935 réponses à ce sujet

[remydat]

fizzypop

Look we arguing sematics here.  When I hear something that contradicts cell division then fine.  Until then it's cell division.  How genes affect cell division is all the same to me.  

I am not telling you to believe anything.  I am telling you what EDI said and the possible implications.  You can disagree with her all you want but she said what she said.  All we are doing is arguing head canon.  EDI said synthesis could lead to immortality.

[remydat]

Fade9wayz

Really dude, can we stick to the argument instead of making personal attacks about people being obtuse.  I made the statement that the Reapers are synthetic and organic.  I made the statement because they are made from both materials.  I never claimed anything about living consciousness so you are trying to impose your definition onto me when the statement I made had nothing to do with living consciousness.  So I am not missing your point.  It was simply never a point I was making.

There is nothing logical about building a machine that kills ALL synthetics.  It it was there wouldn't be so many people crying about the fact that said condition was added just to make your decision tought.  So from an in-game perspective, there is no reason for an AI or anyone to conclude it had to be this way.

I never claimed Frankenstein was synthetic.  My point was he was made from dead organic parts just like the Reapers.

And all you are doing is cherry picking.  Shep should have been mush or toast at the start of ME2.  The way his body ends up on that planet defies all laws of physics and science.  The Mass Relays are bullsh*t.  It is so impossible to try and explain that the writers made a point to basically say even the organics in the game don't understand it.  Biotics is bullsh*t.  No it really is.  You can't get warps and singularities from a human because of an implant and eezo.  So all you are saying is you just cherry pick what impossible science you believe and which you don't.  That is fine but expecting everyone to cherry pick exactly the same way you do is silly.

And oh please dude.  The writers intened Synthesis to be a good ending not people strung out on Morphin.  So you head canon is just you trying to find reasons to hate something that the game never tells us.  From a metagame perspective there is no reason for me to believe this non-sense as it is clear the writers did not intend me to believe it.  From an in-game perspective I acknowledge the risk of both but simply prefer not to choose CERTAIN death for a species instead of an UNCERTAIN future for EVERYONE.  Dead is dead.  Synthesis and Control are both potentially good or bad.

Well look if you want to call it speculation or metagaming, it doesn't matter to me.  The point is it could never happen in the game because with the RC, the Quarians would kill them before Destroy.

[robertthebard]

remydat wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

No, it doesn't.  In fact, it currently gives the government the right to kill people that violate laws.  A capital crime, such as murder or treason can carry the death penalty.  The Reapers are guilty of murder.  But Rob, the Reapers are really preserving all life.  Really, stand on the graves of a trillion dead people, and ask them if they feel preserved.  Ask Joker if his family is still alive.

I'm not even going to debate racism.  This is just another reach to say "you people are monsters".

Yes it does.  The constitution guarantees everyone the right to life and liberty.  EDI and the Geth are not guilty of the Reapers crimes.  No one cares about the Reapers.  No one chooses Synthesis or Control to save the Reapers.  They do it to save EDI and the Geth ie the people not responsible for the Reapers crimes.

If I commit a crime, you don't just get to kill someone else for my crime.  And no, organics are prejudiced against synthetics.  That is clear in the game.  The Geth were attacked when they harmed no one, harmless AI were killed when they harmed no one and EDI would be attack if the Council knew she was an unshackled AI.  She says this herself in the game.  If synthetics are considered a race or species then what am I suppose to call organics fearing/hating them for what they are?

You are not the governing body of a country either.  But if we declare war on a country, we fight that country's armies.  The people that die are never the ones that start the war, but the ones that fight it.  It's harsh, but reality.  There'd be a lot less conflict in the world if leaders that wanted to have a war had to stand toe to toe with the leader of the country they want to fight, and fight it out.  I didn't start the Harvest/war.  Nothing in any of my dialog with Reapers since ME 1 has shown me that they want to do anything but what they are currently doing.  So when the King of the Reapers says "Hey, instead of killing us, like we richly deserve, you should make us into slaves", not interested, and I'm surely not interested in forcing the entire galaxy to become Reaper Variants, and playing god with their genetic structures.  It is far easier to blow them to hell, and not have to worry about them again.  No matter what happens in the future, which I have pointed out so many times that I'm tempted to make it my new sig, at least it is on the Galaxy's own terms, instead of Shepard's terms.  Control and Synthesis are both Shepard's terms.  In one, ShepAI has the reins, and in the other, Shepard decides to turn everyone into Reaper Variants.  You know, hybrid organic/synthetics.  It is far easier to live with the consequences of killing EDI and the geth, if the geth even die.  Since the Catalyst states they'll be targeted, not killed.  If I'm going to take that as they will die, then Shepard will die too, since the Catalyst also points out that Shepard is mostly synthetic.  So, taking what it says at face value, I'm still willing to destroy them, even though it may result in my death.

[remydat]

robertthebard

EDI and the Geth are not part of the Reapers so this analogy is problematic.  Theya are not citizens of the Reaper country.  This would be like blowing up France because Germany is the Reappers.

And you are free to make you choice.  I am not sacrficing another race.  That is my choice.

[milkytoast]

Without any intervention from destroy those races would be dead anyways. I would be willing to sacrifice a good number of them including humans, but I wouldn't feel good about it. I don't feel good about EDI and the Geth but you cannot trust the logic of the reapers. They are very faulty machines that see themselves as a force of nature and above morality. Any scenario that leaves the reapers alive threatens all organic and synthetic life.

[robertthebard]

remydat wrote...

robertthebard

EDI and the Geth are not part of the Reapers so this analogy is problematic.  Theya are not citizens of the Reaper country.  This would be like blowing up France because Germany is the Reappers.

And you are free to make you choice.  I am not sacrficing another race.  That is my choice.

They are also not citizens of the Alliance or Council races either.  However, they are not being blown up, assuming the geth are, for being Reapers.  They are collateral damage to taking the Reapers out of the galaxy equation.  Of course I don't expect that you'd accept that, since you have previously accused me of genocide for being unable to achieve peace and choosing the Quarians.  I'm waiting for you to blame me for the Krogan Rebellions and the Rachni War too.

[Fade9wayz]

remydat wrote...

Fade9wayz

Really dude, can we stick to the argument instead of making personal attacks about people being obtuse.  I made the statement that the Reapers are synthetic and organic.  I made the statement because they are made from both materials.  I never claimed anything about living consciousness so you are trying to impose your definition onto me when the statement I made had nothing to do with living consciousness.  So I am not missing your point.  It was simply never a point I was making.

There is nothing logical about building a machine that kills ALL synthetics.  It it was there wouldn't be so many people crying about the fact that said condition was added just to make your decision tought.  So from an in-game perspective, there is no reason for an AI or anyone to conclude it had to be this way.

I never claimed Frankenstein was synthetic.  My point was he was made from dead organic parts just like the Reapers.

And all you are doing is cherry picking.  Shep should have been mush or toast at the start of ME2.  The way his body ends up on that planet defies all laws of physics and science.  The Mass Relays are bullsh*t.  It is so impossible to try and explain that the writers made a point to basically say even the organics in the game don't understand it.  Biotics is bullsh*t.  No it really is.  You can't get warps and singularities from a human because of an implant and eezo.  So all you are saying is you just cherry pick what impossible science you believe and which you don't.  That is fine but expecting everyone to cherry pick exactly the same way you do is silly.

And oh please dude.  The writers intened Synthesis to be a good ending not people strung out on Morphin.  So you head canon is just you trying to find reasons to hate something that the game never tells us.  From a metagame perspective there is no reason for me to believe this non-sense as it is clear the writers did not intend me to believe it.  From an in-game perspective I acknowledge the risk of both but simply prefer not to choose CERTAIN death for a species instead of an UNCERTAIN future for EVERYONE.  Dead is dead.  Synthesis and Control are both potentially good or bad.

Well look if you want to call it speculation or metagaming, it doesn't matter to me.  The point is it could never happen in the game because with the RC, the Quarians would kill them before Destroy.

What argument? We're talking in circles for nothing here, dude. You were trying to demonstrate I had a bias against Synthetics because I consider Reapers Synthetics and that would be the only reason for me to chose Destroy rather than Control or Synthesis. However, I don't f***ing care about what they are, dude. My choice is not based on this. I chose certain death for the REAPERS, instead of uncertain future for everyone. I can't help it if it's only Synthetics that suffer from it and you think it's unjust and that organics should suffer as much as Synthetics to make things right because Reapers are both synthetic and organic.

Of course it is logical to build a device that will kill synthetics if you believe the threat is synthetic and not any Synthetic, Reapers, the biggest and most advanced ones any Organic of any cycle has ever met. Something that would be able to destroy them would have good chances of affecting every other synthetics caught in the beam. Point in fact, it destroyed the relays and they weren't an intended target either. Besides, dude, as Hackett pointed out, the best engineers weren't even sure the crucible would work, or that it wouldn't wipe organic life out too in the process. They still built it. Oh and I can easily accuse you of trying to impose your view on me. Why should I care more about a future AI that don't even appear in the Destroy ending than you about the possibility that Synthesis or Control could turn ugly? Double-standards. 

So? I never said I didn't have a problem with the idea of bringing someone back to life the way they did. Shep's body should have disintegrated upon entering whatitsname planet and even if something was left, it would be too degraded, especially the brain, to recreate the exact same person. Still I had to suspend my disbelief about quite a few things if I wanted to keep on playijng. It is science fiction after all, but that doesn't mean I should accept everything and their grand-mother just because of this, Synthesis is downright silly for me and that's it. I never said YOU had to agree with me. All I have ever done so far is exposing MY points of view, I seem to recall having stressed this numerous time, and I hate repeating myself over and over.

Link me to a official statement of BW aknowledging Synthesis as the good ending. The fact that you think it is good doesn't mean the writers thought it was as well. I return to you your own argument, if it was so evident this ending is the good one, there wouldn't me so many people who think it is idiotic or might be fake. Double-standards again. 

Anyway, I'm done with this. I have explained my reasons for chosing Destroy at lentghs and widths. I have other, more entertaining things to do, like work.

[The Twilight God]

remydat wrote...

The Twilight God

The game does not show Shep understanding on his own he could just shoot this power conduit.  There is no way to prove your arriving at this conclusion is not the result of the Catalyst explaining this to you because that is the beauty of being a game player.  You can see how everything plays out and then pretend like you would have arrived at the conclusion about the Power Conduit without the Catalyst.

There is no alternate course of events provided so the issue is moot. I chose Refuse unintentionally my first time because I thought the whole situation was wonky. But Ashton Kutcher never came out. We will never know what would occur without the Kid. That isn't to say something else couldn't occur as in this example. As Destroy, Control and Synthesis are the only way forward deep deep analysis isn't necessary. Luckily, it only takes very simple analysis to recognize Destroy is the only viable choice for anyone not indoctrinated.

remydat wrote...

I see plenty to trust the Catalsyt. You don't  

Please, share with us your reasons for trusting it seeing as you have plenty apparently.

remydat wrote...

The purpose was to find a perfect solution.  The harvest is not a perfect solution. 

The purpose, one could argue, was to save all spacefaring civilizations by destroying the Reapers. That was the explicitly expressed goal though the entirety of the game. It was not to assist the Reapers with their supposed galactic social studies assignment. 

 

remydat wrote...

The harvest was not Leviathan's idea, protect life AT ALL COSTS was. So you are confusing goals and methods.

 

And the harvest did no serve that goal. The Leviathans, Shepard, all other organics and all other synthetics agreed that all life was not being protected by the Reapers' actions. So the Reapers are not adhering to the Leviathan's directives. They are doing their own thing for their own reasons.

What are these reasons?

"It is not a thing you can comprehend"

That is, until a gun is figurative pointed at their head. Now it's completely comprehensible...

 

remydat wrote...

Yes we know the Catalyst represents their collective intelligence.  Just like the Reapers are the collective intelligence of the species it harvested.  That doesn't mean they are not different.

I doubt the Reapers are the collective intelligence of any species. They may hold some memories and knowledge taken from a species, but those species are dead and gone. Those species no doubt despised the Reapers, fought them until their end and would not inflict the same horrors upon others. Do you really think the metal monsters infused with prothean, asari, human, turians or elcor would do what they do if, in fact, they actually were the people killed to make them? They are memory contrived facsimiles. Nothing more.

Modifié par The Twilight God, 17 avril 2013 - 12:48 .

[Hunter Martens]

  I know everyone was hating hard on the old ending. But after l got all the DLC, the ending was one of the Top 3 endings for a series. It was an awesome ride with a great finish, especially with the destroy ending having my Shepard survive.

[Hunter Martens]

I know I just posted but what I don't get is that why nobody talks about how great of a ride it was. Everyone freaks out because the ending were off key until the extended cut. But this was one of the greatest trilogies us as gamers has ever played. So if you had to sacrifice the Geth and EDI to preserve everything else, like Garrus, or your romance. Doesn't that make it worth it?

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Mangalores wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
...

No one is at war. Is fire at war when it burns? Is it in conflict? Or is it simply doing what it was created to do?

There is only the harvest. The Intelligence still serves its purpose. However it now sees the galaxy as an experiment.

The reapers were created to harvest.

Which is irrelevant. We destroy fire when it tries to burn us. To claim it is not a war is just argueing semantics. It doesn't make any difference if you fight a wildfire to survive or an enemy that wants to exterminate you. Since the Reapers show a level of intelligence supposedly superior to ours their excuse for the harvest is no better than that of any extremist murderer out there.

The Geth have shown the capability to change their mind, EDI has shown the capability to change their mind. That the Reaper can't shows either they are a fanatic enemy that excuses their behaviour behind a facade of doing it for an obscure greater good. Well, where in many parts of our history have we heard that line before?

See bold italic underlined in red. That is what they were created to do. Harvest. That and that alone. Starbrat created the reapers. They are its solution. It controls the reapers. There is only the harvest. What purpose do the reapers serve? Harvesting advanced organic races.

What is inside of the reapers? Is it of any value? If it were of any
value and indeed worthy of preservation why would it be on the front
lines where it could be destroyed? No. It is simply Maramlade poured
into a reaper shell mixed with nanites. The nanites respond to the
Intelligence's commands. Each of the nanites contain a program, like a
runtime networked together. That is how I see the architecture inside a
reaper. The organic material is dead. It is like the Marmalade you buy
in the grocery store.

That the reaper cannot change its mind shows that it is programmed with a singular purpose: To harvest advanced organic races.

It is also said that it was given a purpose to preserve organic
life at all costs. The Intelligence has not fulfilled its purpose. -- Leviathan.

To end the harvest there are three possibilities:

* the Intelligence must be altered to give a directive to end the harvest (Control)
* there must no longer be any advanced organic races (Synthesis)
* or they must be destroyed (Destroy)

They are machines controlled by the intelligence. I do not have any issue hitting the destroy button. I was trolling Fizzy with that post. You took the bait as well.

Do you understand now?

[remydat]

robertthebard wrote...

They are also not citizens of the Alliance or Council races either.  However, they are not being blown up, assuming the geth are, for being Reapers.  They are collateral damage to taking the Reapers out of the galaxy equation.  Of course I don't expect that you'd accept that, since you have previously accused me of genocide for being unable to achieve peace and choosing the Quarians.  I'm waiting for you to blame me for the Krogan Rebellions and the Rachni War too.

http://social.biowar...dex/16519472/19

You see on this page where you said there is genocide because synthesis destroys culture.  So who threw the word genocide around?  I will await for you to find a post where I accused you of genocide.  I honestly don't remember making such an accusation against you but you sure seemed to try and use that term in relation to people who choose synthetis as did other posters.  So forgive if I find your protestations a bit hollow when you so freely use the word youself to explain a situation when no one is killed.

They are collateral damage that is not necessary.  Am I suppose to live my life according to your morals or mine?

[remydat]

Fade9wayz

I thought I was suggesting that from the perpsective of an Advanced AI, they would see it as bias.  I was explaining their perspective.

Again, whether it is logical from an organic perspective is irrelevant.  Again, I was speaking from the perspective and an advanced AI that was born post Destroy.  That advance AI is not going to care about your excuses.  You exterminated all synthetics to defeat an enemy that was created from organics and synthetics an which threatened both.  And by you I don't mean you personally, I mean you as in orgnanics.  So perhaps that is why you are getting confused.  When I speak of you in the above, I am talking about the organics in the game, not you personally.  And I am not talking about my personal perspective.  I am talking about what I speculate this advanced AI would thinkg. 

And all I said to you that suspending your disbelief regarding Shep's body and not doing so here is cherry picking because that is what it is.  You can't admit to picking and choosing what things you choose to believe and which you refuse and then still claim it is not cherry picking.  That is the definition.  You are free to cherry pick however you want, I simply said it was cherry picking.

Look dude, this forum is littered with Destroyers who cry about Bioware trying to push synthesis on them.  If you want to pretend that is not the prevailing opinion then go ahead.  It matter very little to me.

[remydat]

The Twilight God

Leviathan confirms it's story.  It tells me I will die which is usually not a good idea if you are trying to lie.  Its dumb logic is precisely the dumb logic I would expect a machine to make.  The problem it identifies was perfectly shown in the game when organic races tried to exterminate or exterminatd 2 synthetic races and still have laws that say synthetics should not exist.  It admits its mistake once new data in the form of the crucible and Shep is provied.

The purpose I was referring to was that of the Catalyst not Shep.  We can agree Shep's pupose was to destroy the Reapers.  Then he learned the full story and that destroying the Reapers meant killing EDI and the Geth and my Shep would not allow that.

You are in no position to conclude whether it served it's call.  If we could peak into an alternative universe without the Reapers and see that a Super AI race was created and exterminated all life then one would conclude, the harvest served its purpose.

Intelligence has nothing to do with conscience or morality for that matter.  The Reapers are the collective intelligence of the races they harvested.  This is made perfectly clear when EDI in synthesis explains that the Reapers shared the knowledge and culture of those races.  Just because you don't like them doesn't change what th story says.

[VakarianWilliamsN7]

Is it really "genocide" when you deactivate AIs? I honestly don't understand this logic. I guess it depends on what your definition of "alive" is.

[AlanC9]

VakarianWilliamsN7 wrote...

Is it really "genocide" when you deactivate AIs? I honestly don't understand this logic. I guess it depends on what your definition of "alive" is.

 Maybe the Reapers' definition of "alive" doesn't include organics?

[Indy_S]

AlanC9 wrote...

 Maybe the Reapers' definition of "alive" doesn't include organics?

Maybe the Reapers' definition of "conflict" doesn't include the use of lasers to deprive sentient beings of their sentience?

[Fade9wayz]

remydat wrote...

Fade9wayz

I thought I was suggesting that from the perpsective of an Advanced AI, they would see it as bias.  I was explaining their perspective.

Again, whether it is logical from an organic perspective is irrelevant.  Again, I was speaking from the perspective and an advanced AI that was born post Destroy.  That advance AI is not going to care about your excuses.  You exterminated all synthetics to defeat an enemy that was created from organics and synthetics an which threatened both.  And by you I don't mean you personally, I mean you as in orgnanics.  So perhaps that is why you are getting confused.  When I speak of you in the above, I am talking about the organics in the game, not you personally.  And I am not talking about my personal perspective.  I am talking about what I speculate this advanced AI would thinkg. 

And all I said to you that suspending your disbelief regarding Shep's body and not doing so here is cherry picking because that is what it is.  You can't admit to picking and choosing what things you choose to believe and which you refuse and then still claim it is not cherry picking.  That is the definition.  You are free to cherry pick however you want, I simply said it was cherry picking.

Look dude, this forum is littered with Destroyers who cry about Bioware trying to push synthesis on them.  If you want to pretend that is not the prevailing opinion then go ahead.  It matter very little to me.

Oh god, of course it is relevant. They are the ones being primarily harvested, they are the ones who have to build a super-weapon to try and defend themselves. Geth are only attacked by Reapers if they oppose them (ME1? Heretics? Rings a bell?). Organics are the ones who might eventually build this new AI. How is that NOT relevant? Once again you're taking the whole decision out of its context and only motivate your reasoning with metagaming and baseless speculations. What evidence do you have that AI will think like you and not like me? Absolutely none and you know it. Your opinion is not better than mine, that's the very essence of opinions, so stop implying your interpretation is the only one valid. And even if it did think like you? So what? As I said before, it needs to man up. However, if that AI decides to attack organics prevently just because of the decision of its creator's ancestors, then something is very wrong with it anyway.

Besides, how is it different from supporting Geth on Rannoch when you don't have enough RC? If you take it out of its context, preservation of their own species, Quarians deciding to attack anyway while not being informed of the Reaper code being uploaded, then it's the exact same thing, sacrifying a species so that another can live freely. Do you see organics refusing Geth help for building the Crucible after that? Had it not been in a context of self-preservation, organics would be very entitled in thinking Geth want the destruction of all organics, but it's not the case. CONTEXT. We could speculate endlessly on why they didn't chose to leave Rannoch instead, after all, once the code was uploaded, each unit was its own person and it's not like they absolutely need Rannoch for survival. I can even go one step further, why drive Quarians away from their own planet to begin with, instead of leaving it and go hide somewhere organics can't follow them? I can go on and on about it, but frankly it doesn't serve any purpose. Speculating on what a super AI would think, based on how YOU, dude, would feel in their stead without taking context into account and with metagame is useless too and shouldn't influence your choice. Geth didn't let that stop them, why should I?

The hell? I admitted I was chosing what I could let myself believe in and what I just couldn't:
Quoting myself: "So? I never said I didn't have a problem with the idea of bringing someone back to life the way they did. Shep's body should have disintegrated upon entering whatitsname planet and even if something was left, it would be too degraded, especially the brain, to recreate the exact same person. Still I had to suspend my disbelief about quite a few things if I wanted to keep on playing. It is science fiction after all, but that doesn't mean I should accept everything and their grand-mother just because of this, Synthesis is downright silly for me and that's it."
You need me to specifically call it cherry-picking to feel happy? There then, yes it's cherry-picking, do I need to spell it too? I'm not about to eat rotten cherry if I can help it, and I can with Synthesis.

And what the flying f**k does that have to do with anything we've discussed so far, dude? I'm not talking about what other Destroyers may or may not think. They are not BW, are they? They can't provide me with an official statement, can they? Can you? This is a very weak attempt to hide the fact that you can't. I even have tried to find it myself though the burden of the proof clearly doesn't fall on me since I'm not the one making that claim, and, oh surprise! Nothing came up.

Modifié par Fade9wayz, 17 avril 2013 - 12:13 .

[Mangalores]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

...
They are machines controlled by the intelligence. I do not have any issue hitting the destroy button. I was trolling Fizzy with that post. You took the bait as well.

Do you understand now?

Use a *sarcasm* or a smiley next time then. On this forum I don't have a clue when people are joking.

[remydat]

Fade,

What synthetic race has survived the harvest? None. The Reapers just harvested organics FIRST. That doesn't mean synthetics don't eventually get destroyed. And nowhere did I claim my opinion was fact.

Are the krogan not be punished for their ancestors? How many krogann babies have been stillborn ? Why didn't the galaxy man up instead of punishing babies for what their ancestors did thousands of years ago. Why are their threads where organics argue the genophage should not be cured?  Organics and synthetics alike condemn people to die based on what their ancestors did so what i am suggesting with mr super AI has already been presented in the game.

If you don't want to think about the super AI that resulted in the Reapers harvesting for billions of years then don't. I am not forcing you to respond to me. I brought it up because it is relevant to my decision.

I simply said you cherry picking. You could have said yes I am but instead keep telling me why you are cherry picking when I never cared why. I simply made a statement of fact now that you confirmed it.

And synthesis is considered the prefered ending. I don't care whether you believe that or not. I am telling you what I believe. It being the preferred ending doesn't change the fact you are free to choose whatever ending you prefer.

Modifié par remydat, 17 avril 2013 - 03:52 .

[remydat]

VakarianWilliamsN7 wrote...

Is it really "genocide" when you deactivate AIs? I honestly don't understand this logic. I guess it depends on what your definition of "alive" is.

Does it matter what organics think or does it matter what the synthetics targeted for exterminstion think? I think the answer lies in the same graves as those billions of dead Quarians who tried to deactivate AIs and as a result were logged off from the server called life.

[VakarianWilliamsN7]

remydat wrote...

Fade9wayz


Look dude, this forum is littered with Destroyers who cry about Bioware trying to push synthesis on them.  If you want to pretend that is not the prevailing opinion then go ahead.  It matter very little to me.

I don't think Bioware is trying to push synthesis. The best possible destroy ending is the one that requires the most EMS points. Also, what makes you think synthesis is the "prevailing" opinion? Do you mean its the most popular choice?  

[robertthebard]

remydat wrote...

Fade,

What synthetic race has survived the harvest? None. The Reapers just harvested organics FIRST. That doesn't mean synthetics don't eventually get destroyed. And nowhere did I claim my opinion was fact.

Source?  Let's see something from the game that suggests that your hypothesis is indeed fact.  You are, after all, presenting this as fact, and even EMPHASISING it as such.  So let's have some documentation from the game, instead of more "well, they could build a superAI that's mad, lolz".

Are the krogan not be punished for their ancestors? How many krogann babies have been stillborn ? Why didn't the galaxy man up instead of punishing babies for what their ancestors did thousands of years ago. Why are their threads where organics argue the genophage should not be cured?  Organics and synthetics alike condemn people to die based on what their ancestors did so what i am suggesting with mr super AI has already been presented in the game.

Wow, check it out, this is exactly why I cured the Genophage.  It has nothing to do with superAI that's mad lolz, but I did cure the Genophage because I agreed with the Salarian on Sur'Kesh that nature should decide who lives or dies, not politics.  However, let's use your logic here for a minute, since you claim later that Synthesis is the preferred ending:  Ancient machines that have been harvesting space faring species for a billion years are now not going to do that because Shepard jumped into a beam?  I submit that, once the initial shock wears off, they're going to go right back to it, after all, they have done it, so they will do it again, right?  Or is it more likely that you're going to waffle to "but they are the same as they always were, but now they don't want to", or "But they are different now since their DNA was changed, even though the Krogan kept the same DNA", apparently the only species in the galaxy to do so, despite what the video says, and shows for the Synthesis ending.  I know, more head canon that should be taken as the logical course of action, right?

If you don't want to think about the super AI that resulted in the Reapers harvesting for billions of years then don't. I am not forcing you to respond to me. I brought it up because it is relevant to my decision.

...and not genetically raping the entire galaxy is relevant to mine.  I also don't feel like I have to justify it by saying "but superAI that's mad, lolz".

I simply said you cherry picking. You could have said yes I am but instead keep telling me why you are cherry picking when I never cared why. I simply made a statement of fact now that you confirmed it.

...and I simply stated that your hypothetical situation is just that, hypothetical, despite people wanting to claim that "if" suddenly transforms head canon to canon, which is the only way the argument would be valid.

And synthesis is considered the prefered ending. I don't care whether you believe that or not. I am telling you what I believe. It being the preferred ending doesn't change the fact you are free to choose whatever ending you prefer.

Source?  Or do you mean to say that you prefer it?  In which case, no proof is needed, but it's also not a point to argue "you're wrong" from either.  Your preference is your opinion, and is therefore immutable, but does not invalidate anyone else's, despite how you apparently think it does.  You see, saying "I believe it to be" is not equal to "it being".  Unless you're going to qualify that statement with "to me", you are again stating an opinion as a fact.

[robertthebard]

remydat wrote...

VakarianWilliamsN7 wrote...

Is it really "genocide" when you deactivate AIs? I honestly don't understand this logic. I guess it depends on what your definition of "alive" is.

Does it matter what organics think or does it matter what the synthetics targeted for exterminstion think? I think the answer lies in the same graves as those billions of dead Quarians who tried to deactivate AIs and as a result were logged off from the server called life.

Since Organics are the ones making the decision, through Shepard, yes, it matters what they think.  If the geth are already destroyed by the Quarians, does it matter what the geth think?  If so, what they thought was slavery was better than extinction, and signed up to work for the Reapers, and got roflstomped when the upload was stopped on Rannoch.  They made their own bed there, and have to lie in it.  When it comes to decision time at the Crucible, Shepard is the only one that knows what's going on.  For better or worse, this is what we have.  We can't call and ask "Hey, do you guys mind overly much if I genetically rape you, or become the next Catalyst instead of blowing the Reapers to hell"?  After all, if we are to accept your superAI that's mad, lolz scenario as the ultimate outcome for Destroy, then the ultimate outcome for Control is the cycles starting again, and the same is true in Synthesis, since the Reapers are still there.  This is, after all, your train of thought to say Destroy is bad, right?  A superAI that's going to wipe out organics, AKA Catalyst 2.0, for crimes against the Reapers.

[VakarianWilliamsN7]

remydat wrote...

VakarianWilliamsN7 wrote...

Is it really "genocide" when you deactivate AIs? I honestly don't understand this logic. I guess it depends on what your definition of "alive" is.

Does it matter what organics think or does it matter what the synthetics targeted for exterminstion think? I think the answer lies in the same graves as those billions of dead Quarians who tried to deactivate AIs and as a result were logged off from the server called life.

Why should anyone care what synthetics "think"? The quarians were wrong and foolish to create the geth in the first place. The geth were a mistake and I feel no guilt in correcting that mistake.