935 réponses à ce sujet

[The Twilight God]

Xilizhra wrote...

"Catalyst" is a prothean codeword for the Citadel. The Kid adopts the title on the spot to make Shepard think it's an important step in activating the Crucible. The catalyst is the Citadel. Nobody knew about any AI other than Shepard and not until the very moment he meet it. That is why it's dialog nameplate says "Kid" instead of "Catalyst".

Garrus' dialogue nameplate on Mennae says "Turian Soldier" before his face is revealed. Clearly he changed his name between games, then changed it back.
Also, the Leviathans never mention the Citadel at all.

Yeah, the Child stays "Child" the whole time so your Garrus comment  isn't an appropriate facsimile. Not that it is relevant as It literally is not and cannot be "the catalyst" as the term "the catalyst" is just a prothean code word. There was never any actually thing callled "The Catalyst" - period. No if, ands or buts.

The Citadel is a mass relay; the master mass relay at that. The mass relays were created on the orders of the Intelligence according to the Leviathans. The Reapers, who came after the Intelligence, have stated they built the Citadel. And they admitted this at a time in which they thought themselves unassailable. Ergo, no reason to lie about it. 

But I'm sure you'll just stick your fingers in your ears, shout "lalalala" and pretend like you never read this and continue on in willful ignorance spouting blatant untruths.

[Exeider]

PirateMouse wrote...

Here's a question for those who picked Destroy ...

Would you still pick Destroy if it required you to kill all quarians?

All asari?

All turians?

All humans?

All organics?

How far are you really prepared to go? How far does the end justify the means for you?

I think that is a bull$h!t loaded question to begin with. Because the framework of the decision itself precludes the possibility that it's possible to destroy the reapers without harming anyone else. I think the fact that the situation remains unrectified shows true disdain on bioware's part and shows truely that they see you as nothing more then a wallet with legs to be bilked by their corporate masters at a moments notice.

my choice is not to be forced into any choice and turn the game off and never give BW or EA anymore money.

The fact that in previous two games, there was a "Against all odds, you can have you cake and eat it too" ending that you could get if you worked hard enough.

the fact that this ending isn't in there shows that they ran out of time, out of money, were lazy, or what's more possible, the team was force fed this ending because two of them decided to cut the rest out of the creative process. in which case, it becomes intentional negligence.

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Try to follow along.  We were discussing a
Super AI being created post destroy or post synthesis.  In a post
destroy world where you exterminated all synthetics, that Super AI is
more likely to conclude you are a risk than a post synthesis world where
it sees organics and synthetics working together.

That was your comment to @Rip504 at the bottom of page 33.
THEN:

If Super AI is created in Synthesis, sure there is a risk it goes Rogue
but I don't see why it would. First in Destroy, all synthetics were
eliminated so that organics may live without the horror of their
existence. In synthesis, organics join with synthetics and work
together. So why would it conclude organics are a threat in synthesis?
Even if it did, it is a much lower risk because unlike destroy we have
not given it any evidence to make such a conclusion. Further even if it
did, we would have other synthetic races that we are working with to hep
us like the Geth and EDI.

That was something you posted against @Robertthebard talking about hypothetical future Super A.I.s., a post or so above the one you made against @Rip504.

Every post thus far, you have done nothing but claim that all cultures, organic and synthetic, will instantly work together and understand each-other.  Sorry, but you aren't worming out of this one. You are going to be giving me a diffinitive answer as to why you think that, when the etnire premise of a korgan hating a turians would mean the complete and utter opposate of what you just said.

YOU said that EDI's word was diffinitive proof, when she has nothing but first observations to look at. Mordin's had his entire life, AND has diffinitive proof in the Collectors, and the failed uplift of the krogan. Removal of limitaions on life, and hyperadvancing life well before it's potentally ready. BOTH things that happen in Synthesis. So YES, for all intents and purposes, Mordin IS talking about Synthesis. Being brainwashed does NOT MATTER in his conversation. He's NOT talking about the Collector species, he's talking about the implants and upgrades. NOT their minds. He spicifically says that tech like the synthetic implants of the Collectors destroys the socio-technological balance. And AGAIN, cultural study and the impact of forgien tech advancement was the field Mordin majored in, next to genetics.
And no, it DOESN'T. The Awakened Collectors are operating out of genetic memory. They have the memories, but they aren't the same people anymore. Not technoically, after centuries of indoctrination. They basically are running on auto-pilot. Besides, I think they were created soley for MP, and not entirely thought through on in the cannon department.
Mordin's observations BOTH apply to Synthesis, and therefore, both can be used as accurate gauges on it's effects. YOU are the one doing something Mordin would never do or approve of: instigating such a massive change WITHOUT conforming or even considering all the possible or probable side-effects.

I refer you to the bold.  I am stating a possibility not a certainty.  That is why I use terms like more likely or say there is still a risk.  Just because I don't say each and every time that something is an opinion does not mean I am stating a fact.  I am stating my opinion.  Whenever someone raises the issue, I alway reiterate it is MY OPINION.  It is a hypothetical situation I am discussing not saying it is 100% fact.

Mordin studied the Collectors.  A race that was clearly brainwashed.  Synthesis is not brainwashed people.  Nothing in the games suggest this.  A scientist does not reach conclusions based on a brainwashed species and then apply those same conclusions to a non brainwashed species.  A scientist would study the situation first and Mordin can't study it because he dies before it happens.  I again am stating my opinion she is correct and her conclusions more valid because she is a machine with vast processing power who can analyze data.  She also has the luxury of being alive when Synthesis happens and to analyze the situation directly.  Once again, Mordin is dead and can't analyze sh*t about synthesis.  His conclusions regarding the Collectors are scientifically irrelevant with respect to synthesis. 

Do you just not speak any other language besides headcannon?
"You don't see why it would" MEANS that you don't think that it would have bad effects. Yet you act like you know it's the right choice. You are the one that repeatedly said that all the races would come together - *snaps fingers*  -  just like that. And then you turn around and say "they will still hate each-other" even though that diffinitively counters the statement you just made about them understanding and accepting each-other. That's undermining your own arguement.

And AGAIN, being a brianwashed race has NOTHING to do with it. I repeat, NOTHING. The Tech is what Mordin is basing this off of, NOT THEIR MENTAL STATES.   How many times must you be told something before it sticks? Being brainwashed is NOT a factor PERIOD. The tech itself is what destroyes the socio-technological balance, NOT the mental state of the race using it. Mordin's observations is that races using synthetic implantation upgrades and technology like the Collectors to remove all limitations on life kills biodiversity by destroying the need for adaptation, which kills off evolution and advancement. And by giving such tech to people that may not be ready to use it, it could backfire spectacularly.  Mordin hated the upgrades because of the potental impact such tech would have on OTHER RACES. He WAS talking about non-indoctrinated people. Therefore, your entire premise is false.
Also, I remind you that Mordin CAN survive into Synthesis. If Eve dies because you destroyed Maelon's data, and Wreve is the krogan leader, you can persuade Mordin the krogan aren't ready for a cure. He fakes his death and joins the war effort. So YES, he can survive to see the effects.
And AGAIN, "vast processing power" did nothing with the Reaper IFF now did it? Or the Clone Shepard's takeover of the Normandy SR-2. And AGAIN, your blatent bias comes to light, as you are saying that the only reason you put more faith in EDI is because she's a synthetic. She doesn't have access to the getetics and sociatal background Mordin has. EDI hardly has any in-depth cultural experance or comprehension. Mordin DOES. She never examined the Collectors, or was on-hand with the census data on all the cultures. Mordin HAS. Mordin has more experiance then her, and more time in that spicific field, AND has access to much more spicific data on said subjects then she does. So NO, her opinion is therefore NOT more valid then Mordin.

[robertthebard]

silverexile17s wrote...

Do you just not speak any other language besides headcannon?
"You don't see why it would" MEANS that you don't think that it would have bad effects. Yet you act like you know it's the right choice. You are the one that repeatedly said that all the races would come together - *snaps fingers*  -  just like that. And then you turn around and say "they will still hate each-other" even though that diffinitively counters the statement you just made about them understanding and accepting each-other. That's undermining your own arguement.

And AGAIN, being a brianwashed race has NOTHING to do with it. I repeat, NOTHING. The Tech is what Mordin is basing this off of, NOT THEIR MENTAL STATES.   How many times must you be told something before it sticks? Being brainwashed is NOT a factor PERIOD. The tech itself is what destroyes the socio-technological balance, NOT the mental state of the race using it. Mordin's observations is that races using synthetic implantation upgrades and technology like the Collectors to remove all limitations on life kills biodiversity by destroying the need for adaptation, which kills off evolution and advancement. And by giving such tech to people that may not be ready to use it, it could backfire spectacularly.  Mordin hated the upgrades because of the potental impact such tech would have on OTHER RACES. He WAS talking about non-indoctrinated people. Therefore, your entire premise is false.
Also, I remind you that Mordin CAN survive into Synthesis. If Eve dies because you destroyed Maelon's data, and Wreve is the krogan leader, you can persuade Mordin the krogan aren't ready for a cure. He fakes his death and joins the war effort. So YES, he can survive to see the effects.
And AGAIN, "vast processing power" did nothing with the Reaper IFF now did it? Or the Clone Shepard's takeover of the Normandy SR-2. And AGAIN, your blatent bias comes to light, as you are saying that the only reason you put more faith in EDI is because she's a synthetic. She doesn't have access to the getetics and sociatal background Mordin has. EDI hardly has any in-depth cultural experance or comprehension. Mordin DOES. She never examined the Collectors, or was on-hand with the census data on all the cultures. Mordin HAS. Mordin has more experiance then her, and more time in that spicific field, AND has access to much more spicific data on said subjects then she does. So NO, her opinion is therefore NOT more valid then Mordin.

Mordin Lives

[Solmanian]

Zazzerka wrote...

It would be kind of redundant if it killed all organics.

Here's a question for those who picked Control ...

Would you still pick Control if it required you to enslave all quarians?

All asari?

All turians?

etc.

Isn't a plus? It's allready implied that you basically hover around with your huge ass fleet of reapers,going "be good, or else" to all the organics ne'er do wells that might think that just because the reaper war is over it means they can go back to their racist, oppressive, warmongering ways. I think of it kind of a buddy-cop movie starring Shepard and Harbinger.

One of them is a giant, super-inteligent warship that spends his time wiping out organic life in the galaxy.

The other one is a highly trained super-agent who devoted his life to defending organic life in the galaxy.

Framed for a crime they didn't commit, they must work together to clear their name.

[silverexile17s]

robertthebard wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Do you just not speak any other language besides headcannon?
"You don't see why it would" MEANS that you don't think that it would have bad effects. Yet you act like you know it's the right choice. You are the one that repeatedly said that all the races would come together - *snaps fingers*  -  just like that. And then you turn around and say "they will still hate each-other" even though that diffinitively counters the statement you just made about them understanding and accepting each-other. That's undermining your own arguement.

And AGAIN, being a brianwashed race has NOTHING to do with it. I repeat, NOTHING. The Tech is what Mordin is basing this off of, NOT THEIR MENTAL STATES. [/b]  How many times must you be told something before it sticks? Being brainwashed is NOT a factor PERIOD. The tech itself is what destroyes the socio-technological balance,[b] NOT the mental state of the race using it. Mordin's observations is that races using synthetic implantation upgrades and technology like the Collectors to remove all limitations on life kills biodiversity by destroying the need for adaptation, which kills off evolution and advancement. And by giving such tech to people that may not be ready to use it, it could backfire spectacularly.  Mordin hated the upgrades because of the potental impact such tech would have on OTHER RACES. He WAS talking about non-indoctrinated people. Therefore, your entire premise is false.
Also, I remind you that Mordin CAN survive into Synthesis. If Eve dies because you destroyed Maelon's data, and Wreve is the krogan leader, you can persuade Mordin the krogan aren't ready for a cure. He fakes his death and joins the war effort. So YES, he can survive to see the effects.
And AGAIN, "vast processing power" did nothing with the Reaper IFF now did it? Or the Clone Shepard's takeover of the Normandy SR-2. And AGAIN, your blatent bias comes to light, as you are saying that the only reason you put more faith in EDI is because she's a synthetic. She doesn't have access to the getetics and sociatal background Mordin has. EDI hardly has any in-depth cultural experance or comprehension. Mordin DOES. She never examined the Collectors, or was on-hand with the census data on all the cultures. Mordin HAS. Mordin has more experiance then her, and more time in that spicific field, AND has access to much more spicific data on said subjects then she does. So NO, her opinion is therefore NOT more valid then Mordin.

Mordin Lives

Thank you.

[robertthebard]

silverexile17s wrote...

robertthebard wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Do you just not speak any other language besides headcannon?
"You don't see why it would" MEANS that you don't think that it would have bad effects. Yet you act like you know it's the right choice. You are the one that repeatedly said that all the races would come together - *snaps fingers*  -  just like that. And then you turn around and say "they will still hate each-other" even though that diffinitively counters the statement you just made about them understanding and accepting each-other. That's undermining your own arguement.

And AGAIN, being a brianwashed race has NOTHING to do with it. I repeat, NOTHING. The Tech is what Mordin is basing this off of, NOT THEIR MENTAL STATES. [/b]  How many times must you be told something before it sticks? Being brainwashed is NOT a factor PERIOD. The tech itself is what destroyes the socio-technological balance,[b] NOT the mental state of the race using it. Mordin's observations is that races using synthetic implantation upgrades and technology like the Collectors to remove all limitations on life kills biodiversity by destroying the need for adaptation, which kills off evolution and advancement. And by giving such tech to people that may not be ready to use it, it could backfire spectacularly.  Mordin hated the upgrades because of the potental impact such tech would have on OTHER RACES. He WAS talking about non-indoctrinated people. Therefore, your entire premise is false.
Also, I remind you that Mordin CAN survive into Synthesis. If Eve dies because you destroyed Maelon's data, and Wreve is the krogan leader, you can persuade Mordin the krogan aren't ready for a cure. He fakes his death and joins the war effort. So YES, he can survive to see the effects.
And AGAIN, "vast processing power" did nothing with the Reaper IFF now did it? Or the Clone Shepard's takeover of the Normandy SR-2. And AGAIN, your blatent bias comes to light, as you are saying that the only reason you put more faith in EDI is because she's a synthetic. She doesn't have access to the getetics and sociatal background Mordin has. EDI hardly has any in-depth cultural experance or comprehension. Mordin DOES. She never examined the Collectors, or was on-hand with the census data on all the cultures. Mordin HAS. Mordin has more experiance then her, and more time in that spicific field, AND has access to much more spicific data on said subjects then she does. So NO, her opinion is therefore NOT more valid then Mordin.

Mordin Lives

Thank you.

I linked a different version a page or so back.  I didn't know you could do it until about 2 or 3 weeks ago.

[Fade9wayz]

Exeider wrote...

I think that is a bull$h!t loaded question to begin with. Because the framework of the decision itself precludes the possibility that it's possible to destroy the reapers without harming anyone else. I think the fact that the situation remains unrectified shows true disdain on bioware's part and shows truely that they see you as nothing more then a wallet with legs to be bilked by their corporate masters at a moments notice.

my choice is not to be forced into any choice and turn the game off and never give BW or EA anymore money.

The fact that in previous two games, there was a "Against all odds, you can have you cake and eat it too" ending that you could get if you worked hard enough.

the fact that this ending isn't in there shows that they ran out of time, out of money, were lazy, or what's more possible, the team was force fed this ending because two of them decided to cut the rest out of the creative process. in which case, it becomes intentional negligence.

Oh well, y'know, I just watched Prometheus this week-end. It's so bad all over that even the whole ME3 endings look   like masterpieces in comparison. And at least 90% of the game is very good. I think that the only part I liked in Prometheus were the landscape shots at the beginning, so about 1%.

Modifié par Fade9wayz, 23 avril 2013 - 10:41 .

[remydat]

silverexile17s wrote...

Do you just not speak any other language besides headcannon?
"You don't see why it would" MEANS that you don't think that it would have bad effects. Yet you act like you know it's the right choice. You are the one that repeatedly said that all the races would come together - *snaps fingers*  -  just like that. And then you turn around and say "they will still hate each-other" even though that diffinitively counters the statement you just made about them understanding and accepting each-other. That's undermining your own arguement.

And AGAIN, being a brianwashed race has NOTHING to do with it. I repeat, NOTHING. The Tech is what Mordin is basing this off of, NOT THEIR MENTAL STATES.   How many times must you be told something before it sticks? Being brainwashed is NOT a factor PERIOD. The tech itself is what destroyes the socio-technological balance, NOT the mental state of the race using it. Mordin's observations is that races using synthetic implantation upgrades and technology like the Collectors to remove all limitations on life kills biodiversity by destroying the need for adaptation, which kills off evolution and advancement. And by giving such tech to people that may not be ready to use it, it could backfire spectacularly.  Mordin hated the upgrades because of the potental impact such tech would have on OTHER RACES. He WAS talking about non-indoctrinated people. Therefore, your entire premise is false.
Also, I remind you that Mordin CAN survive into Synthesis. If Eve dies because you destroyed Maelon's data, and Wreve is the krogan leader, you can persuade Mordin the krogan aren't ready for a cure. He fakes his death and joins the war effort. So YES, he can survive to see the effects.
And AGAIN, "vast processing power" did nothing with the Reaper IFF now did it? Or the Clone Shepard's takeover of the Normandy SR-2. And AGAIN, your blatent bias comes to light, as you are saying that the only reason you put more faith in EDI is because she's a synthetic. She doesn't have access to the getetics and sociatal background Mordin has. EDI hardly has any in-depth cultural experance or comprehension. Mordin DOES. She never examined the Collectors, or was on-hand with the census data on all the cultures. Mordin HAS. Mordin has more experiance then her, and more time in that spicific field, AND has access to much more spicific data on said subjects then she does. So NO, her opinion is therefore NOT more valid then Mordin.

It means IN MY OPINION, I don't see why it would in that hypothetical.  I am allowed to have opinions different than yours Silver.  That does not mean I can't also say there is no GUARANTEE ie it is not 100% that a Krogan hybrid will not hate a Salarian hybrid.  Once again, these are statements discussing events that are not 100% so my opinion can be one thing but because I know it is an opinion and not fact, it does not mean I can't acknowledge the other side. You seem confused probably because you assume your opinions are 100% undeniable facts.  I don't.  Mordin made an observation based on brainwashed race who didn't ask for those advancements.  He did not make the observation with respect to synthesis when the people being synthesized are possibly fine with it, completely sentient, and in the Catalyst's opinion ready for it.  The circumstances are different.  They may in fact be ready for it which negates all of Mordin's argument because he was referring to a situation in which the species is not ready for it and obviously the Collectors were not ready for it because they were no longer in control of their minds.  They were glorified husks.

[ZeCollectorDestroya]

PirateMouse wrote...

Reorte wrote...

Controllers, if Control was stated to have a given probability of failure (things going back to how they were) how high would that probability have to be to make you choose Destroy instead? Synthesis is out of the question just for the sake of argument here.

Why don't you make your own thread for this?

Lmfao he got you good.

Pathetic thread is pathetic. 2/10

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Do you just not speak any other language besides headcannon?
"You don't see why it would" MEANS that you don't think that it would have bad effects. Yet you act like you know it's the right choice. You are the one that repeatedly said that all the races would come together - *snaps fingers*  -  just like that. And then you turn around and say "they will still hate each-other" even though that diffinitively counters the statement you just made about them understanding and accepting each-other. That's undermining your own arguement.

And AGAIN, being a brianwashed race has NOTHING to do with it. I repeat, NOTHING. The Tech is what Mordin is basing this off of, NOT THEIR MENTAL STATES. [/b]  How many times must you be told something before it sticks? Being brainwashed is NOT a factor PERIOD. The tech itself is what destroyes the socio-technological balance, NOT the mental state of the race using it. Mordin's observations is that races using synthetic implantation upgrades and technology like the Collectors to remove all limitations on life kills biodiversity by destroying the need for adaptation, which kills off evolution and advancement. And by giving such tech to people that may not be ready to use it, it could backfire spectacularly.  Mordin hated the upgrades because of the potental impact such tech would have on OTHER RACES. He WAS talking about non-indoctrinated people. Therefore, your entire premise is false.
Also, I remind you that Mordin CAN survive into Synthesis. If Eve dies because you destroyed Maelon's data, and Wreve is the krogan leader, you can persuade Mordin the krogan aren't ready for a cure. He fakes his death and joins the war effort. So YES, he can survive to see the effects.
And AGAIN, "vast processing power" did nothing with the Reaper IFF now did it? Or the Clone Shepard's takeover of the Normandy SR-2. And AGAIN, your blatent bias comes to light, as you are saying that the only reason you put more faith in EDI is because she's a synthetic. She doesn't have access to the getetics and sociatal background Mordin has. EDI hardly has any in-depth cultural experance or comprehension. Mordin DOES. She never examined the Collectors, or was on-hand with the census data on all the cultures. Mordin HAS. Mordin has more experiance then her, and more time in that spicific field, AND has access to much more spicific data on said subjects then she does. So NO, her opinion is therefore NOT more valid then Mordin.

It means IN MY OPINION, I don't see why it would in that
hypothetical.  I am allowed to have opinions different than yours
Silver.  That does not mean I can't also say there is no GUARANTEE ie
it is not 100% that a Krogan hybrid will not hate a Salarian hybrid.
 Once again, these are statements discussing events that are not 100% so
my opinion can be one thing but because I know it is an opinion and not
fact, it does not mean I can't acknowledge the other side. You seem
confused probably because you assume your opinions are 100% undeniable
facts.  I don't.  Mordin made an observation based on brainwashed race
who didn't ask for those advancements.  He did not make the observation
with respect to synthesis when the people being synthesized are possibly
fine with it, completely sentient, and in the Catalyst's opinion ready
for it.  The circumstances are different.  They may in fact be ready for
it which negates all of Mordin's argument because he was referring to a
situation in which the species is not ready for it and obviously the
Collectors were not ready for it because they were no longer in control
of their minds.  They were glorified husks.

And yet, You act like it's fact, when there is more then enough evidence to PROVE it's not. You can't call it a hypothetical when it's diffinitievly disproven by both countering evidence, and lack of supporting circumstances. It's a false theroy. AGAIN, I restate that it diffinitievly counters the
entire purpose of the "understand and accept" premise. 100% disproven
by that. The fact that you are defending the countering of your own
premise is what I'm questioning. The only one confused is yourself.
And AGAIN, NO HE WASN'T. He was judging the effects of that tech on ALL races. How ANY race would react with tech like that. He SPICIFICALLY says that NO CULTURE  or evolving life would be able to adapt to synthetic upgrades like that without destroying the basis of their own evolution. NO RACE. He was NOT talking about indoctrinated races, he was talking about being BAD for ALL COMPLETELT SENTIANT SELF-AWARE RACES. so AGAIN, your premise is out the window. The results are the SAME - implantation to the point of removing limitations on life. EDI herself says that the limits are gone. And Mordin says that exact same thing, REGARDLESS of culture, or mental state, disrupts the socio-technological balance.
And AGAIN, dead wrong, because it's NOT the Catalyst's opinion. He says that he thinks SHEPARD is ready to decide if they are ready. The Catalyst DOESN'T have an opinion on that - he's leaving it all up to Shepard.
And once again, WRONG. He said those implants, and being ready for them, are NOT the same thing. He was talking about TWO different subjects - the krogan uplift, and the Collector implants. Giving people tech they aren't ready for. And implants that destroy the basis of evolution, and thus, the basis of cultural advancement. Synthesis embodies the worst of both worlds when it comes to probable outcome.
And ONCE AGAIN, how many times must one tell you that Mordin's assessment was on the tech, NOT the minds of the Collectors, before it gets through to you that the Collectors being indoctrinated had NOTHING to do with his assessment.

The fact that I have to point all this out ad nausium is insane. This isn't rocket science. Get the headcannon out of your ears. Or else, tell me one thing that [b]diffinitvely proves that Synthesis won't be as culturally devestating as Mordin's predictions say it will.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 24 avril 2013 - 09:59 .