249 réponses à ce sujet

[PwrdOff]

Developers always want more time, if publishers appeased them nothing would ever come out.

[AresKeith]

dreamgazer wrote...

arial wrote...

EA did not "Set" a release date (Look at good ole Ninja Stans post on Page 3). EA and BW had to "Agree" on a release date pre-production.

EA did not say: "You are going to have this done by the date we mandate or else".
EA Actually said: "we had a mutual agreement for this date, we expect you to honor your agreement".

And what would happen if BioWare said: "No, we have to have more time?"

SO BE IT

shelves the game and releases two FPS games in its place

[in it for the lolz]

mass perfection wrote...

At this point,I'm starting to question the ME3 writers mental condition.

+1

[Spartas Husky]

BNN999 wrote...

Developers always want more time, if publishers appeased them nothing would ever come out.

Ah... look at Elder Scrolls... and Fallout...Wonder how bad Bethesda is doing.

[AresKeith]

BNN999 wrote...

Developers always want more time, if publishers appeased them nothing would ever come out.

Not true at all, if certain games got the development time it truly needed then they would make more profit

[AlanC9]

AresKeith wrote...

Not true at all, if certain games got the development time it truly needed then they would make more profit

The trick is telling those games from the Daikatanas.

[Spartas Husky]

AresKeith wrote...


Not true at all, if certain games got the development time it truly needed then they would make more profit

That is complete and utter LIES.  Elder Scrolls are not financially successful.

[INH56]

dreamgazer wrote...

arial wrote...

EA did not "Set" a release date (Look at good ole Ninja Stans post on Page 3). EA and BW had to "Agree" on a release date pre-production.

EA did not say: "You are going to have this done by the date we mandate or else".
EA Actually said: "we had a mutual agreement for this date, we expect you to honor your agreement".

And what would happen if BioWare said: "No, we have to have more time?"

Time is money. Another year of development is another year of paying the dev team's salaries. The development time has an upper limit due to the budget, which has an upper limit due to revenue expectations. And ME3 was never going to sell as many units as, say, Battlefield 3, so its budget wasn't going to be particularly big. The development time and budget can only be adjusted so much.

What can be adjusted far more easily is the game's content. If there wasn't enough time to do what Bioware wanted to do, then they should have changed their plans. For instance, they could have had the full scale invasion happen in the climax of the game rather than at the begining (with Reaper scouts/indoctrinated agents/whatever being the enemies up until then). This would cut down on the amount of space battle cutscenes, allow them to make smaller scale missions, and decrease the amount of background battle effects and other "fireworks" that the artists have to make. It also might have improved the story's pacing.

Modifié par INH56, 11 avril 2013 - 03:58 .

[AresKeith]

AlanC9 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Not true at all, if certain games got the development time it truly needed then they would make more profit

The trick is telling those games from the Daikatanas.

Actually what I said mostly applies to RPG type games

[Nightdragon8]

yep because they "where" planing a ABC ending....

[oblique9]

I played the game at launch. The face import bug that affected just about everyone, some shameless, quite obviously unfinished scenes in the game, codex, on disc DLC, autodialog, etc, etc, etc, etc. Either EA forced a rush release or Bioware did. No article nor anything anybody can tell me is going to change how I feel based on what I (and everyone else) saw in the game.

[Nightdragon8]

oblique9 wrote...

I played the game at launch. The face import bug that affected just about everyone, some shameless, quite obviously unfinished scenes in the game, codex, on disc DLC, autodialog, etc, etc, etc, etc. Either EA forced a rush release or Bioware did. No article nor anything anybody can tell me is going to change how I feel based on what I (and everyone else) saw in the game.

not to mention the BROKEN journal... imo thats the biggest one

[_Syn_]

The game was pretty undercooked. No doubt about that.

[AresKeith]

Nightdragon8 wrote...

oblique9 wrote...

I played the game at launch. The face import bug that affected just about everyone, some shameless, quite obviously unfinished scenes in the game, codex, on disc DLC, autodialog, etc, etc, etc, etc. Either EA forced a rush release or Bioware did. No article nor anything anybody can tell me is going to change how I feel based on what I (and everyone else) saw in the game.

not to mention the BROKEN journal... imo thats the biggest one

I forgot all about that damn journal, that thing was insulting

[Adoramei]

Because I always badmouth the person who signs the paycheck of myself and my entire company in public.

And it's a problem more and more apparent when watching trends with video games. (Or fiscal trends at all.) Time = money. Or ever notice how that band that you once loved for their down-to-earn, independent sound gets signed and suddenly, although they're producing albums much faster.. And weirdly enough, everyone knows about them now.. Something's changed in their music but you can't quite put your finger on it. It's catchier. It really gets stuck in your head, but it's not the same as it was before. Maybe you like it more, maybe not.

Same ol', same ol'. (Although music is different since art is subjective. Video games suffer from a decline in quality, which I'd consider objective. Perspectives might be different on the subject, but if you're well-versed and try to remain objective, you can normally point out what flaws there are in actual quality.)

EA is pretty well known for the way they crunch the constraints. Games, no matter who develops them under the EA flag, get released with game-breaking bugs constantly. It IS expected for there to be technical problems with the release of a game, especially with the improvement of technology, but the rate only seems to be snowballing.

Don't get me wrong. I have bought quite a few EA titles and loved them. And I admit that Bioware has its share of responsibility for what happened to ME3. They're the ones who made the decisions.. but at the end of the day, you're not going to bite the hand that feeds. Getting signed with EA really gave Bioware an incredible boost as a company. It's an opportunity that you're really aiming for.

That's why I'm normally sad (as opposed to angry) or disappointed after an artist "sells out". Because I know that it's a fantastic opportunity for them, and if I were in the same situation, I'd likely do the same thing. Idealism rarely ever pays the bills. Thus my own career change from art to health care.

When you're put under the gun, expected to pull off a miracle with limited time, something's going to give. And to be honest, the more and more I play the game and continue discussing with my peers, I'm starting to see the flaws of ME3. At first, I was absolutely enraptured with it. I was just so excited to continue my story after being aggravated with the overly simplified ME2 as opposed to ME1. The ending just took the wind out of my sails though. And very quickly, instead of just hating the ending, there's more and more about the game in general that I feel was rushed.

It didn't hit me as fast as it did with DA2 (probably because with DA2, I hated it from the get-go with the demo and the ME series could do no wrong in my eyes), but it's there. That's just my feeling on it though.

[AlanC9]

I keep asking something and never get a clear answer-- what is it you folks are trying to do with the journal that it won't do? There are, what, four fetch quests where you know the name of the planet to go to but it doesn't show on the map? The rest of the time the journal wouldn't tell you anything useful anyway, as far as I can tell.

Modifié par AlanC9, 11 avril 2013 - 05:19 .

[Nightwriter]

"They don't tell you how to write."
"We had control over a lot."
"Businesses have to make money."
"I like EA, we're all buddies here."

Safe general comments, stating the obvious, presenting a united business front. No surprises. You wants to play the game, you gots to babble the babble.

Nevertheless, let us project his vague vagueries onto the wall and make shadow puppets. This one is a bunny, lookee.

[In Exile]

AlanC9 wrote...

The trick is telling those games from the Daikatanas.

What are you talking about? That game was a masterpiece. The companion AI alone is worth the price of admission. The thought that in just a few years, human minds could achieve ... that is really impressive.

Everyone who hasn't played Daikatana should order it now, with absolutely no googling beforehand. 

[UniqueName001]

AlanC9 wrote...

I keep asking something and never get a clear answer-- what is it you folks are trying to do with the journal that it won't do? There are, what, four fetch quests where you know the name of the planet to go to but it doesn't show on the map? The rest of the time the journal wouldn't tell you anything useful anyway, as far as I can tell.

At least for me, I expected the Journal to provide the next step in the quest path.  Saying what system a given planet was in would have been nice; I had to write down a bunch of planet names and scratch them off as I accidentally found them.  Then when I got the object, the journal should have updated with who and where to return it (which also would have indicated that I had in fact found it - eliminating the need to scratch them off).  I had to wander around a lot of places trying to figure out if there was anyone I needed to talk to. 

I only found Miranda on the Citidel by looking at the map and noticing that she was in the apartments.  Maybe the quest system would have caught up with that one, I don't know.  And I never did find Ashley at the memorial, although I have no idea if that was a journal issue or some other bug.

[Peranor]

Inded "complete creative control" is not the same as "no forced deadlines".

[Spam image removed.]

Modifié par Ninja Stan, 11 avril 2013 - 09:01 .

[SpamBot2000]

EA probably made their golden parachutes contingent on ongoing praise to the company and to the (ex) CEO. It's kinda creepy to me, the way "our dear friend and mentor" John Riccitiello stood a couple of feet off at the side of the stage, watching Muzyka and Zeschuk get their "lifetime achievement" awards at the GDC, as if he had anything to do with what these guys were getting awarded for, beyond making it end anyway.

Then again, the more interviews I see them do, the less I tend to think of them as I used to. They never say "I like games" anymore, they say "I'm really interested in business."

Oh, and ME3 was rushed. Ninja Stanley can talk down to people as much as he wants, but the picture is pretty clear.

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 11 avril 2013 - 06:14 .

[PrinceLionheart]

dreamgazer wrote...

Are we lumping time constraints together with creative meddling?

A lot of Bioware apologist have actually been doing that since Dragon Age 2 and it increased after the ME3 ending debacle.

[PrinceLionheart]

dreamgazer wrote...

arial wrote...

EA did not "Set" a release date (Look at good ole Ninja Stans post on Page 3). EA and BW had to "Agree" on a release date pre-production.

EA did not say: "You are going to have this done by the date we mandate or else".
EA Actually said: "we had a mutual agreement for this date, we expect you to honor your agreement".

And what would happen if BioWare said: "No, we have to have more time?"

Bioware did exactly that when ME3 got delayed to add Multiplayer.

[drayfish]

INH56 wrote...

Re: EA rushing the game.

Regardless of how much development time you have, if you don't have an ending written or even outlined until a few months before release, that is 100% your fault.

Also, Bioware knew from the beginning how much time they would have. This wasn't like KOTOR 2, where the publisher moved up the release date. They've been making games for 18 years, and 2 years is not an unreasonable time frame to make a game like this, especially since the engine and most of the combat system had already been set up in ME2. Bioware should have known what they could accomplish with the time and money they were given and planned accordingly.

If the development time wasn't enough to meet their ambitions, then they should have adjusted their ambitions.

I completely agree.

I hear a lot of people demonise EA (it is, of course, incredibly easy to do, as they behave like such insufferable, non-communicative hucksters - see: microtransactions; selling consumers utterly non-operational games like SimCity; bleeding franchises dry), but ultimately it was Bioware who decided to half-ass their way into cobbling together that ugly ending.

Yes, the game is clearly rushed - the glitches, the facial import bug, the journal system, the narrowing of decision paths, the complete rejection of major plot points and choices from the previous games - but many of these elements could have been overlooked or forgiven had there have been a cohesive narrative throughline.  Indeed, look at how many people can salvage their affection for Mass Effect simply by substituting Bioware's sacrificial altar for MEHEM,
which is more tonally unified (even if it still retains all ignored decisions like the Racchni, the Collector Base, the human Councilor, and is still plagued by zombie eyes and possessed heads and clipped dialogue and naff fetch quests).

EA may very well have told Bioware: 'You are releasing in this quarter window in order to hit our financial projections', but it was Bioware who had upwards of half-a-decade to come up with a satisfactory conclusion, and to make good on their repeated, insistent promises that there was a reason this was a trilogy, and that they knew all along where this story was headed.

I highly doubt, for all of their wallet-squeezing, EA ever asked Bioware to turn the beauty of the universe they had created into a muddled endorsement of intolerance and hopelessness because it would 'sell well'.

Modifié par drayfish, 11 avril 2013 - 06:50 .

[Jadebaby]

Game is rushed, deal with it.