
Companion: "The Maker exists!"
Me: "So?"
Companion: "You must worship him!"
Me: "Not a chance."

It's the same with the Old Gods... they exist but you don't necessarily worship them.

*sigh* I'm giving examples now... Hope I don't have to draw a picture.

Modifié par ibbikiookami, 08 avril 2013 - 11:00 .

[LobselVith8]

Dave of Canada wrote...

The fact that every protagonist aside from the Dalish Warden and Dwarven Wardens were raised with non-stop dogma and Chantry politics following them everywhere would make it rather difficult for me to believe that they'd be "athiest" in the modern sense of the term, Thedas doesn't have wide-spread education and the only people we're really seeing studying theology are Chantry-approved scholars.

I respectfully disagree. Aside from the fact that atheism isn't a modern concept, I can imagine that there are people who would doubt the teachings of the Andrastian Chantry for many different reasons. Personally, it was rather effortless for me to think that my elven mage wouldn't believe in a religion that - in his view - invaded the homeland of his ancestors because his people refused to convert to the Chantry (which is precisely what the elven Warden can take the Chantry to task for) and as a mage who has disdain for an anti-mage religion. In all honesty, I couldn't imagine why my apostate Hawke was limited to only voicing a religiously Andrastian point of view, because it made absolutely no sense to me.

Dave of Canada wrote...

Thus, I feel the closest thing to "athiesm" which I enjoy is full belief or hating what the Chantry does with the wide-spread dogma (similar to Anders in DA2), though I'll admit that upsets many people (the usual suspects) who hate religion themselves and can't seperate themselves from their character. 

Who do pro-Chantry posters constantly try to paint people who dislike the Chantry as individuals who hate all religion? All it does is provoke people into getting into arguments. There are multiple reasons why some people despise the Chantry. Right off the top of my head: invading other nations to force the people to convert to their religion, the alleged invasion of the Dales because the elves refused to convert to the Chantry of Andraste, outlawing the elven religion, the support of Orlesian occupations (which is why Loghain and Maric discussed what they were going to do about the local Chantry in Ferelden), and the subjugation of mages in a system that is labelled as slavery by some people.

It's not too difficult to see why some people hate the Chantry - because those people see it as a horrific organization that continues to engage in horrendous behavior. If anything, some people hate how the Chantry uses religion to justify their monstrous actions.

Furthermore, I don't see why you view Anders as an atheist. He takes Merrill to task for having Dalish religious views when it comes to her perception of the denizens of the Fade being spirits, rather than Spirits and Demons who are the First Children of the Maker. It's clear that he fully believes in the religious teachings of the Andrastian Chantry; his only contention with the Chantry is their treatment of mages. Anders even believes in the fable of the Golden City, per Awakening and Act II's "Tevinter Amulet" quest.

Note: I realize Anders' behavior in Legacy directly contradicts both his characterization in Awakening and the main Dragon Age II game.

TheJediSaint wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Thus, I feel the closest thing to "athiesm" which I enjoy is full belief or hating what the Chantry does with the wide-spread dogma (similar to Anders in DA2), though I'll admit that upsets many people (the usual suspects) who hate religion themselves and can't seperate themselves from their character.

I don't think that there's anything wrong with projecting one's self into the protagonist an RPG.   But I think that for people who hold strong real-world prejudices, they get upset when they cant express them in-game.

Playing as an atheist in a fictional fantasy setting doesn't make a player an atheist in real life, and being an atheist in real life doesn't mean one has a prejudice for all religion, either. As I previously pointed out: there are many, many reasons why some people don't want to play as a character who is religiously Andrastian, and it's disingenuous of you to say it's because they harbor real life prejudices about religion.

TheJediSaint wrote...

There's also the issue that threads like this tend to devolve into either flamewars or soap-boxes. 

It isn't helped by people who vilify one side of the discussion. Perhaps you should keep that in mind next time?

[Noctis Augustus]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

The fact that every protagonist aside from the Dalish Warden and Dwarven Wardens were raised with non-stop dogma and Chantry politics following them everywhere would make it rather difficult for me to believe that they'd be "athiest" in the modern sense of the term, Thedas doesn't have wide-spread education and the only people we're really seeing studying theology are Chantry-approved scholars.

I respectfully disagree. Aside from the fact that atheism isn't a modern concept, I can imagine that there are people who would doubt the teachings of the Andrastian Chantry for many different reasons. Personally, it was rather effortless for me to think that my elven mage wouldn't believe in a religion that - in his view - invaded the homeland of his ancestors because his people refused to convert to the Chantry (which is precisely what the elven Warden can take the Chantry to task for) and as a mage who has disdain for an anti-mage religion. In all honesty, I couldn't imagine why my apostate Hawke was limited to only voicing a religiously Andrastian point of view, because it made absolutely no sense to me.

Dave of Canada wrote...

Thus, I feel the closest thing to "athiesm" which I enjoy is full belief or hating what the Chantry does with the wide-spread dogma (similar to Anders in DA2), though I'll admit that upsets many people (the usual suspects) who hate religion themselves and can't seperate themselves from their character. 

Who do pro-Chantry posters constantly try to paint people who dislike the Chantry as individuals who hate all religion? All it does is provoke people into getting into arguments. There are multiple reasons why some people despise the Chantry. Right off the top of my head: invading other nations to force the people to convert to their religion, the alleged invasion of the Dales because the elves refused to convert to the Chantry of Andraste, outlawing the elven religion, the support of Orlesian occupations (which is why Loghain and Maric discussed what they were going to do about the local Chantry in Ferelden), and the subjugation of mages in a system that is labelled as slavery by some people.

It's not too difficult to see why some people hate the Chantry - because those people see it as a horrific organization that continues to engage in horrendous behavior. If anything, some people hate how the Chantry uses religion to justify their monstrous actions.

Furthermore, I don't see why you view Anders as an atheist. He takes Merrill to task for having Dalish religious views when it comes to her perception of the denizens of the Fade being spirits, rather than Spirits and Demons who are the First Children of the Maker. It's clear that he fully believes in the religious teachings of the Andrastian Chantry; his only contention with the Chantry is their treatment of mages. Anders even believes in the fable of the Golden City, per Awakening and Act II's "Tevinter Amulet" quest.

Note: I realize Anders' behavior in Legacy directly contradicts both his characterization in Awakening and the main Dragon Age II game.

TheJediSaint wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Thus, I feel the closest thing to "athiesm" which I enjoy is full belief or hating what the Chantry does with the wide-spread dogma (similar to Anders in DA2), though I'll admit that upsets many people (the usual suspects) who hate religion themselves and can't seperate themselves from their character.

I don't think that there's anything wrong with projecting one's self into the protagonist an RPG.   But I think that for people who hold strong real-world prejudices, they get upset when they cant express them in-game.

Playing as an atheist in a fictional fantasy setting doesn't make a player an atheist in real life, and being an atheist in real life doesn't mean one has a prejudice for all religion, either. As I previously pointed out: there are many, many reasons why some people don't want to play as a character who is religiously Andrastian, and it's disingenuous of you to say it's because they harbor real life prejudices about religion.

TheJediSaint wrote...

There's also the issue that threads like this tend to devolve into either flamewars or soap-boxes. 

It isn't helped by people who vilify one side of the discussion. Perhaps you should keep that in mind next time?

This. Couldn't have said it better.

Modifié par ibbikiookami, 08 avril 2013 - 11:01 .

[The Elder King]

I'd like to have more options to express our belief, doubt or lack of belief in DAI. More option in developing our character are always welcomed.

Modifié par hhh89, 08 avril 2013 - 11:11 .

[LobselVith8]

ibbikiookami wrote...

So... You can't claim disbelief...? I... Wha-? That's very disapointing... to outright take that choice from their buyers. So they want us to be like them? Follow their path? Isn't this a Role Playing Game!? I don't want to destroy religion! I do want to destroy the Chantry but that's not because it's a religion, it's because of what they are as a religion! This will be frustrating... 

I apologize I didn't address this sooner. Gaider already conceded that he made a mistake when he originally said that atheism didn't exist in Thedas, as I pointed out to EntropicAngel.

Also, after many fans voiced their opposition to his initial comments about not allowing the next protagonist to be atheist, Gaider changed his mind (which you can read in the same post I made to EntropicAngel).

Personally, Hawke being limited to expressing a religiously Andrastian point of view broke my immersion with the character. I hated how Hawke was limited to voicing one point of view when his mother died: that she was with the Maker. I hated how Hawke told Feynriel that he hoped the Maker would watch over him, when Feynriel doesn't follow the Maker, and his people believe that the Chantry destroyed the Dales because the elves refused to convert to the Chantry. Why is Hawke - who is supposed to be my character - limited to one point of view? If I'm playing as an apostate, I don't want to play as someone who believes in a religion that has vilified and enslaved my people for nearly a millennia.

It's part of my disappointment with Dragon Age II. I don't have any desire to play as a character who would follow the Chantry of Andraste, especially as a mage protagonist. It doesn't make any sense to me. I welcome the return of the atheist option for the next protagonist.

[pmac_tk421]

As an atheist I would like to translate that over to my character, but I have a feeling that this thread is gonna go down hill fast. Talking about religion on the internet never ends well.

[The Elder King]

pmac_tk421 wrote...

As an atheist I would like to translate that over to my character, but I have a feeling that this thread is gonna go down hill fast. Talking about religion on the internet never ends well.

Because some people of both sides tend to become angry when they discuss this topic, and start throwing insults or going too far. Which is the reason why a lot of mage/templar threads tend to be locked.

[ledod]

Hopefully there is some kinky atonement shiz; maybe chainz 'n whipz.

[Senya]

I hope it's not just atheism that is included along with Andrastianism. It'd be interesting if the main character can express belief in the Dalish Pantheon.

I don't hold much hope, considering the main character is human, but one can dream. I do hope I can have my character say they believe in the Maker and Andraste if not the Chantry or say it's a man-made institution doing its best/been abused by Divines or the Orlesian Monarchs.

Acknowledging the Dalish gods exist might work too, maybe.

[brushyourteeth]

More options is a good thing.

More options that are there because fans with very strong opinions about real-life religions demand them at the expense of the developers' vision for the world and the lore is a bad thing.

If there's room in the lore for more religious options, I'd love to explore them. If they're written in because the writers are bullied by the fandom, I'm way against.

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 08 avril 2013 - 11:38 .

[LobselVith8]

almostinsane99 wrote...

I hope it's not just atheism that is included along with Andrastianism. It'd be interesting if the main character can express belief in the Dalish Pantheon.

I don't hold much hope, considering the main character is human, but one can dream. I do hope I can have my character say they believe in the Maker and Andraste if not the Chantry or say it's a man-made institution doing its best/been abused by Divines or the Orlesian Monarchs.

Acknowledging the Dalish gods exist might work too, maybe.

Like a half-human, half-elven character, such as Feynriel?

[Noctis Augustus]

LobselVith8 wrote...

ibbikiookami wrote...

So... You can't claim disbelief...? I... Wha-? That's very disapointing... to outright take that choice from their buyers. So they want us to be like them? Follow their path? Isn't this a Role Playing Game!? I don't want to destroy religion! I do want to destroy the Chantry but that's not because it's a religion, it's because of what they are as a religion! This will be frustrating... 

I apologize I didn't address this sooner. Gaider already conceded that he made a mistake when he originally said that atheism didn't exist in Thedas, as I pointed out to EntropicAngel.

Also, after many fans voiced their opposition to his initial comments about not allowing the next protagonist to be atheist, Gaider changed his mind (which you can read in the same post I made to EntropicAngel).

Personally, Hawke being limited to expressing a religiously Andrastian point of view broke my immersion with the character. I hated how Hawke was limited to voicing one point of view when his mother died: that she was with the Maker. I hated how Hawke told Feynriel that he hoped the Maker would watch over him, when Feynriel doesn't follow the Maker, and his people believe that the Chantry destroyed the Dales because the elves refused to convert to the Chantry. Why is Hawke - who is supposed to be my character - limited to one point of view? If I'm playing as an apostate, I don't want to play as someone who believes in a religion that has vilified and enslaved my people for nearly a millennia.

It's part of my disappointment with Dragon Age II. I don't have any desire to play as a character who would follow the Chantry of Andraste, especially as a mage protagonist. It doesn't make any sense to me. I welcome the return of the atheist option for the next protagonist.

That's good.

I know, it's one of the many reasons I hate DAII.

[addiction21]

A disbelief in the maker =/= atheism.

Saying god bless you when someone sneezes does not make one Christian.

Whatever its the same few people going around the same circles as they have countless times before.

[LobselVith8]

brushyourteeth wrote...

More options is a good thing.

More options that are there because fans with very strong opinions about real-life religions demand them at the expense of the developers' vision for the world and the lore is a bad thing.

If there's room in the lore for more religious options, I'd love to explore them. If they're written in because the writers are bullied by the fandom, I'm way against.

People expressed their desire to see the return of an option that existed in Origins.

The Cousland protagonist could say that he (or she) didn't believe in the Maker. The elven Warden could condemn the Chantry for invading the Dales because the elves refused to convert, and make it clear that he didn't see the Maker as his god. The Warden could tell Leliana that he didn't view Andraste as a divine person. In fact, the elven Warden could tell Velanna that Andraste used their people for her own ends. The Warden-Commander could tell Justice that belief in the Maker was a "foolish superstition".

When Hawke was limited to one point of view: telling Merrill that his mother was with the Maker, without any option of providing a different point of view, or telling Feynriel that he hopes the Maker guides him and watches over him, then one of the options that players previously had in Origins was removed. I'm not interested in playing as a character who is religiously Andrastian. I certainly wasn't alone in expressing that I had no interest in playing as a religiously Andrastian character.

[brushyourteeth]

LobselVith8 wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

More options is a good thing.

More options that are there because fans with very strong opinions about real-life religions demand them at the expense of the developers' vision for the world and the lore is a bad thing.

If there's room in the lore for more religious options, I'd love to explore them. If they're written in because the writers are bullied by the fandom, I'm way against.

People expressed their desire to see the return of an option that existed in Origins.

The Cousland protagonist could say that he (or she) didn't believe in the Maker. The elven Warden could condemn the Chantry for invading the Dales because the elves refused to convert, and make it clear that he didn't see the Maker as his god. The Warden could tell Leliana that he didn't view Andraste as a divine person. In fact, the elven Warden could tell Velanna that Andraste used their people for her own ends. The Warden-Commander could tell Justice that belief in the Maker was a "foolish superstition".

When Hawke was limited to one point of view: telling Merrill that his mother was with the Maker, without any option of providing a different point of view, or telling Feynriel that he hopes the Maker guides him and watches over him, then one of the options that players previously had in Origins was removed. I'm not interested in playing as a character who is religiously Andrastian. I certainly wasn't alone in expressing that I had no interest in playing as a religiously Andrastian character.

I hear you, and I think you raise some very valid points. But I stand by what I said earlier -- only if it fits with the developers' vision for the lore and characters. If it does, great!

[Cainhurst Crow]

I'm agnostic, but I don't feel that I need to smear my religious and philosophical belief into every aspect of my life, or the lives of my fictional characters. If I can express a healthy amount of skepticism and doubt, maybe crack a joke or two about it, than that's good. If I can't do it the exact way I want to, than that's fine to, it's not my world and not me whose doing stuff on the screen. I'll influence what I can, and let the rest play out just as is. Why people feel so strongly that their medieval characters must be a hard atheist, even though atheism in these times would have been an ex communicable offense, a ostracizing fact, and in some places a punishable offense, I don't quite understand, but whatever. Why is skepticism not enough? Why does the character need to have total, 100% disbelief, in the maker, or else it is simply not good enough?

I digress though, it is an argument I will not be able to understand from people who feel it is such a big deal to do.

[LobselVith8]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

I'm agnostic, but I don't feel that I need to smear my religious and philosophical belief into every aspect of my life, or the lives of my fictional characters. If I can express a healthy amount of skepticism and doubt, maybe crack a joke or two about it, than that's good. If I can't do it the exact way I want to, than that's fine to, it's not my world and not me whose doing stuff on the screen. I'll influence what I can, and let the rest play out just as is.

That's what people want - to play in a way they find entertaining. For some, playing as a character who is religiously Andrastian isn't fun. Some people think the Chantry is the fulcrum of evil.

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Why people feel so strongly that their medieval characters must be a hard atheist, even though atheism in these times would have been an ex communicable offense, a ostracizing fact, and in some places a punishable offense, I don't quite understand, but whatever. Why is skepticism not enough? Why does the character need to have total, 100% disbelief, in the maker, or else it is simply not good enough?

This freedom was avaliable in Origins.

Darth Brotarian wrote...

I digress though, it is an argument I will not be able to understand from people who feel it is such a big deal to do.

Some fans want to RP as an atheist, for different reasons. For me, playing as a mage protagonist who follows the Chantry makes no sense.

[Senya]

LobselVith8 wrote...

almostinsane99 wrote...

I hope it's not just atheism that is included along with Andrastianism. It'd be interesting if the main character can express belief in the Dalish Pantheon.

I don't hold much hope, considering the main character is human, but one can dream. I do hope I can have my character say they believe in the Maker and Andraste if not the Chantry or say it's a man-made institution doing its best/been abused by Divines or the Orlesian Monarchs.

Acknowledging the Dalish gods exist might work too, maybe.

Like a half-human, half-elven character, such as Feynriel?

That'd be interesting.

Really, the more options available, if done right, the better. The one thing I want the most, however, is for real life arguments about religion to not affect the game or community. That might be wishful thinking, considering the nature of the internet.

LobselVith8 wrote...

Some fans want to RP as an atheist,
for different reasons. For me, playing as a mage protagonist who follows
the Chantry makes no sense.

Actually, as someone planning on playing a mage, I think it can make sense, depending on your character's point of view. An Aequitarian believing that mages need to adhere to a sort of code might follow the Chantry and want to work with it to strike a balance between freedom and safety as the Circles have failed to do.

Or he or she might want to reform the Chantry and see it as what it might be if it took the right path. I believe someone quoted MLK in this topic and a mage might have a similar viewpoint.

Or, a mage might be simply an Andrastian that believes in a less hiearchal structure and shrink it or return Andrastianism to the way it was in the years between Andraste's death and the Chantry's founding.

But, I think player choice as long as it corresponds with the lore is important. If not atheism, then skepticism I think can be an option. I don't see any of my characters being skeptical of religion so much as authority, but I think it should be there.

But, I swear, if there are vids of the Inquistor say he's atheist/Andrastian followed by the opposite, then the former, then the latter, then the former...

Modifié par almostinsane99, 09 avril 2013 - 01:30 .

[Allan Schumacher]

All I want is to be able to express that I don't believe in this "Maker". Even if he exists and I'm wrong. If we have concrete proof that he exists I still don't want to worship him.

This is a bit different than atheism then. If you don't like the Maker, as a quote by Gaider earlier in this thread from LobselVith8:

You aren't going to be forced to serve the Chantry or even think it's a good thing. You aren't forced to express belief in the Maker. I said previously we would try to allow options to actively express doubt, if that's your thing, so long as it works in context. You of course will also have the option to do the opposite.

So you may not have the ability to actively speak out against The Maker, you by no means are forced to worship the Maker either, nor express belief in him.

[Volus Warlord]

Allan Schumacher wrote...


So you may not have the ability to actively speak out against The Maker, you by no means are forced to worship the Maker either, nor express belief in him.

That's great but I want to be more obnoxious about it.

[pmac_tk421]

hhh89 wrote...

pmac_tk421 wrote...

As an atheist I would like to translate that over to my character, but I have a feeling that this thread is gonna go down hill fast. Talking about religion on the internet never ends well.

Because some people of both sides tend to become angry when they discuss this topic, and start throwing insults or going too far. Which is the reason why a lot of mage/templar threads tend to be locked.

My point exactly. We're teetering on the edge of a flame war here. All I'm saying is be careful. This is an interesting discussion, so lets not derail it. On topic, I don't remeber a ton of options to express open doubt in the Maker. There were one or two moments. Or maybe I just don't remember them all. Who knows.

[Senya]

Volus Warlord wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...


So you may not have the ability to actively speak out against The Maker, you by no means are forced to worship the Maker either, nor express belief in him.

That's great but I want to be more obnoxious about it.

Setting or lore might have something to do with this, if I am guessing right. Maybe if Thedas ever reaches the 20th/21st century. Still, I'm glad there's an option not to express belief. My characters would probably express belief, but that's my reading of the setting.