237 réponses à ce sujet

[thegreateski]

Evil in the same way a gun is evil.

[Frozeal]

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

StrikeSaber47 wrote...
You can think of Blood Mage the equivalent to Necromancy in other dark fantasy RPG's (like Morrowind and Oblivion).

Grrrm..nahhhh.   I can't agree with that.  Necromancy involves the dessecration of corpses which in every human civilization is considered just plain wrong.   You can say "I summoned forth these zombies t defeat the bad guy" but somene is going to say "Dude, that one up front is my dead mother".

Blood magic is simply using blood to fuel magic, you can choose not to control minds (usually considered to be uncool) or sumon demons or whatever and nobd can come and pint to something you hav done and scream "Dude...EVIL"

And the problem arrises when people with low will fall prey under the demon's power... and come to think of it, demons fuel its power from our own emotions. Blood magic is like... the quantum mechanics of magic, you can not just go in there with Pythagoras' theorem and espect to pwn.

[zartan88]

Blood magic is also very powerful - which is why I think that the Chantry freak out about it, I've used it to deadly effect against the Darkspawn so is it evil? I thinks so, seeing on how it is learned, and the effect it has, such as mind control and the ablity to heal yourself by stealing the life out of your allies!



But at the same time I've only used it to defeat the darkspawn, umm.

[Sloth Of Doom]

zartan88 wrote...

Blood magic is also very powerful - which is why I think that the Chantry freak out about it, I've used it to deadly effect against the Darkspawn so is it evil? I thinks so, seeing on how it is learned, and the effect it has, such as mind control and the ablity to heal yourself by stealing the life out of your allies!

But at the same time I've only used it to defeat the darkspawn, umm.

People are really hung up on this "how you learn it" thing.


Just because the PC learns it that way does NOT man that it is the only way to learn it.  In fact, assuming that the only way to lean it that way makes very little sense, since not many peple are put into a position to have that type of leverage.

[Frozeal]

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

zartan88 wrote...

Blood magic is also very powerful - which is why I think that the Chantry freak out about it, I've used it to deadly effect against the Darkspawn so is it evil? I thinks so, seeing on how it is learned, and the effect it has, such as mind control and the ablity to heal yourself by stealing the life out of your allies!

But at the same time I've only used it to defeat the darkspawn, umm.

People are really hung up on this "how you learn it" thing.


Just because the PC learns it that way does NOT man that it is the only way to learn it.  In fact, assuming that the only way to lean it that way makes very little sense, since not many peple are put into a position to have that type of leverage.

Remember that in the Mage origins First Enchanter Irwin tells us about some Blood Magic books that were in the library free to be used.

[Sloth Of Doom]

Frozeal wrote...

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

zartan88 wrote...

Blood magic is also very powerful - which is why I think that the Chantry freak out about it, I've used it to deadly effect against the Darkspawn so is it evil? I thinks so, seeing on how it is learned, and the effect it has, such as mind control and the ablity to heal yourself by stealing the life out of your allies!

But at the same time I've only used it to defeat the darkspawn, umm.

People are really hung up on this "how you learn it" thing.


Just because the PC learns it that way does NOT man that it is the only way to learn it.  In fact, assuming that the only way to lean it that way makes very little sense, since not many peple are put into a position to have that type of leverage.

Remember that in the Mage origins First Enchanter Irwin tells us about some Blood Magic books that were in the library free to be used.

If you dig around the Circle Tower there is tons of info on blood magic either lying around or carefully hidden.  None of it has anything to do with the way the PC learns it.  I don't think (spoiler) managed to pull off the PC method right under the eyes of the Circle AND the Templars.  He just isn't that smart.

Modifié par Sloth Of Doom, 15 janvier 2010 - 07:34 .

[addiction21]

If blood magic is evil then pencils make spelling errors (I know it had been said)

[Frozeal]

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

Frozeal wrote...

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

zartan88 wrote...

Blood magic is also very powerful - which is why I think that the Chantry freak out about it, I've used it to deadly effect against the Darkspawn so is it evil? I thinks so, seeing on how it is learned, and the effect it has, such as mind control and the ablity to heal yourself by stealing the life out of your allies!

But at the same time I've only used it to defeat the darkspawn, umm.

People are really hung up on this "how you learn it" thing.


Just because the PC learns it that way does NOT man that it is the only way to learn it.  In fact, assuming that the only way to lean it that way makes very little sense, since not many peple are put into a position to have that type of leverage.

Remember that in the Mage origins First Enchanter Irwin tells us about some Blood Magic books that were in the library free to be used.

If you dig around the Circle Tower there is tons of info on blood magic either lying around or carefully hidden.  None of it has anything to do with the way the PC learns it.  I don't think (spoiler) managed to pull off the PC method right under the eyes of the Circle AND the Templars.  He just isn't that smart.

Agree, and also Irwin knew what was happening.

[4bs.zer0]

Sloth Of Doom wrote...
People are really hung up on this "how you learn it" thing.

Just because the PC learns it that way does NOT man that it is the only way to learn it.  In fact, assuming that the only way to lean it that way makes very little sense, since not many peple are put into a position to have that type of leverage.

No no no. It's only evil on your first playthrough. :-)

[Wompoo]

Not even evil on your first play through, save... agree... unlock... reload game... continue the game as a compliant chantry puppet and a suicidal slab of meat.

[Godak]

Blood Mages are Neutral Neutral.



So is everyone else in Thedas.

[Herr Uhl]

4bs.zer0 wrote...

Sloth Of Doom wrote...
People are really hung up on this "how you learn it" thing.

Just because the PC learns it that way does NOT man that it is the only way to learn it.  In fact, assuming that the only way to lean it that way makes very little sense, since not many peple are put into a position to have that type of leverage.

No no no. It's only evil on your first playthrough. :-)

Sad thing that this is a non-spoiler forum, so shan't use any examples.

The problem is that it seems demons swarm like flies to honey with magi, and even more so with blood magi. Though, if all blood magi became abominations, the Tevinter Imperium would have had a much harder time.

[RangerSG]

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

KatzBlackblade wrote...

One thing is that you have to consort with demons to gain Blood Magic. That makes it definitively evil...
Now that doesn't mean you can't use evil powers for good. Look at Ghost Rider...

Nowhere does it say you have to consort with demons to learn blood magic.  Do you think (spoiler) was in any position to talk to a demon when he was locked up for years in the mages tower?

Actually it DOES say in the description of the class that blood magic can only be learned from demons. And yes, characters in the Tower can converse with demons still. The books were left in the library.

That said, there's a very important personage in the game who does not share the blood magic= evil thinking. But the location of that discussion is a spoiler. And really with a topic like this that revolves around in game decisions, lore and consequences, it should be in the spoiler section, IMHO.

[FTA Talisman]

Frozeal wrote...

The chantry is one of the most evil organizations that exists in Ferelden, I mean they are pure social control, not any diferent from religion in our times, it institution mess with weak people's conciousness. I agree with most of the things that Morrigan says.
Also, Gray Wardens don't have a philosophy of the end justify the means, for example they are supposed to be politically neutral (although as you can see in Warden's Peek it hasn't be that way, also *spoiler* it's obvious that Duncan was also interested in messing up in politics *end spoilers*
Blood magic is just that, primal magic can do more instant harm than blood magic... tempest of the century to the ships that are carrying medicine, blizzard to the crops... just think of it.

While you do make some valid points, I can not not agree that Primal Magic is more dangerous then Blood Magic. Primal Magic can cause more immediate harm, as you said, by any mage of pretty much any skill level, which I guess could justify it being more dangerous. But Blood Magic, when/if used correctly can be much more devastating. Imagine, if you will, a mage controlling the mind of a Kind or Emperor then using his/her influence to wage war upon a neighboring country? Maybe even conquering it and thus continuing there campaign of blood and cruelty. Though this would be a case of Blood Magic taken to the extreme and is exagerated, it could still occur, if the Magisters of the Tevinter Imperium could enter Heaven then I'm sure someone could gather resources and knowledge enough to dominate the mind of a King.
The Grey Wardens do what it takes to defeat Darkspawn and end the Blight. Though this may mean sacrificing yourself, physically/spiritually/mentally, they will still throw themselves upon it. Though I do not know how far a Grey Warden would be willing to take it, but I imagine they would take it pretty far considering the alternative (which would be the complete destruction of Humans, Elves etc.).

[Sloth Of Doom]

Any magician can feel the lure of the dark blood magic. These dark rites, which were originally taught by demons,
tap into the power of life force and to give the magician access to
powerful blood magic.This power, however, demands a price; a Blood Mage must be willing to sacrifice his own life force or that of allies, in order to be able to use this dark magic. Blood Mage is a specialization of the mage class.



Originally.

[Herr Uhl]

Sloth Of Doom wrote...

Any magician can feel the lure of the dark blood magic. These dark rites, which were originally taught by demons,
tap into the power of life force and to give the magician access to
powerful blood magic.This power, however, demands a price; a Blood Mage must be willing to sacrifice his own life force or that of allies, in order to be able to use this dark magic. Blood Mage is a specialization of the mage class.

Originally.

Nah, I think that you can only learn magic by chatting up an old god too.

[cheesemage]

If you look throughout the game, you will find that blood magic truly isn't as uncommon as the Chantry would lead you to believe.

The two most notable examples would be how the Templars track apostates, phylacteries filled with the mage's blood. Considering that this employs both blood and magic, this has to be an intentional irony on the writer's part to have the mechanism through blood mage's are tracked is through a form of blood magic.

The other notable instance of blood magic that isn't any sort of spoiler is the Joining. The Joining requires both the blood of darkspawn as well as lyrium, a mage's participation in preparing the ritual is required on some level. Again, the usage of blood and magic does once again reveal it quite tellingly as a practice of blood magic.

Now neither of these examples of usage of blood magic pose the same sort of societal risk that a mage capable of controlling the minds of others does, but it does show a certain utility of the discipline, that even a culture that is entirely hostile to the notion of blood magic still cannot divorce itself entirely from the practice.

What does this mean? Well, clearly blood magic is a tool that can be used for many things, but it doesn't mean an unusually informed pointing to the Grey Wardens as proof of the good blood magic can do is going to have to much success in winning that (presumably very short) argument.

Modifié par cheesemage, 15 janvier 2010 - 08:23 .

[JaegerBane]

zartan88 wrote...

Blood magic is also very powerful - which is why I think that the Chantry freak out about it, I've used it to deadly effect against the Darkspawn so is it evil? I thinks so, seeing on how it is learned, and the effect it has, such as mind control and the ablity to heal yourself by stealing the life out of your allies!

But at the same time I've only used it to defeat the darkspawn, umm.

Precisely. The main reason the Chantry brand it evil is it's powerful and not under their control. No priest no matter how charismatic can control blood magic and therefore the chantry decrees it to be the great satan.

Ultimately, blood magic is simply another form of magic which happens to be risky to cast, requiring life force rather than lyrium or mana.

The Chantry's reasoning is crap, it's essentially an arbitrary interpretation of some psalm conveniently understood in such a way to ensure further oppression.

The Blood Mages in the game tend to enslave and butcher innocent people. The fact they do this makes them evil, not that they practice Blood Magic.

[FTA Talisman]

cheesemage wrote...

If you look throughout the game, you will find that blood magic truly isn't as uncommon as the Chantry would lead you to believe.

The two most notable examples would be how the Templars track apostates, phylacteries filled with the mage's blood. Considering that this employs both blood and magic, this has to be an intentional irony on the writer's part to have the mechanism through blood mage's are tracked is through a form of blood magic.

The other notable instance of blood magic that isn't any sort of spoiler is the Joining. The Joining requires both the blood of darkspawn as well as lyrium, a mage's participation in preparing the ritual is required on some level. Again, the usage of blood and magic does once again reveal it quite tellingly as a practice of blood magic.

Now neither of these examples of usage of blood magic pose the same sort of societal risk that a mage capable of controlling the minds of others does, but it does show a certain utility of the discipline, that even a culture that is entirely hostile to the notion of blood magic still cannot divorce itself entirely from the practice.

What does this mean? Well, clearly blood magic is a tool that can be used for many things, but it doesn't mean an unusually informed pointing to the Grey Wardens as proof of the good blood magic can do is going to have to much success in winning that (presumably very short) argument.

You bring up some interesting points. I like your connections and how the Circle of Magi and the Chantry both use Blood as a form of control and how the Grey Wardens use it as a form of power. It also makes sense as to why these rituals are secret as it might cause some people to connect it with Blood Magic, which again is so sterio-typed as evil now. Interesting stuff.
I would like to know exactly how they would use the Phylactery to track down an Apostate. Maybe it's something similiar to the Joining ritual whereas the Grey Warden-Recruit would drink the darkspawn blood and, if he/she survies, would be able to sense Darkspawn. Or if a Templar drinks the blood of the Apostate, I use this loosely as I really have no idea what undergoes for the ritual, then he/she can sense the Apostate wherever they are. Maybe, maybe not. I truly do not know but it's something to think about.

[marbatico]

you know why the chantry says its evil, becouse they beleave its 'overpowered' magic, something that needs a load of templars to withstand. there just scared that mages will take over the world, even though the mages know better than that.

Modifié par marbatico, 15 janvier 2010 - 08:58 .

[Herr Uhl]

marbatico wrote...

you know why the chantry says its evil, becouse they beleave its 'overpowered' magic, something that needs a load of templars to withstand. there just scared that mages will take over the world, even though the mages know better than that.

Hey, it worked for the Imperium.

Tried and true.

[Lord Phoebus]

Blood magic is a tool, tools have no inherent morality. It's what you do with that tool that matters.



I think blood magic is basically an amplifier for mages. One mage can do with blood magic what it would take multiple mages with lyrium to do. Considering how much the Chantry fears mages, it's no surprise they freak out at the thought of mages on 'roids.

[Tor_pedo]

marbatico wrote...

you know why the chantry says its evil, becouse they beleave its 'overpowered' magic, something that needs a load of templars to withstand. there just scared that mages will take over the world, even though the mages know better than that.

that's like saying: Hitler didn't try to rid the world of jews - he knew better than that.

[Sloth Of Doom]

This news just in! The chantry has called for Blood Magic nerf. The Bioware boards flooded with repetitive threads by angry fanboys and chantry troll sympathizers.

[Bullets McDeath]

Is Blood Magic evil?



Was the Pope a Hitler Youth?