24 réponses à ce sujet

[Abraham_uk]

Introduction




I'm looking at the classes with either cryo blast or cryo ammo.
Despite the Adept being my favorite class, in this thread I'm afraid the adept will be absent:crying:.


What am I trying to achieve?


Well despite making up one of the three elements, and being responsible for one of the three most useful ammo powers in the game, cryo has been badly under appreciated.

I would like to see people contribute soldier/vanguard/infiltrator builds where cryo ammo is the primary ammo power  No disruptor ammo or incendiary ammo used. Just cryo ammo.

I would like to see people contribute engineer and sentinel builds that make good use of cryo blast.


The purpose of cryo element.

Unlike electric and fire elements, cryo isn't about damage.
It is about crowd control and debuffing armor.

Because cryo element doesn't seem to do any additional damage, it is often regarded as useless.

A good way to think about cryo element is:

A tool that will make armored enemies easier to kill
A tool that will freeze unprotected foes setting them up for headshots or cryo explosions
An element that synergises well with fire (chill foe with ice first to boost the amount of damage fire does)
An element that can slow down protected targets


Are these builds "optimal"?

Cryo builds aren't "optimal", but they are" viable" for both insanity difficulty in single player and even on platinium matches in multiplayer. 

So have some fun and exploit the cryo mechanics just like people exploit tech bursts, incendiary explosions and biotic explosions.


Please Note:

BOTH singleplayer and multiplayer builds are welcome here:wizard:

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 08 avril 2013 - 08:18 .

[Abraham_uk]

With these cryo builds, I'm thinking of Commander Shepard as being the cryo specialist. So no other ammo powers are to be used..

For cryo ammo focused builds I highly recommend any fully automatic weapon. These can be some of assault rifles, sub machine guns (that aren't burst fire) or some of the shotguns, sniper rifles and pistols.

Revenant, Harrier, Geth Plasma SMG, Tempest, Pheston, Geth Pulse Rifle, Hurricane, Reegar Carbine, Lancer and Prothean Particle Rifle are all good choices (they're not the only good choices).

Cryo Soldier:

Adrenaline Rush: Diliation And Damage, Duration, Power Use
Cryo Ammo: Squad, Headshots, Damage Combo
Concussive Shot:  Radius, Shatter, Amplification
Frag Grenade: Damage, Max Grenades, Armor Piercing
Combat Mastery: Damage, Headshots, Weapons Master

Disruptor Ammo: No points
Incendiary Ammo: No points
Fitness: up to you.

Energy Drain: (How you spec this one is up to you. Try to rely on your squadmates for shield stripping. This bonus power is still useful since you can't get the most of cryo ammo if enemies have shields/barriers).

Squadmate recommendations: Bring EDI for her incinerate and spec it for the freeze combo.
Garrus, EDI, Kaidan and Tali are great for removing shields and barriers with overload/energy drain.
________________________________________________________________________________________

Cryo Infiltrator:

Here is how this one works: Cast sabotage (with tech vulnerability), then shoot with cryo ammo and then finish off foe with incinerate (with freeze combo)

Weapon suggestion: Any fully automatic rapid fire weapon

Tactical Cloak: Damage, Recharge, Bonus Power
Sabotage: Back Fire, Recharge, Tech Vulnerability
Incinerate: Damage, Burning Damage, Freeze Combo
Sticky Grenade: (Sticky grenades take into account active ammo power) Radius, armor piercing, damage
Cryo Ammo: Squad Ammo, Headshots, Damage Combo
Disruptor Ammo: No points
Fitness: Up to you.
Operational Mastery: Weapon Damage, Weight Capacity, Power Damage and Duration

Energy Drain: (How you spec this one is up to you. Try to rely on your squadmates for shield stripping. This bonus power is still useful since you can't get the most of cryo ammo if enemies have shields/barriers).

Squadmate recommendations: Bring EDI for her incinerate and spec it for the freeze combo.
Garrus, EDI, Kaidan and Tali are great for removing shields and barriers with overload/energy drain.

________________________________________________________________________________________

Cryo Vanguard:

Recommended Weapons: Any fully automatic gun so that you can spray the cryo effects before charging.

Biotic Charge: Force And Damage, Weapon Synergy, Third Evolution Is Up To You
Cryo Ammo: Squad Ammo, Headshots, Damage Combo
Fortification: As long as you spec for power damage, the rest is up to you. Power damage affects ammo powers.
Fitness: Up to you.


Pull, Shockwave and Nova: Up to you
Incendiary Ammo: No points
Assault Mastery: Damage, Weight Capacity, Third Evolution Is Up To You

Squadmate recommendations: Bring EDI for her incinerate and spec it for the freeze combo.
Garrus, EDI, Kaidan and Tali are great for removing shields and barriers with overload/energy drain.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 11 avril 2013 - 03:15 .

[Abraham_uk]

Cryo Engineer:

Strategy: Sabotage, then Cryo Blast then Incinerate (in this specific order). Use squadmates for overload/energy drain, but have your own handy just incase your squadmates fall in battle.


Weapon Suggestions: As long as your weapon is light it doesn't matter. You're almost exclusively killing foes with your powers. Though there are some very good light weapons out there that won't greatly increase your cooldowns.

Borrow Ammo Powers?: I don't want any elemental ammo powers to interfere with the cryo explosions. I'd borrow Liara's Warp Ammo or Garrus' Armor Piercing ammo. So no borrowing James' incendiary ammo or Ashley's disruptor ammo.

The Build:

Combat Drone: Optional. WARNING: Can interfere with your cryo explosions.
Sentry Turret: Shields Damage, Cryo Ammo, (Leave rank 6 blank due to interference with cryo explosions)
Cryo Blast: Radius, Cryo Explosion, Frozen Vulnerability
Incinerate: Radius, Burning Damage, Freeze Combo
Sabotage: Backfire, Recharge Speed, Tech Vulnerability
Overload: Up to you. Do you prefer area or focused shield damage or a mixture of both?
Fitness: Up to you.
Tech Mastery: Power Damage, Damage & Capacity, Power Mastery

Fortification: Power Synergy and Power Recharge (Rank 4 is up to you)
_________________________________________________________________________________________

Cryo Sentinel

Strategy: Activate tech armor and fortification. Keep both powers active. No cast cryo blast on target then follow up with warp.

Weapon Suggestions: Since you have both tech armor and fortification active at the same time, you need to keep your loadout as light as possible to exploit cryo combos.

Cryo Detonation Advice: Detonating biotic powers (other than warp) are not recommended in your squad as these will mess up your cryo combos.

Squadmate advice: EDI isn't a bad choice. She has overload and she has incinerate (which is great if you choose freeze combo evolution). EDI, Garrus, Kaidan and Tali are great for removing shields/barriers.

Borrow Ammo Powers?: I don't want any elemental ammo powers to interfere with the cryo explosions. I'd borrow Liara's Warp Ammo or Garrus' Armor Piercing ammo. So no borrowing James' incendiary ammo or Ashley's disruptor ammo.


The Build:

Tech Armor: Power Damage and Power Recharge (Rank 4 is up to you)
Fortification: Power Synergy and Power Recharge (Rank 4 is up to you)
Overload: Up to you. Do you prefer area or focused shield damage or a mixture of both?
Cryo Blast: Radius, Cryo Explosion, Frozen Vulnerability
Warp: Detonate, Expose, Pierce
Throw and Lift Grenade: Up to you. Could mess up your cryo combos though.
Fitness: Up to you
Offensive Mastery: Force And Damage, Weight Capacity, Force and Damage

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 08 avril 2013 - 08:13 .

[capn233]

I don't understand why you would restrict "Squad Cryo Ammo." That makes it a lot more useful, IMO.

With the import of easy Cryo Explosions in SP after Patch 1.04 at the end of last year, Cryo is a lot more fun to use. Get some squaddies with rapid CD detonator powers and set off the CE's. This works fairly decently since SP has a fair amount of low level unprotected targets.

Cryo Blast on the Sentinel has been pretty fun for me as of late.

[Abraham_uk]

capn233 wrote...

I don't understand why you would restrict "Squad Cryo Ammo." That makes it a lot more useful, IMO.

With the import of easy Cryo Explosions in SP after Patch 1.04 at the end of last year, Cryo is a lot more fun to use. Get some squaddies with rapid CD detonator powers and set off the CE's. This works fairly decently since SP has a fair amount of low level unprotected targets.

Cryo Blast on the Sentinel has been pretty fun for me as of late.

Hmm. (Can't find thining emoticon):happy: Interesting.

I just wanted to do something different.
Okay. I'll change my builds. Full cryo squad.

[Abraham_uk]

All 5 classes are done.

Feel free to contribute singleplayer and multiplayer cryo builds here.


I shall be contributing my own multiplayer cryo builds soon.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 08 avril 2013 - 08:16 .

[sirus1988]

On sentinel, throw detonates cryo blast, and it has a faster recharge speed than warp. I love the cryo blast power. And nice thread btw.

EDIT: Not sure if you need to choose the detonate evo on throw for it to work or not. That evo might only work for biotic explosions. Still, I have had no trouble with cryo + throw combo.

Modifié par sirus1988, 08 avril 2013 - 08:36 .

[ronneroo]

I'm currently replaying ME3 as a Sentinel. I've been messing around a bit with builds, weapons and bonus powers, but I feel most comfortable atm with Cryo Blast on my triangle (PS3 user) hotkey.

I've been using EDI a lot (although not on Sur'Kesh for dialogue reasons), and doing Cryo Blast > EDI's Incinerate > my or Liara's Warp > Throw = nearly dead Brute. I really like it. Obviously EDI's Incinerate is specced for Freeze Combo.

I've also been enjoying Cryo Blast > Throw on Cannibals and Assault Troopers; with the new Fire/Cryo explosion mechanic, by the time my cooldown from Cryo Blast is done (this is with Tech Armor and Fortification as bonus power both active and 155% recharge from weapons), I toss a Throw and the enemy is frozen enough to explode. This is powerful enough to kill the target and 8 out of 10 times there's an enemy close by enough to get caught in the blast and freezes. It seems more useful than Throw spam because, while faster, you need 3-4 Throws to kill an enemy (at least at the moment, I turned level 47 after Tuchanka, which is where I am at now.) The difference in time is probably minimal, but it's a bit more pleasing to me to see a big ice explosion.

EDI is quite obviously the best squadmate purely for Cryo Blast, because of Incinerate, but as a Sentinel you can bring anyone really. Liara/Kaidan/Javik for Biotic Explosions. Ashley for mad fire explosions. Garrus and Tali for Tech Bursts. Several squadmates can also detonate your Cryo Explosions and Tech Bursts.

But for Cryo Blast specifically, EDI is your best (read: most damaging) friend. With the recharge evolution and a recharge outfit, her cooldown isn't too bad either. In second place are probably James and Ashley (with Ashley edging out James); his Carnage and her Concussive Shot can detonate, or I can follow Carnage/Inferno Grenades up with Warp to detonate a Fire Explosion.. and then Throw for a Biotic Explosion. Liara is another option (especially as I don't like bringing James), as her Warp specced with Detonate, combined with the Cryo Blast debuff, will create the most powerful Biotic Explosions at a faster speed than if I were to do it solo. I'm not sure if the debuffs stack, but if they do, Garrus makes a nice third squadmate for the Cryo and Proximity debuff combined.

I'm not sure what the best bonus power is for a Cryo Blast build. Carnage's timeframe to combo with is probably too short to make it a worthwhile bonus power if you want to be able to solo a Fire Explosion into a Biotic Explosion, so Inferno Grenades is the only, and a much better at that, option for that.
I personally use Fortification for the power damage and damage reduction, but it doesn't enhance Cryo Blast itself.

Modifié par ronneroo, 08 avril 2013 - 08:44 .

[capn233]

Throw (double) and Overload (w/ chain) are both good detonators because both can detonate multiple CE's per cast.

As I alluded to above, Ash and Garrus both have ultra rapid detonators in Concussive Shot. With Squad Cryo Ammo, you can go Amplified on their last evolution and also prime.

[known_hero]

Lol, that Mr Freeze pic makes me want to play Arkham City.

Nice thread!

[Abraham_uk]

known_hero wrote...

Lol, that Mr Freeze pic makes me want to play Arkham City.

Nice thread!

"What killed the Dinosaurs? The Ice Age!"

[Abraham_uk]

Thanks for the advice on Sentinel.

I chose warp over throw because of further armor debuffs that synergise well with cryo blast.
Though throw is an exceptionally good choice to detonate cryo explosions.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 09 avril 2013 - 04:42 .

[brad2240]

Abraham_uk wrote...

[/b]Cryo Soldier:

Adrenaline Rush: Diliation And Damage, Duration, Power Use
Cryo Ammo: Squad, Headshots, Damage Combo
Concussive Shot:  Radius, Shatter, Amplification
Frag Grenade: Damage, Max Grenades, Armor Piercing
Combat Mastery: Damage, Headshots, Weapons Master

Disruptor Ammo: No points
Incendiary Ammo: No points
Fitness: up to you.

Fortification: As long as you spec for power damage, the rest is up to you. Power damage affects ammo powers.

Squadmate recommendations: Bring EDI for her incinerate and spec it for the freeze combo.
Garrus, EDI, Kaidan and Tali are great for removing shields and barriers with overload/energy drain.
________________________________________________________________________________________

Cryo Infiltrator:

Here is how this one works: Cast sabotage (with tech vulnerability), then shoot with cryo ammo and then finish off foe with incinerate (with freeze combo)

Weapon suggestion: Any fully automatic rapid fire weapon

Tactical Cloak: Damage, Recharge, Bonus Power
Sabotage: Back Fire, Recharge, Tech Vulnerability
Incinerate: Damage, Burning Damage, Freeze Combo
Sticky Grenade: (Sticky grenades take into account active ammo power) Radius, armor piercing, damage
Cryo Ammo: Squad Ammo, Headshots, Damage Combo
Disruptor Ammo: No points
Fortification: As long as you spec for power damage, the rest is up to you. Power damage affects ammo powers.
Fitness: Up to you.
Operational Mastery: Weapon Damage, Weight Capacity, Power Damage and Duration

Squadmate recommendations: Bring EDI for her incinerate and spec it for the freeze combo.
Garrus, EDI, Kaidan and Tali are great for removing shields and barriers with overload/energy drain.

With both builds I would not take Fortification. You mention the bonus to ammo power damage but Cryo ammo does no damage...

Instead I would take Energy Drain. It synergizes well with the builds by getting rid of shields so Cryo can actually freeze things. Also makes up for the loss of defense from not taking Fort.

My preferred choices for squadmates would be Ashley and Garrus, both with Conc Shot specced for Shatter and Amplification for an ungodly amount of Cryo Explosions. Plus Garrus takes care of shields, debuffs enemies with Proxy Mine to make up for using a less damaging ammo type, and Ashley provides some anti-armor DoT with Inferno Grenades. All defenses are covered, weapon damage is high, CC is high, this team will steamroll the game.  

As for multiplayer builds, my favorite for using Cryo is a Female Quarian Engineer. I spec her:

Turret: Nothing
Incinerate: 6 - Damage/Burning/Freeze Combo
Cryo: 6 - Radius/Cryo Explosion/Weaken Armor
Passive: 6 - Power/Power/Weapon
Fitness: 6 - All Health & Shields

I spam Cryo like it's going out of style. Everything gets frozen. I travel light, usually with a Hurricane and a Scorpion with ULM as a sidearm.

[Abraham_uk]

Hmm. Sounds interesting.

Energy Drain is a very good bonus power.

I'll bring Brad's recomendations into the equation.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 11 avril 2013 - 03:10 .

[Abraham_uk]

I have a few multiplayer builds to add (since this thread proposed multiplayer builds).

Single player is more my area of comfort which is why Jumpin Production builds will be used.
Brad has already posted a good build for the Female Quarian Engineer. Check above.


Here are two more builds.
________________________________________________________________________________________

N7 Paladin.

Energy Drain:  3 ranks.
Incinerate:  Damage, Burning Damage and Freeze Combo
Snap Freeze: Reach, Cryo Explosion and Tech Combo
Shield Mastery: Durability, Shield Recharge and Cryo Shield
Alliance Training: Damage & Capacity and Power Damage (5 ranks)

Weapon of choice: Scorpion Pistol
________________________________________________________________________________________

Alliance Infiltration Unit

Tactical Cloak: Damage, Recharge Speed, Shotgun Damage
Snap Freeze: Reach, Cryo Explosion and Damage & Weakness
Repair Matrix:  Survivability, Duration and Enhance Repair Matrix
Fitness Module: Nothing
Unschakled AI: Weapon's Damage, Headshots, Weapon Damage

Weapon of choice: Claymore

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 11 avril 2013 - 03:34 .

[brad2240]

I'll have to try out that Paladin build. I was playing it as a 6/6/6/4/4 build with an emphasis on casting. That one looks more melee-oriented.

I'm having trouble coming up with a good build for the Human Infiltrator in MP. It seems everything he can do can be done better by another Infiltrator, especially now that the AIU is the queen of the freeze/shotgun playstyle. Can anyone help?

Modifié par brad2240, 11 avril 2013 - 05:05 .

[Abraham_uk]

Hmm.

I can't believe I missed that one out.

I personally skip the grenades (never liked the sticky grenades anyway) and max everything else out.


Anyway, I'm no expert. I'll leave this one to Jumpin.

Check out this link 

________________________________________________________________________________________

Pure Power Build (This is Jumpin's build. I don't like sticky grenades very much, so mine will vary)

A little tip for anyone ditching fitness, only do so if you're really, really good at the game.
With no points in fitness you will be taken down very easily.

Tactical Cloak: Damage, Recharge Speed, Bonus Power[/b]
Cryo Blast: Radius, Cryo Explosion, Frozen Vulnerability,
Sticky Grenades: Damage, Armor Piercing, Proximity Trap
Fitness: Nothing
Alliance Training: Damage & Capacity, Power Damage, Weapons Damage

Weapon of Choice: Claymore Shotgun or Crusader Shotgun

________________________________________________________________________________________

My Preferred Build: (I'm prepared for a mountain of abuse)


I don't like sticky grenades. They're my least favorite grenades. Also I like to be durable. I almost always max out fitness.

Tactical Cloak:  Damage, Recharge Speed, Weapon Damage
Cryo Blast: Damage, Cryo Explosion, Frozen Vulnarability
Sticky Grenades: Nothing
Fitness: Health and Shields, Shield Recharge, Health and Shields
Alliance Training: Weapon Damage, Headshot Damage, Weapons Damage

My build focuses more on weapon damage.

[b]Weapon of Choice: I haven't really decided. I'll probably try playing a shotgun infiltrator. I don't play human infiltrator very often.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 11 avril 2013 - 06:56 .

[Abraham_uk]

brad2240 wrote...

I'll have to try out that Paladin build. I was playing it as a 6/6/6/4/4 build with an emphasis on casting. That one looks more melee-oriented.

I'm having trouble coming up with a good build for the Human Infiltrator in MP. It seems everything he can do can be done better by another Infiltrator, especially now that the AIU is the queen of the freeze/shotgun playstyle. Can anyone help?

There is very little incentive to play the original human infiltrator.
Not only is it outperformed by other infiltrators, but it doesn't even contribute towards any of the challenges and banners (assuming that you still care about banners and challenges).

CORRECTION FROM BRAD: Well cryo blast does contribute towards tech mastery. This is a power that the original human infiltrator has.



That said, this kit isn't terrible.
Cryo blast gives you a mid-long range option for freezing enemies.
You don't have to get up close and personal to freeze your foes.

If you find snap freeze too risky and want a safer option, cryo blast is an adequate power that fills the role quite nicely. In addition, unlike the Alliance Infiltration Unit you can detonate cryo explosions with sticky grenades.

Also this class is there right from the beginning. So no need to spend lots of credits on reserves packs.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 11 avril 2013 - 08:08 .

[brad2240]

Abraham_uk wrote...

There is very little incentive to play the original human infiltrator.
Not only is it outperformed by other infiltrators, but it doesn't even contribute towards any of the challenges and banners (assuming that you still care about banners and challenges).

Interesttingly enough, the HI is what I used to complete the Tech Mastery challenge the first time. It was the only kit I had at the time with Cryo Blast.

Haven't used it seriously since then, though. For that I used a 4/6/6/6/4 build with a Pirahna. I'm thinking I might try something similar again:

Cloak: 4 - Damage
Cryo: 6 - Radius/Explosion/Vulnerabilty
Sticky: 6 - Damage/AP/Proxy Trap
Training:6 - Weapon/Headsot/Weapon
Fitness: 4 - Durability

I would go with a Hurricane/Scorpion combo, that's one I've really grown to like on other classes. Alternately I might try the Harrier, though it would clearly lag behind the Ghost.

I haven't tried out Proxy Trap before, but I've read on the board here that it makes Stickies easier to use.

I don't feel that this guy's powers really mesh well with sniping, considering Cryo's travel time and frequency of being dodged. Likewise, Stickes are hard enough to aim at close range, much less long.

[Abraham_uk]

Thanks for the correction.

Cryo blast is a tech power. All offensive tech powers count towards tech mastery.


I don't use the original human infiltrator very often.
You are right about cryo blast. It is an "arc" power. Like all arc powers, enemies have a tendancy to dodge them.

Modifié par Abraham_uk, 11 avril 2013 - 08:10 .

[themageguy]

My paladin has 3 incinerate and full energy drain. Snap freeze + energy drain = icy explosion nemesis. Haha. Does a great job on those banshees and phantoms. Geth are a joke haha

Modifié par themageguy, 14 avril 2013 - 11:17 .

[godlike13]

Snap freeze + incinerate = icy explosion too. Great for everything thats not synthetic or shield/barrier.

[Abraham_uk]

Paladin is my joint favorite sentinel and joint favorite kit overall.

My other favorite is the vorcha (flamer being the reason).


Paladin is everything a cryo kit should be! Showing of the ice element at it's full potential.
Man, this thread makes me want to replay Dragon Age Origins as a ice themed arcane warrior, that spams cone of cold..

[sirus1988]

brad2240 wrote...

Abraham_uk wrote...

There is very little incentive to play the original human infiltrator.
Not only is it outperformed by other infiltrators, but it doesn't even contribute towards any of the challenges and banners (assuming that you still care about banners and challenges).

Interesttingly enough, the HI is what I used to complete the Tech Mastery challenge the first time. It was the only kit I had at the time with Cryo Blast.

Haven't used it seriously since then, though. For that I used a 4/6/6/6/4 build with a Pirahna. I'm thinking I might try something similar again:

Cloak: 4 - Damage
Cryo: 6 - Radius/Explosion/Vulnerabilty
Sticky: 6 - Damage/AP/Proxy Trap
Training:6 - Weapon/Headsot/Weapon
Fitness: 4 - Durability

I would go with a Hurricane/Scorpion combo, that's one I've really grown to like on other classes. Alternately I might try the Harrier, though it would clearly lag behind the Ghost.

I haven't tried out Proxy Trap before, but I've read on the board here that it makes Stickies easier to use.

I don't feel that this guy's powers really mesh well with sniping, considering Cryo's travel time and frequency of being dodged. Likewise, Stickes are hard enough to aim at close range, much less long.

I found a great love for the human infiltrator ever since the reager carbine came into fruition. My build is preaty much like yours except I chose duration on cloak instead of damage for her, since I wanted her to fit more into support and objective hacking. but otherwise, cryo -> cloak -> reager all the things!

EDIT: Abraham, you play on the PS3 right? If you do, we should play sometime. PSN: wub0_0wub

EDIT 2: Hmm.. I think I'll add my version of the Female Quarian Engineer since I believe the turret can be very viable and has an interesting freeze power (cryo ammo):

Female Quarian Engineer (cryo explosion build): 6/6/6/4/4
Sentry Turret: Shock -> Cryo Ammo -> Flamethrower
Incinerate: Radius -> Burning Damage -> Freeze Combo
Cryo Blast: Radius -> Cryo Explosion -> Frozen Vulnerability
Quarian Defender: Damage and Capacity
Fitness: Durability

I would reccomend light weight weapons for this build to decrease recharge speeds as much as possible. I usually role with a phaeston, but you can easily use a harrier if you have one almost or completely maximized. Note that the cryo ammo power on sentry turret does not detonate cryo explosions but it's a good power to slow targets down.

Modifié par sirus1988, 15 avril 2013 - 07:01 .

[Abraham_uk]

I am a PS3 player.

I like your build.

I would like to be in a team that exploits sabotage's tech vulnerability.
Tech based elementals like incendiary/cryo/disruptor are made much better.

I wouldn't mind being the guy to spam the sabotage just for the combos.