363 réponses à ce sujet

[Kinom001]

Survery...completed. Man, I hope this means that they're in the process of creating the next MP. I figure v2 of this experience has a strong chance being even better of an already great game.

[LeandroBraz]

Jos Hendriks wrote...

.... I'm seeing a lot of Ghost Hazard as a favourite in here, but only few elaborate on why beyond it looking pretty. Does the hazard make a big difference in how much you enjoy that particular level?

...

It's the hazard that most affect the way you play, in a really cool way. I like how in one wave you are playing it normally, then out of nowhere it start to rain and you need to rethink your strategy, hold areas that you aren't used to. It's the best hazard by far. Plus, Ghost have a nice layout and is a classic, one of the two maps offered on the demo...

[Mzzl]

Jos Hendriks wrote...

My personal favourite will always be Goddess. I just love the way the spaces in that level work out. My least favourite is Glacier mostly because I like levels with a bit more opportunity for longer range encounters. I'm seeing a lot of Ghost Hazard as a favourite in here, but only few elaborate on why beyond it looking pretty. Does the hazard make a big difference in how much you enjoy that particular level?
I do like how people end up on both sides of the fence on some of the levels, Hydra especially.


A couple questions that weren't asked in the poll but that I'm personally interested in knowing your opinions on:

- What are the primary elements that factor into your rating of levels? Suitability for your playstyle? Plenty of ammo/grenades? Defensible locations? Aesthetic? Gameplay variations like hazards?

- What if anything would you want to see more of in the future out of all the levels and elements in the levels? What do you want to see less of?

You probably won't read this after 13 pages, but I don't mind talking to myself.

I liked Ghost Hazard because it's a map where you're mostly outside and shooting long range when it's dry, but need to change tactics and move to indoors close quarters combat when it starts to rain. Either that or figure out how to survive without shields. I like hazard reactor for the same reason. Of the hazard maps, these are the ones where the hazard becomes a tactical element.

The vision impaired maps might have been more interesting if the monsters had been hindered by it too, so you could use poor visibility as a tactical element. I'm sure you all considered this, but that it turned out not to be feasible or unplayable or something, right?

As for your other questions:
Primary elements: 
- Aestetics definitely. I gave high ratings to the colorful "outside in daylight" maps, because I just happen to like that. Dark industrial has been over done in SciFi games in my opinion. I also really like the look of Sandstorm Dagger, even though it's barely playable.
- bugs and bad design: The seeming abundance of bugs (Rio) and presence of death traps (hack missions in london) prompted me to giving a low score.

See more of:
-  (much) larger maps, where you have to try to find the enemy as well as kill it. Perhaps maps that aren't the same every time, but contain randomly changing elements. I realize that this will make level and AI design much more complex, and the game was straining current generation consoles as it is, but perhaps the next game could feature something like this as it'll likely run on the next generation hardware.
- more varied missions.

See less of: 
- Bugs and exploits. The internet can be unreliable, that's just the way it is. Design to take that into account. Don't make players lose everything when their connection is dropped.
- The 'run for your life' button and the 'glue myself to the wall' button should be separate.
- The random store. Next time just regulate the store with pricing and availability or something, not random goodie packs.

That's it. everything else was predominantly ranging from ok to brilliant. Speaking of the while ME series, I liked the writing, the art work, particularily liked the characters and the imagined universe. The game play was ok.

[Lauro Baptista]

Favorite: Rio and London!!

[Jos Hendriks]

Mzzl wrote...
You probably won't read this after 13 pages, but I don't mind talking to myself.

Nope, I'm reading all of it. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. 

[doozerdude]

Voted Glacier down as hard as I could. Such an overrated map, it's no different than Rio in terms of cheap farming/exploits.

Fav ofc is Hazard Ghost. Pure greatness, with a double side of awesomesauce.

Modifié par doozerdude, 12 avril 2013 - 08:07 .

[DragonRacer]

Jos Hendriks wrote...

Mzzl wrote...
You probably won't read this after 13 pages, but I don't mind talking to myself.

Nope, I'm reading all of it. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. 

Jos, I apologize for the language I used in the survey when commenting on Hazard Glacier, but I still feel it was justified.

No hard feelings, though.

[MGW7]

The only thing you have to be carful of is development tunnle vision,

example, from what I understand, when developing the talon merc the devs working on and testing it thought of it as being very utilitarian, but when released was such a niche class that it was nearly unplayable,

I just want it so maps aren't exclusive to one playstyle, which seams to work during development, but utterly desroys the usfullness of a few classes, like how london was very sniper oriented, but left melee classes at a rather large disadvantage, but it isn't as utterly broken for said classes as it could have easily been (a few well desighned shortcuts and just enouph tall soft cover to get nice and close), so gets a pass (I enjoyed it as much for the added difficulty),

long story short, I want maps with equal parts reach and flexability.

I doubt you planned to add classes that couldn't use short cover when you designed the maps, but I feel the next games objectives should have 1  piece of cover tall enouph to shield a non raged warlord from snipers to some degree, assuming you will eventualy include such classes at some piont next game.

Modifié par MGW7, 12 avril 2013 - 08:27 .

[N7 ElusiveOne]

I take it Jos Hendriks does all the maps then? Pretty talented dude for sure. I would go on about how awful Condor is, but if the same guy who made it is also responsible for Hazard Ghost, then hes cool with me. I won't lie though, I only liked the visual change, as the rain itself eating my shields didn't make the match more exciting, it was just another thing to worry about.

If I could suggest, maps really need more foliage. The Prime Evil map from the Armax Arena is a perfect visual template on what my favorite map could look like. Also, rain makes everything better.

[Jos Hendriks]

ElusiveOneN7 wrote...

I take it Jos Hendriks does all the maps then? Pretty talented dude for sure. I would go on about how awful Condor is, but if the same guy who made it is also responsible for Hazard Ghost, then hes cool with me. I won't lie though, I only liked the visual change, as the rain itself eating my shields didn't make the match more exciting, it was just another thing to worry about.

If I could suggest, maps really need more foliage. The Prime Evil map from the Armax Arena is a perfect visual template on what my favorite map could look like. Also, rain makes everything better.

I cannot take credit for all the levels. Next to the fact that any level takes an artist or 2, an audio designer and QA next to level design, I've made/worked on all of the DLC levels. Vancouver and Rio were mostly done by other designers, and the Ghost and Glacier hazards were also done by another designer, but all the other DLC levels were largely mine. (including the edits to White and Glacier)

[Remix-General Aetius]

yeah I took the test, voted "crap" on everything and told them to mind more the main campaign than crappy multiplayer stuff

[FlashAK]

Jos Hendriks wrote...

ElusiveOneN7 wrote...

I take it Jos Hendriks does all the maps then? Pretty talented dude for sure. I would go on about how awful Condor is, but if the same guy who made it is also responsible for Hazard Ghost, then hes cool with me. I won't lie though, I only liked the visual change, as the rain itself eating my shields didn't make the match more exciting, it was just another thing to worry about.

If I could suggest, maps really need more foliage. The Prime Evil map from the Armax Arena is a perfect visual template on what my favorite map could look like. Also, rain makes everything better.

I cannot take credit for all the levels. Next to the fact that any level takes an artist or 2, an audio designer and QA next to level design, I've made/worked on all of the DLC levels. Vancouver and Rio were mostly done by other designers, and the Ghost and Glacier hazards were also done by another designer, but all the other DLC levels were largely mine. (including the edits to White and Glacier)

So we have you to blame for Condor?

Modifié par FlashAK, 12 avril 2013 - 08:47 .

[K_O_513]

TheGarden2010 wrote...

yeah I took the test, voted "crap" on everything and told them to mind more the main campaign than crappy multiplayer stuff

Shots fired.

[DragonRacer]

ElusiveOneN7 wrote...

I take it Jos Hendriks does all the maps then? Pretty talented dude for sure. I would go on about how awful Condor is, but if the same guy who made it is also responsible for Hazard Ghost, then hes cool with me. I won't lie though, I only liked the visual change, as the rain itself eating my shields didn't make the match more exciting, it was just another thing to worry about.

If I could suggest, maps really need more foliage. The Prime Evil map from the Armax Arena is a perfect visual template on what my favorite map could look like. Also, rain makes everything better.

Yup, Jos is a level designer... I am unsure if he did ALL the MP maps, but I definitely recall reading that he was responsible for a lot of the DLC MP maps. Also responsible for a few of the more nightmarish DLC MP map objective locations because we were all complaining about a lack of challenge.

Ahhhh, there we are, I knew I remembered asking him and he answered... here we go:

Jos Hendriks wrote...

DragonRacer wrote...

Jos,

I'd love to know what maps you created.

With the caveat that a lot of people work on each individual level, and on the design side some levels get worked on by several designers, I've had a majority stake in Hydra, Goddess, Jade, and London. I've also had a lesser part in all the other DLC MP levels.

From this old thread

EDIT: 'd by the fez-eater himself!

Modifié par DragonRacer, 12 avril 2013 - 08:49 .

[DragonRacer]

My advice would be to ignore the obvious troll.

[K_O_513]

I just want Firebase Condor and Firebase Dagger Hazard to both be dragged and dropped in the recycle bin and subsequently deleted.

[DullahansXMark]

Jos Hendriks wrote...

ElusiveOneN7 wrote...

I take it Jos Hendriks does all the maps then? Pretty talented dude for sure. I would go on about how awful Condor is, but if the same guy who made it is also responsible for Hazard Ghost, then hes cool with me. I won't lie though, I only liked the visual change, as the rain itself eating my shields didn't make the match more exciting, it was just another thing to worry about.

If I could suggest, maps really need more foliage. The Prime Evil map from the Armax Arena is a perfect visual template on what my favorite map could look like. Also, rain makes everything better.

I cannot take credit for all the levels. Next to the fact that any level takes an artist or 2, an audio designer and QA next to level design, I've made/worked on all of the DLC levels. Vancouver and Rio were mostly done by other designers, and the Ghost and Glacier hazards were also done by another designer, but all the other DLC levels were largely mine. (including the edits to White and Glacier)

I will confess, the degree to which you blocked off the center room in Glacier was actually pretty smart. Disregarding that it effectively got turned into a storage room, you left just enough of the room intact so you could still take cover in the doorway and fight off enemies in the hallway.

I wish more was added on, though. After seeing the modifications made to White, I was sadly underwhelmed by how Glacier was handled I also wish White had a different hazard, where it would be the exact same map as it was pre-Retaliation (Hazard only, the regular map would have your modifications), but the desks in the basement are on fire, so you can't take cover behind them

[MattH]

My favourite maps are Goddess and Condor. I personally don't understand the hate Condor gets, I really enjoy playing on it. I think the different spaces in it work great for all combat experiences. 

I visually think Goddess is beautiful. Both Condor and Goddess really suit the races they were designed for. I'd have liked Goddess to feel a little more of a war-zone though, particularly outside. 

Modifié par MH19, 12 avril 2013 - 09:34 .

[DullahansXMark]

TheGarden2010 wrote...

yeah I took the test, voted "crap" on everything and told them to mind more the main campaign than crappy multiplayer stuff

You are herein to be called "Kai Leng" by me from now on.

[DullahansXMark]

MH19 wrote...

My favourite maps are Godess and Condor. I personally don't understand the hate Condor gets, I really enjoy playing on it. I think the different spaces in it work great for all combat experiences.

I actually like Condor, too. The problem is that there are quite a few glitches surrounding it (most notably, you can't join a Condor game in progress).

[Sir_Alan_]

I spent a surprisingly long amount of time filling in the additional comments section and I guess Jos Hendriks is the unlucky person who has to read it all

I didn't talk about grenades but I guess now that you mention it, equal numbers in each box would be nice, it's annoying having to learn the location of grenade rich boxes. Some maps are obviously better for grenade users but I can't help but feel all maps should be just as playable, I don't want to have to swap kits just because there's already a grenade user and then leave the lobby because they don't change after the current match.

Something I may have not made as clear in the comments was that there should be more smalls maps that are fun to play, like Glacier and more big maps, as big as Rio (if not bigger) but not designed as stupidly.

[Dorick]

Hi Jos, I play a lot of games, Ive almost played this one's MP for 1000 hours now. I took the poll, though I think I messed up a few answers bc of the wording and the way the poll was set up.

I noticed the comment about the ladder, which is silly, ladders can be used as chokepoints vs the AI.

The maps that didnt feel right werent just challenging, they were frustrating.
Then there are maps like rio and white that ruined the fun if players could abuse camping points, these were too easy. The changes to white made it much more enjoyable, BTW.

1.)What are the primary elements that factor into your rating of levels?
The strategy Im going to run on that map, and how successful that strategy is.
Maps that dont have a clear strategy are frustrating. Maps where the strategy is to grind one corner of the map are horrendous. Games come down to manipulating/interacting with a system to receive a reward. When it feels I can do very little, either to win, or to avoid losing, I feel like that map(environment) is very boring. In a lot of maps, this interaction comes down to just deciding the position of my character, and gauging the position of the enemy (Are they flanking me? Do I have an escape route? Can i use a bottleneck? Where can I go to find appropriate cover?) Does this make sense? That's why the hazard on reactor is so fun, its adds a new, interactive element that becomes part of my strategy. The visual effects are more on the artsy side, I wont comment too much there, but I will say that a map that is fun to play on is more important than a map that simply looks "good". In the end, I should feel like I can "master" a map.



2.)What if anything would you want to see more of in the future out of all the levels and elements in the levels? What do you want to see less of?

-Please maintain high difficulties and big rewards, its exactly why I kept playing for so long.

-You missed out on creating a distinct mass effect feeling by not having a map inside of a ship in outer space. Perhaps a Geth themed map?

-Since this is a cooperative game mode, why dont you add a special bonus for doing something special on some maps? Remember shooting the little alien ship in asteroid? Imagine a map related monster that can be destroyed for extra credits.

-Consider creating an especially plain map. Think of the airship docks in star wars, no cover, simple colors, an upper balcony and a large floor. Sometimes a map that looks too busy can actually distract from the visual beauty and the feeling of the environment. Perhaps a plan map where you can lock up mobs to do testing on?

-Being able to setup and destroy defenses made by the players and the AI can add a special feeling to the environment. Consider a map where the cover can be raised and lowered by flipping a switch, or stepping on a button.

-Being able to troll your friends on hazard reactor was a big win, i hope we see something like that return!

---------------------

If you have anymore question, please ask.

Jos, I seriously envy you, I'm in school for programming right now and would hope to someday work on a game, but realisticly I probably wont.

Modifié par Dorick, 12 avril 2013 - 11:44 .

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

I love (almost) all the hazards. Mainly because they add a level of tension. As much as I hate being startled by it, there's something to be said for an abomination running out of the darkness on Hazard Giant. And for most of them, there's an added mechanic of some kind.

The only one I hate is Hazard Glacier.

I prefer to do the killing myself, instead of having a map feature do it randomly (and killing me a lot of the time, too.)