935 réponses à ce sujet

[NT121784]

If destroy meant all species, I would refuse

[Froswald]

I'd pick destroy no matter what, even if it killed all life in the galaxy. Life would find a way eventually, and it'd mean the end of machines that killed far more than I ever could even attempt to. Is it a bad choice? Yes, but looking at the other two choices, I couldn't allow the Reapers to live after what they had done. Even moreso the Levithans, so that would actually be another plus for me, destroy if it killed all organics would kill off the Levithans, allowing life to grow without their potential influence. 

In order, the endings I would pick as my default character are:

Destroy
Refusal
Diddle around for eternity while smiling at the intelligence
Synthesis
Control

[robertthebard]

remydat wrote...

robertthebard

Just because you sacrificed the Geth yesterday instead of today (ie at the end of the game) does not mean you haven't sacrificed them.

And again, you are free to make your decision based on your logic as I am free to make mine based on my logic.  I am not suggesting you change your logic.  I am telling you why I don't agree with it and why my logic is different.  For 3 games I have been fighting to destroy the Reapers and then when confronted with their creator and when confronted with Leviathan, I learn things are more complicated. 

Obviously that hasn't changed your ultimate goal but it did for me.  I am human, my goals and motivations change as I am presented with new information.  Just because I started out with a goal say 6 years ago in ME1 doesn't mean I must stick with it when new information is provided.  If it meant that then I might as well be a machine.

The Reaper threat today is ended under all 3 scenarios IMO.  There is a potential threat in the future under all 3 scenarios IMO.  So I choose the option that saves the most lives.

...and now the reaching starts.  I didn't sacrifice the geth, the Quarians killed them.  So now, every time somebody dies, it's my fault because I didn't choose Control, even though the Crucible isn't built yet.  You are seriously just trolling now, right?

[GeneralMoskvin_2.0]

Catalyst: The Crucible won't discriminate. All space squids will be targeted, including the Asar-

*tube blows up*

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

GeneralMoskvin_2.0 wrote...

Catalyst: The Crucible won't discriminate. All space squids will be targeted, including the Asar-

*tube blows up*

Catalyst: HA! You'll never choose to destroy us now that your precious blueberrys are threatened!

CheesecakeShep: Nah I'm good.

Catalyst: But...but synthesis is teh bestest!

CheesecakeShep: *walking towards the tube* Not really. *starts firing*

Catalyst: But...but the art! The deep meaning!!!!

CheesecakeShep: F*ck off *explosion*

Modifié par Grand Admiral Cheesecake, 13 avril 2013 - 10:42 .

[Bill Casey]

Froswald wrote...

In order, the endings I would pick as my default character are:

Destroy
Refusal
Diddle around for eternity while smiling at the intelligence
Synthesis
Control

I would pick Control before Synthesis, because it's still possible someone else would be able to stop the Shepalyst...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 13 avril 2013 - 10:44 .

[remydat]

robertthebard wrote...

...and now the reaching starts.  I didn't sacrifice the geth, the Quarians killed them.  So now, every time somebody dies, it's my fault because I didn't choose Control, even though the Crucible isn't built yet.  You are seriously just trolling now, right?

That comment was from a metagame perspective.  After that first sentence the rest of my post which you ignored had nothing to do with the first sentence. 

I actually explicitly state you are free to make whatever decision so not sure why are claiming I said something is your fault because you didn't pick control.  You seem to be wanting to pick a fight for no reason.  I repeat, you are free to make your own choice.

[kleindropper]

I'm sorry, I tried the Synthesis ending today and it is just ridiculous. Can somebody explain to me why Joker's baseball cap is now apparently a synthetic lifeform? (his cap has green squigglys going through it.) So now long-dead wool or cotton is synthetic life? Please.

Destroy, destroy, destroy, no matter what. It may take millions of years for someone to get another chance to hook up a crucible so it needs to be fired to wipe out the reapers no matter what.

[Barquiel]

I'd probably choose control...at least in the Asari, Turians, Humans and the "all organics" scenarios...the Quarians died on Rannoch in my main playthrough so I could still shoot the tube.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

kleindropper wrote...

I'm sorry, I tried the Synthesis ending today and it is just ridiculous. Can somebody explain to me why Joker's baseball cap is now apparently a synthetic lifeform? (his cap has green squigglys going through it.) So now long-dead wool or cotton is synthetic life? Please.

Destroy, destroy, destroy, no matter what. It may take millions of years for someone to get another chance to hook up a crucible so it needs to be fired to wipe out the reapers no matter what.

Joker never washes his hands after he goes to the bathroom.and adjusts his hat immediately. You never want to touch the hat.

[o Ventus]

kleindropper wrote...

I'm sorry, I tried the Synthesis ending today and it is just ridiculous. Can somebody explain to me why Joker's baseball cap is now apparently a synthetic lifeform? (his cap has green squigglys going through it.) So now long-dead wool or cotton is synthetic life? Please.

So are the surrounding rocks and boulders.

'CAUSE DIAMONDS ARE A GIRL'S BEST FRIEND.

[ajaxbr]

Destroy is the best of bad options.
I would rather destroy one ally race (Geth):
then fundamentally change ALL organic life in the galaxy.
then enslaving all non organic life.

[remydat]

kleindropper wrote...

I'm sorry, I tried the Synthesis ending today and it is just ridiculous. Can somebody explain to me why Joker's baseball cap is now apparently a synthetic lifeform? (his cap has green squigglys going through it.) So now long-dead wool or cotton is synthetic life? Please.

Destroy, destroy, destroy, no matter what. It may take millions of years for someone to get another chance to hook up a crucible so it needs to be fired to wipe out the reapers no matter what.

Boy you must have really be upset in ME2 that Shep got blown into space, was able to enter a planet's atmosphere instead of bouncing off if you are not travelling at a high enough speed, plummeted through the atmosphere without burning up like a meteorite and hit the ground or ocean without being turned into mush only to be ressurected by miraculous means by the chic from the Chuck TV show.

[Sc2mashimaro]

That's a fair question, OP.

For me, though, it is a question of believing or not believing the Catalyst.

If I believe the Catalyst and agree with his assesment of the problem (synthetic-organic conflict), then Synthesis makes the most sense.

If I believe the Catalyst, but disagree with his assesment of the problem, Control makes the most sense.

If I do not believe the Catalyst is telling the whole truth, and, by defualt, do not agree with his assesment of the problem, then Destroy makes the most sense.

If I do not believe the Catalyst at all and, by default, disagree with his assesment of the problem AND/OR I find all of his solutions to be morally bankrupt and hold the morality of how I achieve victory above victory itself, Refuse makes the most sense.

I am generally in favor of picking destroy, but if the cost escalated enough - and I believed the Catalyst was not lying about those costs to keep me from picking Destroy - I would pick Refuse. In play-throughs where my Shepard is more inclined to believe the Catalyst, there is no reason to pick destroy, but I think a reasonable person is justified to doubt the word of the Catalyst in the moment (as long as they do not meta-game).

Modifié par Sc2mashimaro, 13 avril 2013 - 11:30 .

[kleindropper]

remydat wrote...

kleindropper wrote...

I'm sorry, I tried the Synthesis ending today and it is just ridiculous. Can somebody explain to me why Joker's baseball cap is now apparently a synthetic lifeform? (his cap has green squigglys going through it.) So now long-dead wool or cotton is synthetic life? Please.

Destroy, destroy, destroy, no matter what. It may take millions of years for someone to get another chance to hook up a crucible so it needs to be fired to wipe out the reapers no matter what.

Boy you must have really be upset in ME2 that Shep got blown into space, was able to enter a planet's atmosphere instead of bouncing off if you are not travelling at a high enough speed, plummeted through the atmosphere without burning up like a meteorite and hit the ground or ocean without being turned into mush only to be ressurected by miraculous means by the chic from the Chuck TV show.

Yes, but it's much easier to swallow than Sythesis due to several factors:

• Gravity; was the planet a low gravity planet?  Shep could have had a soft landing in low gravity
• Atmosphere: with little or no atmosphere there would be no burnup
• Suit techonology; did Shep's state of the art suit preserve and protect his body?
• Temperature; flash freezing Shepard's body may have allowed for it to be more easily revived.  Drowning victims who were in cold water have been revived as much as  40 minutes after drowning.
• Felix Baumgartner; I've seen somebody plummet from space and survive just fine.  I would guess a frozen corpse doesn't need much of a parachute (see gravity).
• I've also seen Russian videos of decapitated dog's heads being revived by simply running oxygenated blood through their veins.  Creepy but valid.

[remydat]

kleindropper wrote...

Yes, but it's much easier to swallow than Sythesis due to several factors:

• Gravity; was the planet a low gravity planet?  Shep could have had a soft landing in low gravity
• Atmosphere: with little or no atmosphere there would be no burnup
  
• Suit techonology; did Shep's state of the art suit preserve and protect his body?
  
• Temperature; flash freezing Shepard's body may have allowed for it to be more easily revived.  Drowning victims who were in cold water have been revived as much as  40 minutes after drowning.
  
• Felix Baumgartner; I've seen somebody plummet from space and survive just fine.  I would guess a frozen corpse doesn't need much of a parachute (see gravity).
  
• I've also seen Russian videos of decapitated dog's heads being revived by simply running oxygenated blood through their veins.  Creepy but valid.

The planet had an atmosphere and you could see blots that were land masses or oceans.  Low gravity planets tend to be like the moon ie little to no atmosphere and basically just surrounded by the vacuum of space.

So no, once a planet has an atmosphere there is no soft landing.  You have to be going at ridiculous speeds to enter a planet's atmosphere.  Otherwise, you would bounce off the atmosphere back out into space.  The speed for earth is like 17.5 thousand miles an hour which is why most objects that come from space just burn up before every reaching the ground.

Felix Baumgartner did not jump from space.  He jumped from 127 thousand feet or 40km which puts him within the Earth's atmosphere, the stratosphere to be precise.  The earth's exosphere ie the part of the atmosphere that exists right before space is at around 100km.  Felix also was only travelling 840 miles an hour not the required 17,500 if he fell from space.  Again, any slower than that and you would richocet of the Earth and into space which was the main problem they were trying to figure out towards the end of the movie Apollo 13 as with their thrusters damaged, they had to calculate the re-entry point precisely so that Earth's gravity could naturally provide enough speed.  Otherwise, they would bounce off never to return.

So yeah that N7 armor is sweet but it doesn't come programed to figure out the re-entry velocity of some random planet in space, calculate the re-entry point so that you don't careen off into space, magically create a jet pack that speeds an unconscious Shep up enough to exceed re-entry speeds and then magically create enough drag for him to slow down and come to a soft landing. 

But you don't care because you liked the fact you got to play with Shep again.  You only care about the green wave because you don't like it.  I suppose you are going to also try and tell me the science behind biotics like warp, singularity, flare, dark channel, etc, lol.

[Dr. Megaverse]

Answering your question within the confines of the stated thought experiment: yes.

Answering your question outside the confines of the stated thought experiment: LAWL

[Reorte]

remydat wrote...

So no, once a planet has an atmosphere there is no soft landing.  You
have to be going at ridiculous speeds to enter a planet's atmosphere. 
Otherwise, you would bounce off the atmosphere back out into space.  The
speed for earth is like 17.5 thousand miles an hour which is why most
objects that come from space just burn up before every reaching the
ground.

Wrong - that speed is for being in low Earth orbit. We've no idea what speed the Normandy was going relative to the planet when it blew up, but it was probably fairly slow (otherwise the odds are that Shepard would've flown off into space, or remained in orbit - either of those would also have made a lot more sense for bringing him back). You'll still end up as a mess on the ground though.

The whole Lazarus project was ridiculous nonsense but there's ridiculous nonsense that's a bump on the overall path and ridiculous nonsense of an even bigger magnitude that's supposed to be the whole culmination of everything.

[remydat]

Reorte wrote...

Wrong - that speed is for being in low Earth orbit. We've no idea what speed the Normandy was going relative to the planet when it blew up, but it was probably fairly slow (otherwise the odds are that Shepard would've flown off into space, or remained in orbit - either of those would also have made a lot more sense for bringing him back). You'll still end up as a mess on the ground though.

The whole Lazarus project was ridiculous nonsense but there's ridiculous nonsense that's a bump on the overall path and ridiculous nonsense of an even bigger magnitude that's supposed to be the whole culmination of everything.

I am not sure your point.  Shep was outside the Normandy floating in space struggling with his air supply.  You see how close the dude is to the planet as he is suffocating.  So there is no way he looks to have enough speed to re-enter the planet's atmosphere below.  As I said, he should have ricocheted back into space if he had started free falling to the planet below.



And I don't know what is more fundaental than Shep being alive.  Without his body being recovered in pretty immaculate condition there is no ME2 or ME3.  This miracuous event is the whole basis for 2 other games even existing.

So this is really just cherry picking which impossible sh*t you accept and which you don't.

[PirateMouse]

Sc2mashimaro wrote...

That's a fair question, OP.

For me, though, it is a question of believing or not believing the Catalyst.

If I believe the Catalyst and agree with his assesment of the problem (synthetic-organic conflict), then Synthesis makes the most sense.

If I believe the Catalyst, but disagree with his assesment of the problem, Control makes the most sense.

If I do not believe the Catalyst is telling the whole truth, and, by defualt, do not agree with his assesment of the problem, then Destroy makes the most sense.

If I do not believe the Catalyst at all and, by default, disagree with his assesment of the problem AND/OR I find all of his solutions to be morally bankrupt and hold the morality of how I achieve victory above victory itself, Refuse makes the most sense.

I am generally in favor of picking destroy, but if the cost escalated enough - and I believed the Catalyst was not lying about those costs to keep me from picking Destroy - I would pick Refuse. In play-throughs where my Shepard is more inclined to believe the Catalyst, there is no reason to pick destroy, but I think a reasonable person is justified to doubt the word of the Catalyst in the moment (as long as they do not meta-game).

Sorry ... I'm basically done with this thread as stated before, but I just wanted to drop back in to say this is a fine analysis, despite the fact we reach somewhat different conclusions.  Well done.

And without metagaming, I would certainly pick Refuse in all honesty.  If I don't believe the Catalyst (and I certainly have no good reason to), then I don't believe it period.  Cherry-picking what I'd like to believe does not strike me as logically consistent (it's basically just applying confirmation bias) ... but if I were able to somehow overlook that logical inconsistency, then I could see how Destroy might seem a reasonable choice.

Modifié par PirateMouse, 14 avril 2013 - 04:10 .

[remydat]

kleindropper wrote...

I'm sorry, I tried the Synthesis ending today and it is just ridiculous. Can somebody explain to me why Joker's baseball cap is now apparently a synthetic lifeform? (his cap has green squigglys going through it.) So now long-dead wool or cotton is synthetic life? Please.

Destroy, destroy, destroy, no matter what. It may take millions of years for someone to get another chance to hook up a crucible so it needs to be fired to wipe out the reapers no matter what.

Also just to answer you question since I never bothered to actually every think about this as I think the real answer is likely because the art team thought it was cool but the baseball cap and the rocks or whatever else was green that you think shouldn't be mostly likely had micro organism on them like bacteria.  Bacteria is orgnanic and there is nothing that suggests the Green wave only targets sentient organic life as opposed to all organic life.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

remydat wrote...

 there is nothing that suggests the Green wave only targets sentient organic life as opposed to all organic life.

Which actually manages to make it worse.

[Phatose]

Not really. Non-sentient life doesn't actually care. It lives or dies, and that's it.