138 réponses à ce sujet

[XX-Pyro]

In Exile wrote...

The Six Path of Pain wrote...
Example:I set up a sleeping gas trap,then using Dog(since he speeds up when he's in combat)I lure them in while my rouge remains in stealth mode.When the trap is activated and they fall asleep I come out of Stealth then start backsrabbing them,while the rest of my team comes out from where ever the hell you put them and start attacking from the front.I could also take this oppurtunity to cast a spell like Mass Paralysis to paralyze them when they awaken ...Though I will admit during some battles like the ones during"The  Battle of Denerim"traps don't really come in handy.So I guess we're both correct in a sense 

But what about that encounter couldn't be solved with (i) fireball mooks (ii) mass paralysis, (iii) fireball again?

Ha this is so true. Both games were pretty easy to be fair but if we're comparing nightmare I definitely had a lot more difficulty in DA2, probably for a variety of reasons (no arcane warrior specialization, no Prometheus' gift to man fireball spell, etc)

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

marktcameron wrote...

I was literally bored to death halfway through the da 2 campaign. You can not pay me enough to replay that game.

Half way through, I have to shake your hand for getting that far, I got an hour in and was like DAMN this game is dumb.


It is one of the worst games I have ever played.

[Noctis Augustus]

[quote]Scelous wrote...

[quote]ibbikiookami wrote...

*sigh* What do you dislike in DAO?

[/quote]

Well sir, let's start with equipment.  And I know people's opinions will vary wildly on this, but here are my own thoughts.  I'm 32 years old, and the older I have gotten, the whole "find better equipment" thing is less and less appealing.  The reason being is because it has really started feeling like busy work.  I search all the chests and I get five new weapons.  Okay.  Now I need to go to my inventory and scan to see which one gives the highest fraction of damage.  Aha!  This one does .000238 points more of damage.  Okay, now let me check my old weapon and the other new weapons against those of my companions. [/quote]

I'm neutral when it comes to that, there are more important things and I don't mind it.

[quote]That's been a huge element in RPGs -- WoW comes to mind, with its "+.000285 to Intellect" stuff.  I just find it dry, and soul-crushing, and busy work.  A good friend of mine likes the whole compare and contrast, so good for him.  But that's one reason I preferred DA2, and how I just had to buy companion armor upgrades.  My god I preferred that.  It was so much nicer.[/quote]

I dislike that. I prefer to be the one to change their equipment or at least there should be a mechanic in which their opinion should count. They could choose which equipment they like. But having the same equipment and upgrade it? I don't like it.

[quote]Oh, and people refer back to Baldur's Gate, and I didn't really have a problem with that, because I preferred the more basic "+1 sword," "+2 sword," over breaking down the weapon bonuses to minutiae.  So I liked DA2's gear options.[/quote]

Sounds reasonable, but there are more important things in my opinion.

[quote]As mentioned in that other thread you responded to me in, I also prefer DA2's storyline.  I like that it wasn't a run-of-the-mill "save the world" plot, and I liked the episodic nature of it.  I appreciated the change of pace.  I won't go more into that since I already made a lengthy post about all that.  And by the way, I think the idea of trying to conquer or destroy the world, as you suggested, sounds awesome.  That would be another plot to try out, not necessarily from Bioware, and I would love to see that in effect.  It's one reason why I kickstarted a certain RPG where the premise is trying to bring about the apocalypse.[/quote]

TAKE MY MONEY! I WANT THAT GAME!

[quote]I liked that the main character was voiced.  I wasn't entirely sure about the main character being voiced when I first tried Mass Effect, but I've really grown to love it.  The voicing really helps with the immersion, as it helps to make the main character seem more alive, versus just standing there, slack-jawed, telepathically communicating.[/quote]

I hated the dialogue wheel they created. It was so limitating and they actually didn't add options that were present in DAO. You had only three tones, neither fit my character, those terrible para-phrases and Hawke actually said things that I didn't want him to say all the time. You also had very limited choices of what to say... All of this ruined my roleplay! In the end Hawke was Bioware's character not mine. Unless they make a "The Witcher" type of voiced dialogue I want the silent protagonist back.

[quote]One of the biggest points of contention is the combat.  I remember when I first tried the Dragon Age 2 demo, before the main game came out, and I was put off by the ninja combat.  Hawke was flying around and twirling in the air, and I was just like, "What the f...?"  But, after playing DA:O and DA2 over again, DA2's combat has really grown on me.[/quote][quote]Obviously DA2 takes the extreme opposite approach, with characters swinging around Final Fantasy 7 Cloud broadswords at the speed of light.  It's the reason why I was put off initially.  But the tactics remained the same in DA2 -- I still needed to guard my mages, I still tried to flank, I still needed to manage my party's health -- but I found that I wasn't needing to pause every half a minute.  The tactics system was definitely improved in DA2, but that doesn't need to be unique to DA2; they could import that tactics system regardless.  However, the speed difference, the fact that I wasn't needing to pause, move forward, pause, attack, pause, really helped the flow of combat and helped to keep the immersion.[/quote]

I agree that a more fast paced combat is better but they exaggerated...
Exploding enemies and slicing enemies with broadswords? I mean
seriously? It needs a middle ground between DAO and DAII in my opinion.
Realistically fast paced.


[quote]I just replayed DA2 as an assassin, my first time trying that.  The visceral feel I got from watching Hawke frantically slice up enemies was great.  I also love the way mages use their staves -- it's very cinematic.  Compare that to DA:O, where they slowly, slowly bring their sword down.  Hit.  Slowly bring it down again.  The one thing I loved and miss from DA:O combat are the executions, when party members would slice off enemies' heads and such.  That was very enjoyable.[/quote][quote]I think that's a good word to describe DA2's combat: cinematic.  It's definitely more cinematic than DA:O, and I found I preferred DA2 because of that.[/quote]

I agree. I loved the finishing cinematics and hated the companions finishings being removed.

[quote]I liked how much cleaner and streamlined the ability trees looked.  I generally prefer more options -- more options are always better, I say -- but with the mages, there were certain spells in DA:O that just weren't worth using.  It was better to just cut them out.  And again, the ability trees looked much cleaner in DA2.[/quote]

I don't agree with you, I missed the mage's ability trees from DAO. And most importantly I missed the spell combinations so much.

[quote]The DA:O skills were mostly worthless, and a flawed attempt to add more depth.  I tried playing a poisoner in DA:O, and despite putting points into poison, I found I could manage just fine using the poisons I would find in loot.  Crafting really wasn't necessary.  Same with potions.  The one thing I did like from the skill tree was the stealing, as I enjoy stealing in video games.  Pickpocketing was nice.  But oh well.[/quote]

Sure but I still miss having the possibility of using those skills not to mention it adds to the complexity and immersion and those are very important aspects in RPGs.

[quote]Anyway, those are some of the things I preferred.  There's still more.  Also, I don't want to seem like I'm glossing over DA2's flaws, because there were very real flaws.  The repetitive, re-used environments.  My god.  When I recently replayed DA2, I was once again struck at how egregious and lazy those maps were.  God they were bad.  Also, the waves of combat, with enemies jumping from rooftops and coming out of sewers and popping out of bowls of rice; just blah.  Although replaying DA:O, I was surprised at how much wave combat was in DA:O, particularly with the deep stalkers.  So that was annoying as well.
[/quote]

I don't even use the "re-used enviroments" argument, everyone who isn't a fool can agree that it was preposterous and an insult to the fans. Yeah, the textures were basic and dull... and they didn't even bother adding more detail to the environments even though the game was limited to just a city.


Now think of those things you didn't like in DAO and replace them with the things you liked in DAII. Now what do you think?

Modifié par ibbikiookami, 11 avril 2013 - 06:17 .

[wright1978]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Dialogue:
Granted, DA2's dialogue is not as rich as DAO's, due to the limitations of a voiced protagonist, but re-playing DA2 after a two-year absence and after playing ME3 makes me appreciate it. I can actually roleplay! I have choices that illustrate the personality of my character, I have options dependent on what I did earlier. After the sparsity of choices and the character-derailing autodialogue in ME3 this feels like paradise.

Characters:
Also, the characters aren't railroaded into becoming stereotypical good guys/gals in the end. There is no stereotypical feel-good morality the game smothers me with. I want more characters like Anders! I want more like Isabela! Actually, I want more characters as compelling as most of the DA2 cast....and I want them to keep their edges and not get streamlined for maximum player approval or some traditionalist moral message.

I still hate DA2's re-used locations and enemy wave mechanic. I also hate its combat and I hope DA3 will give me a less insane version, but as for roleplaying - I've always said this was one aspect done well in DA2, and after ME3 this is all the more apparent! I only wish for less misleading dialogue wheel options (my eternal complaint) and a somewhat more serious middle personality option for my protagonist.

I wonder....does anyone else feel the same?

Not a huge fan of the overuse of the dominant tone. However dialogue is hugely better than the poor ME3 approach which damaged roleplaying. Adore the companions of DA2(especially Isabela), who are definitely the strength of the game.

Like you, for me the major issue is environmental(re-use of areas)/(lack of change). Last act feels rushed out the door too.

[The Six Path of Pain]

In Exile wrote...

The Six Path of Pain wrote...
Example:I set up a sleeping gas trap,then using Dog(since he speeds up when he's in combat)I lure them in while my rouge remains in stealth mode.When the trap is activated and they fall asleep I come out of Stealth then start backsrabbing them,while the rest of my team comes out from where ever the hell you put them and start attacking from the front.I could also take this oppurtunity to cast a spell like Mass Paralysis to paralyze them when they awaken ...Though I will admit during some battles like the ones during"The  Battle of Denerim"traps don't really come in handy.So I guess we're both correct in a sense 

But what about that encounter couldn't be solved with (i) fireball mooks (ii) mass paralysis, (iii) fireball again?

Ah now I see what you were trying to say.Hmmm the High Dragon,Gaxkang,Ser Cauthrien(1st battle),and The Harvester come to mind...Damn that Harvester fight 

[Renmiri1]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Dialogue:
Granted, DA2's dialogue is not as rich as DAO's, due to the limitations of a voiced protagonist, but re-playing DA2 after a two-year absence and after playing ME3 makes me appreciate it. I can actually roleplay! I have choices that illustrate the personality of my character, I have options dependent on what I did earlier. After the sparsity of choices and the character-derailing autodialogue in ME3 this feels like paradise.

Characters:
Also, the characters aren't railroaded into becoming stereotypical good guys/gals in the end. There is no stereotypical feel-good morality the game smothers me with. I want more characters like Anders! I want more like Isabela! Actually, I want more characters as compelling as most of the DA2 cast....and I want them to keep their edges and not get streamlined for maximum player approval or some traditionalist moral message.

I still hate DA2's re-used locations and enemy wave mechanic. I also hate its combat and I hope DA3 will give me a less insane version, but as for roleplaying - I've always said this was one aspect done well in DA2, and after ME3 this is all the more apparent! I only wish for less misleading dialogue wheel options (my eternal complaint) and a somewhat more serious middle personality option for my protagonist.

I wonder....does anyone else feel the same?

Yup 

+1,000

[Melca36]

As long as we don't have any more of this in DA3....I won't complain:wizard:







http://i1183.photobu...44.jpg:original

Modifié par Melca36, 11 avril 2013 - 10:30 .

[RynJ]

Wow, it's been a long time since I was on here. But I got bored and decided to check if there was any new info on DA3. Of course not.

As for this discussion, I would much rather have a game that played more like an improved version of DAO. I'm not going to sit here and criticize every aspect of DA2, because listing all my problems with it would take too long. To be honest, I've never made it past the second act. Not once. That's how much that game didn't jive with me.And I could tell you some details, but on the most basic level nothing about the game felt /right/ to me. I started out interested then gradually became more and more annoyed as the game went on. I couldn't pinpoint why at the time, but the game was not fun for me whatsoever. So I stopped. I will play it all the way through eventually, but only to prepare a file for DA3. So for me, the less DA2, the better.

As for the talk of the dialogue wheel, I'll bluntly say that I don't like it and find it limiting. However, it's obviously here to stay so I guess I'll talk about what improvements I'd like.

1. A neutral option that isn't sarcasm. Please.

2. A way to be brusque and frankly a douche in your dialogue....but still make the moral choices. I want to be a douche and still say 'yes' to a quest. In DA2 when you chose the not-so-nice path, the only way you could really do it was to say no to everyone asking for help and everyone offering quests. I want to be a jerk /and/ still take that quest. Basically I want to be a douche with a heart of gold.

[Renmiri1]

[RynJ]

If you're talking to me, then honey I didn't dislike DA2 because it wasn't DAO. I disliked it because it was, in my opinion, a bad game. I'm saying that if they were going to make DA3 an improved version of either two of those games, I'd rather it be DAO by a long shot. I actually hope they try to be innovative again, but this time not make a worse game.

[withneelandi]

Its odd, I think me3 is probably a "better" game than da2, i think me3 was a brilliantly made 3rd person shooter/rpg hybrid, the evoltuion of the combat system from 1-3 was astounding and the multiplayer, despite my scepticism was superb, the story had genuinely touching moments and generally I enjoyed the hours I put into playing it. Despite all that, me3 had one masive flaw, we all know what it is and there is no need to go over it again, but it was such a big flaw that I literally can't bring myself to play the single player mode, or for that matter make it through more than a few hours on any of the previous ME games.

In contrast, I think Da2 had a lot more wrong with it, something like 4 dungeons on repeat, combat animations so over the top as to make the game feel silly, an inventory system which didn't so much streamline the previous game as hack away at it with a rusty cleaver, lack of variety in weapons armour and quests. A cartoony art style that I just didn't enjoy and a whole heap of characters that felt more like attempts at fan service than attempts to make interesting rounded characters.

There were things Iiked, the "macro combat" was much better than origins but most importantly, despite a few shakey moments and a bit of a dodgy ending the story was good and as such i've actually replayed da2 countless times, despite thinking that its basically a 5/10 game.

What do we learn from this? I play bioware games for a story driven role playing experience, I can get a better combat in an RPG (dark souls, Dragons Dogma) better open world exploration (Elder Scrolls) but bioware makes game universes that I care about. If the story is compelling I'll forgive a multitude of sins, and Da2 certainly commited a multitude of gaming sins.

Still i've re played it over and over and over again (as I did origns). I probably think Witcher 2 and Dragons Dogma are "better" games than Da2 but i've never really picked them up again after the initital playthrough.

If bioware manage to keep telling a compelling story AND nail down the get the combat up to the standard of recent RPG's like dogma, give me exploration like Skyrim then I have serious worries for my career and personal relatinships.....

To be brutally honest though, I just want a satisfying narrative experience from bioware and that ,despite its many flaws, is why I replay Da2 and why Ilikely will never go near me3 again. The conclusion made the entire story feel worthless and for all its flaws da2 still made the journey one that I wanted to make again.

[Firesaber82]

withneelandi wrote...

Its odd, I think me3 is probably a "better" game than da2, i think me3 was a brilliantly made 3rd person shooter/rpg hybrid, the evoltuion of the combat system from 1-3 was astounding and the multiplayer, despite my scepticism was superb, the story had genuinely touching moments and generally I enjoyed the hours I put into playing it. Despite all that, me3 had one masive flaw, we all know what it is and there is no need to go over it again, but it was such a big flaw that I literally can't bring myself to play the single player mode, or for that matter make it through more than a few hours on any of the previous ME games.

In contrast, I think Da2 had a lot more wrong with it, something like 4 dungeons on repeat, combat animations so over the top as to make the game feel silly, an inventory system which didn't so much streamline the previous game as hack away at it with a rusty cleaver, lack of variety in weapons armour and quests. A cartoony art style that I just didn't enjoy and a whole heap of characters that felt more like attempts at fan service than attempts to make interesting rounded characters.

There were things Iiked, the "macro combat" was much better than origins but most importantly, despite a few shakey moments and a bit of a dodgy ending the story was good and as such i've actually replayed da2 countless times, despite thinking that its basically a 5/10 game.

What do we learn from this? I play bioware games for a story driven role playing experience, I can get a better combat in an RPG (dark souls, Dragons Dogma) better open world exploration (Elder Scrolls) but bioware makes game universes that I care about. If the story is compelling I'll forgive a multitude of sins, and Da2 certainly commited a multitude of gaming sins.

Still i've re played it over and over and over again (as I did origns). I probably think Witcher 2 and Dragons Dogma are "better" games than Da2 but i've never really picked them up again after the initital playthrough.

If bioware manage to keep telling a compelling story AND nail down the get the combat up to the standard of recent RPG's like dogma, give me exploration like Skyrim then I have serious worries for my career and personal relatinships.....

To be brutally honest though, I just want a satisfying narrative experience from bioware and that ,despite its many flaws, is why I replay Da2 and why Ilikely will never go near me3 again. The conclusion made the entire story feel worthless and for all its flaws da2 still made the journey one that I wanted to make again.

You sir, I liked everything you had to say.  You are right, past bioware titles, when the story was good enough we overlooked...or modded the flaws.

[Ieldra]

@withneelandi:
I'm finding out that DA2 gives me some of the important things I want from a game - as opposed to ME3 which gave me things I liked as well but skimped on the important ones. I hadn't gone back to DA2 for a long time because I hated the combat so much - the first game where the combat put me off of things I'd otherwise have liked. It's said that DA3 will have a mix of what was good in DAO and what was good in DA2. That, and the longer development time gives me hope. Whatever their flaws, no DA game has managed to disappoint me with its story and storytelling as thoroughly as ME3.