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Do you consider yourself to be a good person?

Débuté par mickey111 , avril 11 2013 01:01

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124 réponses à ce sujet

#76
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Posté 11 avril 2013 - 10:10

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Erik Lehnsherr wrote...

Something can be good overrall?
Because society says so?

No.
Because I say so. Me as the logic driven man who has chosen to believe that such is the truth over much deliberation and examination of how things flow. Of course, I recognize that at this assertion is completely unsubstantiated for debate, but it's all I've got. 
And so, with me failing to uphold the burden of proof I have to concede the point.

What if Society said killing was good? Would it be?

And hundreds upon thousands of people, even more disagree with the Golden rule whenever they break it by, raping, stealing, murdering and oppressing.

Not necessarily. There is a difference between disagreeing with a point and ignoring it's existance for personal gain.

#77
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Posté 11 avril 2013 - 10:10

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Fiddles dee dee wrote...

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

M25105 wrote...

Erik Lehnsherr wrote...

@M25105
No morals are universal friend.


Treating people like a dick is a universal morally bad thing.


Only if its socially inacceptable.

For example treating women like second class humans is pretty much a give in large parts of the world up until today.


True but torturing children by breaking their arms and legs or burning large portions of their flesh has always be unacceptable to all cultures across the world. There are degrees of course such as foot binding and and rituals from adolesence to adulthood which stretch the boundary but brutally beating a six-year-old is a universal no-no. 

People still do it but it's never been socially acceptable in any culture, ever. 


That isn't a word to be used lightly in discussions such as this one. I can assure you it's most definitely possible and perhaps even likely to find a civilization that, at one time, found actions similar to the one you described are to be perfectly acceptable when certain conditions are met, be they difficult to comply with or not.

#78
Jack Package
Posté 11 avril 2013 - 10:11

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Considering the golden rule,... I think that once a person follows it, that person can consider herself/himself a good person.
And that is sorta the initial question of the thread.  ;)

#79
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Posté 11 avril 2013 - 10:12

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I think the problem here is that people are using different definitions of universal for me, universal means applied to every living organism, in this case every human that has and will live.

I guarantee at least one will kill children in a brutal way, therefore this is no-longer universally unacceptable. If you're talking about it being acceptable within a general conscensus then it's no-longer universal.

#80
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Posté 11 avril 2013 - 10:17

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randumb vanguard wrote...

Erik Lehnsherr wrote...

Something can be good overrall?
Because society says so?

No.
Because I say so. Me as the logic driven man who has chosen to believe that such is the truth over much deliberation and examination of how things flow. Of course, I recognize that at this assertion is completely unsubstantiated for debate, but it's all I've got. 
And so, with me failing to uphold the burden of proof I have to concede the point.


But you can't present your opinion as though it's universal. 

Because I choose to believe you're wrong. 

#81
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Posté 11 avril 2013 - 10:20

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It varies. I find I'm very self critical.

#82
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Posté 11 avril 2013 - 10:20

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Erik Lehnsherr wrote...

But you can't present your opinion as though it's universal. 

I can by saying that it applies to all, and that not all agree with it. 
But again, I can present it, but I can't even begin to defend such a claim, so that pretty much renders my points moot.

#83
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Posté 11 avril 2013 - 10:24

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Erik Lehnsherr wrote...

I think the problem here is that people are using different definitions of universal for me, universal means applied to every living organism, in this case every human that has and will live.

I guarantee at least one will kill children in a brutal way, therefore this is no-longer universally unacceptable. If you're talking about it being acceptable within a general conscensus then it's no-longer universal.


For me, the term 'universal', considering the context, means today's society. Generally. The future is unknown, and the past certainly has no bearing on what is acceptable now with the exception of being a possible influence of how X is seen by humanity at this very moment. Which is not at all relevant for the time being.

Therefore, I do believe it is universally unacceptable. I'm certain there are people who think it is fine to do such a thing, but I am also sure they are in the extreme minority.

However, it must be said that that was probably not always the case. Barbaric methods of torture were (and still are in some places of the world) very popular not even one century ago and I doubt they were always reserved for adults.

--------------------------~--------------------------


On topic:

No, I wouldn't really say so. Some will disagree with me, of that I have no doubt, but none know the full extent of why I do not find myself to be a "good person". Nor will they ever if I have any say on the issue, for that matter.

#84
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Posté 11 avril 2013 - 10:24

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Quote the Golden Rule for me.

If it relys upon belief then your whole argument has been pointless as you've stated.

#85
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Posté 11 avril 2013 - 10:29

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Erik Lehnsherr wrote...

Quote the Golden Rule for me.

Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you.

If it relys upon belief then your whole argument has been pointless as you've stated.

yay, agreement! :D \\o/

#86
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Posté 11 avril 2013 - 10:38

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People don't follow that rule anymore it's pretty clear because if the state of the world and what one human-being is willing to do to another because they can but wouldn't like it themselves.

It's as relevant as Greek mythology today, hey it's still around and people are reminded of it and maybe are even told it's a good thing to follow but not everyone has followed it.
Thus by my definition it isn't universal.

By yours it is but seeing as universal means "all" it's as pretty poor definition of the word when you exclude minority's from "all" sure they aren't much of that all but whether you like it or not they're still part of it.

#87
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Posté 11 avril 2013 - 10:44

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Erik Lehnsherr wrote...

By yours it is but seeing as universal means "all" it's as pretty poor definition of the word when you exclude minority's from "all" sure they aren't much of that all but whether you like it or not they're still part of it.


Then there is no such thing as an universal concept. Is that what you're saying?

As someone who dislikes generalization immensely, I have to admit it is sometimes necessary. A case-by-case evaluation is often outright impossible and from there comes the idea of excluding extreme minorities. Not all of them.

Edit: In discussions about this sort of thing, not excluding severely outnumbered group(s) essentially makes it impossible to reach any sort of consensus regarding any matter. I cannot find it in me to agree with such an idea, hence why I am sometimes forced (by myself no less!) to generalize despite my contempt for it.

Modifié par Lathrim, 11 avril 2013 - 10:48 .

#88
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Posté 11 avril 2013 - 10:47

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Nope, Stars universally exist.

#89
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Posté 11 avril 2013 - 10:49

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Also in this case the misuse or complete ignorance of the Golden Rule isn't a minority.

#90
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Posté 11 avril 2013 - 10:50

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Erik Lehnsherr wrote...

Nope, Stars universally exist.


Because their existence is factually proven. By 'concept' I meant things that cannot be taken as a fact. Should have clarified that, I apologize.

#91
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Posté 11 avril 2013 - 10:52

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Then yes I believe in concept "Universal" has no grounding.

I prefer to judge each thing on it's own merits or not at all.

#92
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Posté 11 avril 2013 - 10:53

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Erik Lehnsherr wrote...

Also in this case the misuse or complete ignorance of the Golden Rule isn't a minority.


No, but disconsidering the Golden Rule as a valid method of restricting your own behaviour is.

#93
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Posté 11 avril 2013 - 10:55

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I beg your pardon but could you expand upon that?

#94
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Posté 11 avril 2013 - 10:57

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Erik Lehnsherr wrote...

I beg your pardon but could you expand upon that?


I basically said that the group who doesn't follow the Golden Rule because they do not believe it is 'correct' is a minority.

#95
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Posté 11 avril 2013 - 11:05

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It is most definitely correct but I was arguing whether people actually follow the rule or not, which the general populace of the world doesn't, to say otherwise would be extremely naive.

#96
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Posté 11 avril 2013 - 11:09

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Erik Lehnsherr wrote...

It is most definitely correct but I was arguing whether people actually follow the rule or not, which the general populace of the world doesn't, to say otherwise would be extremely naive.


Sure, but the reason why they do not follow it is varied. I'd argue the majority are hypocrites on the matter, whilst a very small group (do take into account just how many people this world has when reading that) don't actually believe it is correct. And that minority, due to how irrelevant it is when the whole world is considered, can (and is by myself and many others) be ignored so we, humans, can come closer to a consensus regarding not only whether the Golden Rule is correct or not but also in the matter of why some don't think it should be followed.

#97
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Posté 11 avril 2013 - 11:10

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This is quite the leap from "Are you a good person?"

#98
C9316
Posté 11 avril 2013 - 11:13

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God, this is just like my Philosophy class last semester. ^^

#99
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Posté 11 avril 2013 - 11:15

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Was it a fun class?

#100
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Posté 11 avril 2013 - 11:15

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C9316 wrote...

God, this is just like my Philosophy class last semester. ^^


Such low-profile discussions must have been boring.
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