153 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

There is not one scrap of evidence, that if Elves were ever immortal, that it was their natural state of being. On the contrary, we know that Blood Magic can be used to extend your life...

I admit, that would make for a very interesting twist.

[LinksOcarina]

iakus wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

There is not one scrap of evidence, that if Elves were ever immortal, that it was their natural state of being. On the contrary, we know that Blood Magic can be used to extend your life...

I admit, that would make for a very interesting twist.

To be honest, I assumed it already.

Perhaps thats why there was an Exhalted March...

[Plaintiff]

LinksOcarina wrote...

iakus wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

There is not one scrap of evidence, that if Elves were ever immortal, that it was their natural state of being. On the contrary, we know that Blood Magic can be used to extend your life...

I admit, that would make for a very interesting twist.

To be honest, I assumed it already.

Perhaps thats why there was an Exhalted March...

The elves had already lost their immortality by the time of the Dales. It's possible they were working blood magic to reclaim it, but there's no proof, so the Exalted March can't be justified on that count.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 15 avril 2013 - 03:26 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Exalted March was called on the Dales simply because the Elves were threatening the HQ of the Chantry in Val Royaux. It was porbably spun like a matter of faith to the common man, but it was really just a desparate measure, to try and win a losing war. It worked out aswell.

[lil yonce]

LinksOcarina wrote...

iakus wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

There is not one scrap of evidence, that if Elves were ever immortal, that it was their natural state of being. On the contrary, we know that Blood Magic can be used to extend your life...

I admit, that would make for a very interesting twist.

To be honest, I assumed it already.

Perhaps thats why there was an Exhalted March...

And you'd need sacrfices from somewhere and maybe more magic to perform your rituals. The death of the Orlesian Empire would give you everything you need to reclaim immortaility and old, powerful magics. Isolation, blood sacrifice, a thin veil... so attacking them in force-- or doing nothing when they're attacked by darkspawn might have had some yet unveiled Dalish motives. The entire point of the Dales was to reclaim the secrets of Arlathan and who knows what was required to succeed.

Modifié par Youth4Ever, 15 avril 2013 - 03:52 .

[llandwynwyn]

Mary Kirby wrote...

All the races have approximately the same life-span. But Qunari have sanitation and medicine, and so on average tend to live the longest. Dalish do not live any longer than city elves. The only Dalish to "reclaim" any immortality was Zathrian, and he was using a blood magic curse.

That's not what they say. The dalish are really pure fail.

[LobselVith8]

Mr Mxyzptlk wrote...

Ah huh, so Mary Kirby finally reveals the source of the Elves fabled Immortality, they were never immortal, they just extended their lives through blood magic.

Well that is one mystery down, care to reveal what Flemeth really is?

Except Gaider said something entirely different about the Dalish at Thedas UK Con in Leicestershire, England, on Saturday January 14th, 2012:

David Gaider: "City elves have the same lifespans as humans. They call them shemlen because it's an ancient word...occasionally city elves will use some words that are elven without really understanding where they really come from. So it's a derogatory term, and that's all it is to them when they say shem, the short version, they call humans that even though the reasons for that word no longer exist. Dalish tend to live longer. We're not talking into Tolkienesque numbers of years here. The longer they've stayed away and their parents have stayed away from humanity, the longer they seem to live. There are exceptional individuals among them as well, Zathrian had lived for almost three hundred years. It's going to vary but for the city elves, the elves that live inside human cities, they don't have exceptional lifespans at all."

[EmperorSahlertz]

Didn't Gaider later extrapolate that the extended Dalish lifespan was more likely becase that the Dalish doesnt live in perpetual squalor that the City Elves does?

[LobselVith8]

andy69156915 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

But that's clearly contradicted by several lines of dialogue in DAO, with what was said about Dalish living "long lives," and Master Ilen's father having lived back to a time before Calenhad united Ferelden. So either city elves also live that long, or I request that you reassess this statement. 

You are amazing(ly idiotic). So when a Bioware person working on the series tells you differently then what you wanted to believe so much in that elf thread, you tell that Bioware person that they are wrong and that you are right. A-freaking-mazing. You're so bigheaded that your head must have its own gravitational field with planets orbiting it. Seriously, you're trying to tell a guy involved with the canon of the series that your own fan canon is more accurate. 

Let me get this straight: David Gaider already addressed that the Dalish live longer than the Alienage elves (which is something Xil has pointed out in my thread discussing the elves), and Gaider also said that it might be a consequence of the Dalish having minimal contact with humans because the nomadic elves seem to live longer depending on how many generations the elves have lived away from human contact. However, despite being fully aware of this, you're calling Xil an idiot for pointing out the inconsistency between what Kirby has said in this thread, and what another Bioware developer has said elsewhere in addition to the dialogue from characters in Origins? Was Xil supposed to ignore the fact that the Dalish characters in the narrative explicitly address that the People live longer than their city brethren?

When a "Bioware person" contradicts the prior narrative that was established (with multiple characters stating that the Dalish live longer as an issue of fact) as well as the statement from the head writer who made comments that stated the Dalish live longer than the Alienage elves, there's a reason some people will question the validity of the recent statement made in this thread.

I don't see any reason to denigrate Xil for pointing out that Kirby's comments are inconsistent with what Gaider and the Dalish characters in Origins have said.

Furthermore, this isn't the first time you've harassed Xil for having the audacity to voice her opinion (and daring to have an opinion that clashes with your own), but I'd appreciate it if you made it the last time because I'm really sick and tired of your behavior towards her.

[The Hierophant]

LobselVith8 post video links for all the occasions when the Dalish talk about their immortality as there needs to be direct proof for your claims, as fanboys on this board tend to twist character statements to suit their agenda.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Well, several Dalish claim that they live long lives, but the only Dalish we have encountered so far, who have lived for an unnatural amount of time is Zathrian, and he was using magic. So far all we can base Elven longevity on, is some wild claims of ancient Elves immortality, and the common embelishment of the Dalish stories. In other words: Nothing.

[LobselVith8]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

But that's clearly contradicted by several lines of dialogue in DAO, with what was said about Dalish living "long lives," and Master Ilen's father having lived back to a time before Calenhad united Ferelden. So either city elves also live that long, or I request that you reassess this statement. 

So when racists tell you their race is genetically superior, you believe them?

Does your comment have anything to do with what Xil said? Because all I see is you condemning the elves as racist because their history reads that the ancient elves were once immortal, and lost their immortality because of their contact with the humans who eventually enslaved them.

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Good for you. 

Frankly, I'm uncertain as to why you're condemning Xil here. All she's doing is pointing out that the Dalish characters in Origins address that the People live longer lives than their Alienage counterparts.

[The Hierophant]

Zatharian is the only Dalish we know of who lived well past a century as he was bound by a Blood Magic curse. If his statement wasn't altered it would be nice if David Gaider clarified his it as it seems to be unsupported in both games outside of Zatharian's case.

[LobselVith8]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Didn't Gaider later extrapolate that the extended Dalish lifespan was more likely becase that the Dalish doesnt live in perpetual squalor that the City Elves does?

That's a claim made by people who disagree with the notion of the elves being immortal. While Gaider pointed out that the Dalish live longer lives than the Alienage elves (to the point of saying no elf in the Alienage has an "exceptional lifespan" in contrast to the Dalish), he didn't really cite the reason why the Dalish lived longer lives than the elves living in human cities. Gaider left the reason behind the longevity of the Dalish ambiguous, which is why fans continue to debate the possibility of the elves once being immortal.

[Iakus]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Well, several Dalish claim that they live long lives, but the only Dalish we have encountered so far, who have lived for an unnatural amount of time is Zathrian, and he was using magic. So far all we can base Elven longevity on, is some wild claims of ancient Elves immortality, and the common embelishment of the Dalish stories. In other words: Nothing.

They claim to live longer lives.  But how much longer is the question?  I mean is it enough that staying away from being punching bags for humans enough to account for?  Or is it a truly significant increase (though not as long as Zathrien had lived)?

[LobselVith8]

The Hierophant wrote...

Zatharian is the only Dalish we know of who lived well past a century as he was bound by a Blood Magic curse. If his statement wasn't altered it would be nice if David Gaider clarified his it as it seems to be unsupported in both games outside of Zatharian's case.

The developers have said Keeper Marethari is over 100 years old, so I suppose she could be seen as an example of a Dalish elf who has lived a long life (since it was made clear that the Dalish don't live as long as the Tolkien elves), and Gaider's statement can be read here if you're curious.

iakus wrote...

They claim to live longer lives.  But how much longer is the question?  I mean is it enough that staying away from being punching bags for humans enough to account for?  Or is it a truly significant increase (though not as long as Zathrien had lived)? 

We really don't know. The Dalish live longer, but we don't honestly know why. It's possible that it could be an indication that the elves were once immortal, but even Gaider didn't give a direct answer to explain the longevity of the Dalish. He said, "The longer they've stayed away and their parents have stayed away from humanity, the longer they seem to live."

[Dave of Canada]

Oh hey, the usual suspects denying facts! Nothing new.

[The Hierophant]

If DG still stands by that response in that link, then that means there should be an official Debate Off between him and Mary Kirby.

[Iakus]

The Hierophant wrote...

If DG still stands by that response in that link, then that means there should be an official Debate Off between him and Mary Kirby.

Round One:

FIGHT!!!

[The Hierophant]

There can only be one.

[LobselVith8]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Oh hey, the usual suspects denying facts! Nothing new.

There's basically an issue because two developers are providing contradicting information, especially in the context of the longevity of the Dalish. I think we can discuss this and be civil to each other.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Nothing Gaider said suggest that Dalish generally live unusally long lives. All Gaider said was that the Dalish live longer lives than the city Elves. While what Gaider and Kirby said might sound contradicory, it might jsut eb aslight miscommunication. For instance, what Kirby might have meant is that the Dalish have simply not regained some sort of immortality or longevity by the seclusion, but simply live longer, because they don't live in squalor and suppression. Or Gaider maybe didn't mention in that now ancient quote that the reason the City Elves didn't live long lives was because they died of disease long before the could worry about old age.
Either way, none of the quotes supports unusual Elven longevity. So purely biologically speaking it appears that all races in this current age and time of Thedas, have approximately the same lifespan, or potential lifespan at least. With the Qunari being generally the longest living due to healthcare and technological superiority.

[Annihilator27]

Mary Kirby wrote...

All the races have approximately the same life-span. But Qunari have sanitation and medicine, and so on average tend to live the longest. Dalish do not live any longer than city elves. The only Dalish to "reclaim" any immortality was Zathrian, and he was using a blood magic curse.

I thought the Nug's were immortal creatures from the Golden City. They are capable of resurrection.

[Dave of Canada]

LobselVith8 wrote...

There's basically an issue because two developers are providing contradicting information, especially in the context of the longevity of the Dalish. I think we can discuss this and be civil to each other.

We've discussed this plenty of times, no need to discuss it further. As Emperor said, the quotes don't have to be contradictory. There's no evidence of the elves living longer because they distanced themselves of "quickening", there's no evidence that elves were immortal at all.

Like I've been saying all this time, the Dalish quotes from Origins are more likely lifestyle and health-related rather than an excuse to justify racism and segeregation.