635 réponses à ce sujet

[Kleli]

Ninja Stan wrote...

Kleli wrote...
Sorry, I was refering to the letter here: http://www.dorkly.co...pany-in-america

The letter in your link has no attribution or link to its source, and looks hella fake. Mr. Moore's actual response was his "We Can Do Better" blog entry.

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I just read this after reading Stan's post. I am pretty sure that this is fake as well. Dorkly watermarked the image, and my assumption is that it's Dorkly that made it.

Sorry, I just saw a certain Mr. Chris Priestly link to it on Twitter and assumed it was a new response since the original one was posted before the results from the poll were final. I apologize for the mistake.

Ninja Stan wrote...

Your opposition to Mr. Moore's blog seems to be based on two factors. One, you don't believe what he says, and two, you haven't seen any change yet. At the risk of sounding combative, DUH! He's just made his statement and, as I mentioned above, you likely won't see visible change or receive updates to the progress of that change until future games are released. It takes time for a company as large as EA to change the way it does things. Give them some time to do the things they say they're going to do.
And as also mentioned above, that letter you link to was not penned by Mr. Moore.
I would say that disagreeing with Peter Moore's statements does not necessarily mean that you are right and he is wrong, or that because you disagree, he must not know why you disagree. Most of the people disagreeing with Mr. Moore are emotional, reactionary, and using subjective and anecdotal evidence to "prove" their claims, while it is very likely that EA has better, more substantive ways of finding out how many people are dissatisfied and why. As many people like to point out, EA is not a person. It is a company. Mr. Moore is speaaking not just for himself, but on behalf of all 8000 EA employees. It would be unfair to imply that none of those 8000 people have any idea what they're talking about when it comes to their own company.
I'm a little biased because I used to work for EA, but I am often willing to give companies the benefit of the doubt when they release statements like the blog entry Peter Moore wrote (not the one you linked to, but the one on EA's own website).

I don't trust what Mr. Moore is saying because I haven't seen any changes yet. That's true. While BioWare seem to be interested in making great products that entertain me, EA (in my eyes) comes across as being way more interested in just trying to get as much money from me as possible with the least amount of effort. So you'll have to excuse me for not taking his word on something until I see some actual change. Putting blind faith in big companies is usually something that customers should be wary of.

In the end though I'm not here to bash EA. I wrote my thoughts on the matter here partly becuase I have a terrible temper in the mornings (yes, it's morning where I am) but also because I really want EA to understand that they need to improve. For real. Not just say that they are going to improve and then do nothing.
I'm just tired of being let down all the time. Releasing products that look great on paper but are full of bugs, feel incomplete and rushed, have lacking support etc. is quite frusterating for a customer. Especially when it happens again and again and again.

Modifié par Kleli, 11 avril 2013 - 07:09 .

[DukeOfNukes]

I voted for it last year because I thought the whole poll was a joke, and thought it would be funny if EA won it.

I was right. So many of the companies on here don't deserve to be. Best Buy? GameStop? Really? There are companies out there who actively try to seek out the destruction of American values and culture, and these are some of the worst companies in America? Nevermind the banks that caused a global economic crisis.

[Eternal Napalm]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Are casinos also unethical?

Casinos are highly regulated.

[Eternal Napalm]

Talk is cheap. EA can release whatever press releases they want. It doesn't hold any weight. Action does.

But think of it this way, too. EA's current methodology is moving games forward. Progress is being made.

[Xewaka]

Eternal Napalm wrote...
Talk is cheap. EA can release whatever press releases they want. It doesn't hold any weight. Action does. 

This goes both ways though. They keep making money out of the practices the loudest consumers in the internet so vitriollicaly criticize. That means people keep spending on it.

[Ninja Stan]

Kleli wrote...

I don't trust what Mr. Moore is saying because I haven't seen any changes yet. That's true. While BioWare seem to be interested in making great products that entertain me, EA (in my eyes) comes across as being way more interested in just trying to get as much money from me as possible with the least amount of effort. So you'll have to excuse me for not taking his word on something until I see some actual change. Putting blind faith in big companies is usually something that customers should be wary of.

That's totally fair, and please don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to convince people to suddenly become rah-rah EA cheerleaders and here, drink this Kool-Aid. I believe that people should be more repsonsible in their consumerism and realize the biases and motivations of the companies, media, and people they receive information from. You've made a decent case for yourself, you've clarified your position, and you've even admitted a mistkae when you made one. I appreciate discussion and debate with folks like you.

The only thing I can take issue with is your assertion that "EA... comes across as being way more interested in just trying to get as much money from [you] as possible with the least amount of effort." This is because EA is, in fact, really interested in trying to get as much money from you as possible with the least amount of effort. EA is a company, and this is what companies do. They never tried to hide it, they never professed to do anything else, and they've been doing it pretty openly for over 30 years.

It may seem cruel and heartless, but look at gamers. They're only using EA to buy the games they make. They don't actually care about the company. Seriously, though. You know EA is a company that wants to make money off their games! You know their motivations and their ultimate purpose! You also know that companies are run and staffed by real, flesh-and-blood human beings like Peter Moore, Drs. Ray and Greg, Allan Schumacher, and even me. Heck, you might work for a company, too! Just because someone dislikes the specific way your company makes money doesn't necessarily make it evil or unethical. Tim Horton's isn't a terrible monster of a compnay just because their breakfast paninis taste like cardboard and bad breakfast sammiches offend me.

I'll share with you my way of getting companies to stop doing things: stop supporting them. Don't like what EA is doing? Don't buy EA games. It is the most direct way you can affect them. You don't have to be clever or ragey about it, you don't have to organize a petition or threaten anyone with lawsuits (unless they've done something illegal that has directly harmed you, of course), and you don't have to keep telling the BSN you're fed up and leaving, for sure this time, over and over again. Just don't buy EA games and tell people why, the same way you've entered the discussion here. And voila!, you've done your part and done your duty as a responsible consumer.

Giant companies can't change overnight. Heck, even after EA purchased BioWare, I wasn't entirely convinced they weren't the "big bad corporate overlord" of legend . But several years, many company meetings, and reports of a lot of praise and support from EA HQ finally convinced me. I didn't drink the Kool-Aid, but they only very rarely offered me any. They demonstrated through their actions (and the lack of EA overseers in the Bio building) that they genuinely wanted BioWare to do what they did best: make awesome story-driven games.

I'm just tired of being let down all the time. Releasing products that look great on paper but are full of bugs, feel incomplete and rushed, have lacking support etc. is quite frusterating for a customer. Especially when it happens again and again and again.

Then you should stop buying games. And movies. And watching television commercials. And looking at ad posters. Advertising and marketing is everywhere. You would probably do better if you tempered your expectations a bit, because marketing isn't going away anytime soon. Hope for the best, but expect something a little more reasonable, and realize that you have to take some responsibility for your own purchasing decisions. Companies can tempt you and promise things and say all the nice things, but ultimately, you are the only one who can make the decision to buy or not buy.

[Eternal Napalm]

Xewaka wrote...

Eternal Napalm wrote...
Talk is cheap. EA can release whatever press releases they want. It doesn't hold any weight. Action does. 

This goes both ways though. They keep making money out of the practices the loudest consumers in the internet so vitriollicaly criticize. That means people keep spending on it.

I agree. They've been losing money, though. Maybe the backslash has gotten to them. A lot of people don't buy EA games anymore.

[Ninja Stan]

Xewaka wrote...

Eternal Napalm wrote...
Talk is cheap. EA can release whatever press releases they want. It doesn't hold any weight. Action does. 

This goes both ways though. They keep making money out of the practices the loudest consumers in the internet so vitriollicaly criticize. That means people keep spending on it.

That could mean that some people actually like EA's games and/or don't hate them or the company enough to stop buying from them. You can only complain about something for so long before realizing that, since companies keep doing it, it must be working somehow.

Don't worry, I feel the same way about Nickelback. Don't like 'em, but they're super popular, so a lot of someones around the world must like them.

[Isichar]

Seems pretty reasonable Stan.

[Hey]

Worst company? Out of all the bull sheit that companies bring to the table a video game company is the worst? crazy.

[Catastrophy]

Again? What did they do this time? Baby slave labour? Drug testing without consent?
Oh, wait, I guess it has to do with disappointing people about their products. That's really nasty and they should be eaten.
IMO, voting with the wallet is more effective.
Holy crap, I just looked at their market value - how did they get so big? They must have disappointed millions of people!

[Kleli]

Ninja Stan wrote...

Kleli wrote...

I don't trust what Mr. Moore is saying because I haven't seen any changes yet. That's true. While BioWare seem to be interested in making great products that entertain me, EA (in my eyes) comes across as being way more interested in just trying to get as much money from me as possible with the least amount of effort. So you'll have to excuse me for not taking his word on something until I see some actual change. Putting blind faith in big companies is usually something that customers should be wary of.

That's totally fair, and please don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to convince people to suddenly become rah-rah EA cheerleaders and here, drink this Kool-Aid. I believe that people should be more repsonsible in their consumerism and realize the biases and motivations of the companies, media, and people they receive information from. You've made a decent case for yourself, you've clarified your position, and you've even admitted a mistkae when you made one. I appreciate discussion and debate with folks like you.

The only thing I can take issue with is your assertion that "EA... comes across as being way more interested in just trying to get as much money from [you] as possible with the least amount of effort." This is because EA is, in fact, really interested in trying to get as much money from you as possible with the least amount of effort. EA is a company, and this is what companies do. They never tried to hide it, they never professed to do anything else, and they've been doing it pretty openly for over 30 years.

It may seem cruel and heartless, but look at gamers. They're only using EA to buy the games they make. They don't actually care about the company. Seriously, though. You know EA is a company that wants to make money off their games! You know their motivations and their ultimate purpose! You also know that companies are run and staffed by real, flesh-and-blood human beings like Peter Moore, Drs. Ray and Greg, Allan Schumacher, and even me. Heck, you might work for a company, too! Just because someone dislikes the specific way your company makes money doesn't necessarily make it evil or unethical. Tim Horton's isn't a terrible monster of a compnay just because their breakfast paninis taste like cardboard and bad breakfast sammiches offend me.

I'll share with you my way of getting companies to stop doing things: stop supporting them. Don't like what EA is doing? Don't buy EA games. It is the most direct way you can affect them. You don't have to be clever or ragey about it, you don't have to organize a petition or threaten anyone with lawsuits (unless they've done something illegal that has directly harmed you, of course), and you don't have to keep telling the BSN you're fed up and leaving, for sure this time, over and over again. Just don't buy EA games and tell people why, the same way you've entered the discussion here. And voila!, you've done your part and done your duty as a responsible consumer.

Giant companies can't change overnight. Heck, even after EA purchased BioWare, I wasn't entirely convinced they weren't the "big bad corporate overlord" of legend . But several years, many company meetings, and reports of a lot of praise and support from EA HQ finally convinced me. I didn't drink the Kool-Aid, but they only very rarely offered me any. They demonstrated through their actions (and the lack of EA overseers in the Bio building) that they genuinely wanted BioWare to do what they did best: make awesome story-driven games.

I'm just tired of being let down all the time. Releasing products that look great on paper but are full of bugs, feel incomplete and rushed, have lacking support etc. is quite frusterating for a customer. Especially when it happens again and again and again.

Then you should stop buying games. And movies. And watching television commercials. And looking at ad posters. Advertising and marketing is everywhere. You would probably do better if you tempered your expectations a bit, because marketing isn't going away anytime soon. Hope for the best, but expect something a little more reasonable, and realize that you have to take some responsibility for your own purchasing decisions. Companies can tempt you and promise things and say all the nice things, but ultimately, you are the only one who can make the decision to buy or not buy.

As you probably understand I do understand that EA is a company that needs to make money just as pretty much every other company out there do. Including the company that I am working for. But in these big soulless companies there are people that actually are proud of what they do and want to make a great product for their customers. What I hope for is for that passion to shine through even though the company as a whole needs to make as much money as possible. But that's what I, in many cases, am missing from EA. All I see is the urge to make more money.
But I guess that maybe I am a bit naïve on this point. The company I am working for has this central idea that a happy customer wants to come back and if you do a good enough job that customer might even recommend you to their friends. This is communicated as more important than high profit margins within my company. But I guess that is a rare trait within big companies.

Anyway, I appreciate having a civilized and mature discussion with you. It's always great to have constructive discussions with people that have different views than oneself. 

[Xewaka]

Ninja Stan wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

Eternal Napalm wrote...
Talk is cheap. EA can release whatever press releases they want. It doesn't hold any weight. Action does. 

This goes both ways though. They keep making money out of the practices the loudest consumers in the internet so vitriollicaly criticize. That means people keep spending on it.

That could mean that some people actually like EA's games and/or don't hate them or the company enough to stop buying from them. You can only complain about something for so long before realizing that, since companies keep doing it, it must be working somehow.
Don't worry, I feel the same way about Nickelback. Don't like 'em, but they're super popular, so a lot of someones around the world must like them.

Oh, I didn't mean to imply there aren't people satisfied with EA products. What I meant to say is that usually the people who complain the loudest are also spending the money, which is counterproductive of their stated goals.
Me particularly, I haven't bought a single game through Origin. Not because it is the devil, but because, to put it bluntly, I'm not spending 60+$ in a game when, if I have a little patience, I can get them for a quarter (or less) of that in Steam.
EDIT: And before someone points out the Mass Effect 3 Tag by my name, note I said "through" Origin. I bought ME3 retail, about a two weeks after release, based on schadenfreude and morbid curiosity: I had to experience in my own skin the terribad endings everyone were railing on about. Incidentally, it also solified my choice of never preorder, never buy right at release, but wait for reviews and sales.

Modifié par Xewaka, 11 avril 2013 - 11:56 .

[spacehamsterZH]

Since the other thread got locked, I'll post this here again because I kinda wanted to get it off my chest.

The way they're blaming homophobes is especially funny if you look at it in the context of what BW (I think it was Casey Hudson, but I'm not sure anymore) said about why there's no m/m homosexuality in ME2. A lot of people suspected it was because they didn't want to offend the shooter crowd, many of whom are homophobic adolescent boys. BW insisted that Mass Effect was somehow different in some substantial way from Dragon Age that meant Commander Shepard couldn't be gay, and sexing an Asari didn't count, blah blah. Along comes ME3, and suddenly we're a-ok with male homosexuality, both for Shepard and many other characters.

[Inappropriate comments removed.]

Modifié par Ninja Stan, 12 avril 2013 - 06:08 .

[Farbautisonn]

I cant say Im surprised that EA won the second year running too. I wont be surprised if they nail year three either.


My main beef with EA is and remains that EA will shop a company for its IP and then apply its business methods upon it. That effectively milks the IP to a point where it becomes a mere shade of itself. And in some cases an outright perversion.

Its not really a secret that EA does this. Its not really a secret that this modus operandi is what has generated the outright dislike or even hate of EA, from the players who remember names such as Bullfrog and Westwood. And when you see that the IPs you love are being watered out, milked down or outright perverted, you become offended.

And then when you have an EA exec more or less tell you that you are an immature, unintelligent, uncultred, infantile bipedal carbon based organism,  (PM's messege is just one in a long line of these spin and PR disasters), you grow even more offended.

Like it or not, the general perception  is that whenever EA takes over, the quality and direction of the games that used to be great, starts to tumble downhill. Unless EA does something about this perception, they wont ever escape their reputation. 

Since EA wont listen, I wont buy their products. Only reason why I did started buying EA products again, was that Bioware was now an EA label.  After several "debacles" I can go back to that principle. Not because I have any particular animosity againt corporate america and capitalism, or because Im homophobic, racist or like a particular scripture too much. But because I simply dont agree with EA's business strategy and I dont like their products.

So why not leave the boards you ask? 

Because I have gotten more entertainment from the boards and the inept spin and damage controll attempts here, than I have from their recent releases. So. Im maximizing the bang for the bucks allready paid. Something EA should comprehend quite nicely.

[Wulfram]

I think the easiest way for me to show my problem with Mr Moore's blog is this.

[ntrisley]

DinoSteve wrote...

wow just wow, maybe EA just start thinking about cleaning itself up.

Or maybe the morons voting for them can get some perspective from their mother's basement and realize that there are far, far, far more despicable practices being committed by businesses which are not responsible for video games.

[Burnham1]

I don't understand why some people find it so hard to believe they beat out companies like Bank of America. Millions of people experience EA's games. Of those millions, hundreds of thousands (if not over 1 million by now) have been upset over one of their favorite gaming franchises being turned into a product they hate, with Mass Effect 3, Sim City, and Dead Space 3 being the headliners.

Not everyone who uses Bank of America's services had their home re-possessed on them or directly know someone who was hurt by that company. It is hard to feel empathy for people you don't know even if you know the action occurs. Apple may use terrible labor practices in China, but most people either don't know or their concern ends up only being, "that is terrible, I'm going to make a post on facebook about it through my iPhone 5".

People care more about something that directly affects them then something they hear about on TV. So while experiencing the endings to Mass Effect 3 isn't as bad as losing your home, the majority of people voting on such polls didn't lose their home and therefore don't have that strong emotional connection.

You can try to say people should be more empathic towards complete strangers, but it won't happen. People always have, and always will be more emotional towards things that directly affect them over things that don't. It may not be the way it should be, but it is the way it is, and that shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

[In Exile]

Xewaka wrote...
This goes both ways though. They keep making money out of the practices the loudest consumers in the internet so vitriollicaly criticize. That means people keep spending on it.

EA had a bad run last summer. Their share price was at an atrocious level, though I suppose that might have been TOR tanking. They haven't recovered from '08 (but the industry hasn't either). 

[N7 Banshee Bait]

So all you guys that think EA is the worst video game company have never played all those garbage games that end up in the $10 bin within a couple weeks? There are tons of games that suck so bad that you probably never even heard of them. Like low budget direct to dvd movies. I seriously doubt that EA is anywhere near the "worst".

Modifié par N7 Banshee Bait, 11 avril 2013 - 03:22 .

[viper_veteran]

1.
Is correct you can tell when a company's only objective is to make money. Whilst being fundamentally true for most companies you can tell when the main concern is to give the consumers the best experience they have ever had. In that circumstance they know they will get money because they make a good product so they don't have to worry about releasing games whilst the hype is about, thus meaning they take their time to present a product that gives consumers the best experience.

2.
Again true. If for EA loves DLC why do they have to release yearly full priced sports games when the could just update the base game through DLC. Secondly if there are no material costs, postage and any other cost associated with buying a hard copy of a game why do the digital versions of their games in many instances cost more than the hard copy (£59.99 for digital and £39.99 for hard copy).

3.
True I have had bad experiences with customer service too. I have contacted them through both phone and email. They have never replied to my email and when I actually managed to get someone on the phone they said that they would contact me and to this day no contact has been made.