274 réponses à ce sujet

[Gkonone]

robertthebard wrote...

Gkonone wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Gkonone wrote...

The way I see it, following your house analogy, why build a new house when you have a perfectly fine house to continue with? I see ME4 as a new house, maybe we differ on that.
What Shepard is gonna do next is as good a question as asking what the new protagonist is gonna do really.
Is he or she gonna fight some evil new thing, well that thing isn't the Reapers, and if it is, might as well be Shepard then.
Whatever new antagonist BW comes up with will either be worse than the Reapers, perhaps a prequel, or it will be even a bigger threat. If the latter is the case, I don't see why they shouldn't continue with Shepard.
If it's not a big a threat as the Reapers I wonder if it's interesting at all. But that's a matter of opinion I guess.

I can understand your being fine with the ending as it is, I wouldn't mind a retcon really. To get Shepard back.

Because this house is done.  I have a family, and we have outgrown it, and need a new one?  If I got married tomorrow, I'd have to move, because if she has any kids, this house is too small.  To me it just seems a shame to have such a fully realized universe, and it only has one person of note in it.  At least, one person of note that's worth building a game around.  I have no idea what BioWare can, or might do in it, but what I do know is that, over the years, BioWare has managed to keep me quite engaged in their games, and I didn't need to stick with Baldur's Gate, or NWN's, or Origins.  Granted that the attraction that kept me playing 5 years of NWN's was the toolset and online modules.  I have no doubt they can find a way to engage me in this universe again, unless they do it in an MMO.  I have enough of those to play right now.

What's wrong with building a series around a person of note though? Happens quite a bit in other games and movies/series.
And it's not just Shepard, it's also the crew, the relationships you've build up over the course of three games and possibly more.
It's not as if you can't expand the universe more with that character in it. 

I wonder though, what is the magic number here really? Shoud all stories be told in trilogies? What do you think, can't stories be more than 3 chapters?

And what will that new protagonist be facing that will be on par with what Shepard had to deal with?
Or maybe you're just tired of Shepard or want a new protagonist, that's fine though.

I have saves running in all three games right now.  So I'm not tired of Shepard.  However, since this arc was Shepard's arc, and it's completed, I am not averse to new stuff.  I am averse to messing up my canon, or somebody else's canon, for the sake of more Shepard.  If they had rolled the credits at the beam in London I would have been ecstatic with how the game ended up.  I sincerely believe that would have been epic.

I have no idea what they can/will do next.  Shepard is going to be a hard act to follow, but as I said, they have managed to engage me in the past, and barring an MMO, they can engage me again, unless they go more shooter than RPG.  I don't do MP because I suck at twitch gaming, so a pure shooter wouldn't be that appealing to me.

I really wonder though, would you feel the same if the ending was open and have Shepard survive and be reunited with his or her crew.
Be honest here.

[robertthebard]

Gkonone wrote...

I really wonder though, would you feel the same if the ending was open and have Shepard survive and be reunited with his or her crew.
Be honest here.

Yes.  Nothing in the galaxy would make for a compelling enough story after defeating the Reapers.  It would be time to hang up the weapons, and go hang out on that beach with Garrus, and get that house, with the 2.5 kids with Traynor, so long as it's by the beach, so I don't have to do any more running and jumping to get there.  Still not sure how she intended to do that, all things considered, but it's her dream, and my Shepard wants to share it with her.  I'd say that, after saving the galaxy twice, and humanity three times, it's time to rest on my laurels and let somebody else get shot at for a while.

[Nightwriter]

chemiclord wrote...

mtmercydave09 wrote...

chemiclord wrote...

Can't yank something out of your hands that was never IN your hands to begin with, man.

In the literal sense, of course it was never in our hands since Bioware owns it.

However, in the figurative and RPG sense, it was in our hands since we felt like we were Shepard.  After all, what's the point in making any RPG at all if there is no sense of feeling like the story is in your hands seeing as how we are roleplaying as the main character?

That's the point.

Even in the figurative sense, "our Shepard" falls flat.  You didn't "roleplay" anything.  You read from a script.  Every choice you thought you made had been written and composed by someone else without ANY consulation from you.  The game didn't care about your headcanon; it impacted less than jack **** on the game, and that was true in ME1, ME2, and ME3.

100% them, 0% you, both legally and figuratively.  The sooner fans accept that truth, the easier it will be to let go and move on.

Damn son. That's like five kinds of messed up.

I mean first of all the very creators of the franchise have point blank said that the player collaborates in the process. Not only have they hyped the "create your own experience" element to hell and gone, they have literally said the fans "are writing the story as much as the writers at this point," (paraphrased).

But forget that even. Forget that everything from advertisement to dev input contradicts you. Look at the RPG experience itself.

When the lickle children go into Build A Bear Workshop, they can only use what teddy bear components are in the store. Their options are not limitless and they cannot ask for just anything their imagination can conceive of.

This does not change the fact that they walk out of the store with their own unique teddy bear, and any assertion that the bear is 100% the workshop's and 0% the kid's is ridiculous because it was the kid that put the bear together and that unique bear would not exist but for the child's participation.

Now imagine that we take away all the best teddy bear components in the shop, all the ones the children loved best. We fill the store instead with only accessories that make poor teddy look like a corpse. X's over the eyes, shirts that mimic gunshot wounds and knife wounds, fur that imitates rot and decay. A variety of accents that all say "dead."

Oh, the poor lickle children, they are so sad. They run around asking what happened to all the old teddy bear accessories that they loved so well, and saying how unhappy they are that they are now only able to create different flavors of corpse, and what happened to their teddy that they could create here before? His parts aren't here anymore, they've lost him.

While, yes, their options were always limited, always handed to them by the workshop, they are no longer being offered the ingredients necessary to create a satisfactory teddy bear experience. Of course they feel deprived. Is it their fault they bonded to the old bears? Naturally not, poor things. We all bond to what we are given the power to personalize and customize. The shop knows that, and that is why it markets itself as a build-YOUR-own-teddy store... and why devs like BioWare market their games as "personal experiences" that give you the ability to "shape YOUR own story."

Now obviously, Build A Bear Workshop offers way more options to children than games can offer to players. As gamers we shouldn't expect as much sheer freedom. But the important part here is that many fans feel they were given the power to assemble a reasonably satisfying experience before, and that power was taken away, just as it was from the children in the example. Each new game released in the ME series is like a return to the Bear Workshop for players -- with every installment, we're offered options and choices which we use to recreate our Shepard, and we hope that the options we're given allow us to stay true to the same Shepard each time. This is especially important in import trilogies. When that doesn't happen...

Well I don't mean to say I am a child petulantly screaming "WHERE IS MY TEDDY?!" ...

... But seriously where the f*ck is my teddy.

[Xilizhra]

... But seriously where the f*ck is my teddy.

You know... I've given a means to return from Control, and Ieldra's given a means to return from Synthesis. If headcanon is your love here, your teddy can be brought back by space magic, just as space magic taketh away. It's not like resurrection is without precedent anyway.

[Nightwriter]

More is wrong with the ending than Shepard's death I'm afraid. The corpse teddy elements are just meant to represent undesirableness in general, of which Shepard's untimely demise is just one factor.

Edit: Also headcanoning away canon has never been my strong suit.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 13 avril 2013 - 04:58 .

[Xilizhra]

Nightwriter wrote...

More is wrong with the ending than Shepard's death I'm afraid. The corpse teddy elements are just meant to represent undesirableness in general, of which Shepard's untimely demise is just one factor.

What are your other issues, aside from (I predict) being unable to sufficiently debate the Catalyst?

[PwrdOff]

Bioware should have either continued the series with Shepard, or just ended it altogether. No matter how well crafted the new protagonist for ME4 is, he or she will constantly be bogged down by comparisons to Shepard. Make the new hero too similar, and fans will be unhappy because s/he'll just be a watered down Shepard. Make him/her too different, and people will want Shepard back and not this annoying newcomer. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see both reactions at the same time. The same goes for the new squadmates and crew that you'll pick up, since they'll have to draw from the same archetypes as the old squaddies did, and their personalities will just be permutations of the same selection of traits.

[Nightwriter]

Xilizhra wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

More is wrong with the ending than Shepard's death I'm afraid. The corpse teddy elements are just meant to represent undesirableness in general, of which Shepard's untimely demise is just one factor.

What are your other issues, aside from (I predict) being unable to sufficiently debate the Catalyst?

Eh, bit of an essay question. I'd answer, but I suspect it would be getting into some pretty heavy wall-of-text stuff that will probably carry this from "letting go of Shepard" territory into "what was wrong with the ending" territory, and it's kind of all been said before.

So, regardless of whether one agrees or disagrees with how I felt about the ending, I was simply trying to say that it's not wrong to feel a sense of limited ownership over a customizable PC. They're there to give you that feeling.

[chemiclord]

Nightwriter wrote...

*snip*

Well I don't mean to say I am a child petulantly screaming "WHERE IS MY TEDDY?!" ...

... But seriously where the f*ck is my teddy.

Well, I mean other than the fact that Mass Effect is nothing like Build-A-Bear in like... ANY WAY... yeah, you're exactly correct.

The "the fans are yadda yadda" was what was called "PR Bull****"; just like how Bank of America said they were "your bank", or Microsoft claimed Windows 7 was "my idea."  Somehow I doubt you tried to walk into a Bank of America vault or demand Microsoft pay you royalties... because you knew better.  You knew it was PR Bull**** just like you should have known THIS was PR Bull****.  That you chose to actually BUY the bull**** this time is YOUR problem.

A Build-A-Bear employee is there to make sure you get what you're looking for.  You can customize the experience because there is genuine interaction.  It is in effect a commissioned piece.  

Now imagine in Build-A-Bear wasn't a personalized experience, but instead was in the business of building one bear that they had to sell to five million people.  And now, you get to work with those other millions to decide what that bear is going to look like.  Have fun coming to a conclusion that's going to completely satisfy even a simple majority.  Good luck... seriously, because you're going to need it.

THAT is closer to what Mass Effect would represent, though even that isn't wholly accurate.

The Mass Effect games do not give one-tenth of one **** about your headcanon.  You mistake the games not outright stomping on your experience until the very end for catering to your experience.  Your emotional investment is blinding you to simple logic.  This was NOT a commissioned piece.  This was NOT a Build-A-Bear.  Continuing to pretend it was is simple silliness.

So no teddy for you, kid, nor do you deserve one.

Modifié par chemiclord, 13 avril 2013 - 06:13 .

[Iakus]

Nightwriter wrote...

Well I don't mean to say I am a child petulantly screaming "WHERE IS MY TEDDY?!" ...

... But seriously where the f*ck is my teddy.

Indeed.  Where is Nightwriter's teddy?

Where's my teddy too for that matter?

The teddy I got doesn't look like a friendly stuffed bear.  It looks like some fierce beast that mauled a camper and had to be put down.

You can't possibly tell me those were the only parts avaiable...

[chemiclord]

iakus wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Well I don't mean to say I am a child petulantly screaming "WHERE IS MY TEDDY?!" ...

... But seriously where the f*ck is my teddy.

Indeed.  Where is Nightwriter's teddy?

Where's my teddy too for that matter?

The teddy I got doesn't look like a friendly stuffed bear.  It looks like some fierce beast that mauled a camper and had to be put down.

You can't possibly tell me those were the only parts avaiable...

You don't get a teddy either.

Deal with it.

[Iakus]

chemiclord wrote...

You don't get a teddy either.

Deal with it.

This is the part where I ignore you rather than say something that can only end badly for us.

Modifié par iakus, 13 avril 2013 - 06:11 .

[chemiclord]

iakus wrote...

chemiclord wrote...

You don't get a teddy either.

Deal with it.

This is the part where I ignore you rather than say something that can only end badly for us.

Badly for you, maybe.  I don't feel bad at all, and nothing that happens on this board would change that feeling.

Because I know I don't deserve anything other than what I paid for.  I didn't like it, but them's the breaks.  That's what I get for buying in sight unseen.  If you wanted a teddy that badly, you probably should have made sure they were selling a teddy before you slapped your money down on the counter.

[Iakus]

chemiclord wrote...

Badly for you, maybe.  I don't feel bad at all, and nothing that happens on this board would change that feeling.

Because I know I don't deserve anything other than what I paid for.  I didn't like it, but them's the breaks.  That's what I get for buying in sight unseen.  If you wanted a teddy that badly, you probably should have made sure they were selling a teddy before you slapped your money down on the counter.

See, when you're (somewhat) more polite, you get a (somewhat) civil answer.

And my answer is, yes, I should have waited.  I nearly didnt' "slap my money down" as you put it.  I had serious reservations about ME3, from what I had heard.  And I went and made a huge mistake.

I trusted.

When other companies lost focus or sold out, Bioware remained steady.  Sure they slipped a bit with ME2 and DA2.  but overall they put out a quality product.  And despite my misgivings, I trusted that even a badly done Bioware game was better than most other games out there.  And what I got was worse.  Not just mediocre, not just unpleasant, but anti-pleasant.  The kind of badness that even taints good things, like the previous Mass Effect games.  

You say I didn't deserve anything but what I paid for?  Well I paid for ME1 and ME2 as well!  I still haven't had the heart to go back to them yet, thanks to ME3.  MEHEM's the only reason ME3 is still installed on my computer (though I know that fact must really twist in your gut, I don't say that to be insulting, just ponting something out)  And I now have serious doubts not just about future Bioware games, but the very minds behind them.  

You think ME3 was "merely" bad and you moved on.  Good for you.  Seriously.  I admire that.  But if you can't or won't understand why some people are atill angry to this day, I suggest you either modify your tone or back off.

[mtmercydave09]

iakus wrote...

chemiclord wrote...

Badly for you, maybe.  I don't feel bad at all, and nothing that happens on this board would change that feeling.

Because I know I don't deserve anything other than what I paid for.  I didn't like it, but them's the breaks.  That's what I get for buying in sight unseen.  If you wanted a teddy that badly, you probably should have made sure they were selling a teddy before you slapped your money down on the counter.

See, when you're (somewhat) more polite, you get a (somewhat) civil answer.

And my answer is, yes, I should have waited.  I nearly didnt' "slap my money down" as you put it.  I had serious reservations about ME3, from what I had heard.  And I went and made a huge mistake.

I trusted.

When other companies lost focus or sold out, Bioware remained steady.  Sure they slipped a bit with ME2 and DA2.  but overall they put out a quality product.  And despite my misgivings, I trusted that even a badly done Bioware game was better than most other games out there.  And what I got was worse.  Not just mediocre, not just unpleasant, but anti-pleasant.  The kind of badness that even taints good things, like the previous Mass Effect games.  

You say I didn't deserve anything but what I paid for?  Well I paid for ME1 and ME2 as well!  I still haven't had the heart to go back to them yet, thanks to ME3.  MEHEM's the only reason ME3 is still installed on my computer (though I know that fact must really twist in your gut, I don't say that to be insulting, just ponting something out)  And I now have serious doubts not just about future Bioware games, but the very minds behind them.  

You think ME3 was "merely" bad and you moved on.  Good for you.  Seriously.  I admire that.  But if you can't or won't understand why some people are atill angry to this day, I suggest you either modify your tone or back off.

We agree on this exactly.  If someone can't empathize with why people might be angry to this day about ME3, then they probably shouldn't bother commenting about it or try to tell other people how they should feel.  People aren't here to be told about how they should and shouldn't feel.  Politeness does go a long way.

I also have doubts about future ME games.  Not only because of the reasons you stated, but because I don't think Bioware can come up with an antogonist that would really get our attention.  I mean heck Shepard just saved the galaxy (if you chose to do that), what more can the next ME come up with that is as big as that?

Modifié par mtmercydave09, 13 avril 2013 - 07:01 .

[chemiclord]

iakus wrote...
You think ME3 was "merely" bad and you moved on.  Good for you.  Seriously.  I admire that.  But if you can't or won't understand why some people are atill angry to this day, I suggest you either modify your tone or back off.

For one, ME3 wasn't "bad"... it was a "good" game with a remarkably hideous ending.  However, that really doesn't boil me because, frankly, that's not terribly uncommon.  For one reason or another, MOST endings fall short of really satisfying the audience; whether due to fan expections or the creator choking at the critical phase.  When you get a case where BOTH happens (like it did here with ME3) the potential for epic ****storms are high.

I understand quite well WHY people are still angry.  They became inexorably and intractibly emotionally invested in a series over the years.  What I DON'T understand is WHY they became so attached in the first place.  This was NEVER a particularly scintillating IP.  It was in truth a fairly generic space opera built around old genre cliches.  It didn't change or redefine the genre... it was never particularly thought provoking or inspiring.  It was "good" (and I enjoyed the experience for the most part)... but we had far too many people apparently convince themselves through force of will that it was "great."

Maybe it's a consequence of how stagnant and desolate the sci-fi genre has become.  Have we become so DESPERATE for that next big thing in the genre that we cling to anything that has even the barest shred of potential and try to will it to greatness?  I dunno.

As for my tone... I don't apologize for it.  I don't have even ONE IOTA of sympathy for the people who became this invested, and I'm not going to tiptoe around your delicate sensibilities.  That's another thing you're just going to have to deal with.

Modifié par chemiclord, 13 avril 2013 - 07:20 .

[SpamBot2000]

chemiclord wrote...

iakus wrote...
You think ME3 was "merely" bad and you moved on.  Good for you.  Seriously.  I admire that.  But if you can't or won't understand why some people are atill angry to this day, I suggest you either modify your tone or back off.

For one, ME3 wasn't "bad"... it was a "good" game with a remarkably hideous ending.  However, that really doesn't boil me because, frankly, that's not terribly uncommon.  For one reason or another, MOST endings fall short of really satisfying the audience; whether due to fan expections or the creator choking at the critical phase.  When you get a case where BOTH happens (like it did here with ME3) the potential for epic ****storms are high.

I understand quite well WHY people are still angry.  They became inexorably and intractibly emotionally invested in a series over the years.  What I DON'T understand is WHY they became so attached.  This was NEVER a particularly scintillating IP.  It was in truth a fairly generic space opera built around old genre cliches.  It didn't change or redefine the genre... it was never particularly thought provoking or inspiring.  It was "good"... but we had far too many people apparently convince themselves through force of will that it was "great."

Maybe it's a consequence of how stagnant and desolate the sci-fi genre has become.  Have we become so DESPERATE for that next big thing in the genre that we cling to anything that has even the barest shred of potential and try to will it to greatness?  I dunno.

As for my tone... I don't apologize for it.  I don't have any sympathy for the people who became this invested, and I'm not going to tiptoe around your delicate sensibilities.  That's another thing you're just going to have to deal with.

It really didn't take "force of will" to "convince" me that Mass Effect was great. It was great because playing it felt better than... well, most things do for me anyway.

And you just had to go and edit that to add a pointless denial of sympathy, didn't you? But that's hardly necessary. We already know any show of weakness is making you terribly uncomfortable. That's why your dislike of garbage like the ME3 ending is exceeded by your dislike of people who are distressed with no obvious way of redress. That's why you happily lawyer for these scoundrels.

I assume this kind of pathetic weakness will make you wet yourself with mirthless laughter, so no need to point it out in capitalized reply.

[Nightwriter]

chemiclord wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

*snip*

Well I don't mean to say I am a child petulantly screaming "WHERE IS MY TEDDY?!" ...

... But seriously where the f*ck is my teddy.

Well, I mean other than the fact that Mass Effect is nothing like Build-A-Bear in like... ANY WAY... yeah, you're exactly correct.

The "the fans are yadda yadda" was what was called "PR Bull****"; just like how Bank of America said they were "your bank", or Microsoft claimed Windows 7 was "my idea."  Somehow I doubt you tried to walk into a Bank of America vault or demand Microsoft pay you royalties... because you knew better.  You knew it was PR Bull**** just like you should have known THIS was PR Bull****.  That you chose to actually BUY the bull**** this time is YOUR problem.

A Build-A-Bear employee is there to make sure you get what you're looking for.  You can customize the experience because there is genuine interaction.  It is in effect a commissioned piece.  

Now imagine in Build-A-Bear wasn't a personalized experience, but instead was in the business of building one bear that they had to sell to five million people.  And now, you get to work with those other millions to decide what that bear is going to look like.  Have fun coming to a conclusion that's going to completely satisfy even a simple majority.  Good luck... seriously, because you're going to need it.

THAT is closer to what Mass Effect would represent, though even that isn't wholly accurate.

The Mass Effect games do not give one-tenth of one **** about your headcanon.  You mistake the games not outright stomping on your experience until the very end for catering to your experience.  Your emotional investment is blinding you to simple logic.  This was NOT a commissioned piece.  This was NOT a Build-A-Bear.  Continuing to pretend it was is simple silliness.

So no teddy for you, kid, nor do you deserve one.

Yeah I hear that a lot. "False advertising is not objectionable because something something cynicism." In truth, the prevalence of false advertising and "PR bull****" has no bearing on whether the business is accountable for it. Should we expect it? Yep. Is misrepresenting the product still bad? Yep.

And anyway: I think you're reading too much accusation into it. I am not accusing BioWare of murder. I simply believe they oversold experience personalization and choice consequence to the extent that they kind of shot themselves in the foot. They kept hyping something they probably should've known they couldn't deliver that spectacularly.

I think a distinction needs to be made between PR bullsh*t and false advertising, as well. If Bank of America said it was my bank, I would not expect them to hand it over to me. If, however, they made specific promises about my account freedoms and certain policy benefits, and I arrived to find that these promises were not held, then yes, I would find fault with it. I would not demand royalties and claim I owned the bank... but then, I've never demanded royalties and claimed I own BioWare, either.

You seem to be clinging to the notion that a complaint is an implicit statement of entitlement, a demand for war reparations, and an assertion that the player deserves total limitless freedom. Possibly you invented this set of opinions, and the imaginary person who holds them, because you enjoy yelling at this fictitious being and telling it how undeserving it is. If so, I don't know what to tell you. There's plenty of idiots like that around, but they're not in my line of sight at present, so I suppose you can keep on rehearsing your response to them and I will try to help you practice your lines if you can find me a spare script.

When it comes to the opinions of more reasonable critics, you seem ultimately confused. I don't have any headcanon. I simply have the collective I've assembled from the choices BioWare has offered me previously. I am not asking them to turn a fantasy in my head into a reality. I am simply asking for things they gave me before. I don't think BioWare has committed mortal sin, I do not believe I have any freedoms except those which are granted to me within the game, and I do not harbor the illusion I am BioWare's only customer.

Also: A Build A Bear employee cannot give you bear parts that are not in stock, just as a dev cannot grant the player choices that are not within the game. In the shop, it is the clerk who facilitates the customization process. In a game, it is simply the character creator, or the dialogue wheel, or any number of other means. Games are undeniably much more restrictive than custom shops. They can only offer you two or three real large options in any given venue. This doesn't really matter though. The point is not that there were not enough options. The point is that the quality of the options dropped. You don't think they did, fine -- it's subjective. But seriously, stop acting like I expected BioWare to bend over backward.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 13 avril 2013 - 07:31 .

[PwrdOff]

The strength of the Mass Effect franchise has always been in its presentation and never its substance. The aliens are all pretty stock cliches, the characters are pretty shallow, especially the protagonist, and the story is standard fare all around. The gameplay was also pretty mediocre, it's not exactly a striking innovation to combo powers to make a bigger boom, after all.

What made the game work was just the way the game created the atmosphere and environment that you could immerse yourself in, and nailed that cinematic feel for all of the big moments. If you look at the endlessly praised suicide mission, it was all the fluff that made it work, there wasn't much to actually do in the mission itself.

I think the people complaining about the ending missed the ball, the details are honestly irrelevant, it was the presentation that was off. The game had been building up a nice flow, but the ending just felt jarring and out of place. Whether or not the geth get blown up in destroy, or if you were indoctrinated the whole time, doesn't really matter as long as everything feels right.

Going forward, the developers just need to focus on presentation and everything will be just fine. The game could have the silliest plot and buggiest gameplay possible, but if players feel like they accomplished something meaningful at the end, then it'll have been a worthwhile effort.

[Dieb]

Nightwriter wrote...
...that teddy thing.

Thanks man. Not that I needed the explanation, but it's a very entertaining, insightful read. Rare beast.


OT: I don't need to.
Mass Effect is now up there with Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Blues Brothers, Thief, Escape From NY/LA, Fallout...
Once you know 'em by heart, it's only after the first twenty times you re-watched/played them. That's also why I could never fully join in all the hatred: Look at the little list above, and what's wrong with the respective plot developements. People got over those, the essence remained. Now for twenty years, I watch them whenever I'm sick or sad, I connect with people because of them and it always feels like a home in my head. All of the criticism stopped mattering a long time ago.

Modifié par Baelrahn, 13 avril 2013 - 07:44 .

[chemiclord]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

It really didn't take "force of will" to "convince" me that Mass Effect was great. It was great because playing it felt better than... well, most things do for me anyway.

And you just had to go and edit that to add a pointless denial of sympathy, didn't you? But that's hardly necessary. We already know any show of weakness is making you terribly uncomfortable. That's why your dislike of garbage like the ME3 ending is exceeded by your dislike of people who are distressed with no obvious way of redress. That's why you happily lawyer for these scoundrels.

I assume this kind of pathetic weakness will make you wet yourself with mirthless laughter, so no need to point it out in capitalized reply.

Show of weakness?  What are you going on about now?  Uncomfortable?  Uh-huh.

And sure... I shake my head at many of the fans here... in much the same way I'd shake my head disparagingly at some guy screaming at a brick wall every day for a year.  It's not worth it.  It's not worth the anguish, the anger, the bitterness.  That wall isn't going to budge.

When I suggest those fans leave, it's not because I want the BSN to be some happy land where people sigh with delight at every mention of the game.  It's earnest advice.  If a year later, it still hurts as much as you say... it's not in your best interests to keep coming here.  Mass Effect doesn't deserve that level of devotion.  Hell, very few things do, and I don't think a video game, ANY video game (or any entertainment), should ever be one of them.

So yes, I am dismissive.  But I am not heartless.  It would honestly depress me if my readers ever were to become so despondant by something I composed.  But I also understand that it's inevitable I'm going to disappoint a great number of people in my career... and I really can't let that eat at me.  It's an approach that I've taken in as a rule.

I don't laugh at your "weakness", but that doesn't mean I'm going to tread lightly around it.

Modifié par chemiclord, 13 avril 2013 - 07:45 .

[mtmercydave09]

chemiclord wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

It really didn't take "force of will" to "convince" me that Mass Effect was great. It was great because playing it felt better than... well, most things do for me anyway.

And you just had to go and edit that to add a pointless denial of sympathy, didn't you? But that's hardly necessary. We already know any show of weakness is making you terribly uncomfortable. That's why your dislike of garbage like the ME3 ending is exceeded by your dislike of people who are distressed with no obvious way of redress. That's why you happily lawyer for these scoundrels.

I assume this kind of pathetic weakness will make you wet yourself with mirthless laughter, so no need to point it out in capitalized reply.

Show of weakness?  What are you going on about now?  Uncomfortable?  Uh-huh.

And sure... I shake my head at many of the fans here... in much the same way I'd shake my head disparagingly at some guy screaming at a brick wall every day for a year.  It's not worth it.  It's not worth the anguish, the anger, the bitterness.  That wall isn't going to budge.

When I suggest those fans leave, it's not because I want the BSN to be some happy land where people sigh with delight at every mention of the game.  It's earnest advice.  If a year later, it still hurts as much as you say... it's not in your best interests to keep coming here.  Mass Effect doesn't deserve that level of devotion.  Hell, very few things do, and I don't think a video game, ANY video game (or any entertainment), should ever be one of them.

So yes, I am dismissive.  But I am not heartless.  It would honestly depress me if my readers ever were to become so despondant by something I composed.  But I also understand that it's inevitable I'm going to disappoint a great number of people in my career... and I really can't let that eat at me.  It's an approach that I've taken in as a rule.

I don't laugh at your "weakness", but that doesn't mean I'm going to tread lightly around it.

You're not heartless?  Could have fooled me since it kind of does come off that way.

I agree with you, it's a game, and people shouldn't take it so seriously.  However, in order to understand why people take it so seriously, or get so angry, I find that being dismissive or borderline heartless or telling people how they shouldn't and shouldn't feel isn't exactly the best way to go about it.

However, many people are just now finishing the game so they haven't been angry for a year.  I dare say that many of the people that finished the game and hated the endings a year ago, have long since moved on to other games anyways.  

As for me, I got hooked on ME3, I was mad about the ending for a week or so, read some fanfiction, and have moved onto other games.  I'd say that's not bad.  However if that happened for a year then yeah, there's something wrong with that.

However, being mad about the endings kind of misses the point of the whole thread, which is letting go of Shepard.

When you're immersed in the ME world, it's pretty easy to get caught up with Shepard, and it takes a little while after playing to snap out of it, and finally let go.  There's also the having to let go of the characters you've grown to love for 3 games.

What I'm more concerned about now, is how Bioware is going to follow up the trilogy since saving the galaxy (if you chose that option), is just about the biggest thing you can do in a sci fi game.  What other antogonist could compete with that?

Modifié par mtmercydave09, 13 avril 2013 - 08:02 .

[Dieb]

*TSHHH* PARAGON INTERRUPT

It's alright, okay? Everybody knows now where you're coming from. This became very personal about a few users, and will most likely get this thread locked. Just saying.

[Gkonone]

robertthebard wrote...

Gkonone wrote...

I really wonder though, would you feel the same if the ending was open and have Shepard survive and be reunited with his or her crew.
Be honest here.

Yes.  Nothing in the galaxy would make for a compelling enough story after defeating the Reapers.  It would be time to hang up the weapons, and go hang out on that beach with Garrus, and get that house, with the 2.5 kids with Traynor, so long as it's by the beach, so I don't have to do any more running and jumping to get there.  Still not sure how she intended to do that, all things considered, but it's her dream, and my Shepard wants to share it with her.  I'd say that, after saving the galaxy twice, and humanity three times, it's time to rest on my laurels and let somebody else get shot at for a while.

Ok, so if I understand you right, you don't want Shepard back cause his/her story has been told and you want to explore more stories/aspects of the ME universe with a different character?

[robertthebard]

Gkonone wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

Gkonone wrote...

I really wonder though, would you feel the same if the ending was open and have Shepard survive and be reunited with his or her crew.
Be honest here.

Yes.  Nothing in the galaxy would make for a compelling enough story after defeating the Reapers.  It would be time to hang up the weapons, and go hang out on that beach with Garrus, and get that house, with the 2.5 kids with Traynor, so long as it's by the beach, so I don't have to do any more running and jumping to get there.  Still not sure how she intended to do that, all things considered, but it's her dream, and my Shepard wants to share it with her.  I'd say that, after saving the galaxy twice, and humanity three times, it's time to rest on my laurels and let somebody else get shot at for a while.

Ok, so if I understand you right, you don't want Shepard back cause his/her story has been told and you want to explore more stories/aspects of the ME universe with a different character?

Certainly.  All through the game, people were promising to buy me drinks when this was over.  It's over, and I want my drinks, and I want them uninterrupted.  I'm sure I've earned it, based on your posited scenario in the first quote here.