96 réponses à ce sujet

[Curzyfish]

Dorick wrote...

capn233 wrote...

Dorick wrote...

The debuff to armor might not be what you think it is. Cryo blast gives 25% to everything, but the armor debuff is toward armor defense. So if you are using piercing ammo IV, two piercing mods, or a projectile weapon like the ADAS, you are only getting the benefits of the 25% debuff. The debuff only lasts 5 seconds if you take AoE in rank 4.

I know what armor weakening is.  I also know that QFE is one of the few engineers that can easily benefit from Freeze Combo at the end of Incinerate 6...

And even with Claymore and no weight capacity in passive the CD's are reasonable on all those skills.

Yea, but to get the benefits of 6a in incinerate, you have to shoot one power, hope it lands, wait for the recharge, then fire a second move. Instead of all that, why dont I just get 100% more damage from incinerate by firing it twice? Because then I could take the extra 50% damage to armor too.
Edit: you are also stuck having to always use cryo blast if you want the damage bonus, whereas I can fire 6B and always get the armor bonus. 

I don't see hwo cryo blast is a waste of CD or time at all, especially when you look at how you played.  You would always take out shields first before using incinerate.  You may as well have had CB and just used that first, took out shields, then used incinerate.

[Psycho Mantis I]

I prefer the Lancer X and a 0/6/6/6/6 on her. Going with the Sentry Turret and skipping Cryo Blast and using the Adas Rifle on top of that is just.... :|

[Zjarcal]

I'd rather die than skip Cryo Blast on my FQE, 6/6/6/5/3 all day erryday.

Whatever works for you though, so long as you're having fun.

[Dorick]

Curzyfish wrote...

Dorick wrote...

capn233 wrote...

Dorick wrote...

The debuff to armor might not be what you think it is. Cryo blast gives 25% to everything, but the armor debuff is toward armor defense. So if you are using piercing ammo IV, two piercing mods, or a projectile weapon like the ADAS, you are only getting the benefits of the 25% debuff. The debuff only lasts 5 seconds if you take AoE in rank 4.

I know what armor weakening is.  I also know that QFE is one of the few engineers that can easily benefit from Freeze Combo at the end of Incinerate 6...

And even with Claymore and no weight capacity in passive the CD's are reasonable on all those skills.

Yea, but to get the benefits of 6a in incinerate, you have to shoot one power, hope it lands, wait for the recharge, then fire a second move. Instead of all that, why dont I just get 100% more damage from incinerate by firing it twice? Because then I could take the extra 50% damage to armor too.
Edit: you are also stuck having to always use cryo blast if you want the damage bonus, whereas I can fire 6B and always get the armor bonus. 

I don't see hwo cryo blast is a waste of CD or time at all, especially when you look at how you played.  You would always take out shields first before using incinerate.  You may as well have had CB and just used that first, took out shields, then used incinerate.

Because I get to take full fitness, and cryo blast wasnt necessary, obviously. I could skip turret and take cryo blast and cryo blast would still not be necessary, would rather have a decoy vs the geth. 

[stysiaq]

If the build works, I welcome it with arms wide open.

It sure will not be as effective as the Sentry-less - but if there is a way to utilise the Sentry Turret, I'm willing to give it a shot.

[Dorick]

Wow, so many critics. I guess video evidence that a build works really well isnt enough.

[Zjarcal]

Dorick wrote...

Wow, so many critics. I guess video evidence that a build works really well isnt enough.

A build working well doesn't mean it can't work better with an extra power at your disposal.

Or that just as you say you don't find cryo blast useful, others (myself included) don't find the extra fitness useful.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 10 avril 2013 - 06:45 .

[Dorick]

Zjarcal wrote...

Dorick wrote...

Wow, so many critics. I guess video evidence that a build works really well isnt enough.

A build working well doesn't mean it can't work better with an extra power at your disposal.

Or that just as you say you don't find cryo blast useful, others (myself included) don't find the extra fitness useful.

With the extra fitness, the prime needs two shots to break your full shields. That means the third shot will only bring you down to the health gate. I found the extra health very advantageous. Dont need cryo blast, just shoot incinerate twice. 

Modifié par Dorick, 10 avril 2013 - 06:48 .

[Innocent Bystander]

Just want to point out, that when using Adas, 5b in passives (headshot damage) is useless, as Adas can't headshot.

[Zjarcal]

Dorick wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Dorick wrote...

Wow, so many critics. I guess video evidence that a build works really well isnt enough.

A build working well doesn't mean it can't work better with an extra power at your disposal.

Or that just as you say you don't find cryo blast useful, others (myself included) don't find the extra fitness useful.

With the extra fitness, the prime needs two shots to break your full shields. That means the third shot will only bring you down to the shield gate. I found the extra health very advantageous. Dont need cryo blast, just shoot incinerate twice. 

And that's my point, I just make heavier use of soft cover due to my low shields for the sake of having a power I really like and find much more useful than a few more hitpoints (that I can gain back with a Cyclonic anyway).

Again, whatever works for you is fine, I'm not telling you that "you're doing it wrong", but I'll never support a build without cryo blast myself.

[Dorick]

Luyza wrote...

Just want to point out, that when using Adas, 5b in passives (headshot damage) is useless, as Adas can't headshot.

Thank you very much, I do so many of these build videos they can turn into a chore and I miss small discrepencies like that. I will add a not in the video. 

[Zjarcal]

Although the headshots are useful for the Hurricane.

[HolyAvenger]

CB is one of the best debuffs in the game. Pets are useless.


-15/10. Would not bang, would throw out of airlock.

[Dorick]

Zjarcal wrote...

Dorick wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Dorick wrote...

Wow, so many critics. I guess video evidence that a build works really well isnt enough.

A build working well doesn't mean it can't work better with an extra power at your disposal.

Or that just as you say you don't find cryo blast useful, others (myself included) don't find the extra fitness useful.

With the extra fitness, the prime needs two shots to break your full shields. That means the third shot will only bring you down to the shield gate. I found the extra health very advantageous. Dont need cryo blast, just shoot incinerate twice. 

And that's my point, I just make heavier use of soft cover due to my low shields for the sake of having a power I really like and find much more useful than a few more hitpoints (that I can gain back with a Cyclonic anyway).

Again, whatever works for you is fine, I'm not telling you that "you're doing it wrong", but I'll never support a build without cryo blast myself.

I dont know how often you platinum solo, but survivability is a lot more than just taking some soft cover. It usually comes down to whether you can run past a volley and live, as you kite enemies to a new part of the map. In other words, the part of the demonstration where you watch me hit health gate, I wouldve died without the extra fitness. As soon as I down, I reset the fight, since I dont allow myself to down in these demonstrations. If I consistently down, I know the character struggles with survivability, which isnt acceptable, since downing is akin to losing. Primes are especially dangerous, since they stunlock, their bullets home, and the trolldrone homes very accurately. 

[Dorick]

HolyAvenger wrote...

CB is one of the best debuffs in the game. Pets are useless.


-15/10. Would not bang, would throw out of airlock.

Oh really, which of these debuffs would you trade cryo blast for?

Tac scan (debuff lasts 26 seconds, can see through walls)
Snap freeze
Warp
Proximity mine
(what am I missing/)

So far I would prefer any of those debuffers over cryo blast. Even tac scan, cause you can see your target through objects, you can hit targets without leaving cover, it slows your target down 30%, and it lasts 26 seconds, meaning i dont have to waste dps recasting. 

[HolyAvenger]

Dorick wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

CB is one of the best debuffs in the game. Pets are useless.


-15/10. Would not bang, would throw out of airlock.

Oh really, which of these debuffs would you trade cryo blast for?

Tac scan (debuff lasts 26 seconds, can see through walls)
Snap freeze
Warp
Proximity mine
(what am I missing/)

So far I would prefer any of those debuffers over cryo blast. Even tac scan, cause you can see your target through objects, you can hit targets without leaving cover, it slows your target down 30%, and it lasts 26 seconds, meaning i dont have to waste dps recasting. 

 

As a pure debuff? Its better than PM, SF and arguably warp. The latter two are much more about comboing with other powers, and the first is lesser debuff but applies in AoE so its better for mooks but worse for bosses. Combine with incinerate's evo for extra damage on chilled targets and you've got a brilliant armour nuker. 

Specing out of CB is a huge mistake. 

[Curzyfish]

Dorick wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Dorick wrote...

Wow, so many critics. I guess video evidence that a build works really well isnt enough.

A build working well doesn't mean it can't work better with an extra power at your disposal.

Or that just as you say you don't find cryo blast useful, others (myself included) don't find the extra fitness useful.

With the extra fitness, the prime needs two shots to break your full shields. That means the third shot will only bring you down to the health gate. I found the extra health very advantageous. Dont need cryo blast, just shoot incinerate twice. 

You were using a cylo 4 and shield gear 5.  The prime would have needed the same amount of shots to bring you down to health gate whether you had full fitness or 0 fitness.

[Curzyfish]

Dorick wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Dorick wrote...

Wow, so many critics. I guess video evidence that a build works really well isnt enough.

A build working well doesn't mean it can't work better with an extra power at your disposal.

Or that just as you say you don't find cryo blast useful, others (myself included) don't find the extra fitness useful.

With the extra fitness, the prime needs two shots to break your full shields. That means the third shot will only bring you down to the health gate. I found the extra health very advantageous. Dont need cryo blast, just shoot incinerate twice. 

With a cyclo mod 4, a prime needs 3 shots to take you down to health gate whether you have full fitness, or 0 fitness.  Full fitness for a QFE is 330 extra shields.  So you'll absorb 1 or 2 extra shots from mooks and turrets and such, but if you are taking hits from one of those and you take all 3 prime shots, you are dead whether you had fintess or not.

[Zjarcal]

Dorick wrote...

I dont know how often you platinum solo...

There's a link to a FQE platinum solo on my sig that I did with only 4 points in fitness. I'm not just talking out of my ass, ok?

I already said that if you like the extra fitness, that''s fine, I just don't care for it.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 10 avril 2013 - 08:03 .

[Deerber]

I really don't understand why people keep trying to argue with this guy.

Here, do like me:


Yes Dorick, this is the best build evar for the FQE. Congratulations.


Move on, folks.

[Miniditka77]

Dorick wrote...

b00g13man wrote...

I dunno about skipping cryo blast. Yes it can work, but missing out on 25% more damage and the boost to incinerate is too much to ask me to give up.

Just go with the extra 50% damage on incinerate and fire it twice for "100% more damage" instead of firing cryo blast once and incinerate once. 

Because Cryo Blast + Incinerate takes half the time of two Incinerates, and you can probably Cryo-Incincerate-Incinerate and get 200% extra damage pretty easily.  Plus, Cryo Blast also increases the damage of whatever weapon you are firing within the time you're waiting for your powers to cool down.

I have posted before that I don't like the QFE and I think it's a pretty bad class.  Cryo Blast should be able to prime all targets for cryo explosions.  That being said, not taking Cryo Blast makes the QFE worse.

[Geist.H]

Not to nitpick or anything, but... The debuff only lasts five seconds? Five seconds is a LONG time in this game.

It's 8 seconds with extended timer perk.

Just go with the extra 50% damage on incinerate and fire it twice for "100% more damage" instead of firing cryo blast once and incinerate once.

It doesn't work like that.

Quoting an old thread:

- Data suggests that Incinerate does 75% of its base damage immediately and 25% of it as a DOT over the course of 3 seconds.
- Incinerate has a 1.5x damage multiplier against armor, no damage multiplier against health (despite the tooltip saying it does heavy damage to health AND armor; let's hear it for patently lying tooltips)
- Incinerate has a 50% damage penalty against shields and barriers.
- Incinerate Evolution 6 is a 1.5x damage multiplier (not an additive bonus) against armor, giving Incinerate a total of a 2.25x damage multiplier against armor.

Let's ignore the whole Impact/DoT thing.

Damage: 544.5 (health) 272.25 (shield) 272.25 (barrier) 1225.13(armor) with full power perk, aoe and armor perk incinerate according to Narida builder.

Now let's see with Freeze combo:

Damage: 544.5/272.25/272.25/816.75 with the same setup and no chill/freeze.
= 330/165/165/495 (base value)
+20% (66/33/33/99) Incinerate 3
+10% (33/16.5/16.5/49.5) Quarian Defender 1
+10% (33/16.5/16.5/49.5) Quarian Defender 3
+10% (33/16.5/16.5/49.5) Quarian Defender 4
+15% (49.5/24.75/24.75/74.25)

Base damage increase from Cryo Blast:

+25% (82,5,/41,25/41,25/123,75)

Total: 627/313,5/313,5/940,5

Freeze combo is multiplicative:

Add 100%

1254/627/627/1881

2 armor perk incinerate: 2450,26
2 freeze combo: 3762

You get the rough picture, Armor perk cannot come even close. Whatever DPS was lost casting CB is compensated for by a 25% DPS increase on your weapon.

The problem is not that Op's build /isis not working, the problem is that he is misinforming people about Cryo Blast capabilities.

If he wants to nerf his own damage output for no reason, who cares.

Modifié par Geist.H, 10 avril 2013 - 07:29 .

[NYG1991]

Wouldn't it also work to skip cryo blast and just put cryo ammo on the Adas? Get the best of both worlds?

I'm a fellow cryo blast skipper, I just use the lancer and spam incinerate at everything while flame turret mops up. Burn them all!!!

[Geist.H]

Wouldn't it also work to skip cryo blast and just put cryo ammo on the Adas? Get the best of both worlds?

That's a possibility, but you might as well keep your 50% extra weapon damage from Incendiary ammo and 25% CB increase, which cryo ammo dont have.

Also FE > CE.

[UnknownMercenary]

With regards to the turret, I think 4 points is more than enough just to get the shock ability.