69 réponses à ce sujet

[Cyonan]

I've found the new SAS to be more useful provided I put some wings on my ship(something I hadn't always done before the update). It sounds like the update changed making adjustments with it on, though I'm still used to just disabling the SAS whenever I need to adjust my ship.

The update also seemed to fix a problem I was having with my ships not holding together. For about 2 weeks prior to it ships would just randomly fall apart around 30km, even ships that had successfully gotten into orbit multiple times before.

I'm not sure how high you're taking your ship, but I usually try to get my apoapsis at least to 75-80k while going up as a small buffer so I don't accidentally drag on the atmosphere.

I've managed to get to both Mun and Minmus and back with a Kerbal, so now I'm working on docking.

Or more accurately, I'm working on even being able to get my ship somewhere close to the space station so I can attempt to work on docking with it.

[Landge]

RedArmyShogun wrote...

I do all that. The SAS tends to screw me over in the end however.

Two problem points I hit are at the key point of exiting into space, when you brush the atmosphere at times my rockets will belly over. And when I'm in space and adjust my ship often times it will start to spin. Mostly thanks to the SAS. If I don't use it I seem unable to get dailed in just right. Maybe I just need to play around with it some more.

Sounds to me you're at too shallow of an angle at too low of an altitude. Fine for SSTO's but bad for rockets. You should be punching through the atmosphere not brushing it.

I get spin too when boosters are about to run dry. But that's usually on my bigger builds. Adding more fins, sometimes placing 3 to 4 in a line, usually help so I don't have to use RCS. Once I'm above the atmosphere spinning stops. Probably something causing out of balance issues even though I use symetry.

The exception is my Explorer Craft. It has a 3 seat rover attached radially on the "back" of the Hitchhiker Mudule. It's light enough that it doesn't upset the CoM and is fairly stable as long as ASAS is on while powered up.

The center booster is attached with a Clamp-o-tron Sr. and has a large probe body so you can leave it in orbit. You can re-dock with it if you happen to have any fuel left. The lander can make round trips to Mun or Minmus easy.
If you leave the booster attached and refuel the booster in LKO you can make round trips to Duna, with a stop over on Ike. Fully fueled it can pretty much take you any planet in the Kerbol system. Getting back is another matter. Those weak LV-N's are only good for liftoff on small planets and moons. You can land on Eve really easy but forget about leaving. Tylo is as big as Kerbin without the benefit of any atmosphere to help slow you down. So that's out of the question. Vall or Laythe... maybe. I haven't attempted those yet. It's doubtful.

Aerobraking at Duna:

Ceremonial Planting of the Flag:

Leaving Duna:

To redock with booster and refuel. I've since added 2 more LV-N's for a total of 4. I just barely squeeked by with enough power to lift off Duna using only 2.

Planting Flag on Ike:
Polar landings, in this case Ike's North Pole, always have impressive views. Sorry about the shadows I was going for the view of the sun with Duna in the background.

Returning to Kerbin's SOI:

Atmospheric Re-entry:


Safe Back Home:


Action Keys:
0=Instruments/Solar Panels
1= Toggle Booster Engine
2=Toggle LV-N's
3=N/A
4=N/A
5=Docking Port Cover
6=N/A
7=N/A
8=N/A
9=Toggle Outer Booster Gimbals (press twice before launch)

Notes:
1) Before launch zoom in on Clamp-o-tron Sr and disable crossfeed.

2) Landing on Kerbin or Duna by parachutes alone is not enough. To slow down for a safe landing you will need to fire engines and slow lander's velocity to < 7 m/s. 

Modifié par Landge, 31 juillet 2013 - 01:35 .

[CrazyRah]

I'm quite impressed with what you're able to build. I'm still dreadful and feel quite happy whenver i manage to land on the moon and come home again

[Landge]

There's a TON of trial and error builds I do that you don't see. These are the 1 or 2% that are successful.
Once I have a ship that doesn't explode the instant it's placed on the launch pad. I'll attempt to get into orbit which usually winds up in the ocean east of KSC. If I'm lucky it might make landfall on the nieghboring contenent. Once I get into orbit I'll do further testing and attempt to land on Mun before going on to other planets. Let's me know if I forget something like, oh say, landing legs, ladders, lights, etc.

Modifié par Landge, 31 juillet 2013 - 01:58 .

[Landge]

Here is an example of the steps I take when I'm creating a ship, from concept to completion.

Modifié par Landge, 09 septembre 2013 - 01:19 .

[Landge]

Finally succeeded doing a rocket assisted power landing of my rover mobile base on Duna. Without the benefit of chutes.

Mass Effect Mako style... 

Other than doing a deorbit burn from 150km orbit, I waited until I was at 18,000m, traveling in excess of 900 m/s, before firing the rockets to slow my descent. It's not a suicide burn like was in the game but it's the closest I could do without spontaneously disassembling. A couple out takes follow the landing. 

[bEVEsthda]

I use only the stock program. No mods.

Well, I haven't learnt to dock yet. Nor do I manage to get any usable aerodynamic vehicles into space. They're just too small.

But I've had some successful programs beyond Mun and Minmus. I've made unmanned soft landings on Eve and Laythe. I've made two unmanned, returned and recovered visits to Duna. First with a dedicated, advanced probe I constructed, 'Pegasus'. Then, inspired, I developed a prototype that could eventually evolve into a manned design, the Angel-Zero. This also made the return trip to Duna. Both the unmanned missions came extremely close to disasters. But they revealed problems that had to be solved and I changed the design accordingly. Then I made two manned missions to Duna in my Angel_A spaceship. I changed nothing. It worked perfectly.

 

More recently, since a Duna mission lasts for almost 4 years, I decided to try to double the size of the habitation module, to provide a bit more comfort for my guys. This resulted in the Angel_B. I had to build up fuel in all the stages, of course, to carry the increased weight. So it was a complex modification. Launch from Kermin is now a bit precarious, no longer routine. But the rest is.

A very dependable Duna-rocket.

 

This is a launch of an Angel_B

 

 

[bEVEsthda]

This is the Angel_B stabilizing its Kermin orbit-

 

 

 

 

And this is the Angel_B making its burn for the transition to Duna.

 

[bEVEsthda]

This is the Angel_B, already in a landing trajectory, shedding its last outwardbound fuel tanks, thus revealing the very important combined landing/liftoff engine.

 

 

 

 

And here it is in a landing phase, parachute breaking.

 

[bEVEsthda]

Here it is landed on Duna.

 

 

 

It's a big ship, so it's a long climb down.

 

[Lunch Box1912]

I haven't tried it yet, but I thank it for creating one of my favorite youtube vids of the past two months

*We'll use this standard rocket to get into space here we go...holy ****!* forgets to fire thrusters before releasing locks lol

[bEVEsthda]

*We'll use this standard rocket to get into space here we go...holy ****!* forgets to fire thrusters before releasing locks lol

 

 

That guy seems slightly ignorant of spaceflight basics   . What is he expecting of that last flight? That he will be in orbit? He wasn't even close.

 

But that's the joy of KSP. You discover and learn as you go by.

Playing career mode from the start is probably hopelessly difficult.

My recommendation is to choose 'science sandbox'.

In that mode, you will have to buy additional rocket technology for science points, which you gain by recovering successful missions and collecting different types of science data in different environments. What's good about that, is that not so many components are available from the start. That way you learn better, since there is less confusion. Also you won't have limited funds. That's good, because you need to try a lot.

 

Don't use ready-made ships. They're there for tutorials and you don't know how they work in detail.

Build your own from the start. And take small steps. Don't stretch your ambitions, it won't work. And try to think ahead, what will likely happen?

First try just to build a small, simple rocket. If it's manned, do think "How will the astronaut survive?".

 

Getting a rocket to fly is the first ambition. And nothing counts, if you don't recover the command pod and science modules safely.

Getting the rocket to fly higher is the next ambition.

Getting out into space, the next.

Then comes getting a spacecraft into a stable orbit, a spacecraft that is still able to get down again, mind you. Nothing counts if you don't return and recover.

Then you'll think about doing an encounter with Mun. Then encounter with Minmus. Then into orbit around Mun. Then orbit around Minmus. Then landing on Minmus (easier than landing on Mun). Then landing on Mun. Then you'll do a lot of Mun and Minmus missions, with progressively more advanced ships.

All while the question grows in your mind: How do I get to other planets?

 

Small steps and test a lot. I made something like 28 testflights, in Kermin atmosphere and space, as I developed the Angel. Making sure it would be able to land, take off and land again. Making sure the crew would be able to get down to surface and back aboard again. Even so I missed a couple of problems, which the unmanned missions revealed. As it so then happens, all four of my manned Angel missions to Duna have been flawless, but that's not due to luck or even skill. It's due to meticulous testing and stubborn fixing of problems.

 

 

Take off from Duna for the return flight.

 

 

 

 

Burning for the transition trajectory, back to Kermin.

 

[bEVEsthda]

Back at Kermin, some year later, the violent (or at least very hot) re-entry.

 

 

 

 

Parachute braking. Shedding the last remnants of the space flight components, leaving only the return lander, incorporating both the barrel shaped habitation module (under the command pod) and four science modules.

 

[bEVEsthda]

Safely landed - this landing happened in the Polar region - an astronaut climbs down to the ice, for a first breath of kermin air for a long time.

 

At the bottom, you see a very small flat fuel tank and the exhaust nozzle of the landing engine. These are necessary for a soft landing, since the parachute doesn't slow the weight of the lander enough.

 

 

[bEVEsthda]

I need bigger rocket parts. But even more, I need a bigger launch pad.

 

 

 

 

 

(This is an effort to develop a 3-Kerman, manned, surface to surface, round trip to Laythe -rocket. The challenge is pretty big)

[bEVEsthda]

The reason I named my Laythe rocket "Banshee" is here:

 

 

I realized that the mission would have to rely on 'slingshot'-ing and dramatic atmosphere dipping. Here on the the mighty Jools, gas giant.

 

 

 

 

And here on Laythe itself. These radical navigation methods save like 10,000 m/s fuel (which for this already big rocket would be close to impossible). 

 

 

 

Resulting in all the initial questions being answered: This is 680 tonnes in low orbit around Laythe. With enough surplus fuel to choose landing site. Remains to nail it. The landing. Which won't be easy. Either. 

 

After that, the remaining questions will be addressed: Can it lift and return? All the way back to Kermin? It should. I've designed it and built it to.

[bEVEsthda]

Well, I left it for a good while, but I finally attempted to land my Banshee on Laythe.

It was a very shaky landing, but amazingly it went pretty well. I managed to hit land (Laythe is mostly some liquid), and I managed to land softly, despite the steep gradient. The landing gear needs some work though. I landed on 907m altitude, but the ship slid and crabbed down the slope, almost all the way down to the shore, 100m altitude (which includes the rocket's height). Naturally, the landing gear took a lot of beating in the process, but it held together enough to protect the rocket. I lost two solar panels due to the wild rocking and swinging, but otherwise I think it's intact.

 

 

In landing trajectory, breaking. Already well into the atmosphere in this picture.

 

 

 

 

My Banshee development prototype 8B, landed on a beach on Laythe.

 

 

 

It clearly needs more work before trying a manned mission. Landing gear, of course, and ladders.

But it all depends on the answers of the next questions: Will it have enough fuel to return? Will it be able to climb out of Laythe's atmosphere? Will it be able to go into orbit? Achieve escape velocity from laythe? Achieve escape velocity from Jool? Achieve transfer trajectory home to Kermin? Brake?

Coming that far, I'm pretty sure it can land. That part will be routine.

[bEVEsthda]

Nope!

 

I didn't even get into stable orbit.

That was somewhat of a surprise, since I've tested this lander before on Kermin. There it was able to make it into a stable orbit, and since Laythe is smaller and has a much thinner atmosphere than Kermin, - what's going on?!

 

The main difference is the landing gear. The Kermin test didn't include that. Could the drag be such a great difference?

Or is this game cheating in buggy ways I don't know about?

Well, I have to modify the design and try all of it one more time. This time with a landing gear that can be dropped immediately after liftoff.

[bEVEsthda]

Well, I went back to the drawing board. This is the Banshee development prototype X12 during tests back on Kermin. That is, it's the actual lander, which will also try to return.

As you can see, it has got bigger fuel tanks and more lifting engines. It also has a much redesigned landing gear. The landing gear also shoots off completely at re-launch, to minimize weight and drag penalties.

 

 

 

The lander is huge. The command pod resides high above the ground, so one of the things that need careful tweaking and testing is all the ladders which the Kerbals will use to climb down to the surface, and up again. Here Jebediah is giving it a try.

Funny detail in the background is debris from a separated landing gear from a previous test-landing and re-launch.

 

 

 

And this is how it will look when it lifts off from Laythe. It's able to reach orbit from Kermin. On Laythe it has to do more. It should retain enough fuel to also escape Laythe (corresponding Titan) and escape Jool (corresponding Jupiter), and manage the transition trajectory back to Kermin.

 

 

If it can do that, will be tested during another lengthy, unmanned expedition. As I type this, it's on it's way to Jool.

 

This is the deep space vehicle. You see the lander at the front end.

 

 

The lifting rocket to bring this monster into orbit is an enormous pyramide of of rockets. No less than 33 (!) of the largest rocket engines in the first stage. A development of what could be seen previously in this thread.

[Landge]

@beVEsthda: Noice! Looks like you could pull off a Tylo or Eve landing and return to orbit in that beast.

 

I noticed a change in how much easier it is to get into orbit since Squad fixed the attachment issue. I have been able to reduce the number of boosters required to get into orbit. Then just when you thought you have it all figured out, here it comes.     

 

In less than 1 week (April 27th) the official 1.0 release of KSP.  New character models introducing female character Valentina. New parts, such as procedural farings and wings. New intakes for the revamped atmosphere. Re-entry heat and heat shields. (How much will affect my landers and rovers?) More internal views for IVA. Resources and instruments for discovering them plus drills and equipment for extracting and processing said resources. The ability to clamber over ladders and other obstacles.

 

What I've been working on.

 

 

How much rework will be required? I've been holding off sending anything beyond Kerbin's sphere of influence, content with experimenting and trying out new designs. Once 1.0 is released I'll start a new career to familiarize myself with everything all over again. 

[bEVEsthda]

@beVEsthda: Noice! Looks like you could pull off a Tylo or Eve landing and return to orbit in that beast.

 

I noticed a change in how much easier it is to get into orbit since Squad fixed the attachment issue. I have been able to reduce the number of boosters required to get into orbit. Then just when you thought you have it all figured out, here it comes.     

 

In less than 1 week (April 27th) the official 1.0 release of KSP. 

 

Tylo might be possible with some developments in details. It depends on how much fuel one can retain in the big center tanks of the interplanetary vehicle. Because this is what you will need to brake with during the landing. Banshee uses that only to initiate and aim the landing. It depends on parachutes and Laythe's atmosphere to brake, except for the last cushion before touchdown. That way it's almost full of fuel for the takeoff.

A Tylo vehicle would need less to get back into orbit though, so that save must be taken advantage of.

 

Eve seems hopeless currently. Its atmosphere is so high and thick that it takes colossal resources to get to orbit. And then we have the gravity as well. Landing is easy, but getting up again is a ridiculously difficult problem. I think an atmosphere breathing rocket will be necessary. But those do not work on Eve, from what I've heard?

 

Minmus is the easiest problem. Then the Mun. Then Duna.

After that, there's probably a number of small planets and moons which are easier than Laythe. But Laythe is the interesting one.

 

Both Angel and Banshee are built on a 'train' design and use only nuclear engines in space. Angel has four, Banshee has sixteen. And they drag their tanks behind them.

 

I'm currently depending on non-docking rocket technology. I'm too lazy to learn to dock. That's why my rockets become monsters. The ideal is to have some efficient nuclear engine tug vehicles, transport space habitate (cabin), lander and return tug to the target, then only land the lander. The lander then only needs to get back into orbit. All parts can be much smaller.

 

1.0 is scary. Hope all my stuff will continue to work.

[Landge]

I've made one way trips to Eve and Tylo in early builds of KSP but the past few builds I've been focused more into sending missions with

land based habitats and support craft for long term stays. 

With crewed transport vessels that has crew quarters with an orbital lab.

 

That means no solo missions outside of Kerbin's SOI without backup in the area.

 

For Laythe I redesigned my Laythe Jet Transport vessel with 2 J-Bird SSTO aircraft and a Fuel Depot

that uses KAS attachments for easier refueling on land.

The J-Bird SSTOs are single seat aircraft. Since there will be other craft in the area,

 that can respond in case of emergency,

solo flights around Laythe are permissible.

 

For Tylo I have this beast. A modified "Pride of Kerbin" capable of landing a crew of 3 

along with a rover lander built especially for Tylo.

Once I'm done exploring Tylo the crew of 3 will return to orbit and visit the other moons of Jool, leaving the rover behind.

 

Eight vessels are currently in Kerbin orbit waiting for the Jool transfer window. A total of 9 Kerbalnauts, 3 each in 3 vessels, will make the journey. The 7 other vessels will travel unkerballed. 2 fuel tankers I have yet to launch are to accompany this armada.

 

Juggling this many ships requires sending each ship several days apart. Kerbal Alarm Clock will alert me when each ship arrives at Jool so they can be guided to their destinations.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

The graphic looks like Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion's...

 

Anyway, the devs will be fed and survive for several years... until they release their fiasco!

They'll probably survive with their money for another 150 years!

[Cyonan]

People have all these elaborate spaceships.

 

and I'm just sitting here barely even able to get to the Mun and back.

[bEVEsthda]

I'm afraid I'll have to do my manned Laythe and return -mission soon.

All talk about heat shields in v 1.0, could mean my landers won't survive in entry anymore.

 

<sigh> And everything will have to change.