439 réponses à ce sujet

[Auld Wulf]

@Ultrarobo

Why is physical change pointless without mental change? Based upon what? Where is the mental change that you cling to? Where is it exhibited?

[Steelcan]

Auld Wulf wrote...

@Steelcan

And I could say that you're not very bright? That's fun, isn't it?

Have we fallen so far?

. Except I know that I'm exceptionally bright albeit incerdibly lazy.  I'm not convinced you aren't insane 

[Galbrant]

Pre- EC Destroy, The other two choices sounded like Borg talk.

Post- EC.Refuse especially without metagaming it was the only logical response at the time to the catalyst. Everything the Catalyst says contradicts with what my Shepard know and experiences. It also provides no evidence to back up its claims. And his entire reasoning for is current solution is absurd. Not doing anything that requires my death to solved. Sounds like a Reaper plot to kill me and they have every reason to want me dead.

If I had the PC version I would have gotten MEHEM, At least with that we wouldn't have that nonsensical garbage at the end.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Auld Wulf wrote...

@Broganisity

Synthesis doesn't affect minds. It simply provides new avenues of possibility. Also, it's kind of hypocritical to call slavery as an issue when you pick Destroy to kill innocent slaves.

ROTFLMAO

What you seem to be missing is that you're rewriting people and every living creature in the galaxy at the molecular level. This changes them at the most fundamental level. Suddenly the husks become aware. You're telling us that this doesn't affect minds. You're full of steer manure. So tell me... How does this not affect minds?

You're doing this to save about 20,000 "poor innocent murdering genocidal slaves" who have killed probably a quadrillion (1,000,000,000,000,000) organics over the years. And you know what? No where does it say they are free from the control of your dear friend Starboy after the fact. The Intelligence still exists and is part organic now and guess what? It still controls the reapers. I guess that's just in case this solution doesn't work out as planned, and is another one of its failed plans.

[Auld Wulf]

@Steelcan

To your estimations then, I suspect you see Mordin as insane. Apparently any perception outside of your own is insane. That's not a healthy mindset.

[Steelcan]

Also Auld Wolf you have advocated that synthesis is optional, all Destroyers are Luddites, the quarians killed more quarians than the geth did....... The list goes on.

[spirosz]

Auld Wulf wrote...

@spirosz

What, exactly, do you see as being "forced?"

Synthesis, simple as that.  Listen, I'm not arguing about the idea of it, I actually like it - but as of right now and the way it's executed in game and how Bioware portrayed it - it doesn't not vibe well with me because there are only two beings that are making a decision that not only affects the universe physically, but mentally, that for me, shouldn't just happen - it doesn't feel natural to me, especially as I stated that there is no other input on that decision. 

Regardless if it's not traumatic as seen through slides, I just don't see a soldier who was once shooting a husk, end up hugging it, that doesn't work well with me. 

[Steelcan]

Auld Wulf wrote...

@Steelcan

To your estimations then, I suspect you see Mordin as insane. Apparently any perception outside of your own is insane. That's not a healthy mindset.

. No, I've been convinced Mordin isn't insane.  Any perception that I see as insane I just dgs as insane.  I can see a schizophrenic and say he's insane, I don't have to experience his perception to understand that. 

[Taboo]

Auld Wulf wrote...

@Taboo-XX

That's not what I said. I said that they can't have an opinion without having observed a situation. They are only forming incorrect hypothesis. I was talking about Jack and Javik, you are talking about me. Your argument is in error.

You can very much form an opinion without having observed a situation. The human race is particularly good at this. People make judgements all the time without being in an observed situation.

You cannot possibly have formed a consensus on something like Synthesis within five to ten minutes.

This is why Destroy is more popular. It's kind of what people want to do and they've made the decision BEFORE even meeting the Catalyst. I'm not saying it's right, it's the simply the choice people move towards.

A cognitive bias is a terrible thing.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 08 avril 2013 - 11:46 .

[spirosz]

Taboo-XX wrote...
You can very much form an opinion without having observed a situation. 

THANK YOU. 

[Ultrabobo]

Auld Wulf wrote...

@Ultrarobo

Why is physical change pointless without mental change? Based upon what? Where is the mental change that you cling to? Where is it exhibited?

I'll try to make an example: 
During the ending, the soldiers being overrun by husks.
If their bodies change, but not their minds, why should they stop shooting? Same situation, but the husks are blue green rather than blue.
How does that end the war?

Something has to change mentally for them to stop fighting, at least from where i see it.
Mind, i have no interest in being right here, i want to understand.

[Broganisity]

Auld Wulf wrote...

Lots of babble to hide the lack of evidence. Where is the evidence of brainwashing? There is evidence against brainwashing, as I have stated.

Enlighten me again my good man/woman/both/neither/geth:

- What are these options? By all means give me great details.

- How are these options optional? If they are indeed optional what is the point?

- How are these 'options' and understanding not already accomplished by The Shepard's acts? Can't the Krogan reform with the help of Wrex and the cured Genophage? Cannot the Geth and Quarian peace (ignoring the former's destruction with Destroy) be achieved without the aid of the crucible?

- Do you understand other peoples views and reasons or do you see them as simply 'wrong'?

- Do you like waffles?

 I ask out of curiosity, nothing more. You have your view of the matter as I do mine.

Modifié par Broganisity, 08 avril 2013 - 11:53 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Steelcan wrote...

Spirosz, don't get sucked into this. He's insane, you can't win.

In rides Wolfie securing victory through Nuclear Fire insane ramblings.


I like that part it has weight.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Steelcan wrote...

Also Auld Wolf you have advocated that synthesis is optional, all Destroyers are Luddites, the quarians killed more quarians than the geth did....... The list goes on.

My favorite was the whole "anyone who wants to kill the Reapers is a  sociopath" bit or maybe the "Those poor Reapers! They just need hugs!" mentality he's got going on.

Modifié par Grand Admiral Cheesecake, 09 avril 2013 - 12:09 .

[spirosz]

Again, the generalizing. I dislike that, Wulf is acting that he knows my mindset because of his particular mindset towards that decision, doesn't mean the two are related in any sense, which they aren't.

[TheRealJayDee]

DINOSAURUS wrote...

I couldn't pick destroy, as it would render the peace between the Geth and Quarians pointless.

Well, actually all of the endings render the Rannoch peace pointless. By choosing any of the Starchild's three solutions we basically agree that that peace, achieved by our own actions, negotiations and sacrifices, is more or less worthless. In Destroy the Geth perish, in Control we ensure peace in general by establishing a galaxy wide Reaper police state, in Synthesis we change every being (!) to be more equal in order to prevent further conflict. At least in Refuse everyone is annihilated while still believing in the worth of the alliances forged on their own terms.

@Auld Wulf discussion

I have accepted that he will never make a single post regarding the ME3 endings that I can agree with, and pretty much given up hope that he can at least make such posts without personally attacking or offending me. He can't really be a be a totally bad guy, as he likes Shadow of the Colossus, but when it comes to ME3 I'm afraid pretty much all is lost.

Modifié par TheRealJayDee, 09 avril 2013 - 12:22 .

[drayfish]

Auld Wulf wrote...

@spirosz

It's providing them with new options. How is having new options available "changing" a person? We have options in today's society. If you had cancer, would you not want the "option" to cure cancer? It's potentiality, not forced.

Needlessly mutating people against their will because a racist says cooperation is impossible equals 'curing cancer'?

What kind of semantic backflip nonsense is this?

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

drayfish wrote...

Auld Wulf wrote...

@spirosz

It's providing them with new options. How is having new options available "changing" a person? We have options in today's society. If you had cancer, would you not want the "option" to cure cancer? It's potentiality, not forced.

Needlessly mutating people against their will because a racist says cooperation is impossible equals 'curing cancer'?

What kind of semantic backflip nonsense is this?

The best kind. That which you know as Wolfie is your salvation through annoyance.

Modifié par Grand Admiral Cheesecake, 09 avril 2013 - 01:27 .

[Enhanced]

drayfish wrote...

Auld Wulf wrote...

@spirosz

It's providing them with new options. How is having new options available "changing" a person? We have options in today's society. If you had cancer, would you not want the "option" to cure cancer? It's potentiality, not forced.

Needlessly mutating people against their will because a racist says cooperation is impossible equals 'curing cancer'?

What kind of semantic backflip nonsense is this?

Yes, it's so wrong to mentally and physically improve all organics. They probably hate being perfect. *end sarcasm*

Modifié par Enhanced, 09 avril 2013 - 01:31 .

[drayfish]

Enhanced wrote...

drayfish wrote...

Auld Wulf wrote...

@spirosz

It's providing them with new options. How is having new options available "changing" a person? We have options in today's society. If you had cancer, would you not want the "option" to cure cancer? It's potentiality, not forced.

Needlessly mutating people against their will because a racist says cooperation is impossible equals 'curing cancer'?

What kind of semantic backflip nonsense is this?

Yes, it's so wrong to mentally and physically improve all organics. They probably hate being perfect. *end sarcasm*

Installing a USB drive in your brain without your consent because someone thinks you are too ignorant to save yourself from destruction is the same as curing a disease to you?  * no sarcasm necessary at any point *

Modifié par drayfish, 09 avril 2013 - 01:36 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

drayfish wrote...

Enhanced wrote...

drayfish wrote...

Auld Wulf wrote...

@spirosz

It's providing them with new options. How is having new options available "changing" a person? We have options in today's society. If you had cancer, would you not want the "option" to cure cancer? It's potentiality, not forced.

Needlessly mutating people against their will because a racist says cooperation is impossible equals 'curing cancer'?

What kind of semantic backflip nonsense is this?

Yes, it's so wrong to mentally and physically improve all organics. They probably hate being perfect. *end sarcasm*

Installing a USB drive in your brain without your consent because someone thinks you are too ignorant to save yourself from destruction is the same as curing a disease to you?  * no sarcasm necessary at any point *

The organics must be prepared for  ascension. You cannot resist.

[theflyingzamboni]

Synthesis in my first playthrough when I didn't know what was happening. My thoughts were "What the **** is up with the 2001 kid. These choices all sound bad. Why do I always have to die? I guess Synthesis sounds a little more hopeful..."

After the EC and additional thought, my ending of choice is Control.

• Destroy kills off EDI and the Geth. I think this is morally unacceptable. Within the context of the universe and their development, it's no different to me than wiping out the turians or asari.
• I'm a biology major. "Synthetic" programming or nanomachines and DNA combining to form "a new DNA" bothers me on so many intellectual levels. If the Catalyst didn't use that explanation, I might have been able to accept it, but it did. And it makes no sense.

• Control removes the Reaper threat while adding an nigh unstoppable defense force, perhaps against extra-galactic invasion. It's like Destroy with a bonus.
• No genocide.
• With the Reapers as a conflict deterrent, the merging of organic and machine can proceed along natural lines over time, so Synthesis can be achieved eventually (in a more sensible way).

My headcanon is that the new Shepard-Reaper overmind does not continue the cycles. (Why don't people trust this ending? It's your Shepard. It does what you think it does, and the only in-game evidence supports Shepard choosing an alternativee to the cycles.) When he/she uses the Crucible, his/her mind/personality is uploaded and modifies the parameters of the Reapers prime directive, so that they pursue a peaceful solution. 

They help rebuild the damage, as seen in the EC. Building off the current peace with the Geth, they help moderate interaction between organics and AI when necessary, using the Shepard-Catalyst's knowledge of both organic and now synthetic minds. Like some sort of Cthulu-style mediators. They spend most of their time projecting models of possible developments in galactic society á la Psychohistory, and surreptitiously give the occasional nudge at critical points if they have to. Other than that they let history run its course without interference. They aren't mind-dominating ***holes like the Second Foundationers. No dictatorship. No babysitting. Nothing really objectionable at all.

Also, Shepard-Reaper reconstitutes Shepard to maintain connection to organics. Cloning Shepard's body is obviously not an issue, and in my headcanon, the Control mechanism uploads a map of Shepard's mind into the Catalyst's server, or whatever it exists on, so that can be recreated identically too by beings with as much experience in genetics as Reapers. If you think that Organic Shepard can only survive the Destroy ending, you're just not thinking creatively enough.

EDIT: I'd like to mention that if you choose Synthesis and headcanon it as being something like the Ousters in the Hyperion and (especially) Endymion books by Dan Simmons, it suddenly becomes ten kinds of awesome.

Modifié par Led Guardian, 09 avril 2013 - 02:31 .

[drayfish]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

drayfish wrote...

Installing a USB drive in your brain without your consent because someone thinks you are too ignorant to save yourself from destruction is the same as curing a disease to you?  * no sarcasm necessary at any point *

The organics must be prepared for  ascension. You cannot resist.

My Brain/downloads_from_Reaper_hive/subservience.exe

'You are right.  I was a fool to question.  Thank you for rescuing me from my ignorance.'

Modifié par drayfish, 09 avril 2013 - 02:22 .

[Wayning_Star]

I chose the canon ending so I won the game!!

yay

[N7Gold]

I have always chosen this ending ever since March 2012


Ending: Destroy


Reasons for that choice:

• The Reapers have manipulated the evolution of organic life since the first harvest, the galaxy needs to be free from their control, organics and synthetics need to create their own future without Reaper intervention  
  
• Saren, Illusive Man and every other indoctrinated being tried to make us believe that without the support of Reapers in any shape or form, we won't survive, which is NOT true
  
• If there will be another organic vs synthetic conflict, it will be ME finding a solution, NOT the Reapers
  
• I understand that the right choice is not always the easy one

[/list]

Modifié par N7Gold, 09 avril 2013 - 02:36 .