935 réponses à ce sujet

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

PirateMouse wrote...

Here's a question for those who picked Destroy ...

Would you still pick Destroy if it required you to kill all quarians?

All asari?

All turians?

All humans?

All organics?

How far are you really prepared to go? How far does the end justify the means for you?

I'm guessing you sided with the Geth. I'm getting this. I've read your posts.

So why do you pick control? Why do you hate Xen so much? She did not want to kill the Geth at all. She thought killing the Geth was a total waste. She wanted to control the Geth and use them to fight the reapers. Then use them for what they were originally created. Use them to benefit the Quarian people.

She shares a lot in common with TIM, doesn't she? "So The Illusive Man was right after all." What is so different between you and her from an ethical standpoint? You chose to control the Reapers. They are your slaves now.

[themikefest]

If destroying the reapers means all species are killed with Humanity left alive, I would do it with no remorse.

I would not let humanity die to save the rest of the galaxy.

[Steelcan]

Xilizhra wrote...

Then you're an imbecile.

. Cerberus disagrees.  They were quite pleased with fancy new geth they got.

[remydat]

DeinonSlayer wrote...

1. There's a difference between exerting that power once, and never again, versus wielding that power for the entire foreseeable future.

2. I don't buy it.

1. There is a difference exerting that power to exterminating life versus applying that power to everyone equally.

2.  Whether you buy it or not, there is no evidence to suggest it is any less likely than the downside to control.  In fact, it is flat out stated in the game as a possibility by the Catalyst.  So there is in game evidence to support it based on whether you choose to believe the Catalyst or not.  I mean it's not like he has been harvesting for billions of years to prevent that advanced AI for ever being created or anything, lol.

I suppose the point here though is this is a matter of perspective.  I don't like the idea of imposing my will on everyone but I like the idea less of imposing my will on a select group of people in a manner that results in their complete extermination when I have the option of impose my will on everyone equally and they all live.  To each his/her own I suppose.

[BansheeOwnage]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

PirateMouse wrote...

Here's a question for those who picked Destroy ...

Would you still pick Destroy if it required you to kill all quarians?

All asari?

All turians?

All humans?

All organics?

How far are you really prepared to go? How far does the end justify the means for you?

I'm guessing you sided with the Geth. I'm getting this. I've read your posts.

So why do you pick control? Why do you hate Xen so much? She did not want to kill the Geth at all. She thought killing the Geth was a total waste. She wanted to control the Geth and use them to fight the reapers. Then use them for what they were originally created. Use them to benefit the Quarian people.

She shares a lot in common with TIM, doesn't she? "So The Illusive Man was right after all." What is so different between you and her from an ethical standpoint? You chose to control the Reapers. They are your slaves now.

Owned.

[BansheeOwnage]

Official DJ Harbinger wrote...

All Volus, Vorcha, Batarians, Geth and Quarians, yes.

Humans, Asari and Turians? Hell no.

What's the difference?

[DecCylonus]

PirateMouse wrote...

DecCylonus wrote...

The Reapers are the Catalyst's solution to the synthetic / organic conflict "problem". By assuming control, you admit that:
1) This conflict is inevitable and that a radical solution is necessary. 
2) An armada of all powerful warships controlled by an AI is the best solution for keeping the peace.

No you don't.  By assuming control, you kick Starbrat out of power, stop the Reapers from being a threat, and do so without committing genocide against anyone.  Nowhere in any of that are you required to agree with the brat about anything.  The only thing it requires you to believe is that Starbrat is telling the truth about controlling the Reapers ... and if you believe Starbrat's lying to you, you have no more reason to believe that shooting the Crucible will activate it, and Refusal becomes your only logical choice.

Wrong. How can you choose to become something you don't agree with? You become the Catalyst and keep the Reapers as a force that can impose your will. Same solution, new AI. You choose not to commit genocide, and that's good. You are still agreeing that there will always be conflict and that the Reapers are the right tool to stop it. You are just choosing to use the tool differently.

And if we're talking Renegade Shepard, all bets are off on how the tool is used. My Renegade killed the Rachni twice, because both times they were too big a threat to the galaxy to take a risk on. He also killed the Geth on Rannoch. Who is to say he, as the new Catalyst, won't use the Reapers to kill the Krogan in the future if they become too aggressive?

Lastly, Paragon and Renegade make it very clear in the ending monologue that they are very much involved in galactic affairs. Both set themselves up to guide the galaxy in accordance with their own will. So once again your actions agree with the Catalyst, which believed it needed to control and monitor the galaxy to prevent conflict.

[Xilizhra]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

PirateMouse wrote...

Here's a question for those who picked Destroy ...

Would you still pick Destroy if it required you to kill all quarians?

All asari?

All turians?

All humans?

All organics?

How far are you really prepared to go? How far does the end justify the means for you?

I'm guessing you sided with the Geth. I'm getting this. I've read your posts.

So why do you pick control? Why do you hate Xen so much? She did not want to kill the Geth at all. She thought killing the Geth was a total waste. She wanted to control the Geth and use them to fight the reapers. Then use them for what they were originally created. Use them to benefit the Quarian people.

She shares a lot in common with TIM, doesn't she? "So The Illusive Man was right after all." What is so different between you and her from an ethical standpoint? You chose to control the Reapers. They are your slaves now.

In my case, I'm hoping for it to be a temporary arrangement; I need to assess the Reapers to see which ones will not be dangerous to the galaxy when freed, as opposed to freeing them all instantly with Synthesis.

[PirateMouse]

DecCylonus wrote...

Wrong. How can you choose to become something you don't agree with?

Wrong.  I didn't.  I chose to kick the Starbrat out of power and stop the Reapers from being a threat ... without committing genocide.  That's it.  No other motive you assign matters because you're wrong the moment you attempt it.

Modifié par PirateMouse, 12 avril 2013 - 06:25 .

[Steelcan]

PirateMouse wrote...

DecCylonus wrote...

Wrong. How can you choose to become something you don't agree with?

Wrong.  I didn't.  I chose to kick the Starbrat out of power and stop the Reapers from being a threat ... without committing genocide.  That's it.  No other motive you assign matters because you're wrong the moment you attempt it.

. I stopped them from being a threat, and freed the galaxy from their manipulation forever, at only the cost of EDI and the Reapers.  Ad no one will mourn the Reapers

[Zazzerka]

I AM SO SICK OF THE WORD "GENOCIDE"

HOLY F*CKING HELL

[remydat]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I'm guessing you sided with the Geth. I'm getting this. I've read your posts.

So why do you pick control? Why do you hate Xen so much? She did not want to kill the Geth at all. She thought killing the Geth was a total waste. She wanted to control the Geth and use them to fight the reapers. Then use them for what they were originally created. Use them to benefit the Quarian people.

She shares a lot in common with TIM, doesn't she? "So The Illusive Man was right after all." What is so different between you and her from an ethical standpoint? You chose to control the Reapers. They are your slaves now.

Xen and TIM's desires for control is because they seek power.  I don't pick Control because I want the power.  I pick it because I consider the alternative (destroy) morally worse.  If the Reapers were not a threat to me I would not seek to control them.  If the Geth or Reapers were not a threat to Xen or TIM, they would still seek to control them because it is about power for them.

Furthermore, there is nothing preventing me from allowing the Reapers to have free will.  The only caveat being if that free will results in them seeking to harm someone then it will be taken away from them or they will be killed.  Just like society gives you free will until you murder or try and murder someone and you free will and freedom is restricted via prision.  So there is nothing that forces me to keep them enslaved as the Catalyst did.  I simply have the power to punish them if they violate the rules I establish for them like any government has over its citizens.

[PirateMouse]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I'm guessing you sided with the Geth. I'm getting this. I've read your posts.

Went for peace between the geth and quarians actually.

And controlling the geth is different because the geth are different.  Last I checked, the geth weren't universally trying to wipe out all organic life (despite what Tali originally believed), nor was I presented with a choice where I could either control them or commit genocide to destroy them.

Had the geth all been seeking to wipe out all organic life, and had I been presented with a choice between controlling them or committing genocide to kill them ... then sure, I'd have chosen to control them.

You can't just rip a complex decision out of context and jam it into any other place as if it were "one size fits all."  My decision wasn't made in a vacuum.

[Steelcan]

PirateMouse wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I'm guessing you sided with the Geth. I'm getting this. I've read your posts.

Went for peace between the geth and quarians actually.

And controlling the geth is different because the geth are different.  Last I checked, the geth weren't universally trying to wipe out all organic life (despite what Tali originally believed), nor was I presented with a choice where I could either control them or commit genocide to destroy them.

.

. Well the Heretics were.  The geth under the Reapers were.

[PirateMouse]

remydat wrote...

Xen and TIM's desires for control is because they seek power.  I don't pick Control because I want the power.  I pick it because I consider the alternative (destroy) morally worse.  If the Reapers were not a threat to me I would not seek to control them.  If the Geth or Reapers were not a threat to Xen or TIM, they would still seek to control them because it is about power for them.

Also, this.  Couldn't agree more ... we have exactly the same opinion here.

[BansheeOwnage]

Steelcan wrote...

PirateMouse wrote...

DecCylonus wrote...

Wrong. How can you choose to become something you don't agree with?

Wrong.  I didn't.  I chose to kick the Starbrat out of power and stop the Reapers from being a threat ... without committing genocide.  That's it.  No other motive you assign matters because you're wrong the moment you attempt it.

. I stopped them from being a threat, and freed the galaxy from their manipulation forever, at only the cost of EDI and the Reapers.  Ad no one will mourn the Reapers

Yes. Is the loss of one person really too much to killl the reapers? Really?!

[Astartes Marine]

Steelcan wrote...
I stopped them from being a threat, and freed the galaxy from their manipulation forever, at only the cost of EDI and the Reapers.  Ad no one will mourn the Reapers

There's a certain person on this board that would mourn the Reapers and throw around words like sociopath towards those who didn't choose the sunshine and roses green beam.  I don't think I need to name names either.

Zazzerka wrote...

I AM SO SICK OF THE WORD "GENOCIDE"

HOLY F*CKING HELL

Indeed, some people take a video game WAY too seriously.  <_<

[BansheeOwnage]

Zazzerka wrote...

I AM SO SICK OF THE WORD "GENOCIDE"

HOLY F*CKING HELL

Plus infinity. This is sacrifice, learn the difference.

[remydat]

DecCylonus wrote...

Wrong. How can you choose to become something you don't agree with? You become the Catalyst and keep the Reapers as a force that can impose your will. Same solution, new AI. You choose not to commit genocide, and that's good. You are still agreeing that there will always be conflict and that the Reapers are the right tool to stop it. You are just choosing to use the tool differently.

How can you choose to become something you don't agree with?  You become a Reaper by destroying/harvesting all synthetics to prevent conflict.

This works both ways.  You are choosing to resolve conflict by exterminating a species.  In fact, at least the Reapers have the decency to preserve them in Reaper form, lol.  You aren't even harvesting, you are outright exterminating them and then chastising people for being like the Catalyst, lol.  Ok Harbinger.

[PirateMouse]

Steelcan wrote...

. Well the Heretics were.  The geth under the Reapers were.

And if all geth were heretics, and if my choice were between either committing genocide to kill them or controlling them, then yes, I'd choose to control them.

Didn't I already cover this?

Modifié par PirateMouse, 12 avril 2013 - 06:35 .

[DecCylonus]

Xilizhra wrote...

As for choosing Destroy, every single one of us signed up for this fight knowing that it could be the end for some or all of us. We all agreed to do whatever it took to use the Crucible, even though we didn't know exactly what the Crucible would do. We all had to wonder if setting that thing off would kill us, and we accepted that risk to destroy the Reapers. Everyone accepted those risks because they believed destroying the Reapers was worth it.

False. The synthetics did not sign on for extinction when they knew an alternative was available.

Wrong. There was no alternative available that the Geth knew of. Their choice was fight or die, just like everyone else. Nobody other than Shepard inside the control room knows that Control or Synthesis are options.

Obviously Shepard knows that the Geth would prefer to live, and bears some responsibility for choosing against them. As I already said, I am willing to sacrifice one or more organic races to end the Reapers. I am also not willing to accept the Catalyst's other solutions. The Geth did indicate that they were willing to fight for the other races too, and for a Reaper free galaxy.  It sucks that the lot fell on all synthetics, but that's war, and that's the ruthless calculus. "Their sacrifice will be honored in the coming empire."

[PirateMouse]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

Zazzerka wrote...

I AM SO SICK OF THE WORD "GENOCIDE"

HOLY F*CKING HELL

Plus infinity. This is sacrifice, learn the difference.

I'm sure you like to tell yourself that.  In fact, I'm sure many such atrocities have been committed with similar thinking behind them.

[robertthebard]

Astartes Marine wrote...

Steelcan wrote...
I stopped them from being a threat, and freed the galaxy from their manipulation forever, at only the cost of EDI and the Reapers.  Ad no one will mourn the Reapers

There's a certain person on this board that would mourn the Reapers and throw around words like sociopath towards those who didn't choose the sunshine and roses green beam.  I don't think I need to name names either.

Zazzerka wrote...

I AM SO SICK OF THE WORD "GENOCIDE"

HOLY F*CKING HELL

Indeed, some people take a video game WAY too seriously.  <_<

It's just another "you people are monsters" justification, since what happens is quite literally http://www.merriam-w...=0&t=1365791023

[Sentient6]

This thread makes me think about the Normandy... Why wasn't it destroyed along with the Reapers? I mean, Normandy was EDI's actual body, the sexbot was just a mobile platform... Having the Normandy destroyed would raise the stakes even higher!!