274 réponses à ce sujet

[GimmeDaGun]

chemiclord wrote...

mtmercydave09 wrote...

Easier said than done after spending 100+ hours with 3 games throughout 5 years.  

You read from a script in every game, that doesn't mean the people that are playing shouldn't feel as if they are roleplaying the character.  If that's the case, why make RPG games at all then?

You really think people are thinking to themselves when they are playing Shepard, "Oh, Bioware owns this, I don't own it, so I really shouldn't care or get emotionally involved about anything that happens in this game."  No they are not, they are busy imagining themselves in the role as Shepard.

No, you really SHOULDN'T feel like you're roleplaying the character... because you AREN'T.  That is entirely the point I'm trying to get you to see.

YOU aren't speaking with Shepard as your avatar.  You don't speak to the game, and the game doesn't form around the actions of the character you're playing.  THAT stuff was already done, composed, and put together BY SOMEONE ELSE before you ever put that disc (or finished the download) in your system or console.  It simply did not involve you outside of a very tangential way as conglomerate of millions of other fans who provided input that meant just as much individually as yours did.

It's fine to imagine, I suppose, but you need to accept that your imagination means nothing to anyone not you... and that the game is under NO obligation to cater to that imagination... if for no reason than the fact the game CAN'T.  It's a fundamental flaw of computer RPG's (a term that means next to nothing at this point in regards to computer games ANYWAY).  They can emulate the RPG experience... kinda... but it's a pale facsimile even when done well.

Listen, I am not some ME3 defender here that thinks you should love the game as is.  It's perfectly all right to hate what you were given.  I certainly am not fond of how it ended either.  But my opinion?  Means next to jack ****, and I know that.  It was never mine, and I also knew that.  Stupid way to end the story (and frankly the shotgun approach they took to writing the narrative as a whole was a disaster waiting to happen), but meh... it was their story to tell.  Not mine.  Theirs.

And I'm sure at this point, that advice doesn't help.  You got sucked into the illusion, and it probably feels like I'm doing nothing other than "I told you so."  But it's something to keep in mind the next time a computer "RPG" hooks you.  

For example, I can GUARANTEE you that the Witcher 3 is going to ****** off a sizable group of people, and for much the same reason; because it will go in a direction that those fans feel it should not have gone.  I doubt it will be nearly as bad as what happened with ME3 (obviously), but you are GOING to see the same sort of phenomenon.

Wow, finally someone who's not behaving like a crybaby and understands how fictional products work, also someone who lives outside the ME-universe and treats it as it should be treated: a product of human creativity and not one's life. 

Whether you like the final result or dislike it is up to your personal taste. Nothing else. What works for me does not necessarrily work for you. It's very subjective. 

I'm also happy to see that someone understands that there's no such thing as real rpg when it comes to computer games. ME for one is an interactive, sci-fi action-adventure game. You have no real control over the character and the story.

Modifié par GimmeDaGun, 13 avril 2013 - 12:49 .

[Xilizhra]

You know, this wouldn't be nearly so painful if you didn't leap to the worst possible conclusions about two of the endings.

That said, for those who are tremendously invested in the lives of their own Shepards and don't want them to survive based only on atrocity, I can see where this would be problematic. I actually refused outright to buy ME3 until the EC came out, and was ardently against the original endings. I've just found... peace of a sort since then; there is something behind them, even if poorly expressed.

[robertthebard]

Xilizhra wrote...

You know, this wouldn't be nearly so painful if you didn't leap to the worst possible conclusions about two of the endings.

That said, for those who are tremendously invested in the lives of their own Shepards and don't want them to survive based only on atrocity, I can see where this would be problematic. I actually refused outright to buy ME3 until the EC came out, and was ardently against the original endings. I've just found... peace of a sort since then; there is something behind them, even if poorly expressed.

Why not though, since people that play consistently to the endings and pick Destroy are considered to be almost as bad as the Reapers.  Is this a comment aimed at all endings carry possible negative connotations, or the other two endings are vastly superior type position?  The former is definitely objective, while the latter is definitely subjective.

[mtmercydave09]

GimmeDaGun wrote...

chemiclord wrote...

mtmercydave09 wrote...

Easier said than done after spending 100+ hours with 3 games throughout 5 years.  

You read from a script in every game, that doesn't mean the people that are playing shouldn't feel as if they are roleplaying the character.  If that's the case, why make RPG games at all then?

You really think people are thinking to themselves when they are playing Shepard, "Oh, Bioware owns this, I don't own it, so I really shouldn't care or get emotionally involved about anything that happens in this game."  No they are not, they are busy imagining themselves in the role as Shepard.

No, you really SHOULDN'T feel like you're roleplaying the character... because you AREN'T.  That is entirely the point I'm trying to get you to see.

YOU aren't speaking with Shepard as your avatar.  You don't speak to the game, and the game doesn't form around the actions of the character you're playing.  THAT stuff was already done, composed, and put together BY SOMEONE ELSE before you ever put that disc (or finished the download) in your system or console.  It simply did not involve you outside of a very tangential way as conglomerate of millions of other fans who provided input that meant just as much individually as yours did.

It's fine to imagine, I suppose, but you need to accept that your imagination means nothing to anyone not you... and that the game is under NO obligation to cater to that imagination... if for no reason than the fact the game CAN'T.  It's a fundamental flaw of computer RPG's (a term that means next to nothing at this point in regards to computer games ANYWAY).  They can emulate the RPG experience... kinda... but it's a pale facsimile even when done well.

Listen, I am not some ME3 defender here that thinks you should love the game as is.  It's perfectly all right to hate what you were given.  I certainly am not fond of how it ended either.  But my opinion?  Means next to jack ****, and I know that.  It was never mine, and I also knew that.  Stupid way to end the story (and frankly the shotgun approach they took to writing the narrative as a whole was a disaster waiting to happen), but meh... it was their story to tell.  Not mine.  Theirs.

And I'm sure at this point, that advice doesn't help.  You got sucked into the illusion, and it probably feels like I'm doing nothing other than "I told you so."  But it's something to keep in mind the next time a computer "RPG" hooks you.  

For example, I can GUARANTEE you that the Witcher 3 is going to ****** off a sizable group of people, and for much the same reason; because it will go in a direction that those fans feel it should not have gone.  I doubt it will be nearly as bad as what happened with ME3 (obviously), but you are GOING to see the same sort of phenomenon.

Wow, finally someone who's not behaving like a crybaby and understands how fictional products work, also someone who lives outside the ME-universe and treats it as it should be treated: a product of human creativity and not one's life. 

Whether you like the final result or dislike it is up to your personal taste. Nothing else. What works for me does not necessarrily work for you. It's very subjective. 

I'm also happy to see that someone understands that there's no such thing as real rpg when it comes to computer games. ME for one is an interactive, sci-fi action-adventure game. You have no real control over the character and the story.

You can say that about any RPG game.  Yes there is no true 100% RPG unless you completely write the story yourself, but if there was no RPG element at all, why call them RPG's at all?

Sure you don't have any real control over the character and story, but it's not like you have no control at all.  After all, you still did make decisions that effected the story later on didn't you?  I mean yes the broader plot stayed the same as in no matter what you did you still got those same 4 endings choices, but that doesn't mean you didn't have some control of what happened along the way.

That's all I'm trying to say.  chemiclord seemed to be said it's 100% not an RPG, all I'm saying is it's not as simple as 100% or 0%.  Everybody knows you don't own the story, but it's the job of the writers of the game to make it feel like your own.

[Getorex]

GimmeDaGun wrote...

chemiclord wrote...

mtmercydave09 wrote...

Easier said than done after spending 100+ hours with 3 games throughout 5 years.  

You read from a script in every game, that doesn't mean the people that are playing shouldn't feel as if they are roleplaying the character.  If that's the case, why make RPG games at all then?

You really think people are thinking to themselves when they are playing Shepard, "Oh, Bioware owns this, I don't own it, so I really shouldn't care or get emotionally involved about anything that happens in this game."  No they are not, they are busy imagining themselves in the role as Shepard.

No, you really SHOULDN'T feel like you're roleplaying the character... because you AREN'T.  That is entirely the point I'm trying to get you to see.

YOU aren't speaking with Shepard as your avatar.  You don't speak to the game, and the game doesn't form around the actions of the character you're playing.  THAT stuff was already done, composed, and put together BY SOMEONE ELSE before you ever put that disc (or finished the download) in your system or console.  It simply did not involve you outside of a very tangential way as conglomerate of millions of other fans who provided input that meant just as much individually as yours did.

It's fine to imagine, I suppose, but you need to accept that your imagination means nothing to anyone not you... and that the game is under NO obligation to cater to that imagination... if for no reason than the fact the game CAN'T.  It's a fundamental flaw of computer RPG's (a term that means next to nothing at this point in regards to computer games ANYWAY).  They can emulate the RPG experience... kinda... but it's a pale facsimile even when done well.

Listen, I am not some ME3 defender here that thinks you should love the game as is.  It's perfectly all right to hate what you were given.  I certainly am not fond of how it ended either.  But my opinion?  Means next to jack ****, and I know that.  It was never mine, and I also knew that.  Stupid way to end the story (and frankly the shotgun approach they took to writing the narrative as a whole was a disaster waiting to happen), but meh... it was their story to tell.  Not mine.  Theirs.

And I'm sure at this point, that advice doesn't help.  You got sucked into the illusion, and it probably feels like I'm doing nothing other than "I told you so."  But it's something to keep in mind the next time a computer "RPG" hooks you.  

For example, I can GUARANTEE you that the Witcher 3 is going to ****** off a sizable group of people, and for much the same reason; because it will go in a direction that those fans feel it should not have gone.  I doubt it will be nearly as bad as what happened with ME3 (obviously), but you are GOING to see the same sort of phenomenon.

Wow, finally someone who's not behaving like a crybaby and understands how fictional products work, also someone who lives outside the ME-universe and treats it as it should be treated: a product of human creativity and not one's life. 

Whether you like the final result or dislike it is up to your personal taste. Nothing else. What works for me does not necessarrily work for you. It's very subjective. 

I'm also happy to see that someone understands that there's no such thing as real rpg when it comes to computer games. ME for one is an interactive, sci-fi action-adventure game. You have no real control over the character and the story.

Meh.  I don't play swords and sorcery games. I friggin' HATE them.  ALL the same.  Same characters, same silly plots, same stereotypical look and feel.    There's always a good king and an evil queen, or a good queen and an evil king.  Good wizard, bad witch, or vice versa.  Orcs, dwarves, "rogues" (who wear leather and favor knives, etc), knights in armor, etc.  They are ALL identical and are all copies of the original Dungeons and Dragons game which was created in response to Tolkien's Lord of the Rings.  They are invariant, cliche, redundant, obnoxious.  So, those of us who don't play every game that spews out the doors of game companies do not have plenty of other games to play.  When there is a limited product that we like, we do cling to it and do not merely consider it a throw-away commodity.

I have played 4 games in the last 16 months:  Deus Ex: Human Revolution, Battlefield 3, Dead Space 2, and ME3...and Battlefield kinda sucked.  Too focused on MP so has a VERY short SP element.  Wont make the future mistake of buying that series again.  That's it.  So, there are NOT a bunch of good games out there.  Good games are few and far between.  So, for those like me who are not generic gamers who have virtually no discrimination on what they play, there isn't a lot to go with.  With so few truly good games out there, yeah, we tend to cling to the few we DO have.  If you play bazillions of games, or practically every game that is made then you don't give a crap for any of them, they're just tissues to be blown into and dropped. 

Regardless of how you define "true RPG" it doesn't matter.  It is what is FELT that matters, irrespective of the objective reality.  Sure, our choices were limited in ME games out of necessity (would require a fairly strong AI to make it less strictly formatted) but they nonetheless FELT like OUR decisions and our decision impacted OUR character(s).  If you read a good book you get lost in the characters and story.  The story is set and unchanging but you still become attached or emotionally invested in the characters.  Same thing with some games. 

Modifié par Getorex, 13 avril 2013 - 07:28 .

[Iakus]

GimmeDaGun wrote...

Wow, finally someone who's not behaving like a crybaby and understands how fictional products work, also someone who lives outside the ME-universe and treats it as it should be treated: a product of human creativity and not one's life. 

Whether you like the final result or dislike it is up to your personal taste. Nothing else. What works for me does not necessarrily work for you. It's very subjective. 

I'm also happy to see that someone understands that there's no such thing as real rpg when it comes to computer games. ME for one is an interactive, sci-fi action-adventure game. You have no real control over the character and the story.

Your condescending remarks aside, I should also point out that every game Bioware has put out in the last 15 years has been advertised as an rpg.  Even the Mass Effect trilogy   Are you accusing them of false advertising for all that time?

[Iakus]

Getorex wrote...

Regardless of how you define "true RPG" it doesn't matter.  It is what is FELT that matters, irrespective of the objective reality.  Sure, our choices were limited in ME games out of necessity (would require a fairly strong AI to make it less strictly formatted) but they nonetheless FELT like OUR decisions and our decision impacted OUR character(s).  If you read a good book you get lost in the characters and story.  The story is set and unchanging but you still become attached or emotionally invested in the characters.  Same thing with some games. 

I think I mentioned this before, but try Alpha Protocol.  Something tells me you'll love it.

[Yestare7]

Getorex wrote...  It is what is FELT that matters, irrespective of the objective reality.   but they nonetheless FELT like OUR decisions and our decision impacted OUR character(s).  If you read a good book you get lost in the characters and story.  The story is set and unchanging but you still become attached or emotionally invested in the characters. 

I find myself agreeing with you again.

[mtmercydave09]

Getorex wrote...

GimmeDaGun wrote...

chemiclord wrote...

mtmercydave09 wrote...

Easier said than done after spending 100+ hours with 3 games throughout 5 years.  

You read from a script in every game, that doesn't mean the people that are playing shouldn't feel as if they are roleplaying the character.  If that's the case, why make RPG games at all then?

You really think people are thinking to themselves when they are playing Shepard, "Oh, Bioware owns this, I don't own it, so I really shouldn't care or get emotionally involved about anything that happens in this game."  No they are not, they are busy imagining themselves in the role as Shepard.

No, you really SHOULDN'T feel like you're roleplaying the character... because you AREN'T.  That is entirely the point I'm trying to get you to see.

YOU aren't speaking with Shepard as your avatar.  You don't speak to the game, and the game doesn't form around the actions of the character you're playing.  THAT stuff was already done, composed, and put together BY SOMEONE ELSE before you ever put that disc (or finished the download) in your system or console.  It simply did not involve you outside of a very tangential way as conglomerate of millions of other fans who provided input that meant just as much individually as yours did.

It's fine to imagine, I suppose, but you need to accept that your imagination means nothing to anyone not you... and that the game is under NO obligation to cater to that imagination... if for no reason than the fact the game CAN'T.  It's a fundamental flaw of computer RPG's (a term that means next to nothing at this point in regards to computer games ANYWAY).  They can emulate the RPG experience... kinda... but it's a pale facsimile even when done well.

Listen, I am not some ME3 defender here that thinks you should love the game as is.  It's perfectly all right to hate what you were given.  I certainly am not fond of how it ended either.  But my opinion?  Means next to jack ****, and I know that.  It was never mine, and I also knew that.  Stupid way to end the story (and frankly the shotgun approach they took to writing the narrative as a whole was a disaster waiting to happen), but meh... it was their story to tell.  Not mine.  Theirs.

And I'm sure at this point, that advice doesn't help.  You got sucked into the illusion, and it probably feels like I'm doing nothing other than "I told you so."  But it's something to keep in mind the next time a computer "RPG" hooks you.  

For example, I can GUARANTEE you that the Witcher 3 is going to ****** off a sizable group of people, and for much the same reason; because it will go in a direction that those fans feel it should not have gone.  I doubt it will be nearly as bad as what happened with ME3 (obviously), but you are GOING to see the same sort of phenomenon.

Wow, finally someone who's not behaving like a crybaby and understands how fictional products work, also someone who lives outside the ME-universe and treats it as it should be treated: a product of human creativity and not one's life. 

Whether you like the final result or dislike it is up to your personal taste. Nothing else. What works for me does not necessarrily work for you. It's very subjective. 

I'm also happy to see that someone understands that there's no such thing as real rpg when it comes to computer games. ME for one is an interactive, sci-fi action-adventure game. You have no real control over the character and the story.

Meh.  I don't play swords and sorcery games. I friggin' HATE them.  ALL the same.  Same characters, same silly plots, same stereotypical look and feel.    There's always a good king and an evil queen, or a good queen and an evil king.  Good wizard, bad witch, or vice versa.  Orcs, dwarves, "rogues" (who wear leather and favor knives, etc), knights in armor, etc.  They are ALL identical and are all copies of the original Dungeons and Dragons game which was created in response to Tolkien's Lord of the Rings.  They are invariant, cliche, redundant, obnoxious.  So, those of us who don't play every game that spews out the doors of game companies do not have plenty of other games to play.  When there is a limited product that we like, we do cling to it and do not merely consider it a throw-away commodity.

I have played 4 games in the last 16 months:  Deus Ex: Human Revolution, Battlefield 3, Dead Space 2, and ME3...and Battlefield kinda sucked.  Too focused on MP so has a VERY short SP element.  Wont make the future mistake of buying that series again.  That's it.  So, there are NOT a bunch of good games out there.  Good games are few and far between.  So, for those like me who are not generic gamers who have virtually no discrimination on what they play, there isn't a lot to go with.  With so few truly good games out there, yeah, we tend to cling to the few we DO have.  If you play bazillions of games, or practically every game that is made then you don't give a crap for any of them, they're just tissues to be blown into and dropped. 

Regardless of how you define "true RPG" it doesn't matter.  It is what is FELT that matters, irrespective of the objective reality.  Sure, our choices were limited in ME games out of necessity (would require a fairly strong AI to make it less strictly formatted) but they nonetheless FELT like OUR decisions and our decision impacted OUR character(s).  If you read a good book you get lost in the characters and story.  The story is set and unchanging but you still become attached or emotionally invested in the characters.  Same thing with some games. 

Agreed.  That is the point of RPG games, to make us feel like we are in control even though we know we aren't.  We're just the leading actor in a script that's already made, but our choices did have some effect on what we experienced.

I do wonder if chemiclord & GimmeDaGun would say that pretty much every company that's ever made an RPG game should be sued for false advertising.

[spirosz]

chemiclord wrote...
No, you really SHOULDN'T feel like you're roleplaying the character... because you AREN'T.  That is entirely the point I'm trying to get you to see.

YOU aren't speaking with Shepard as your avatar.  You don't speak to the game, and the game doesn't form around the actions of the character you're playing.  THAT stuff was already done, composed, and put together BY SOMEONE ELSE before you ever put that disc (or finished the download) in your system or console.  It simply did not involve you outside of a very tangential way as conglomerate of millions of other fans who provided input that meant just as much individually as yours did.

It's fine to imagine, I suppose, but you need to accept that your imagination means nothing to anyone not you... and that the game is under NO obligation to cater to that imagination... if for no reason than the fact the game CAN'T.  It's a fundamental flaw of computer RPG's (a term that means next to nothing at this point in regards to computer games ANYWAY).  They can emulate the RPG experience... kinda... but it's a pale facsimile even when done well.

Listen, I am not some ME3 defender here that thinks you should love the game as is.  It's perfectly all right to hate what you were given.  I certainly am not fond of how it ended either.  But my opinion?  Means next to jack ****, and I know that.  It was never mine, and I also knew that.  Stupid way to end the story (and frankly the shotgun approach they took to writing the narrative as a whole was a disaster waiting to happen), but meh... it was their story to tell.  Not mine.  Theirs.

And I'm sure at this point, that advice doesn't help.  You got sucked into the illusion, and it probably feels like I'm doing nothing other than "I told you so."  But it's something to keep in mind the next time a computer "RPG" hooks you.  

For example, I can GUARANTEE you that the Witcher 3 is going to ****** off a sizable group of people, and for much the same reason; because it will go in a direction that those fans feel it should not have gone.  I doubt it will be nearly as bad as what happened with ME3 (obviously), but you are GOING to see the same sort of phenomenon.

So there'sr never been a real RPG then?  Ahahaha.  

Seriously though, you don't think people realize that there are already defined moments and the story will always be set the way the developers crafted it, etc?  It's the fact that in this story, you're able to branch out, define YOUR Shepard in a way, that is different from others, regardless of the illusion, there is Role-Playing being involved because of the developers allowing us to make Shepard ours in the sense, that falls under what they created.  

It's like stating every Shepard romanced Liara because the developers wrote her as an LI and everyone else who didn't, are excluded.  Or every Shepard looks like Sheploo, picked Synthesis, have the same morals, picked the same exact dialogue.

Lol.

Modifié par spirosz, 13 avril 2013 - 08:38 .

[spirosz]

I don't know what game you're playing, but I'm positive my Shepard is different from many others and I still realize that this game was always Bioware's game, but they developed it in a way (like most RPGS) that allow us to craft the protagonist the way we want.

Until ME3...

ah

haha

hahaha

hahahahaha.

Modifié par spirosz, 13 avril 2013 - 08:40 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Chemiclord, have you ever played an RPG before?

[spirosz]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Chemiclord, have you ever played an RPG before?

Yeah he has, ME3. 

OH.

[o Ventus]

ITT: People don't understand what RPGs are.

I don't think I need to name them.

[AresKeith]

spirosz wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Chemiclord, have you ever played an RPG before?

Yeah he has, Gears of Effect 

OH.

Fixed that for ya  lol

[GeneralMoskvin_2.0]

I don't care about Shepard.

I care about the great universe, the great characters. The bro and THE VOICE of a Garrus, the badassness of a Javik, the alien but at the same time human feeling you get when facing Legion the first time, the great conflict in Samara between her role as justicar and mother...I can't let got of those characters. I'm not gonna talk about ME3 now, but ME2 just had the greatest figures in the history of video gaming. It's a shame all of the screentime they deserved got stolen by oversexualized poster characters like EDI, Miranda, Liara, Ashley, and, almost not want to say it, Chobot.

The feeling of the ME series is one I cannot describe. I hope Bioware makes a worthy sequel to this EPOS.

[MegaSovereign]

If you what you define an RPG is the ability to influence the characters of the surrounding fictional universe (and by extension, the fictional universe itself) then how exactly is ME3 lacking that?

The auto-dialogue would affect the illusion of choice more than anything else, not necesarily role-playing opportunities.

[PwrdOff]

I define RPGs by the ability to get better swords to kill bigger goblins.

[o Ventus]

GeneralMoskvin_2.0 wrote...

I don't care about Shepard.

I care about the great universe, the great characters. The bro and THE VOICE of a Garrus, the badassness of a Javik, the alien but at the same time human feeling you get when facing Legion the first time, the great conflict in Samara between her role as justicar and mother...I can't let got of those characters. I'm not gonna talk about ME3 now, but ME2 just had the greatest figures in the history of video gaming. It's a shame all of the screentime they deserved got stolen by oversexualized poster characters like EDI, Miranda, Liara, Ashley, and, almost not want to say it, Chobot.

The feeling of the ME series is one I cannot describe. I hope Bioware makes a worthy sequel to this EPOS.

So EDI, Liara, and Miranda are and characters because they're sexualized, but Samara is totally super-cool despite being just as sexualized?

Not a double-standard at all, no siree.

[GeneralMoskvin_2.0]

[quote]BNN999 wrote...

I define RPGs by the ability to get better swords to kill bigger goblins.[/quote]

That's what I'd call a JRPG or Hack n' Slay.

You know, I've been disliking history after ancient rome and before Napoleonic times. I just love the modern. Skyrim, Dragon age, none of them hit my flavour. And then ME came. And it impacted like a bomb. And there is no character that expresses the fascination with this game as much as Legion. You talk to this machine of which you think it is a dangerous menace to the galaxy. Extremely alien and beyond reckoning in any case. And then there is the shocking point when you get that this machine is more humane than any organic being encountered in the entire series. 

....Man, if only there was a game just with this particular Geth unit...I'd be all over it.

Also:

[quote]GeneralMoskvin_2.0 wrote...

I don't care about Shepard.

I care about the great universe, the great characters. The bro and THE VOICE of a Garrus, the badassness of a Javik, the alien but at the same time human feeling you get when facing Legion the first time, the great conflict in Samara between her role as justicar and mother...I can't let got of those characters. I'm not gonna talk about ME3 now, but ME2 just had the greatest figures in the history of video gaming. It's a shame all of the screentime they deserved got stolen by oversexualized poster characters like EDI, Miranda, Liara, Ashley, and, almost not want to say it, Chobot.

The feeling of the ME series is one I cannot describe. I hope Bioware makes a worthy sequel to this EPOS.[/quote]

So EDI, Liara, and Miranda are and characters because they're sexualized, but Samara is totally super-cool despite being just as sexualized?

Not a double-standard at all, no siree.[/quote]

Well, Samara is certainly not a poster character, is she? I agree her outfit was silly. But she had little screentime and also a good character as opposed by Miranda (FATHER, SISTER, PERFECT), Liara (ERMAGERD, PROTHEANS AND SHADOWBROKER), Ashley (U ARE STILL WITH CERBERUS RAAAAGH) and Chobot (no more words needed). EDI was okay. The body was something beyond mature rating, but the rest, okay.

Modifié par GeneralMoskvin_2.0, 13 avril 2013 - 09:10 .

[Barquiel]

o Ventus wrote...

GeneralMoskvin_2.0 wrote...

I don't care about Shepard.

I care about the great universe, the great characters. The bro and THE VOICE of a Garrus, the badassness of a Javik, the alien but at the same time human feeling you get when facing Legion the first time, the great conflict in Samara between her role as justicar and mother...I can't let got of those characters. I'm not gonna talk about ME3 now, but ME2 just had the greatest figures in the history of video gaming. It's a shame all of the screentime they deserved got stolen by oversexualized poster characters like EDI, Miranda, Liara, Ashley, and, almost not want to say it, Chobot.

The feeling of the ME series is one I cannot describe. I hope Bioware makes a worthy sequel to this EPOS.

So EDI, Liara, and Miranda are and characters because they're sexualized, but Samara is totally super-cool despite being just as sexualized?

Not a double-standard at all, no siree.

Samara is one of my favorite characters, but her outfit is really silly I always found it weird that Morinth is more modestly dressed than her...

And Garrus having not enough screentime...*facepalm*

Modifié par Barquiel, 13 avril 2013 - 09:09 .

[GeneralMoskvin_2.0]

Barquiel wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

GeneralMoskvin_2.0 wrote...

I don't care about Shepard.

I care about the great universe, the great characters. The bro and THE VOICE of a Garrus, the badassness of a Javik, the alien but at the same time human feeling you get when facing Legion the first time, the great conflict in Samara between her role as justicar and mother...I can't let got of those characters. I'm not gonna talk about ME3 now, but ME2 just had the greatest figures in the history of video gaming. It's a shame all of the screentime they deserved got stolen by oversexualized poster characters like EDI, Miranda, Liara, Ashley, and, almost not want to say it, Chobot.

The feeling of the ME series is one I cannot describe. I hope Bioware makes a worthy sequel to this EPOS.

So EDI, Liara, and Miranda are and characters because they're sexualized, but Samara is totally super-cool despite being just as sexualized?

Not a double-standard at all, no siree.

Samara is one of my favorite characters, but her outfit is really silly I always found it weird that Morinth is more modestly dressed than her...

And Garrus having not enough screentime...*facepalm*

...Derp. I wanted to add that the ME2 characters did not have enough screentime. Also, Tali.

[o Ventus]

GeneralMoskvin_2.0 wrote...

Well, Samara is certainly not a poster character, is she? I agree her outfit was silly. But she had little screentime and also a good character as opposed by Miranda (FATHER, SISTER, PERFECT), Liara (ERMAGERD, PROTHEANS AND SHADOWBROKER), Ashley (U ARE STILL WITH CERBERUS RAAAAGH) and Chobot (no more words needed). EDI was okay. The body was something beyond mature rating, but the rest, okay.

These are two wholly unrelated arguments arguments, so which is it?

I also like the gross generalizations and oversimplifications of every single character you listed. 

Besides maybe Liara. She was always a Space Sue. It was only made worse once she became your friendly neighborhood Mob Boss the Shadow Broker.

[PwrdOff]

I never understood how Liara became popular in the first place, her characterization in ME1 was borderline offensive. With the other squaddies you could at least catch glimpses of what they would become later on, with her it just came completely out of the blue.

[spirosz]

How was her characterization offensive?