41 réponses à ce sujet

[Dendio1]

auragon132 wrote...

The catalyst communicates telepathically. It got in shepards head, found the image of the kid, then used it as a way of presenting itself. The images of the illusive man and TIM at the controls are also telepathically communicated images.

The leviathans also have this ability. It stands to reason that they would find a way to allow their AI creation to "speak" using their methods.

The way I understand it is the kid was a indoctination attempt to make Shepard do the wrong thing control or synthesis beckoning to the Repears will as destroy was the Leviathans "mind controlling" the repears for even the option to destory them, seems all likely in my head. 

Then again, Bioware stresses that every shepard has their own canon...so its only fair to assume that
IT is canon if you truely believe it to be so for your shepard

Modifié par Dendio1, 07 avril 2013 - 10:49 .

[DWH1982]

AlanC9 wrote...

The only issue I have with this interpretation is Shepard riding up on the elevator. If Shepard's unconscious, whose POV is that from? I suppose we can work around it by saying that Shep's semiconscious

The elevator is in his head too.

Modifié par DWH1982, 07 avril 2013 - 10:50 .

[PwrdOff]

Ah yes, the Catalyst, we have dismissed that claim.

[AlanC9]

DWH1982 wrote...

The elevator is in his head too.

He remembers an elevator ride he took while he was unconscious?  Or is he not unconscious?

Modifié par AlanC9, 07 avril 2013 - 10:51 .

[arial]

Dendio1 wrote...

auragon132 wrote...

The catalyst communicates telepathically. It got in shepards head, found the image of the kid, then used it as a way of presenting itself. The images of the illusive man and TIM at the controls are also telepathically communicated images.

The leviathans also have this ability. It stands to reason that they would find a way to allow their AI creation to "speak" using their methods.

The way I understand it is the kid was a indoctination attempt to make Shepard do the wrong thing control or synthesis beckoning to the Repears will as destroy was the Leviathans "mind controlling" the repears for even the option to destory them, seems all likely in my head. 

Then again, Bioware stresses that every shepard has their own canon...so its only fair to assume that
IT is canon if you truely believe it to be so for your shepard

you are obviously taking that quote out of context

[AlexMBrennan]

I forgot. BSN has to many trolls should had thought before I posted.

Says the guy posting an IT thread on a board banning IT threads. Go find an IT group

[DWH1982]

AlanC9 wrote...

DWH1982 wrote...

The elevator is in his head too.

He remembers an elevator ride he took while he was unconscious?  Or is he not unconscious?

The Catalyst does it in his mind to make it seem like he's going to a new room. It makes the switch over from being conscience into being fed informatoin from the mental interface a lot more seamless, and it tends to alarm the subject a lot less than having them just "appear" in a new room.

Modifié par DWH1982, 07 avril 2013 - 10:52 .

[auragon132]

Obviously by my join date the BSN forums has some sort of thing in place, I guess I became a fan to late to join the conversations, apologies.

And no, i'm not assuming anything or claiming anything.

[DWH1982]

auragon132 wrote...

Obviously by my join date the BSN forums has some sort of thing in place, I guess I became a fan to late to join the conversations, apologies.

And no, i'm not assuming anything or claiming anything.

Look up Indoctrination Theory, if you haven't heard of it.

There was a lot of fighting over the idea, and frankly more than a few bruised feelings. Suggesting that Starbrat might not be real is kind of, sort of veering into IT territory, which gets everyone riled up again.

By orders of the mods, direct discussion of IT is also not supposed to take place in the forums anymore. It's been relegated to groups.

[auragon132]

DWH1982 wrote...

auragon132 wrote...

Obviously by my join date the BSN forums has some sort of thing in place, I guess I became a fan to late to join the conversations, apologies.

And no, i'm not assuming anything or claiming anything.

Look up Indoctrination Theory, if you haven't heard of it.

There was a lot of fighting over the idea, and frankly more than a few bruised feelings. Suggesting that Starbrat might not be real is kind of, sort of veering into IT territory, which gets everyone riled up again.

By orders of the mods, direct discussion of IT is also not supposed to take place in the forums anymore. It's been relegated to groups.

I'm quite well aware of the IT theory I just didn't know BSN didn't like talking about it, again, I was not here when the uproar happened and the speculations went wild and mods began to close topics about it. Honestly, I didn't think my question would raise the IT theory, guess I became a fan too late.

[DWH1982]

auragon132 wrote...

I'm quite well aware of the IT theory I just didn't know BSN didn't like talking about it, again, I was not here when the uproar happened and the speculations went wild and mods began to close topics about it. Honestly, I didn't think my question would raise the IT theory, guess I became a fan too late.

Sadly, the BSN can be a rough place sometimes. There's just not much else I can do that's Mass Effect related, though.

I never got overly involved in the whole IT debate, and to be honest I've never understood why people get so upset over it. I think part of it may have been that some people were overzealous in promoting it, but then again I understand at IT threads were also subject to trolling.

Personally, if someone wants to use IT as a way of interpreting endings that, frankly, I feel suck, I'm fine with letting them do that. I only hesitantly discuss the catalyst at all because half the time I just headcanon him out of the ending anyway.

[AlexMBrennan]

The problem is really quite simple - there is no reason to believe in any particular "it was all a dream" scenario. Once you start throwing out canon because "it was all just a dream", then why stop at the elevator scene? I didn't much like ME2 (nothing happened so Bioware basically wasted one game), so I could headcanon everything after the destruction of the Normandy SR1 to be a near-death-experience/hallucination of some sort. But why stop there - *everything* could just be Joe Random's dream.

At the end of the day, any such hypothesis is not falsifiable and discussing it is meaningless - nothing in the game could prove your ideas wrong. That means that calling a "theory" is preposterous.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

auragon132 wrote...

Kind of a vague question I had my entire Mass Effect expierence, does anyone believe that it existed in the first place or is my speculation wrong. If it does exist what is it true identity is it? 

Speculation:  There is no elevator. There is no child. The intelligence interfaces with an implant in Shepard and appears as a child in Shepard's mind on the platform with the panel where Anderson is. The entire scene takes place in Shepard's mind. There are no control rods. There is no beam. There is no tube. There is only Shepard's mind link to the Intelligence. Shepard is actually the catalyst, IMO. The Intelligence comes up with new possibilities, but only Shepard can make them happen. Therefore by definition, Shepard is the Catalyst.

The "decision chamber" is symbolic like the Geth Consensus. It presents images so that Shepard can relate to them. There is a keeper standing nearby Shepard. If Shepard chooses Control or Synthesis, the Keeper zaps Shepard and takes Shepard to the appropriate processing point and the Crucible fires appropriately. If Shepard chooses Destroy the Keeper leaves Shepard alone and the Crucible fires as intended. If Shepard refuses, the Keeper leaves Shepard alone and the harvest continues.

It is as valid an interpretation as the decision chamber. It has the same meaning, and it has the same result. The difference is that there is no exploding plasma conduit, and it makes more sense for Shepard to survive the High EMS Destroy ending.

This is my interpretation. Take it for what it is.

This is not IT.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 08 avril 2013 - 06:45 .

[Bill Casey]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

auragon132 wrote...

Kind of a vague question I had my entire Mass Effect expierence, does anyone believe that it existed in the first place or is my speculation wrong. If it does exist what is it true identity is it? 

Speculation:  There is no elevator. There is no child. The intelligence interfaces with an implant in Shepard and appears as a child in Shepard's mind on the platform with the panel where Anderson is. The entire scene takes place in Shepard's mind. There are no control rods. There is no beam. There is no tube. There is only Shepard's mind link to the Intelligence. Shepard is actually the catalyst, IMO. The Intelligence comes up with new possibilities, but only Shepard can make them happen. Therefore by definition, Shepard is the Catalyst.

The "decision chamber" is symbolic like the Geth Consensus. It presents images so that Shepard can relate to them. There is a keeper standing nearby Shepard. If Shepard chooses Control or Synthesis, the Keeper zaps Shepard and takes Shepard to the appropriate processing point and the Crucible fires appropriately. If Shepard chooses Destroy the Keeper leaves Shepard alone and the Crucible fires as intended. If Shepard refuses, the Keeper leaves Shepard alone and the harvest continues.

It is as valid an interpretation as the decision chamber. It has the same meaning, and it has the same result. The difference is that there is no exploding plasma conduit, and it makes more sense for Shepard to survive the High EMS Destroy ending.

This is my interpretation. Take it for what it is.

This is not IT.

That would explain why everything is a metaphor and the screen keeps fading to white...
Wait...
Wait...



Is this the Hyperion Cantos?

In the 28th century, humanity has spread across the galaxy, first aboard "Hawking drive" ships and then through "farcasters", which permit nigh instantaneous travel between them regardless of the distances.

Lamia, at Keep Chronos, recovers the necessary supplies and returns to the Valley, but is also attacked by the Shrike and loses consciousness. She next awakes at the fringe of the TechnoCore, in one of its computerized realities, in the company of her implanted John Keats persona. After a conversation with a major AI named Ummon reveals several motivations of the TechnoCore and the war between the human and AI ultimate intelligences, the persona is killed by Ummon, and Lamia is released into unconsciousness.

Gladstone orders the immediate destruction of the farcaster network, knowing that, despite the inevitable death and chaos that will follow this action, it would cause a cessation of TechnoCore activity. She does  so, and resigns as chief executive.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperion_%28Simmons_novel%29
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fall_of_Hyperion

Modifié par Bill Casey, 08 avril 2013 - 07:06 .

[InvincibleHero]

AlanC9 wrote...

The only issue I have with this interpretation is Shepard riding up on the elevator. If Shepard's unconscious, whose POV is that from? I suppose we can work around it by saying that Shep's semiconscious

That's cinematic approach. Steps out into third person for that scene. We lose control of Shepard in cut-scenes after all.

As for the topic I don't think catalyst took the form Shepard sees it as a ghost of the boy. It is his perception not any mind-reading on the part of an ancient AI.

Modifié par InvincibleHero, 08 avril 2013 - 07:49 .

[Dendio1]

auragon132 wrote...

DWH1982 wrote...

auragon132 wrote...

Obviously by my join date the BSN forums has some sort of thing in place, I guess I became a fan to late to join the conversations, apologies.

And no, i'm not assuming anything or claiming anything.

Look up Indoctrination Theory, if you haven't heard of it.

There was a lot of fighting over the idea, and frankly more than a few bruised feelings. Suggesting that Starbrat might not be real is kind of, sort of veering into IT territory, which gets everyone riled up again.

By orders of the mods, direct discussion of IT is also not supposed to take place in the forums anymore. It's been relegated to groups.

I'm quite well aware of the IT theory I just didn't know BSN didn't like talking about it, again, I was not here when the uproar happened and the speculations went wild and mods began to close topics about it. Honestly, I didn't think my question would raise the IT theory, guess I became a fan too late.

I don't understand why people would be adverse to talking about it. The boards are for discussion, and though I ultimately don't agree with IT, ive seen many a valid argument and some great vids with interesting viewpoints

[Village_Idiot]

I'm of the opinion that the Catalyst is real, but the whole decision chamber isn't necessarily a literal representation of what happens. The consequences (i.e. Control, Destruction, Synthesis and Refusal) are real, but how Shepard initiated them is more up for debate.

I don't believe IT however.