138 réponses à ce sujet

[Noctis Augustus]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Bfler wrote...

ibbikiookami wrote...

No, I think the opposite. It's such a limitating game, I think they should delete DAII from existence and make DAIII based on DAO this time.

I support this statement.

I heavily do not, espically now that I'm playing it again and getting reminded of why DAO's gameplay sucked so much. Also the terrible amount of bad and resued VA's, and their at times painfully stilted dialouge.

Why do people think that when I say "based on DAO" it will be a copy of it? I want them to improve it! Not taking things that were present in it like they did with DAII and still take a lot of steps back with the new mechanics.

Modifié par ibbikiookami, 10 avril 2013 - 06:03 .

[Sutekh]

Scelous wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Bfler wrote...

ibbikiookami wrote...

No, I think the opposite. It's such a limitating game, I think they should delete DAII from existence and make DAIII based on DAO this time.

I support this statement.

I heavily do not, espically now that I'm playing it again and getting reminded of why DAO's gameplay sucked so much. Also the terrible amount of bad and resued VA's, and their at times painfully stilted dialouge.

I support this statement.

I support neither. I'm dissenting. Don't you dare censor me.

[Jamesnew2]

Okay so, i'm coming from a different angle, just replayed a DA2 and in my opinion, it was good, it was on the right track to become a great game, but it just lacked foundations to build on, the game had an amazing soundtrack, character design was great in my honest opinion, and I hope the negative feedback doesn't affect these two things, what it needed was a bit of body, like from the beginning it didn't help the story was leaked from the demo...That was a rookie mistake, but what i was mainly thinking was Kirk wall and the environments, had they made them more populated and well pretty to look at and had no re-used the environments, then it would of been a vast improvement.

Hell i liked the idea of the family and each having their own houses, and the overall story line was somewhat flawed, skimping on aspects which really could of been developed such Alistair's involvement and the Quanari, i think they had buckets of potential but instead they kind of tried to rush 3 different story lines into 1 game, instead of 1 key story line that developed. What felt wrong was that very little impact from origins made its way through to DA2, combining that with the absence of decisions, hell the mage's had no choice but to be slaughtered..It felt somewhat like a kick in the teeth after all the build up.

In all honesty however, i'd love another game like DA2, just given the time and budget that it truly deserved, then i feel bioware could truly achieve another 10/10 game

[Scelous]

Jamesnew2 wrote...

but what i was mainly thinking was Kirk wall and the environments, had they made them more populated and well pretty to look at and had no re-used the environments, then it would of been a vast improvement.

You know, even amongst the people like myself who love DA2 much more than DA:O, I think you'll be hard-pressed to find anyone who doesn't have a problem with the re-used environments.  Those were pretty bad and lazy.  

Also, Orsino going all abomination was just absurd, as practically everyone agrees.  Those parts are definitely indefensible.  I mean, there is nothing subjective about them re-using the environments.  That's just bad.

However, I liked the three acts.  I also liked the fact that there wasn't some big bad dude in all three acts we were working towards.  I preferred the episodic nature.  It was a refreshing change; I'd like to think we've moved away from the whole "You need to reach the end and stomp on Bowser" gameplay.  Hopefully there will be more like that in the future.

[The Six Path of Pain]

hhh89 wrote...

The Six Path of Pain wrote...

ibbikiookami wrote...

No, I think the opposite. It's such a limitating game, I think they should delete DAII from existence and make DAIII based on DAO this time.

Tobi has spoken,and Tobi's word is law!

Will his words became law before or after he's going to get his ass kicked?

Nah I see Naruto and Kakashi giving him the Talk no Jutsu then switching sides before getting his ass kicked by Madara 

[FINE HERE]

Nothing. Please, don't make a repeat of DA2. Make an improved DA:O instead.

[Welsh Inferno]

Sutekh wrote...

I support neither. I'm dissenting. Don't you dare censor me.

Funny guy.

Point. Missed.

[Jamesnew2]

Scelous wrote...

Jamesnew2 wrote...

but what i was mainly thinking was Kirk wall and the environments, had they made them more populated and well pretty to look at and had no re-used the environments, then it would of been a vast improvement.

You know, even amongst the people like myself who love DA2 much more than DA:O, I think you'll be hard-pressed to find anyone who doesn't have a problem with the re-used environments.  Those were pretty bad and lazy.  

Also, Orsino going all abomination was just absurd, as practically everyone agrees.  Those parts are definitely indefensible.  I mean, there is nothing subjective about them re-using the environments.  That's just bad.

However, I liked the three acts.  I also liked the fact that there wasn't some big bad dude in all three acts we were working towards.  I preferred the episodic nature.  It was a refreshing change; I'd like to think we've moved away from the whole "You need to reach the end and stomp on Bowser" gameplay.  Hopefully there will be more like that in the future.

I actually couldnt of summer that better myself, dragon age 2 was a "Refreshing change" I generally hope to see a lot of the same aspects in DA3, and one thing i did admire was against Meredith in the final battle, although somewhat simple and kinda dull, i did love how the statues came alive, i felt that was very well done, tho the mechanics of the fight let it down.

Dont get me wrong, i did like the aspect of the three chapters, it was as you said, a nice change, however i wish they were a bit more filled out, like with a lot less continuity, i loved the story telling of varric, that was brilliant, but i wish some of the story telling had more impact on what happend  

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Ieldra2 wrote...

It is so refreshing to play DA2 after ME3. What DA3 should keep from DA2.

Thats it, thats the most absurd thing I have ever read on these forums.

I never thought this day would come.

[Sylvianus]

Ieldra2 wrote

There is no stereotypical feel-good morality the game smothers me with. .And I want them to keep their edges and not get streamlined for maximum player approval or some traditionalist moral message.

Oh God, I agree so much with this. I ****ing hate stories which give moral lessons or moral messages. Stay away from that crap.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 10 avril 2013 - 07:49 .

[Ieldra]

Scelous wrote...

Jamesnew2 wrote...

but what i was mainly thinking was Kirk wall and the environments, had they made them more populated and well pretty to look at and had no re-used the environments, then it would of been a vast improvement.

You know, even amongst the people like myself who love DA2 much more than DA:O, I think you'll be hard-pressed to find anyone who doesn't have a problem with the re-used environments.  Those were pretty bad and lazy.  

Also, Orsino going all abomination was just absurd, as practically everyone agrees.  Those parts are definitely indefensible.  I mean, there is nothing subjective about them re-using the environments.  That's just bad.

However, I liked the three acts.  I also liked the fact that there wasn't some big bad dude in all three acts we were working towards.  I preferred the episodic nature.  It was a refreshing change; I'd like to think we've moved away from the whole "You need to reach the end and stomp on Bowser" gameplay.  Hopefully there will be more like that in the future.

I agree with all this. I'm playing DA2 with an ultra-high-res texture mod and it looks really good in the modded parts. Add more people and the city would really feel like a city as well. I also liked the episodic nature of the story. It could've done with some improvement, but as a story premise it worked well and was refreshingly different. As for Orsino: odd how endings have so much WTF in Bioware games lately.

[xelander]

I'd support having 4 or 5 different personality voices/dialogue options. The colored icons actually remove the need for the dialogue wheel to be separated in left and right semi-circles, i.e. response and investigate/special response options. So let's not be limited to three options.

I'd very much like it, though, if we're not railroaded into sticking to the same personality dialogue options. I'd rather choose my baseline personality (for the purpose of banter/auto-dialogue comments) in the beginning of each act and be free to role-play thereafter.

The trademark BioWare morailty system (or personality in DA2) is a double-edged sword when it comes to role-playing. I'd rather have more freedom to role play than some kind of meter with penalizing mechanics. Choices should have consequences, but those should occur in the story, not in the dialogue wheel options.

Modifié par xelander, 10 avril 2013 - 08:00 .

[Ieldra]

DinoSteve wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
It is so refreshing to play DA2 after ME3. What DA3 should keep from DA2.

Thats it, thats the most absurd thing I have ever read on these forums.

I never thought this day would come.

Well, well, what have we here.... if you call my opinion absurd, the least you could do is give some reasons why you think so.

[ianvillan]

krul2k wrote...

bioware have done how many games with a voiced PC? 4? 3 mass effects an 1 DA

so the DA team have did 1 game with the pc having VO, dont you think that as a learning period for them, do you honestly expect them to get it perfect on there first go, for the DA team first game with a VO i think they did a hell of a job an the ppl ****ing well as i said they just pine for DAO2 an the sooner they realise that aint happening an either move on or accept it the sooner these boards will be a better place

But Bioware has also produced 4 games with the dialogue wheel that includes paraphrasing. After each game Bioware gets complaints about misleading paraphrasing and they say they have heard our complaints and will improve it for the next game, but the next game is just as bad with misleading paraphrases so is the next game and the next even with the DA team including a mass effect type colour coding.

So either Bioware is terrible at improving the paraphrasing or the wheel itself it a flawed system for dialogue heavy games. If after 4 games of using the dialogue wheel you are still getting the same complaints and all the supposed fixes to the wheel don't help then maybe it is time to stop clinging to features that don't work.

[Ieldra]

xelander wrote...
I'd support having 4 or 5 different personality voices/dialogue options. The colored icons actually remove the need for the dialogue wheel to be separated in left and right semi-circles, i.e. response and investigate/special response options. So let's not be limited to three options.

Definitely. I'd like an emotionally detached neutral option for a protagonist who always sees all sides of things and refuses to commit until every bit of information is known.

I'd very much like it, though, if we're not railroaded into sticking to the same personality dialogue options. I'd rather choose my baseline personality (for the purpose of banter/auto-dialogue comments) in the beginning of each act and be free to role-play thereafter.

This, too. I like my primary personality to be set at the start, influencing banter and autodialogue, but I also like to be free to roleplay specific situations differently. If that results in bad roleplaying by straying too much from the set personality - well, it should be my choice how to play my game, bad or not. I have no objection to being penalized for it in some way if I overdo it, but I want the option to exist. 

[David7204]

4 to 5 options of voiced and animated dialogue is a request that approaches ridiculous.

Modifié par David7204, 10 avril 2013 - 08:31 .

[xelander]

Oh yes - paraphrasing in its current form is not working at all. That was one of the major immersion breakers for me, especially in ME3. At this point I think it's better to risk the player being exposed twice to exactly what the protagonist is going to say (text first, then actual voice) than to have disconnects between intent and outcome approaching the ridiculousness of ME3 ones.

[Ananka]

ibbikiookami wrote...

No, I think the opposite. It's such a limitating game, I think they should delete DAII from existence and make DAIII based on DAO this time.

Zeldrik1389 wrote...

This!
Also I'm a fan of mages, and seeing how they turned them into crazy abormination-in-the-making in DA2 was a huge turn off to me :/ Worse, 2 out of your 3 possible mage companions are massive pain in the ass (only Bethany was acceptable, and yet she's either die (right at the beginning, or in Deep Road) or can't be use in most of the game ). New combat was mediorce. They tried to make combat faster, and more exciting, I can understand that. But the waves, and random trash fights are frustrating, and sickenly annoying :/
Personally I don't think companions were well written in DA 2, especially in comparision to DA: O. In fact, I had pretty unpleasant time talking to most of them. Of all possible companions, only Varric was interesting. Anders: a whiny, emo terroriist. Isabela: flirt / sleep with anyone / anything that move, and a walking collection of STDs =.=!
Merrill: A stupid, terribly stubborn, obsessive, socially retard blood mage. Sebastian: a preachy, boring as hell "wannbe". Aveline: typical narrowed mind "protector of justice" (I'm still fascinated with her "guardman can solve every problems" ideal.). Fenris: an Anime looking Mr Grumpy "Oh terrible things happen to me. Let me kill your ear with constant whining and b*tchin about mages. The only thing I think BioWare can get out of DA 2 is Learning from your mistake. Because DA 2 was a terrible failure of a sequel. Bad writing, bad gameplay, bad and
repeative areas, crappy cartoonist looking, and filled with shallow characters. Man they have lot of work to do in DA:I

Agreed.

Modifié par Annaka, 10 avril 2013 - 08:22 .

[Reikilea]

I played DA2 after i finished ME3 for second time. I god bored by DA2 right after the release and only finished it last year.

Even with the ending, ME3 is superior to DA2. DA2 had too many weird story directions, not interesting lead character who didn´t have to do anything after the end of first act, badly made personal story, companions who followed you without any real motivation, cliched one dimensional characters and especially man villain, illogical time skipping where nothing changed. And that atrocity called the third act..

Only thing I liked about DA2 was Anders. The guy who resolved the story.

So what´s everyone is saying,please learn from DA:O.

[Sylvianus]

Reikilea wrote...
  DA2 had too many weird story directions, not interesting lead character who didn´t have to do anything after the end of first act, badly made personal story, companions who followed you without any real motivation, cliched one dimensional characters and especially man villain, illogical time skipping where nothing changed. And that atrocity called the third act..

So what´s everyone is saying,please learn from DA:O.

+1000

Modifié par Sylvianus, 10 avril 2013 - 08:27 .

[Sutekh]

Welsh Inferno wrote...

Sutekh wrote...

I support neither. I'm dissenting. Don't you dare censor me.

Funny guy.

Point. Missed.

Oh no. I get your point. It's the same point that's been made again and again ad nauseam for more than two years. The one that says you're allowed to spew vitriol because it's Criticism and for the Greater Good, but if anyone disagrees and / or emits the slightest hint of being fed up with the constant repetitive negativity, then it's "Help, help, I'm being censored!" or pretty strawmen such as "Let me guess you want just positive things to be said about Bioware and it's games?", or calling diverging opinions "absurd". Which isn't at all trying to shut them up.

So, nothing new, really. If anybody tried censoring the DA2 detractors here, they must be pretty bad at it. I mean, two years.

[xelander]

I actually liked the DA2 idea of "fate is inexorable" vibe. The problem was that the execution was sloppy. They should have driven the point home with more quests and auto-dialogues of such nature and especially more in the Varric - Cassandra scenes.

Instead DA2 suffers from the same weakness as ME2 - strong characters and weak main plot.

EDIT :Speaking of characters - I'd really, really like it if we don't have a Merril/Tali archetype in this game. I think it can safely miss this rotation.

Modifié par xelander, 10 avril 2013 - 08:35 .

[Ieldra]

Just for the record: I don't want to whitewash DA2's flaws, many of which were mentioned in this thread.

I only wanted to say that roleplaying in DA2 is a great deal better than in ME3, that DA2's characters weren't turned into conventional good guys/gals in the end and that DA2 didn't smother me with its feel-good morality carried by unsubtle emotional manipulation. I would like those aspects to be kept of improved. I would like for DA3 to be more like DAO in several other aspects as well, and that includes some but not all NPC writing, but let's face it: there is no going back to the unvoiced protagonist, and that limits the variety of dialogue they'll be able to create.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 10 avril 2013 - 08:45 .

[Nefla]

There are some good things present in DA2 that weren't in ME3 like more than two dialogue options, the ability to role play and define your character to a much higher degree, much more interaction with companions in missions and otherwise, etc...I feel like each BW game is getting worse and worse. Each installment strips out things that were good about its predecessor in favor of things that I don't care about (cinematic conversations, more action-ish combat, etc...) or just plain don't want (multiplayer). When I played Mass Effect I remember thinking "I wish you could talk to your companions anywhere and have this large amount of dialogue" and when I played ME2 I was like "I wish thy had something new to say after each mission at least like ME1" by the time ME3 rolled in, you were lucky to get any dialogue choice (instead of auto dialogue) and you were forced into a character you had very little control over.

You get used to it and then you go back to the older games and you're like "how could they do this __ years ago and not today?" I was playing DA:O yesterday after not playing for like a year or so and I was just blown away by how much better it was than the newer games. The environments were detailed and helped set the tone of the story, I could talk to almost every NPC and they would have something to say rather than being a cardboard cutout with an 8 bit face. I had gotten so used to DA2 not recognizing anything about you that I was startled when Arl Urien's guards recognized the fact that I had armor and weapons, if I'd been dressed in clothes I could have snuck through. At this point I'm not even looking forward to any future BW games, if DA3 is better than ME3 and DA2 instead of worse, more "streamlined," more "accessible" etc...then it may restore my faith and make me like the company again, if not then I'll move on. I'm tired of vein let down.

Modifié par Nefla, 10 avril 2013 - 08:49 .

[David7204]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Just for the record: I don't want to whitewash DA2's flaws, many of which were mentioned in this thread.

I only wanted to say that roleplaying in DA2 is a great deal better than in ME3, that DA2's characters weren't turned into conventional good guys/gals in the end and that DA2 didn't smother me with its feel-good morality carried by unsubtle emotional manipulation. I would like those aspects to be kept of improved. I would like for DA3 to be more like DAO in several other aspects as well, and that includes some but not all NPC writing, but let's face it: there is no going back to the unvoiced protagonist, and that limits the variety of dialogue they'll be able to create.

Why is it a problem that the ME squad is full of 'good' characters?