166 réponses à ce sujet

[KingZayd]

PirateMouse wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

None of the alternatives do anything to protect the galaxy from Reaper vs non-Reaper conflict.

Control does.

No it doesn't.
All it does is substitute one synthetic with the power to destroy all organics with another.

[Spartas Husky]

BNN999 wrote...

I don't get what the big deal is about Destroy wiping out the geth. You could always just build more.

According to lore... we dont know... according to the brat hudson, they might be destroyed... according to ending slide, is unlikely they actually died. For if Synthethic died, anything based on synthethic components would have been affected as well.

So many thigns contradict one another. And after rannoch the geth no longer are a collective consensus, they are each an individual, so how would they be building more, how would they multiply is anyone's guess.

KingZayd wrote...

PirateMouse wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

None of the alternatives do anything to protect the galaxy from Reaper vs non-Reaper conflict.

Control does.

No it doesn't.
All it does is substitute one synthetic with the power to destroy all organics with another.

THose who fail to remember history out of arrogance... or ignorance are bound to repeat it.

I.e
Be arrogant enough to believe you can control thousands of sky scrapper size super quantum computers with a single human brain.

Or be Ignorant enough to dismiss what happended to Saren, and the protheans.

Modifié par Spartas Husky, 12 avril 2013 - 05:58 .

[PirateMouse]

KingZayd wrote...

No it doesn't.
All it does is substitute one synthetic with the power to destroy all organics with another.

As Shepard, you always had the power to destroy countless people.  You were basically more powerful than anyone short of the Reapers themselves.  Does it follow that there could never be hope of peace between you and anyone at all in the galaxy because you were capable of killing them?

[Xilizhra]

It seems relatively unlikely. My opinion on the matter is "if you're willing to kill every last geth to avoid a hypothetical future fear of the Reapers, your opinion doesn't matter to me in any case."

[HiddenInWar]

Considering how I predict most would pick destroy, I think it would only give me more motivation.

[KingZayd]

PirateMouse wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

No it doesn't.
All it does is substitute one synthetic with the power to destroy all organics with another.

As Shepard, you always had the power to destroy countless people.  You were basically more powerful than anyone short of the Reapers themselves.  Does it follow that there could never be hope of peace between you and anyone at all in the galaxy because you were capable of killing them?

Isn't that the whole idea behind synthetics wiping out organics? It's not something I agree with, but if you accept what the Starchild tells you, then clearly that's the logical result.

That said, giving anyone unlimited power for eternity is not a good idea. Like I said, this option does nothing to protect the non-Reapers of the galaxy from Reapers.

[PirateMouse]

Spartas Husky wrote...

THose who fail to remember history out of arrogance... or ignorance are bound to repeat it.

I.e
Be arrogant enough to believe you can control thousands of sky scrapper size super quantum computers with a single human brain.

Or be Ignorant enough to dismiss what happended to Saren, and the protheans.

And yet you don't hesitate to believe Starbrat when he tells you he'll help you kill the Reapers (and him!) -- all you have to do is shoot the Crucible! Inconsistent much?

Starbrat just told you you can in fact control the Reapers.  So either you believe the brat, and you accept Control is perfectly possible, or you don't, and your choosing Destroy makes no sense whatsoever because it was a choice given to you by Starbrat and requires you to do something that looks suspiciously more like breaking the Crucible than killing any Reapers.

You cannot occupy a logically consistent position while simultaneously saying you believe Destroy will work as the Starbrat claimed but don't believe Control will work.

Modifié par PirateMouse, 12 avril 2013 - 06:04 .

[Xilizhra]

KingZayd wrote...

PirateMouse wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

No it doesn't.
All it does is substitute one synthetic with the power to destroy all organics with another.

As Shepard, you always had the power to destroy countless people.  You were basically more powerful than anyone short of the Reapers themselves.  Does it follow that there could never be hope of peace between you and anyone at all in the galaxy because you were capable of killing them?

Isn't that the whole idea behind synthetics wiping out organics? It's not something I agree with, but if you accept what the Starchild tells you, then clearly that's the logical result.

That said, giving anyone unlimited power for eternity is not a good idea. Like I said, this option does nothing to protect the non-Reapers of the galaxy from Reapers.

They no longer need protection from Reapers, as the Reapers are no longer hostile.

[Zazzerka]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Does PirateMouse remind anyone else of Auld Wulf? I think they could be related.

I think Auld does it better.

It'd be pretty easy to do. The majority of BSNers prefer destroy, and the majority villify synthesis and control. Simply take the opposite stance, and up the ante when it comes to arguing morality by chucking in a couple of Hitler references, and proceed to wallow in the butthurt.

[KingZayd]

Xilizhra wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

PirateMouse wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

No it doesn't.
All it does is substitute one synthetic with the power to destroy all organics with another.

As Shepard, you always had the power to destroy countless people.  You were basically more powerful than anyone short of the Reapers themselves.  Does it follow that there could never be hope of peace between you and anyone at all in the galaxy because you were capable of killing them?

Isn't that the whole idea behind synthetics wiping out organics? It's not something I agree with, but if you accept what the Starchild tells you, then clearly that's the logical result.

That said, giving anyone unlimited power for eternity is not a good idea. Like I said, this option does nothing to protect the non-Reapers of the galaxy from Reapers.

They no longer need protection from Reapers, as the Reapers are no longer hostile.

And that will last forever? Doubtful.

[Xilizhra]

And that will last forever? Doubtful.

Forever is an extremely long time. I think we'll have reached Synthesis naturally and then progressed beyond mortality itself long before I'd need to worry about Shepard's corruption.

[PirateMouse]

KingZayd wrote...

Isn't that the whole idea behind synthetics wiping out organics? It's not something I agree with, but if you accept what the Starchild tells you, then clearly that's the logical result.

I don't accept what the Starbrat tells me, but I believe the brat believes it.

That said, giving anyone unlimited power for eternity is not a good idea. Like I said, this option does nothing to protect the non-Reapers of the galaxy from Reapers.

It's not unlimited power (the Reapers have clearly defined limits), and it's only your speculation that it's for an eternity.  That being said, generally the idea behind the fear of giving people such power that you're giving voice to is the fear that they'll eventually do something terrible with it ... like, say, genocide.

Except you just skipped the "unlimited power" step altogether and went straight to the genocide without even passing Go or collecting your $200.  You didn't even need to sit around and get corrupted by power a little bit first -- no, the moment the power to commit genocide was handed to you, you jumped on it like cat on catnip.

Nice job.

Modifié par PirateMouse, 12 avril 2013 - 06:09 .

[KingZayd]

Xilizhra wrote...

And that will last forever? Doubtful.

Forever is an extremely long time. I think we'll have reached Synthesis naturally and then progressed beyond mortality itself long before I'd need to worry about Shepard's corruption.

What do you mean by "reaching synthesis naturally" and "progressing beyong mortality"
Because if you mean what I think you do, you might need forever for that.

[KingZayd]

PirateMouse wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Isn't that the whole idea behind synthetics wiping out organics? It's not something I agree with, but if you accept what the Starchild tells you, then clearly that's the logical result.

I don't accept what the Starbrat tells me, but I believe the brat believes it.

That said, giving anyone unlimited power for eternity is not a good idea. Like I said, this option does nothing to protect the non-Reapers of the galaxy from Reapers.

It's not unlimited power (the Reapers have clearly defined limits), and it's only your speculation that it's for an eternity.  That being said, generally the idea behind the fear of giving people such power that you're giving voice to is the fear that they'll eventually do something terrible with it ... like, say, genocide.

Except you just skipped the "unlimited power" step altogether and went straight to the genocide without even passing Go or collecting your $200.  You didn't even need to sit around and get corrupted by power a little bit first -- no, the moment the power to commit genocide was handed to you, you jumped on it like cat on catnip.

Nice job.

Oh yeah? Who can stand up to the Reaper army now that the Crucible has been used up?

And that genocide saved the galaxy. The galaxy is welcome. Synthetic and Organic races of the future are welcome.

[PirateMouse]

Zazzerka wrote...

It'd be pretty easy to do. The majority of BSNers prefer destroy, and the majority villify synthesis and control. Simply take the opposite stance, and up the ante when it comes to arguing morality by chucking in a couple of Hitler references, and proceed to wallow in the butthurt.

I'm not doing this to be perverse; I'm arguing a position I honestly hold.  And you're the one bringing up Hitler, and would you mind not doing so? It never helps.

(Although good job proving Godwin's Law once again.)

Modifié par PirateMouse, 12 avril 2013 - 06:20 .

[Clayless]

Pretty sure synthesis just saves and advances everyone. The next best choice would be control though, as there's no genocide and everyone is saved.

[Xilizhra]

KingZayd wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

And that will last forever? Doubtful.

Forever is an extremely long time. I think we'll have reached Synthesis naturally and then progressed beyond mortality itself long before I'd need to worry about Shepard's corruption.

What do you mean by "reaching synthesis naturally" and "progressing beyong mortality"
Because if you mean what I think you do, you might need forever for that.

That which was referred to in the Synthesis ending.

And rest assured, the Reapers will be safe. As will the galaxy, safer than it's ever been.

[PirateMouse]

KingZayd wrote...

Oh yeah? Who can stand up to the Reaper army now that the Crucible has been used up?

There is always someone who can kill someone else; it does not follow that we cannot have peace just because A could kill B.  To be ruled by fear, well ... it is often precisely that fear that leads to such terrible acts as genocide, in fact.

[KingZayd]

Xilizhra wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

And that will last forever? Doubtful.

Forever is an extremely long time. I think we'll have reached Synthesis naturally and then progressed beyond mortality itself long before I'd need to worry about Shepard's corruption.

What do you mean by "reaching synthesis naturally" and "progressing beyong mortality"
Because if you mean what I think you do, you might need forever for that.

That which was referred to in the Synthesis ending.

And rest assured, the Reapers will be safe. As will the galaxy, safer than it's ever been.

Didn't see any "natural synthesis" in that ending. Or any "progressing beyond mortality". EDI mentioned that one day, maybe. But not even the Reapers could escape their destruction.

The galaxy will be safer than it's ever been now that the Reapers are gone.

[Xilizhra]

Didn't see any "natural synthesis" in that ending. Or any "progressing beyond mortality". EDI mentioned that one day, maybe. But not even the Reapers could escape their destruction.

The galaxy will be safer than it's ever been now that the Reapers are gone.

Oh, please. The galaxy has numerous ways to screw itself over even without the Reapers. It happens over and over again. But with them... I can stop wars before they begin.

[KingZayd]

PirateMouse wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Oh yeah? Who can stand up to the Reaper army now that the Crucible has been used up?

There is always someone who can kill someone else; it does not follow that we cannot have peace just because A could kill B.  To be ruled by fear, well ... it is often precisely that fear that leads to such terrible acts as genocide, in fact.

It's not being ruled by fear. It's merely using logic. Shepard is not the type to ignore the things he perceives to be unjust and wrong. He would use his power to enforce his moral views on the galaxy. It is only a matter of time before in the end he effectively rules the galaxy or ends up in a war he cannot lose.

As they say: "The road to hell is paved with good intentions".

[Xilizhra]

KingZayd wrote...

PirateMouse wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Oh yeah? Who can stand up to the Reaper army now that the Crucible has been used up?

There is always someone who can kill someone else; it does not follow that we cannot have peace just because A could kill B.  To be ruled by fear, well ... it is often precisely that fear that leads to such terrible acts as genocide, in fact.

It's not being ruled by fear. It's merely using logic. Shepard is not the type to ignore the things he perceives to be unjust and wrong. He would use his power to enforce his moral views on the galaxy. It is only a matter of time before in the end he effectively rules the galaxy or ends up in a war he cannot lose.

As they say: "The road to hell is paved with good intentions".

That'd cause long-term harm in several ways, to be so blatant about it in too many ways. Hence, not something I'd do.

[KingZayd]

Xilizhra wrote...

Didn't see any "natural synthesis" in that ending. Or any "progressing beyond mortality". EDI mentioned that one day, maybe. But not even the Reapers could escape their destruction.

The galaxy will be safer than it's ever been now that the Reapers are gone.

Oh, please. The galaxy has numerous ways to screw itself over even without the Reapers. It happens over and over again. But with them... I can stop wars before they begin.

What numerous ways are there for the galaxy to screw itself over? The Reapers are the only unbalanced force out there.
You can't stop wars before they begin. But sure, you can win them.

[Zazzerka]

PirateMouse wrote...

I'm not doing this to be perverse; I'm arguing a position I honestly hold.  And you're the one bringing up Hitler, and would you mind not doing so? It never helps.

(Although good job proving Godwin's Law once again.)

I actually wasn't the one who compared destroyers to Hitler, but that insane leap of logic has been used before. And I'm sure you're aware.

So seeing as Hitler was actually relevant to the conversation, was that actually an example of Godwin's Law?