199 réponses à ce sujet

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Silfren wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Trust me, this is an indisputable fact:  If the alleged dangers of magic were as valid as the Chantry and its apologists would have us believe, then Tevinter WOULD be a smoking ruin,

Opinion and Assumption does not equal fact. so your saying it would be 100% in ruin instead of just parts of it. hard to know without details.

I actually have to back Sutamina on this one. The Black Chantry knows how to deal with the dangers of magic. They have a system, and only the most competent mages (thus the least likely to do something stupid) get to flout it.

There's nothing to back them up on, because what you say here was precisely my own point: My original quote was Trust me, this is an indisputable fact:  If the alleged dangers of magic were as valid as the Chantry and its apologists would have us believe, then Tevinter WOULD be a smoking ruin, and you can bet that we'd be hearing news from the other nations about having to deal with Tevinter's problems bleeding into the rest of the world.  It's also a given that the White Chantry would be bloody eager to use this information in its campaign against magic.  Yet it doesn't, and we hear of no such thing.  Same goes for Rivain's possessed seers.

My entire point was that Tevinter obviously knows how to deal with magic, because we know that magic is practiced openly throughout the city, not just within the walls of a Circle.  Since we also know that this means the Veil would be so thin as to be practically non-existent, it has to also mean Tevinter has vastly effective methods for controlling potential problems.  Don't forget, Feynriel tells us that magic is practiced openly in the streets.  I realize that Tevinter's culture favors the strong over the weak, but I don't think that translates into magic being used by a small minority of mages, so I figure that when Feynriel tells us that magic is practiced openly in the streets of Tevinter, it's practiced by a LOT of people.  Yet it is by all appearances whole and functional, despite what the White Chantry insists are the cataclysmic dangers.  I think it is as much due to magic's danger being exaggerated as Tevinter's superior methods of containing it.  You certainly don't see the White Chantry considering the possibility that they could learn by Tevinter's example of extensive magical research.  All you hear is "doom, doom, doom, our way is the only one that works!" 

But what I meant was that the Tevinter system is to a large extent the same as the White Chantry's. Apparently it's not as harsh, since I finally tracked down that Gaider quote and apparently the mages are allowed some freedom under the Tevinter regime that they have less of under the White Chantry. The fact remains they still have Circles, they still have Templars, and Circle membership is still an offer you can't refuse.

[Noctis Augustus]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Trust me, this is an indisputable fact:  If the alleged dangers of magic were as valid as the Chantry and its apologists would have us believe, then Tevinter WOULD be a smoking ruin,

Opinion and Assumption does not equal fact. so your saying it would be 100% in ruin instead of just parts of it. hard to know without details.

I actually have to back Sutamina on this one. The Black Chantry knows how to deal with the dangers of magic. They have a system, and only the most competent mages (thus the least likely to do something stupid) get to flout it.

There's nothing to back them up on, because what you say here was precisely my own point: My original quote was Trust me, this is an indisputable fact:  If the alleged dangers of magic were as valid as the Chantry and its apologists would have us believe, then Tevinter WOULD be a smoking ruin, and you can bet that we'd be hearing news from the other nations about having to deal with Tevinter's problems bleeding into the rest of the world.  It's also a given that the White Chantry would be bloody eager to use this information in its campaign against magic.  Yet it doesn't, and we hear of no such thing.  Same goes for Rivain's possessed seers.

My entire point was that Tevinter obviously knows how to deal with magic, because we know that magic is practiced openly throughout the city, not just within the walls of a Circle.  Since we also know that this means the Veil would be so thin as to be practically non-existent, it has to also mean Tevinter has vastly effective methods for controlling potential problems.  Don't forget, Feynriel tells us that magic is practiced openly in the streets.  I realize that Tevinter's culture favors the strong over the weak, but I don't think that translates into magic being used by a small minority of mages, so I figure that when Feynriel tells us that magic is practiced openly in the streets of Tevinter, it's practiced by a LOT of people.  Yet it is by all appearances whole and functional, despite what the White Chantry insists are the cataclysmic dangers.  I think it is as much due to magic's danger being exaggerated as Tevinter's superior methods of containing it.  You certainly don't see the White Chantry considering the possibility that they could learn by Tevinter's example of extensive magical research.  All you hear is "doom, doom, doom, our way is the only one that works!" 

But what I meant was that the Tevinter system is to a large extent the same as the White Chantry's. Apparently it's not as harsh, since I finally tracked down that Gaider quote and apparently the mages are allowed some freedom under the Tevinter regime that they have less of under the White Chantry. The fact remains they still have Circles, they still have Templars, and Circle membership is still an offer you can't refuse.

That's true. But the circle membership is just that, a membership. They don't lock up their mages. The circle in my understanding is more like a school and university. So... yeah the imperial chantry is very different from the chantry.

[BouncyFrag]

Religion in video games is serious business folks.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

ibbikiookami wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...


But what I meant was that the Tevinter system is to a large extent the same as the White Chantry's. Apparently it's not as harsh, since I finally tracked down that Gaider quote and apparently the mages are allowed some freedom under the Tevinter regime that they have less of under the White Chantry. The fact remains they still have Circles, they still have Templars, and Circle membership is still an offer you can't refuse.

That's true. But the circle membership is just that, a membership. They don't lock up their mages. The circle in my understanding is more like a school and university. So... yeah the imperial chantry is very different from the chantry.

That's not what I took away from the wording of Gaider's post. He said that the magisters control the Circle, who in turn control the Templars. So you're not free, you're merely controlled by more understanding overlords. Which is something, but on the other hand, this was in a thread titled "Why don't mages go to Tevinter?"

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

BouncyFrag wrote...

Religion in video games is serious business folks.

It's either this or doing my homework.

[RedArmyShogun]

ibbikiookami wrote...

RedArmyShogun wrote...

Enough of your lies Ibbi. The Qun is the one true path. You mages are but a lie causing as much slavery as the Chantry. All will be equal under the Qun...according to there station.

LMAO... Go back to rape people and then kill them. No need to do that in that necessary order though.

It is not Rape and Murder. It is physical Liberation, with the needed means to bring about new life for the way of the Qun. Then once they are free from the Tyranny they will know peace. For the Qun is Glory.

What do the Mages offer? Nothing but abominations and slavery, as they abuse the powers they have, powers that are created from crystals and lies. Once the Dwarven mines are made to produce Qunari Cannon there will be no need of "Mages" and the ilk they spawn and the people will be safe.

Then we will take aim at the cursed Chantry and its false God. The people live in ignorance paying homage to lords who have their titles only via birth and not merit. And the Elf Ghetto's will be swept away as all are equal before the Qun.

Sew your mouth Shut and Join us Ibbi as we walk the path together...or fall before your false gods as we salt the earth and purge Thedas of its ignorance.

Glory is found only in the Qun. Peace is found only by living by the Qun. All are equal to a purpose. All will be freed without exception. If that is Freedom from being alive, then so be it.

Modifié par RedArmyShogun, 13 avril 2013 - 01:29 .

[sandalisthemaker]

RedArmyShogun wrote...

It is not Rape and Murder. It is physical Liberation, with the needed means to bring about new life for the way of the Qun. Then once they are free from the Tyranny they will know peace. For the Qun is Glory.

What do the Mages offer? Nothing but abominations and slavery, as they abuse the powers they have, powers that are created from crystals and lies. Once the Dwarven mines are made to produce Qunari Cannon there will be no need of "Mages" and the ilk they spawn and the people will be safe.

Then we will take aim at the cursed Chantry and its false God. The people live in ignorance paying homage to lords who have their titles only via birth and not merit. And the Elf Ghetto's will be swept away as all are equal before the Qun.

Sew your mouth Shut and Join us Ibbi as we walk the path together...or fall before your false gods as we salt the earth and purge Thedas of its ignorance.

Glory is found only in the Qun. Peace is found only by living by the Qun. All are equal to a purpose. All will be freed without exception. If that is Freedom from being alive, then so be it.

'And the trend of you scaring the ****** out of me continues.'

Modifié par sandalisthemaker, 13 avril 2013 - 01:36 .

[Lazy Jer]

RedArmyShogun wrote...

It is not Rape and Murder. It is physical Liberation, with the needed means to bring about new life for the way of the Qun. Then once they are free from the Tyranny they will know peace. For the Qun is Glory.

What do the Mages offer? Nothing but abominations and slavery, as they abuse the powers they have, powers that are created from crystals and lies. Once the Dwarven mines are made to produce Qunari Cannon there will be no need of "Mages" and the ilk they spawn and the people will be safe.

Then we will take aim at the cursed Chantry and its false God. The people live in ignorance paying homage to lords who have their titles only via birth and not merit. And the Elf Ghetto's will be swept away as all are equal before the Qun.

Sew your mouth Shut and Join us Ibbi as we walk the path together...or fall before your false gods as we salt the earth and purge Thedas of its ignorance.

Glory is found only in the Qun. Peace is found only by living by the Qun. All are equal to a purpose. All will be freed without exception. If that is Freedom from being alive, then so be it.

"Sew your mouth shut..."?

"Freedom from being alive...?"

Lemme guess.  You're role in the Qun isn't as a salesman.

[RedArmyShogun]

Lazy Jer wrote...

"Sew your mouth shut..."?

"Freedom from being alive...?"

Lemme guess.  You're role in the Qun isn't as a salesman.

No You were on track. I am a salesman of the Word of the Qun as wrote by Koslun.  The members of the Antaam are the most effective ways of seeing the word spreads and that it is absolute. Why if you slam the door in our face and don't want to leave, then obviously you are an enemy to the body of the Qunari people.

sandalisthemaker wrote...
'And the trend of you scaring the ****** out of me continues.'

How so my brother? We are only here to Liberate you from Tyranny.

[sandalisthemaker]

RedArmyShogun wrote...

How so my brother? We are only here to Liberate you from Tyranny.

Liberation, eh?
You followers of the Qun are the biggest slaves of them all. 
A good old fashioned Exhalted March is what you need.

Modifié par sandalisthemaker, 13 avril 2013 - 02:04 .

[RedArmyShogun]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

RedArmyShogun wrote...

How so my brother? We are only here to Liberate you from Tyranny.

Liberation, eh?
You followers of the Qun are the biggest slaves of them all. 
A goog old fashioned Exhalted March is what you need.

And yet we still stand on your shores..as we will soon stand upon your throats Kabethari. Ataash varin kata.

[sandalisthemaker]

RedArmyShogun wrote...

And yet we still stand on your shores..as we will soon stand upon your throats Kabethari. Ataash varin kata.

Try as you might, heretic. 
It is you who will fall;  your false ideologies rendered useless before the wrath of the magisters.

[Lazy Jer]

RedArmyShogun wrote...

No You were on track. I am a salesman of the Word of the Qun as wrote by Koslun.  The members of the Antaam are the most effective ways of seeing the word spreads and that it is absolute. Why if you slam the door in our face and don't want to leave, then obviously you are an enemy to the body of the Qunari people.

Good to know.  I won't open the door in the first place.

[Noctis Augustus]

Lol...

Modifié par ibbikiookami, 13 avril 2013 - 03:12 .

[RedArmyShogun]

The Magisters have not beated us before, they will not now. Myths and Legends cannot break the Truth that is the Word of the Qun which armors us from false teachings, and guides us with a strong hand.

As to not opening the door. You do not understand. When we knock all doors open. Or those doors clearly had a faulty henge made by the poor dumb humans, and thus needs replacement.

Victory is found only in the Qun.

[Silfren]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

ibbikiookami wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...


But what I meant was that the Tevinter system is to a large extent the same as the White Chantry's. Apparently it's not as harsh, since I finally tracked down that Gaider quote and apparently the mages are allowed some freedom under the Tevinter regime that they have less of under the White Chantry. The fact remains they still have Circles, they still have Templars, and Circle membership is still an offer you can't refuse.

That's true. But the circle membership is just that, a membership. They don't lock up their mages. The circle in my understanding is more like a school and university. So... yeah the imperial chantry is very different from the chantry.

That's not what I took away from the wording of Gaider's post. He said that the magisters control the Circle, who in turn control the Templars. So you're not free, you're merely controlled by more understanding overlords. Which is something, but on the other hand, this was in a thread titled "Why don't mages go to Tevinter?"

Word of God nothwithstanding, I don't find it such a strange thing that mages don't flock to Tevinter.  It's part of the cultural fabric of people living under the mainstream Chantry to have grown up absolutely hating and fearing the Imperium.  Most of the population are Andrastian to some degree--look at Anders: he loathed the Chantry, of course, but he had internalized Andrastianism all the same.  This is going to be the case for the vast majority of people.  Which means most people will also have internalized an innate distrust of all thing Tevinter.  No surprise at all that the average mage isn't going to want to go there, although I'm sure some actually do, for whatever reason.

That said, I know that Tevinter has its own Circle and its own Templars.  But I question very much the idea that this means things operate that similarly to Circles elsewhere.  The bottom line for me is that Tevinter undoubtedly as far superior ways of controlling magic and safeguarding against demons, which the rest of Thedas could learn from*, since, again magic is practiced openly in the street, not only behind a containment wall---and from what we've been led to believe, the Magisters themselves don't apparently practice much in the way of restraint.


*And by learn from, I mean just that.  Before anyone tries to accuse me of suggesting that the rest of Thedas literally copy Tevinter's methods down to the last cruelty...I don't mean that at all.  But there's no reason that Tevinter's example couldn't be studied.

[Lazy Jer]

RedArmyShogun wrote...

The Magisters have not beated us before, they will not now. Myths and Legends cannot break the Truth that is the Word of the Qun which armors us from false teachings, and guides us with a strong hand.

As to not opening the door. You do not understand. When we knock all doors open. Or those doors clearly had a faulty henge made by the poor dumb humans, and thus needs replacement.

Victory is found only in the Qun.

I'll give the Antam cookies if they promise to go away and leave me alone.  Victory is found in baked goods.

[Last Thing You Never See]

The solution is easy. Let the mages police themselves and keep the templars around (But not oppressing or guarding) to hunt and imprison (Or kill) those who turn to blood magic or demons. Those who support the status quo or further oppression are no better than the slaver magisters in my opinion. The templars have created more death and misery than mages ever could.

[Jackums]

The Qunari belong in chains, serving the Tevinter Imperium, working as slaves and/or a military force in the fight to eradicate the Chantry and opposing nations and assert the Imperium's dominance over all of Thedas. The Qunari's already-mindless following of a dogmatic mandate, lacking any individuality or identity, makes them befitting of the role of subservient war conscripts, laborers, and servants. They'd fit right in, working at the feet of their superiors for the benefit of the greatest nation Thedas has ever known. Their lives would then possess some significant meaning, too.

Two birds with one stone. Humans and Elves would no longer be required and could be freed, with the more fitting Qunari taking their place, whilst the heretics that oppose the Imperial Chantry and Tevinter would be forced to submit. The Qunari that agree to renounce the Qun, or those that were already Tal-Vashoth, would be allowed greater freedom, choosing whether to become a soldier, laborer, or common servant. Those that are gifted with magic, the Saarebas, will have their abilities trained for use in war, or as healers. Those that refused to comply would be forced into positions deemed appropriate to their strengths, and those that insisted upon revolt and refusal would be executed. 

Modifié par JackumsD, 15 mai 2013 - 08:59 .

[Plaintiff]

The thread! IT LIVES! IT LIIIIIIIIIIIIIIVES!!!

Mwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Modifié par Plaintiff, 15 mai 2013 - 09:53 .

[Uccio]

Only good Qunari is a dead Qunari. *Thedasian proverb*

[Asdrubael Vect]

RedArmyShogun wrote...

The Magisters have not beated us before, they will not now. Myths and Legends cannot break the Truth that is the Word of the Qun which armors us from false teachings, and guides us with a strong hand.

As to not opening the door. You do not understand. When we knock all doors open. Or those doors clearly had a faulty henge made by the poor dumb humans, and thus needs replacement.

Victory is found only in the Qun.

pffff:lol:

Teth a maraas imekari. Basra vashedan ataash varin kata, anaan esaam talan bas saarebas. Ashkost say anaan taam Tevinter, asit talan kadan.Meravas, maraas shokra, panahadan.

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 15 mai 2013 - 03:48 .

[BouncyFrag]

The Qun demands that I post this pic again. Please disregard the feather pauldrons.

[JamieCOTC]

I think it was David Gaider who said he wished there were more middle ground mages in DA2, that they were not in love w/ the Chantry, but they did not succumb to blood magic either. And Dawn of the Seeker shows many such mages.

[Asdrubael Vect]

^
Dawn of the Seeker was a piece of sh*t, and Vega story too<_<

Modifié par Dark Korsar, 15 mai 2013 - 04:39 .