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[Knight of Dane]

TheJediSaint wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

Chiramu wrote...

Mary Kirby wrote...

All the races have approximately the same life-span. But Qunari have sanitation and medicine, and so on average tend to live the longest. Dalish do not live any longer than city elves. The only Dalish to "reclaim" any immortality was Zathrian, and he was using a blood magic curse.

Wow, how did the Qunari get sanitation and medicine? 

They've always been depicted as superior, and they don't rely as much on magic as other nations in Thedas so I would hazard a guess that they just researched it.

Not so much superior as better organized.   Their culture probably has a high precentage of professional. healers and such.  And you'll be amazing how much proper sanitation will increase average life expectantcy.

Well, they had strong gunpowder and bioweapons that turn enemies against each other in wild rage, that's pretty advanced.

[Xilizhra]

andy69156915 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

But that's clearly contradicted by several lines of dialogue in DAO, with what was said about Dalish living "long lives," and Master Ilen's father having lived back to a time before Calenhad united Ferelden. So either city elves also live that long, or I request that you reassess this statement.

You are amazing(ly idiotic). So when a Bioware person working on the series tells you differently then what you wanted to believe so much in that elf thread, you tell that Bioware person that they are wrong and that you are right. A-freaking-mazing. You're so bigheaded that your head must have its own gravitational field with planets orbiting it. Seriously, you're trying to tell a guy involved with the canon of the series that your own fan canon is more accurate.

Well, we had to tell DG that he was wrong about their being no atheism in Thedas, and he admitted it. It's a noted phenomenon that the fans sometimes know the series better than the creators. In any case, I made an edit where I assumed it was true for the sake of argument.

[BlueMagitek]

There's also the bit about the Dalish embellishing or whitewashing everything. I recall trying to tell their Storyteller that Zathrian was kind of a massive jerk and he shrugged it off.

So I'm guessing the Dalish version of the events in Origins (for a non Dalish elf) will be :

The Keeper Zathrian saved the Hero of Fereldan by sacrificing his life to destroy Witherfang, ending the curse and destroying the beasts.

[iOnlySignIn]

Xilizhra wrote...

Mary Kirby wrote...

All the races have approximately the same life-span. But Qunari have sanitation and medicine, and so on average tend to live the longest. Dalish do not live any longer than city elves. The only Dalish to "reclaim" any immortality was Zathrian, and he was using a blood magic curse.

But that's clearly contradicted by several lines of dialogue in DAO, with what was said about Dalish living "long lives," and Master Ilen's father having lived back to a time before Calenhad united Ferelden. So either city elves also live that long, or I request that you reassess this statement.

So when racists tell you their race is genetically superior, you believe them?

Good for you.

[Xilizhra]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Mary Kirby wrote...

All the races have approximately the same life-span. But Qunari have sanitation and medicine, and so on average tend to live the longest. Dalish do not live any longer than city elves. The only Dalish to "reclaim" any immortality was Zathrian, and he was using a blood magic curse.

But that's clearly contradicted by several lines of dialogue in DAO, with what was said about Dalish living "long lives," and Master Ilen's father having lived back to a time before Calenhad united Ferelden. So either city elves also live that long, or I request that you reassess this statement.

So when racists tell you their race is genetically superior, you believe them?

Good for you.

I refuse to discount the possibility of reclaiming immortality.

[BlueMagitek]

But the game straight up says that the Elves were never immortal; their bodies would not die of age, but their souls still weakened and died over time. :/

[Xilizhra]

BlueMagitek wrote...

But the game straight up says that the Elves were never immortal; their bodies would not die of age, but their souls still weakened and died over time. :/

That's not true either. Uthenera was a voluntary thing.

[BlueMagitek]

To the ancient elves who existed during the time of Arlathan, uthenera was an act of reverence. Elves
did not age. They were not immortal, but they did not suffer from
deterioration of mind or body. They suffered only from a deterioration
of the spirit.
- Codex Entry: Uthenera

Yes, that is definately a thing.

Edit: added citation

Modifié par BlueMagitek, 15 avril 2013 - 03:10 .

[Xilizhra]

BlueMagitek wrote...

To the ancient elves who existed during the time of Arlathan, uthenera was an act of reverence. Elves
did not age. They were not immortal, but they did not suffer from
deterioration of mind or body. They suffered only from a deterioration
of the spirit.
- Codex Entry: Uthenera

Yes, that is definately a thing.

Edit: added citation

Nice omission.

"It did not happen often, but the oldest of the elves were said to reach a
point where they became weary of life. Memories became too much to
bear, and rather than fade into complacency, they voluntarily stood
aside to let newer generations guide their people."
Immortality under this definition is being completely unkillable, which the elves never were. However, such spiritual weakness is apparently a rare thing.

[BlueMagitek]

I assumed that paragraph was referring to undergoing the act itself.

And regardless of how common it was, it still proved that their immortality was not absolute to begin with.

Edit: Regardless, this is not the place for that, I'm sure it will come up in the next of the endless Dalish topics.  You will have no more detracting from me.

As it stands, my list is absolute. ~_^

Modifié par BlueMagitek, 15 avril 2013 - 03:18 .

[Direwolf0294]

Are Dragon Age's werewolves immortal like they are in other settings, or do they have the same lifespan as the other races?

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Direwolf0294 wrote...

Are Dragon Age's werewolves immortal like they are in other settings, or do they have the same lifespan as the other races?

The spirit implies that it is the latter. The original werewolves are centuries dead by the time the game starts.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

andy69156915 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

But that's clearly contradicted by several lines of dialogue in DAO, with what was said about Dalish living "long lives," and Master Ilen's father having lived back to a time before Calenhad united Ferelden. So either city elves also live that long, or I request that you reassess this statement.

You are amazing(ly idiotic). So when a Bioware person working on the series tells you differently then what you wanted to believe so much in that elf thread, you tell that Bioware person that they are wrong and that you are right. A-freaking-mazing. You're so bigheaded that your head must have its own gravitational field with planets orbiting it. Seriously, you're trying to tell a guy involved with the canon of the series that your own fan canon is more accurate.

She's citing evidence that contradicts what Mary says, that's not the same as citing headcanon.

Though maybe this is reconcilable, and the Dalish were meant to be just as mortal as everyone else from the beginning. The long lives thing might just be exaggeration, confirmation bias, or the fact that being Dalish involves a whole lot of exercise. Master Ilen's father is a little less easy to explain away, though he might be exaggerating a lot, or he might be using father to mean a male ancestor of his father's. It's kind of archaic, but I think the grammar works.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 15 avril 2013 - 04:29 .

[Iakus]

Hrungr wrote...

Mary Kirby wrote...

All the races have approximately the same life-span. But Qunari have sanitation and medicine, and so on average tend to live the longest. Dalish do not live any longer than city elves. The only Dalish to "reclaim" any immortality was Zathrian, and he was using a blood magic curse.

I do recall though one Elf mentioning their race live longer than humans, but at the moment I can't remember who said it...

About 1:05.

Guess it could be wishful thinking.

As to the qunari, my thoughts have been they are technologically more advanced than the other races.

[Iakus]

BlueMagitek wrote...

I assumed that paragraph was referring to undergoing the act itself.

And regardless of how common it was, it still proved that their immortality was not absolute to begin with.

Edit: Regardless, this is not the place for that, I'm sure it will come up in the next of the endless Dalish topics.  You will have no more detracting from me.

As it stands, my list is absolute. ~_^

I guess it depends on the definition of "immortal" being used.

It sounds like the original elvhen could die, they simply didn't die of "natural causes"   Death by violence or mishap could still claim them.   And if they lived long enough, grew weary of it.  Nevertheless, this still indicates that they had no upper limit to their natural lifespan.  That's a sort of immortality.

[Dean_the_Young]

Xilizhra wrote...

Mary Kirby wrote...

All the races have approximately the same life-span. But Qunari have sanitation and medicine, and so on average tend to live the longest. Dalish do not live any longer than city elves. The only Dalish to "reclaim" any immortality was Zathrian, and he was using a blood magic curse.

But that's clearly contradicted by several lines of dialogue in DAO, with what was said about Dalish living "long lives," and Master Ilen's father having lived back to a time before Calenhad united Ferelden. So either city elves also live that long, or I request that you reassess this statement.

Why the false delimma, Xil?  There's an obvious third option: that what you were told, in a narrative with regular unreliable exposition sources, wasn't entirely honest or accurate.

If this is in fact true... then the Quickening can't be cured by isolation alone. Which, I suppose, isn't all that surprising; just removing oneself from the source of a disease won't stop the disease itself, especially if it's become transmitted through birth. Apparently a more thorough cure is necessary. Perhaps it'll come up in future games; the genophage, after all, was cured.

The genophage is also proven to exist. The quickining, not so much. Mortality may just be the natural state of being for elves, regardless of what they claim they once were. It would be far from the only origin myth to be less than true.

[Dean_the_Young]

Xilizhra wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Mary Kirby wrote...

All the races have approximately the same life-span. But Qunari have sanitation and medicine, and so on average tend to live the longest. Dalish do not live any longer than city elves. The only Dalish to "reclaim" any immortality was Zathrian, and he was using a blood magic curse.

But that's clearly contradicted by several lines of dialogue in DAO, with what was said about Dalish living "long lives," and Master Ilen's father having lived back to a time before Calenhad united Ferelden. So either city elves also live that long, or I request that you reassess this statement.

So when racists tell you their race is genetically superior, you believe them?

Good for you.

I refuse to discount the possibility of reclaiming immortality.

Sure, but you certainly are quick to discount the alternative.

Which begs the question of why do you adopt the position relying on an undemonstrated and unsupported claim made by people with a clear bias and basis for such an untruth, rather than view it with skepticism?

[Dean_the_Young]

iakus wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

I assumed that paragraph was referring to undergoing the act itself.

And regardless of how common it was, it still proved that their immortality was not absolute to begin with.

Edit: Regardless, this is not the place for that, I'm sure it will come up in the next of the endless Dalish topics.  You will have no more detracting from me.

As it stands, my list is absolute. ~_^

I guess it depends on the definition of "immortal" being used.

It sounds like the original elvhen could die, they simply didn't die of "natural causes"   Death by violence or mishap could still claim them.   And if they lived long enough, grew weary of it.  Nevertheless, this still indicates that they had no upper limit to their natural lifespan.  That's a sort of immortality.

If it's true.

But then, why would religious/cultural claims about the distant and poorly-recorded past not be? 

[Dean_the_Young]

BlueMagitek wrote...

There's also the bit about the Dalish embellishing or whitewashing everything. I recall trying to tell their Storyteller that Zathrian was kind of a massive jerk and he shrugged it off.

So I'm guessing the Dalish version of the events in Origins (for a non Dalish elf) will be :

The Keeper Zathrian saved the Hero of Fereldan by sacrificing his life to destroy Witherfang, ending the curse and destroying the beasts.

Embellishment and factual inaccuracy from oral tradition?

Say it ain't so! 

[Asdrubael Vect]

ok i know that Qunari have full race segregation by Tamassaran's with ban for any crossbreeding for hundred/thousand years...so all races in Qunari society could posibly live longer than in other countries, espesially Elf's

but what kind of sanitation and medicine they could posibly have, what can be better than Magic Healing, Blood Magic or Alchemy Potions with Liryum???

[Iakus]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

]If it's true.

But then, why would religious/cultural claims about the distant and poorly-recorded past not be? 

Granted it may not be true.  That the Dalish are wrong is not something that can be entirely discounted.

But certain things like Uthenera are oddly specific, indicating there is at least some truth to elvhen immortality.

Modifié par iakus, 15 avril 2013 - 01:15 .

[Sith Grey Warden]

Dark Korsar wrote...
but what kind of sanitation and medicine they could posibly have, what can be better than Magic Healing, Blood Magic or Alchemy Potions with Liryum???

The kind that's widely available. With the Chantry keeping mages locked in the Circle for the most part, access to magical healing is severely limited.

[Iakus]

Dark Korsar wrote...

but what kind of sanitation and medicine they could posibly have, what can be better than Magic Healing, Blood Magic or Alchemy Potions with Liryum???

the qunari call their mages Saarebas,"dangerous things"  and are controlled by the Arvaraad "One who holds back evil".  I don't think the qunari make much use of healing magic  

[Xilizhra]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Mary Kirby wrote...

All the races have approximately the same life-span. But Qunari have sanitation and medicine, and so on average tend to live the longest. Dalish do not live any longer than city elves. The only Dalish to "reclaim" any immortality was Zathrian, and he was using a blood magic curse.

But that's clearly contradicted by several lines of dialogue in DAO, with what was said about Dalish living "long lives," and Master Ilen's father having lived back to a time before Calenhad united Ferelden. So either city elves also live that long, or I request that you reassess this statement.

So when racists tell you their race is genetically superior, you believe them?

Good for you.

I refuse to discount the possibility of reclaiming immortality.

Sure, but you certainly are quick to discount the alternative.

Which begs the question of why do you adopt the position relying on an undemonstrated and unsupported claim made by people with a clear bias and basis for such an untruth, rather than view it with skepticism?

Because, for me, it makes for a more interesting story if it's true, and having it be disproven would be extremely disappointing.

[EmperorSahlertz]

There is not one scrap of evidence, that if Elves were ever immortal, that it was their natural state of being. On the contrary, we know that Blood Magic can be used to extend your life...